LS Very Slow Reading IV
[MODERATOR'S NOTE: I'm happy to see other members have moved on to chapter 2 after our little caesura. Andreas has returned to chapter 1 in this post. I'd like to see us wrap up chapter 1 and move cleanly into chapter 2. Thanks, Keith] A long break, Let's focus again: Page 4 Bantam Press Edition, 1991 " He wanted to wake her and take her again but as he thought about this a sad feeling rose up and forbade it. The more he hesitated the more the sadness grew. He would like to know her better. He'd had a feeling all night that he had seen her before somewhere, a long time ago." Lila will not be troubled because something from within the man rose up and forebade it. This is good for Lila. She will not be troubled. Something came and approached the man. He is changing his view and the lust vanishes. Something from his subconcious touches him and he reacts. He wants to come nearer from a different angle. He is shifting from the biological to the social level. He would like to know her better. He feels that this is obviously a better way to go. This is related to " a feeling all night that he had seen her before somewhere, a long time ago." " That thought seemed to bring it all down. Now the sadness came on in full and blended with the darkness of the cabin and with the dim indigo light throught the hatch above. Up there were stars, framed by the hatch opening so that they seemed to move when the boat rocked. Part of Orion momentarily disappeared, then appeared again. Soon all the winter constellations would be back." Yes, sensations. The clear sky, the indigo light and " winter constellations " = cold and clear. He remembers something and grows really sad now. It is cold and clear - he remembers and feels sad. " Cars rolling over a bridge in the distance sounded clearly through the cold night." This adds the sensation that sounds can be better heard - recognized. This sets an frame for whatever will happen now. He feels sad, it is dark,cold and clear and somewhat sounds can be ver well heard. " They were on their way to Kingston, somewhere on the bluffs above, over the Hudson River. The boat was berthed here in this tiny creek for a night's rest on the way south." The boat is hidden (?) though he can hear very well what is happening up there on the bluffs. The cars are going to a defined and near place. The boat is going just into a certain direction. " There was not much time." Not much time for what ? " There was almost no green left in the trees along the river. Many of the turned leaves had already fallen. During these last few days, gusts of cold wind had swept down the river valley from the north, swirling the leaves up off their branches into the air in sudden spiraling flights of red and maroon and gold and brown across the water of the river into the path of the boat as it moved down the buoyed channel." Life goes and the dead remains are taken by the cold wind from the north (= death) and set in a spiraling dance, although dead they move, swirling across the water A last dance, before the leaves turn to soil - bringing up new life. . A swirl: dead, colorfull, once alive. Is there an possible allegory that every leave is a thought ? This picture is quite common in poetry and literature. Death (= the cold wind from the north) turns into cold colourfull dervishes (=swirls of leaves on the river). Death makes itself visible and hides at the same time. It appears by swirling the dead thoughts/leaves up and taking them out of their original context/branches. The branches do not have the power to keep them anymore. Once alive, now dead, cold and colorful they block (?) the boat's path on the way to a place where live is (south). They try to distract the attention of the boat man by their dead beauty. The colours are red, maroon, gold and brown - any realtion there ? " There had been hardly any other boats in the channel." He is nearly alone. " A few boats at docks along the river bank seemed abandoned and forlorn now that summer had ended and their owners had turned to other pursuits." He is the only one following a quest on this river which, in summer, has been shared by others. The boats are 'forlorn' and 'abandoned'. This does not sound as if the owners will come back. At least he thinks so. I must go now - the clock just turned midnight - and today is my birthday and I fell in a strange kind of love - and I am afraid and happy at the same time and I really wonder what will happen this year - a lot I guess - what a strange kind of communication I share with You guys and gals - It is different from what I thought but beneficial anyway. Thanx for being around, Andreas MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
LS Very Slow Reading III
Wiltrud, Rick, Miv, Jon, Keith et al, Right Rick. Lets deal with the conscious output of RMP. Let's stick to the book, Let's read some more paragraphs. " But that wasn't how it would be. When Lila's eyes opened in a hung-over daze she'd look in the features of a gray-haired man she wouldn't even remember - someone she met in a bar the previous night." Shocks!! No paradise. The wish will not be fullfilled. No smiling parents but a gray- haired man(Social quality antagonism), no bacon cooking on a stove (biological quality antagonism). Lila's eyes would not sparkle with excitement. Lila would see an old man she does not even know. And the dazed and foggy sight is dipped in a headache (no enligthenment as an antagonism to "prospect of a new day of sunlight"). Bad news. " Her nausea and headache might produce some remorse and self-contempt but not much, he thought - she'd been through this many times - and she'd slowly try to figure out how to return to the life she'd been leading before she met this one." (I am not sure if I cited this sentence 100 % right - I missed a part of the sentence when writing it down. And right now I can not get hold of the book - hopefully it is o.k.anyway) She is caught in a cycle of going through this situation over and over again and then remorse and self-contempt. She can not get out and slowly she sinks deeper and deeper into self-contempt. Nothing new, same old story. Lila is caught in a energetic trap. " Her voice murmured something like 'Look Out !' " This says the part of Lila which just wants to survive. ' Look Out ' as a message from the subconsciousness to her consciousness? The cycle described is already on a level beneath consciousness. Reminding me of RMP as he writes in ZAMM that the intellect does not see any reason to survive but the body cells do not see any reason to die either (well this is not the exact quote and I do not know where it is in ZAMM). Something in Lila is fighting. " Then she said something unintelligible and turned away, then pulled the blanket up around her head, perhaps against the cold breeze that came down throught the open hatch." See how the narrator sometimes knows and sometimes does not. He knew that she has been through this many times and he does not know why she pulled the blanket up around her head. So we have this 'perhaps'. It might be that she shields herself against the cold and it may be that she protects herself against something different. Warmth is the most essential of all biological qualities and Lilas instincts try to take care of that. But there might be something else she is withdrawing from, something unknown on another level. Something in Lila is retreating into an inner realm. " the berth of the sailboat was so narrow that this turn of her body brought her up against him again and he felt the whole length of her and then her warmth." They are on a sailboat. What do I know about sailboats ? - You can live in one if it is big enough - they are very independent in a certain way - they only need waterways and wind to move on - only elements - not depending on but using anorganic quality. On the other end they are very restricted, sailors have always to work and sometimes to fight to move along, very slowly at times. A sailors life can be very hard at times. Sailboats are not comfortable - the turn of her body brought her up against him - not even enough space to turn when you sleep. And he is feeling her warmth. " An earlier lust came back and his arm went over her so that his hand held her breast - full there but too soft, like something over-ripe that would soon go bad." He is attracted by that 'what she has left'. Her warmth and her over-ripe breasts that would soon go bad. This is not much to live on if You ask me. By beíng attracted he also endangers the warmth she is trying to hold on to. He does not know, which makes it even worse, but what he is going to do is endangering her last ressort ? This might take ages but I do not mind. Some dialogue and diffent opinions would be nice though. I am floating somewhat in mid-air (Hi there Magnus). On the other hand "Gravity kills". Thanx and take GOOD care, Andreas Wir wollen gut vorankommen. Die Betonung liegt auf dem 'Gut' und nicht auf dem 'Vorankommen'. MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
LS Very slow reading
Jonathan, Lee, Rick, Keith, David, Diana, Horse, Miv et al, Hopefully we do not split again. Like one part of the slow reading group sticking absolutely to the text (me including) and the other group binding the text into an alreay woven net suspended in an preset philosophical postion each member holds. Both ways are valuable and interesting. Some personal reasons why I like to stick to the text which correlates ( at least as I understand it) to the 'slow reading' idea. http://www.freelance-academy.org/slowread.htm 1.) I know nearly nothing about philosophy. There is just a little bit of reading Bertrand Russell, whom I admire especially for his ability to explain complicated thoughts in an comprehensible way, and of course Pirsig, although I never understood ZAMM fully, neither ' Lila '. But what I understood is GREAT stuff. When I found the MOQ on the internet I was as excited as the day ' Lila ' came out. And You guys gave me a lot of helpful insights. More than once I said: " This is fing great ." But it is extremely difficult to find an starting point from where You can head on. I can not and I do not want to read an 15 pages essay about solipsism to find out which position held is right. Often it goes like - " Well, this is an interesting question !" - But to get an deep answer You have to cut down Your socializing heavily or read about philosopy at work (which I do - being independent). I tried to move along the LS discussion in may but I am still ten or so messages behind. In my personal social context people do not see me as stupid or dumb. The MOQ is a highly valuable place but the bridge for an everyday person is IMO long and narrow. Only a few manage - and I suppose nearly all of these people base on a solid philosophical background. I do not want to water the MOQ essence but I believe we need a rethinking about the structure of this platform. For me this place is a jungle and I wonder if there shouldn't be a cozy little playground open for newcomers and relaxing for the knightly pursuers of DQ. 2.) Mr. Pirsig mentions in Lila that one must make up his own mind up on something before comparing his own views/ideas with others. This is essential. And as I said there is no place in the MOQ for unexperienced newbies to develop this ability (What I do right know is 'following' the person whose ideas I find the most interesting and comprehensible). But You probably do not want this anyway. The price is to endanger contact to the everyday people interested in philosophy.But when Dan Glover tries to structurize the essence of the MOQ or Rich Petty summarizes the content of the discussion of Chap. 1-3, not to speak of David who started the avalanche, I see that there is already an element of development which leads to more transparency and an easier understanding. 3.) We all like to talk. Otherwise we wouldn't be here. But our love must direct to tender the realm where we dwell.Not to pursue the fullfillment of personal needs. Why not starting by taking care of the sentence in the left upper corner of Mr. P's building. Tkink about the speed and IMO most of the time nearly all of the people are way to fast. Let's slow down. With the target on easy comprehension. 4.) In 'Lila' Mr. Pirsig speaks about the bastard slips, concluding that one can measure the quality of a system by asking how it deals with the bastards. Bastards are mostly young, naive, not knowing, but asking. If I dislike someone's opinion it is important to deal with it in a way I'd like other to deal with me (But it is probably not necessary to put any emphasis on this. In the discussion I could follow so far always some new insights came into being and there is not only Rich who says, " I may be wrong .") Any newcomers reading this ? - If so, what do You think ? But now back to the beef: I found a friend of mine, Wiltrud. Asking her what she thinks about this first sentence she gave me this: lila war sich nicht bewusst dass sie nicht allein war. lila wusste nicht, dass jemand wusste dass es sie gibt und dass dieser jemand gerade bei ihr war (das weiss ich aber auch nur weil ich schon die 1. seite gelesen hab ) mich irritieren die zeitlichen und örtlichen ebenen in diesem satz: wo war er wann gewesen? es kann auch heissen, lila wusste nicht dass es ihn gibt oder lila wusste zwar dass es ihn gibt aber nicht wo er war. My translation: Lila was not aware of the fact, that she was not alone. Lila did not know, somebody knew that she is existent and that this Somebody was present. (I know this because I have already read the first page) I am irritated by the temporal and local levels in this sentence: Where was he when ? It also can mean, Lila did not know that he existed Or Lila knew of his existence but not where he was. Thank You, Andreas MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
