On Sun, 2023-01-08 at 12:11 +0100, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 7, 2023 at 10:16 PM Jonas Hahnfeld wrote:
> > > > Furthermore, I'm not a fan of recommending two different ways of
> > > > creating PDFs to users (once directly via Cairo and once with ps2pdf),
> > > > unless we really,
On Sat, Jan 7, 2023 at 10:16 PM Jonas Hahnfeld wrote:
> > > Furthermore, I'm not a fan of recommending two different ways of
> > > creating PDFs to users (once directly via Cairo and once with ps2pdf),
> > > unless we really, really have to.
> >
> > We don't really, really have to, but the
Le 07/01/2023 à 22:58, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
That's only the EPS file; but for all the rest, is Cairo -> PS ->
ps2pdf -> PDF identical to Cairo -> PDF?
Hm, ok, true, there is one difference: you will not get
a PDF outline for a TOC or PDF metadata.
OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP
On Sat, Jan 7, 2023 at 11:23 PM Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> All I said in the quote is that it does not take a lot of code in
> LilyPond to support embedding EPS files into PS/EPS output in the
> Cairo backend.
>
Forgive me Jean, I thought you were talking about the Cairo/PDF backend.
In that
Le 07/01/2023 à 23:04, Luca Fascione a écrit :
On Sat, Jan 7, 2023 at 10:06 PM Jean Abou Samra
wrote:
the advantage of dropping \epsfile
and \postscript isn't big either, as their Cairo implementation is not
complicated and can largely share code with the implementation of
On Sat, Jan 7, 2023 at 10:06 PM Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> the advantage of dropping \epsfile
> and \postscript isn't big either, as their Cairo implementation is not
> complicated and can largely share code with the implementation of
> other image formats
>
Hang on. I don't think this is
On Sat, 2023-01-07 at 22:25 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> Le 07/01/2023 à 22:16, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
> > That's not really my point; if we keep markup commands that only work
> > via this very specific ps2pdf conversion, we have to guarantee that
> > users get the same visual output as
Le 07/01/2023 à 22:16, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
That's not really my point; if we keep markup commands that only work
via this very specific ps2pdf conversion, we have to guarantee that
users get the same visual output as direct PDF output. Do we want to
support this? Does Cairo guarantee this
On Sat, 2023-01-07 at 22:05 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> Le 07/01/2023 à 21:53, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
> > Furthermore, I'm not a fan of recommending two different ways of
> > creating PDFs to users (once directly via Cairo and once with ps2pdf),
> > unless we really, really have to.
>
> We
Le 07/01/2023 à 21:53, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
Furthermore, I'm not a fan of recommending two different ways of
creating PDFs to users (once directly via Cairo and once with ps2pdf),
unless we really, really have to.
We don't really, really have to, but the advantage of dropping \epsfile
and
On Fri, 2023-01-06 at 23:19 +0100, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 6, 2023 at 10:19 AM Jonas Hahnfeld wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 2023-01-04 at 12:52 +0100, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> > > Regarding versioning: the 1.x to 2.x transition was motivated by
> > > radical syntax changes that
>> What exactly is your argument for *not* going to version 3.x in
>> that case?
>
> [...] Since this doesn't break backward compatibility, I don't
> think we need a major version bump.
IMHO, a major version bump should also be used if something changes
fundamentally, regardless whether it is
On Fri, Jan 6, 2023 at 10:19 AM Jonas Hahnfeld wrote:
>
> On Wed, 2023-01-04 at 12:52 +0100, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> > Regarding versioning: the 1.x to 2.x transition was motivated by
> > radical syntax changes that necessitated converting and 'manually'
> > verifying the .ly files. Since Cairo
On Fri, Jan 6, 2023 at 4:34 PM Marnen Laibow-Koser
wrote:
[…]
> BTW, what is the current status of Mac .app builds of LilyPond? I haven’t
> seen any new builds available since the last one that I created, but maybe
> I’m looking in the wrong place.
>
I see there are builds available on the
On Fri, Jan 6, 2023 at 8:23 AM Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> Le 06/01/2023 à 10:13, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
> > On Fri, 2023-01-06 at 08:48 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> >> Jonas, is there a possibility to have access to the MacStadium
> >> node, or do you have other advice on testing this on
De : Han-Wen Nienhuys <[1]hanw...@gmail.com>
À : Jean Abou Samra <[2]j...@abou-samra.fr>
CC : Jonas Hahnfeld <[3]hah...@hahnjo.de>, lilypond-devel
<[4]lilypond-devel@gnu.org>
Date : 06/01/2023 18:53 CET
Sujet : Re: Missing items to make Cairo rea
On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 12:36 PM Jean Abou Samra wrote:
>
> Le 30/12/2022 à 13:08, Jean Abou Samra a écrit :
> > which means figuring out how to do PNGs via the default PS
> > backend and GS.
>
>
> I looked a bit at this.
>
> It's not insurmountable, *but*, alpha transparency is not going
> to
On Fri, 2023-01-06 at 14:41 +0100, Thomas Morley wrote:
> Am Fr., 6. Jan. 2023 um 14:26 Uhr schrieb Jonas Hahnfeld via
> Discussions on LilyPond development :
> >
> > On Fri, 2023-01-06 at 14:21 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> > > Le 06/01/2023 à 10:19, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
>
> > > I don't
Le 06/01/2023 à 14:41, Thomas Morley a écrit :
Imho, a good point to look at what users do with \postscript is the LSR.
Currently 20 snippets mention 'postscript'. I'm pretty sure most of
them can be modified to use \path etc.
Apart from https://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=1060
This one is nice,
Am Fr., 6. Jan. 2023 um 14:26 Uhr schrieb Jonas Hahnfeld via
Discussions on LilyPond development :
>
> On Fri, 2023-01-06 at 14:21 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> > Le 06/01/2023 à 10:19, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
> > I don't see any markup commands other than \postscript
> > and \epsfile that we
Le 06/01/2023 à 14:26, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
On Fri, 2023-01-06 at 14:21 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
Le 06/01/2023 à 10:19, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
Regardless of what has been done in prior versions, it seems to me the
cleanest solution still is to remove a number of markup commands that
On Fri, 2023-01-06 at 14:21 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> Le 06/01/2023 à 10:19, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
> > Regardless of what has been done in prior versions, it seems to me the
> > cleanest solution still is to remove a number of markup commands that
> > we cannot or do not want to support
Le 06/01/2023 à 10:13, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
On Fri, 2023-01-06 at 08:48 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
Jonas, is there a possibility to have access to the MacStadium
node, or do you have other advice on testing this on macOS?
I'd like to check it also works there before potentially starting
Le 06/01/2023 à 10:19, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
Regardless of what has been done in prior versions, it seems to me the
cleanest solution still is to remove a number of markup commands that
we cannot or do not want to support with Cairo.
I don't see any markup commands other than \postscript
On Thu, 2023-01-05 at 23:30 +0100, Jonas Hahnfeld via Discussions on
LilyPond development wrote:
> On Thu, 2023-01-05 at 13:24 +, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> > >
> > > IMO, working with a 35mb user manual isn't materially different
> > > from working with a 10mb user manual. Both take a while to
On Wed, 2023-01-04 at 12:52 +0100, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> Regarding versioning: the 1.x to 2.x transition was motivated by
> radical syntax changes that necessitated converting and 'manually'
> verifying the .ly files. Since Cairo vs. Ghostscript doesn't affect
> the semantics of .ly files, I
On Fri, 2023-01-06 at 08:48 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> Le 06/01/2023 à 03:19, Jean Abou Samra a écrit :
> > Le 04/01/2023 à 15:50, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
> > > On the other hand, librsvg is written in Rust where I have no
> > > experience how practical it actually is to integrate into our
On Thu, 2023-01-05 at 23:55 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> Le 05/01/2023 à 23:30, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
> > What I find worrying in this discussion is that proponents of having
> > Cairo sooner than later keep dismissing the size argument, in parts
> > with very strong words, without the
Le 06/01/2023 à 03:19, Jean Abou Samra a écrit :
Le 04/01/2023 à 15:50, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
On the other hand, librsvg is written in Rust where I have no
experience how practical it actually is to integrate into our binaries
on all platforms.
To my surprise, I was able to get librsvg
Le 04/01/2023 à 15:50, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
On the other hand, librsvg is written in Rust where I have no
experience how practical it actually is to integrate into our binaries
on all platforms.
To my surprise, I was able to get librsvg to build in release/binaries/ this
evening, with
Le 05/01/2023 à 23:30, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
What I find worrying in this discussion is that proponents of having
Cairo sooner than later keep dismissing the size argument, in parts
with very strong words, without the willingness to look into it (as far
as I understand; or have there been
On 1/5/2023 4:30 PM, Jonas Hahnfeld wrote:
What I find worrying in this discussion is that proponents of having
Cairo sooner than later keep dismissing the size argument
Concern granted. I do appreciate optimal PDFs.
How much effort should be expended for what level of optimization,
Cairo's
On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 2:24 PM Werner LEMBERG wrote:
>
>
> >> The only thing I would like to convince the Cairo people is to add
> >> a mode to produce PDFs with font references instead of embedding –
> >> and subsetting – fonts. My Cairo knowledge is zero; maybe this is
> >> already possible?
>
On Thu, 2023-01-05 at 13:24 +, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> >
> > IMO, working with a 35mb user manual isn't materially different
> > from working with a 10mb user manual. Both take a while to
> > download.
>
> Indeed, but the manuals as a whole, in all languages, get also
> distributed, and
[ replying on the topic of the new PDF interpreter alone because it
really bothers me that you keep making wrong claims in that regard ]
On Wed, 2023-01-04 at 15:13 +, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> > With extractpdfmark
> > ===
> >
> > PS backend:
> >
> > 4,8M
Le 05/01/2023 à 16:14, Werner LEMBERG a écrit :
This is apparently a generation thing: I still can remember using
modems that transferred 4kByte/s...
Over here
$ wget
https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/releases/v2.24.0/downloads/lilypond-2.24.0-documentation.tar.xz
[...]
>> Indeed, but the manuals as a whole, in all languages, get also
>> distributed, and there it *does* make a significant difference
>> IMHO: Right now, the PDFs in `lilypond-2.24.0-documentation.tar.xz`
>> (which has a size of 170MByte) need 144MByte in total
>> (uncompressed). Multiply the
> Le 5 janv. 2023 à 14:24, Werner LEMBERG a écrit :
>
> Indeed, but the manuals as a whole, in all languages, get also
> distributed, and there it *does* make a significant difference IMHO:
> Right now, the PDFs in `lilypond-2.24.0-documentation.tar.xz` (which
> has a size of 170MByte) need
>> The only thing I would like to convince the Cairo people is to add
>> a mode to produce PDFs with font references instead of embedding –
>> and subsetting – fonts. My Cairo knowledge is zero; maybe this is
>> already possible?
>
> This makes no sense to me as a Cairo feature. Such PDF
Le 05/01/2023 à 13:23, Karlin High a écrit :
On Thu, Jan 5, 2023, 6:07 AM Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
If we do custom post processing, we might as well postprocess the
final PDF directly to make all snippets point to a single music
font object?
I would like to hear more about what
On Thu, Jan 5, 2023, 6:07 AM Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
> If we do custom post processing, we might as well postprocess the final
> PDF directly to make all snippets point to a single music font object?
>
I would like to hear more about what that could look like. There were
numerous mentions of
On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 7:16 AM Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> The only thing I would like to convince the Cairo people is to add a
> mode to produce PDFs with font references instead of embedding – and
> subsetting – fonts. My Cairo knowledge is zero; maybe this is already
> possible?
This makes no
Le 05/01/2023 à 07:16, Werner LEMBERG a écrit :
Well, 'dropping the old PS backend' is something we should do very
carefully. Hopefully, we are first marking the old backend as
deprecated in the next major release before removing it completely in
the release after next.
Yes, but the time to
>> We could then get rid of Ghostscript completely.
Mhmm, please ignore this sentence, it doesn't make sense.
> So, to be clear, in your opinion, solving this is a requirement
> before we drop the old PS backend?
Well, 'dropping the old PS backend' is something we should do very
carefully.
Le 04/01/2023 à 23:41, David Kastrup a écrit :
Again, the size of a manual that will get copied repeatedly and
indefinitely and the size of a document that is transferred once to a
printer are different things, and the quoted reply of a Ghostscript
developer suggests that they are not willing or
Jean Abou Samra writes:
> Le 04/01/2023 à 22:42, David Kastrup a écrit :
>> There is a difference between a score that is downloaded and copied and
>> transferred thousands of times indefinitely, and a finalized print
>> journal that is sent from a publisher to a printer once.
>
>
>
> I think
Le 04/01/2023 à 22:49, Werner LEMBERG a écrit :
Well, in this case it's the Cairo people we would have to convince.
We could then get rid of Ghostscript completely.
So, to be clear, in your opinion, solving this is a requirement
before we drop the old PS backend? Waiting for a potentially
> And again, it's not like the NR PDF was unusable when it was
> ~35 MB in LilyPond 2.18.
>
> What alternative would you propose?
In the next days I will investigate how to get small PDFs with the new
PDF engine of Ghostscript, reporting problems to the maintainers.
Let's see what this will
>> Honestly, a fourfold size increase is not something that I would
>> call 'acceptable'.
>
> Upstream might need some convincing.
>
> Ghostscript's Ken Sharp in 2017:
>
> "When we have customers wanting to send us 125GB files I have to say
> that a concern over file sizes in the few megabytes
Le 04/01/2023 à 22:42, David Kastrup a écrit :
There is a difference between a score that is downloaded and copied and
transferred thousands of times indefinitely, and a finalized print
journal that is sent from a publisher to a printer once.
I think there is a misunderstanding. We are
Jean Abou Samra writes:
> Le 04/01/2023 à 22:22, Werner LEMBERG a écrit :
>> Honestly, a fourfold size increase is not something that I would call
>> 'acceptable'.
>
>
>
> It's a question of absolute values, not relative ones. A fourfold
> increase from an acceptable value to an acceptable value
Le 04/01/2023 à 22:22, Werner LEMBERG a écrit :
Honestly, a fourfold size increase is not something that I would call
'acceptable'.
It's a question of absolute values, not relative ones. A fourfold
increase from an acceptable value to an acceptable value is
acceptable.
Due to browser
On 1/4/2023 3:22 PM, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
Honestly, a fourfold size increase is not something that I would call
'acceptable'.
Upstream might need some convincing.
Ghostscript's Ken Sharp in 2017:
"When we have customers wanting to send us 125GB files I have to say
that a concern over file
>> The idea is that you compile all snippets with references to fonts
>> only but not with actual fonts. This allows Ghostscript to analyze
>> and squeeze the fonts of all included PDFs globally; as an example,
>> the NR then has only a few dozen (subsetted) fonts instead of about
>> 4500.
>
>
Le 04/01/2023 à 16:13, Werner LEMBERG a écrit :
The idea is that you compile all snippets with references to fonts
only but not with actual fonts. This allows Ghostscript to analyze
and squeeze the fonts of all included PDFs globally; as an example,
the NR then has only a few dozen (subsetted)
> With extractpdfmark
> ===
>
> PS backend:
>
> 4,8M Documentation/out-www/en/notation.pdf
FYI: Using a recent GS version with its new PDF backend, the size gets
larger than 20MByte. I guess this is a bug, and I will soon report
this to the GS people so that it gets fixed
On Wed, 2023-01-04 at 15:00 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> I was initially scared by Poppler's dependencies, but now that I look at
> its CMakeLists.txt file, it seems that most of them are optional, which
> makes it more palatable. I'm still not sure what you lose if you don't
> compile with
Le 04/01/2023 à 14:32, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
Right: as far as I understand, these are also crucial for our own
documentation build to end up with reasonably sized PDFs. Did you check
what the situation is if we used snippets compiled with Cairo?
Without extractpdfmark
Le 04/01/2023 à 14:29, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
On Wed, 2023-01-04 at 13:39 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
Le 04/01/2023 à 12:52, Han-Wen Nienhuys a écrit :
PNG images will always be clunky for embedding line art, so it can't
be the recommended solution. What makes most sense for users? Other
On Wed, 2023-01-04 at 14:00 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> Le 29/12/2022 à 01:53, Jean Abou Samra a écrit :
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have just opened issues for the missing features of
> > the Cairo backend that I am aware of.
> >
> > https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/6500
> >
On Wed, 2023-01-04 at 13:39 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> Le 04/01/2023 à 12:52, Han-Wen Nienhuys a écrit :
> > PNG images will always be clunky for embedding line art, so it can't
> > be the recommended solution. What makes most sense for users? Other
> > illustration programs also can't
Le 29/12/2022 à 01:53, Jean Abou Samra a écrit :
Hi,
I have just opened issues for the missing features of
the Cairo backend that I am aware of.
https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/6500
https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/6501
Le 04/01/2023 à 12:52, Han-Wen Nienhuys a écrit :
On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 1:53 AM Jean Abou Samra wrote:
Hi,
I have just opened issues for the missing features of
the Cairo backend that I am aware of.
https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/6500
On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 1:53 AM Jean Abou Samra wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have just opened issues for the missing features of
> the Cairo backend that I am aware of.
>
> https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/6500
> https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/6501
>
Le 02/01/2023 à 01:30, Luca Fascione a écrit :
On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 11:16 PM Jean Abou Samra
wrote:
Its image operator doesn't have
support for transparency on some pixels and not others.
So you're worried about PS with embedded pixels coming from maybe a
PNG not roundtripping
On Sun, Jan 1, 2023 at 11:16 PM Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> Its image operator doesn't have
> support for transparency on some pixels and not others.
>
So you're worried about PS with embedded pixels coming from maybe a PNG not
roundtripping correctly back to PNG when transparency is involved?
Le 01/01/2023 à 12:36, Jean Abou Samra a écrit :
Le 30/12/2022 à 13:08, Jean Abou Samra a écrit :
which means figuring out how to do PNGs via the default PS
backend and GS.
I looked a bit at this.
It's not insurmountable, *but*, alpha transparency is not going
to work. PNG images with an
Le 01/01/2023 à 23:10, Luca Fascione a écrit :
Sorry I'm confused: my imagemagick point was that it seems to
support EPS -> PNG with alpha, see for example
https://legacy.imagemagick.org/discourse-server/viewtopic.php?t=15985
(it seems that if the input EPS is CMYK, one needs to convert to
Sorry I'm confused: my imagemagick point was that it seems to support EPS
-> PNG with alpha, see for example
https://legacy.imagemagick.org/discourse-server/viewtopic.php?t=15985
(it seems that if the input EPS is CMYK, one needs to convert to RGB first,
and then alpha flows through fine, I have
Le 01/01/2023 à 19:30, Luca Fascione a écrit :
What if you use GS to do PS to PDF instead and embed that? Would Cairo
let you?
(For the PDF backend I mean)
Cf. the remark above about Poppler.
(It would work for all output formats.)
Also, how does ImageMagick implement PS to PNG
What if you use GS to do PS to PDF instead and embed that? Would Cairo let
you?
(For the PDF backend I mean)
Also, how does ImageMagick implement PS to PNG conversion? I wonder if
their approach might inspire us, or whether having an optional dependency
would be an idea to consider (if you have
Le 30/12/2022 à 13:08, Jean Abou Samra a écrit :
which means figuring out how to do PNGs via the default PS
backend and GS.
I looked a bit at this.
It's not insurmountable, *but*, alpha transparency is not going
to work. PNG images with an alpha channel will need to be
converted to plain RGB
Le 01/01/2023 à 00:40, Paolo Prete a écrit :
On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 1:39 AM Jean Abou Samra
wrote:
Le 31/12/2022 à 01:29, Paolo Prete a écrit :
> Yeah, I also thought about overlying multiple surfaces.
Nope, no dice.
> But don't exclude my tip: after all, the colors
On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 1:39 AM Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> Le 31/12/2022 à 01:29, Paolo Prete a écrit :
> > Yeah, I also thought about overlying multiple surfaces.
>
> Nope, no dice.
>
> > But don't exclude my tip: after all, the colors can give you unique
> > identifiers for the map I've
Le 31/12/2022 à 01:39, Jean Abou Samra a écrit :
I think we'd better figure out how to patch Cairo to support this.
(To clarify: I mean "write a patch to submit upstream", not "apply a
patch in the release infrastructure").
OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Le 31/12/2022 à 01:29, Paolo Prete a écrit :
Yeah, I also thought about overlying multiple surfaces.
Nope, no dice.
But don't exclude my tip: after all, the colors can give you unique
identifiers for the map I've described to you, and this makes the
mechanism safe
Well, it's pretty
Yeah, I also thought about overlying multiple surfaces.
But don't exclude my tip: after all, the colors can give you unique
identifiers for the map I've described to you, and this makes the mechanism
safe
On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 1:23 AM Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> Le 31/12/2022 à 01:13, Paolo
Le 31/12/2022 à 01:13, Paolo Prete a écrit :
I'll examine it, thanks.
Meanwhile, I don't know if it is the right case, but it comes to my
mind a hack, which I applied on some similar code:
Before the SVG bytestream is emitted by the write_func, I would set a
temporary, special and different
I'll examine it, thanks.
Meanwhile, I don't know if it is the right case, but it comes to my mind a
hack, which I applied on some similar code:
Before the SVG bytestream is emitted by the write_func, I would set a
temporary, special and different _color_ for each grob that is associated
with
Le 31/12/2022 à 00:29, Paolo Prete a écrit :
Hi Jean,
Do you have a test snippet for cairo_svg_create_for_stream() ?
I would like to make some tests and I googled a bit but could not find
anything useful for it.
Fortunately, my deleted branch for this was still around in my Git
Hi Jean,
Do you have a test snippet for cairo_svg_create_for_stream() ?
I would like to make some tests and I googled a bit but could not find
anything useful for it.
Thanks
Il ven 30 dic 2022, 18:17 Jean Abou Samra ha scritto:
> Le 30/12/2022 à 18:12, Paolo Prete a écrit :
> >
> > Hello,
Le 30/12/2022 à 18:12, Paolo Prete a écrit :
Hello,
I'm probably saying something unfeasible and a dirty mix; nevertheless
I wonder: could there be a way to use the cairo backend as a base,
along with SVG backend snippets limited to the grobs for which the
output-attributes property has
On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 1:55 PM Jonas Hahnfeld via Discussions on LilyPond
development wrote:
>
> Ok, this is SVG which we can probably agree that the backend is in a
> bad state. At some point, there was a discussion on making Cairo the
> default for producing SVGs but IIRC it faded out with
A logo will occupy a small fraction of the page. Do you really need
to have it in such high resolution that the file size becomes a
problem?
In practice, probably. (Although there are also things like
page-sized watermarks.)
Given "but" below, did you miss a "not" in this sentence?
Yes,
Le 30/12/2022 à 17:39, Lukas-Fabian Moser a écrit :
Am 30.12.22 um 17:34 schrieb Jean Abou Samra:
Le 30/12/2022 à 17:20, Lukas-Fabian Moser a écrit :
I agree with Jonas that it would be a considerable loss not to be
able to import vector graphics. I don't concur with Jean's argument
that one
Le 30/12/2022 à 17:41, David Kastrup a écrit :
So? ps2pdf exists. It's not like it isn't already part of our toolkit,
so I don't see the problem with using it for creating a vector format.
pdftocairo can create an SVG from that, for example.
Read the question again. It was about outputting
Jean Abou Samra writes:
> Le 30/12/2022 à 16:59, Karlin High a écrit :
>> What are the chances of having a conversion tool that produces
>> LilyPond markup commands for the vectors in formats such as EPS?
>> Perhaps as an eps2ly or something.
>
>
> Zero. PostScript is a full-fledged programming
Am 30.12.22 um 17:34 schrieb Jean Abou Samra:
Le 30/12/2022 à 17:20, Lukas-Fabian Moser a écrit :
I agree with Jonas that it would be a considerable loss not to be
able to import vector graphics. I don't concur with Jean's argument
that one can replace them by using markup commands: One
Le 30/12/2022 à 17:20, Lukas-Fabian Moser a écrit :
I agree with Jonas that it would be a considerable loss not to be able
to import vector graphics. I don't concur with Jean's argument that
one can replace them by using markup commands: One obvious use case
for proper vector import would be
On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 10:20 AM Lukas-Fabian Moser wrote:
> That being said: My uneducated guess would be that with Cairo etc., it
> might be more natural/easy to import vector graphics in SVG format than
> in EPS?
And apparently tools such as Inkscape offer EPS to SVG conversion.
Le 30/12/2022 à 16:59, Karlin High a écrit :
What are the chances of having a conversion tool that produces
LilyPond markup commands for the vectors in formats such as EPS?
Perhaps as an eps2ly or something.
Zero. PostScript is a full-fledged programming language. See the
size of
Ok, in that case we can properly deprecate this once we have an
alternative (see above). I still think losing the ability to include
(external) vector graphics is a loss, though.
What are the chances of having a conversion tool that produces
LilyPond markup commands for the vectors in formats
On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 6:55 AM Jonas Hahnfeld via Discussions on
LilyPond development wrote:
>
> On Fri, 2022-12-30 at 13:08 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> > As I said, I don't see obvious use cases for \epsfile where you
> > really need vector graphics. LilyPond provides markup commands
> >
On Fri, 2022-12-30 at 13:08 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> > I am not at all convinced by these workarounds just to get Cairo a
> > bit earlier and avoid walking the proper road to the clean solution
> > (ie properly deprecating what we don't want to or cannot support).
>
> \postscript can be
I am not at all convinced by these workarounds just to get Cairo a bit
earlier and avoid walking the proper road to the clean solution (ie
properly deprecating what we don't want to or cannot support).
\postscript can be deprecated on other grounds, but we cannot
really deprecate \epsfile
On Thu, 2022-12-29 at 22:55 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> Le 29/12/2022 à 12:19, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
> > (FWIW I don't think it is a good idea to add features that will only
> > work with Cairo. That sounds like a recipe for confusion to me, but I
> > haven't yet had the time to properly
Le 29/12/2022 à 12:19, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
(FWIW I don't think it is a good idea to add features that will only
work with Cairo. That sounds like a recipe for confusion to me, but I
haven't yet had the time to properly look into the merge request...)
I don't really see what the problem
On Thu, 2022-12-29 at 12:02 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
>
> Le 29/12/2022 à 11:53, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
> > On Thu, 2022-12-29 at 01:53 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have just opened issues for the missing features of
> > > the Cairo backend that I am aware of.
> >
Le 29/12/2022 à 11:53, Jonas Hahnfeld a écrit :
On Thu, 2022-12-29 at 01:53 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
Hi,
I have just opened issues for the missing features of
the Cairo backend that I am aware of.
https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/6500
On Thu, 2022-12-29 at 01:53 +0100, Jean Abou Samra wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have just opened issues for the missing features of
> the Cairo backend that I am aware of.
>
> https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/6500
> https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/issues/6501
>
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