Re: Experience with several import filters

[Marc Mouries]

abc2ly: I use it from time to time to convert Celtic tunes. It works but
converts the chords as markup and starting from scratch in lilypond happens
to be faster.

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 7:23 PM, Noeck  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > midi2ly
>
> I used it for freely licensed scores on cpdl or imslp which are not
> created in LilyPond and too ugly to use in a choir. Sometimes midi files
> are published together with the pdf or the proprietary format. The
> result was never usable directly (all voices in one staff without
> collision-avoidance/voice-association, no or bad lyrics, wrong key,
> scaled durations, i.e. a4*234/128 s4*22/128 instead of a2 - the latter
> problem might by fixed by finding an appropriate quanization).
>
> The problems ranged from ly files that are easily fixed to some cases
> where it was much faster to rewrite everything from scratch. I guess it
> depends on the application writing the midi file. I never systematically
> cared about that.
>
> Summary: Most of the time, midi2ly gave me a file from which I could
> extract single voices, fix some errors and put them into my own ly
> skeleton and it was worth having the tool.
>
> Cheers,
> Joram
>
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Re: Bass and treble in one staff

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Andrew,

> I have several places where I need bass voices continuing into a staff with a 
> treble clef, effectively needing two clefs at once.



Hope that helps!
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: Experience with several import filters

[Noeck]

Hi,

> midi2ly

I used it for freely licensed scores on cpdl or imslp which are not
created in LilyPond and too ugly to use in a choir. Sometimes midi files
are published together with the pdf or the proprietary format. The
result was never usable directly (all voices in one staff without
collision-avoidance/voice-association, no or bad lyrics, wrong key,
scaled durations, i.e. a4*234/128 s4*22/128 instead of a2 - the latter
problem might by fixed by finding an appropriate quanization).

The problems ranged from ly files that are easily fixed to some cases
where it was much faster to rewrite everything from scratch. I guess it
depends on the application writing the midi file. I never systematically
cared about that.

Summary: Most of the time, midi2ly gave me a file from which I could
extract single voices, fix some errors and put them into my own ly
skeleton and it was worth having the tool.

Cheers,
Joram

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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Urs Liska]

Am 03.01.2017 um 17:39 schrieb Alexander Kobel:
> On 2017-01-03 17:25, Urs Liska wrote:
>> Am 03.01.2017 um 17:01 schrieb Alexander Kobel:
>>> On 2017-01-03 16:27, Urs Liska wrote:
 Just for reference, attached you'll find my preliminary result with a 
 compound slur that is somewhat more "mainstream" than the original Sorabji 
 example :-)
>>> Geez! Apparently there's not just a need for irrational tuplets, but also 
>>> Bézier curves of arbitrary degrees for slurs! Some NURBS anyone? ;-)
>>> I assume you joined two slurs for that huge one due to the lack of better 
>>> options?
>> Internally that's what happens. But by now it's not necessary anymore to
>> fiddle around with this (and especially keeping the slur ends in sync).
>> Last September I wrote a function \compoundSlur [...]
>> I reattach a rendering *with* both the grid and the helper crosses and
>> lines which significantly helps with shaping such a curve. The
>> interesting point is that you can add an arbitrary number of inflection
>> points like this, and the function will automatically make sure the
>> segments are well connected, and with a straight line (i.e. the neighbor
>> control points are in exactly opposite directions).
> Without time to look in the details now: nice one. Personally, I find it 
> sometimes more convenient to adjust piecewise cubic curves than higher order.

The title of the first thread is actually misleading, as the OP was
quickly told that it's not higher order bezier curves he was actually
asking for.
This is actually what my function does: chaining regular LilyPond slurs
together.

> The only drawback is that the thickness varies for each individual slur. 
> Negligible for this example, maybe, but it's certainly not what one expects 
> for long horizontal slurs. 

Yes, this limitation was discussed quite a bit back then, and I didn't
have a chance to investigate it further (as it would probably involve
meddling with the C++ part of the code). I would also prefer having both
ends of the complete object behave like a slur and everything in the
middle as a plain line.
Indeed, flat slurs are a desideratum my compound slurs can't really
solve. There are quite some examples in the original Durand edition of
the Ravel, where it would also be interesting to compare with the Henle
rendering that suffers from compromises in this area, IMHO.

Best
Urs

> Unfortunately, AFAIK, neither PostScript nor SVG offer support for both 
> higher degree curves or B-splines...
>
>
> Cheers,
> Alexander

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Re: Experience with several import filters

[Urs Liska]

Am 03.01.2017 um 16:47 schrieb k...@aspodata.se:
> Urs:
>> thanks for the detailed feedback. Could I summarize this as "it does
>> work but not really satisfactorily. Depending on the kind of input there
>> will be substantial cleanup to be done"?
> Yes, I think so.
>
>> Do you actually use it in your work,
> I have tried to use midi2ly but found I wanted to clean up the output 
> so I made the script http://turkos.aspodata.se/git/musik/bin/tidy_midi.pl
> However I didn't like result so I started my work on 
> http://turkos.aspodata.se/git/musik/bin/miditoly.pl to see if I could 
> do any better. Part of my answer was what I started to describe in
> http://turkos.aspodata.se/git/musik/bin/midi_to_lilypond.tex
>
>> or did you just make something up upon my question?
> I don't understand what you mean by "make something up", it sounds
> negative, but I don't believe you ment it that way.

Definitely not. What I tried to express is: were you able to write your
summary because you know the problems from previous work or did you
start to investigate the topic upon my question?
But I guess that's clear by now.

> ///
>
> BTW, there is another converter in http://web.mit.edu/music21/ but I
> have some trouble installing and running it (missing lilypond).  And
> I'm getting trouble compiling lilypond itself, partly because of the
> guile-1.8 req. So I haven't hade any chanse to test it.

Thanks for that pointer. I knew of music21 but wasn't aware that it can
be considered a LilyPond converter. Should definitely have a look at
that as well.

Best
Urs

>
> Regards,
> /Karl Hammar
>
> ---
> Aspö Data
> Lilla Aspö 148
> S-742 94 Östhammar
> Sweden
> +46 173 140 57
>
>
>
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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Urs Liska]

Am 03.01.2017 um 17:10 schrieb Mark Knoop:
> Great start Urs! 

Thanks :-)

> Why do you invert the stem direction in the first beat
> from (at least my copy of) the original? Having the RH 6tuplet stems up
> would seem to allow for closer staff spacing...

That's because I didn't look at that score. I copied it from the 2010
Henle edition. Actually the trigger to do finally enter this was to see
that Henle's slurs suffer from the same shortcoming as my compound
slurs: becoming so thin at the inflection point(s).
Now looking at the original edition I think you're right, the stem
directions are more favourable in terms of space. I don't know if that's
an engraving or editorial decision at Henle.

> Lots of lilypond challenges in this piece. 

Fortunately only for LilyPond and not for the player ;-)

> Looking forward to your
> compound slurs on the penultimate page of the final movement!

I don't know if I'm going to do a lot of them.
But that would actually make a terrific project for a "free edition" ...

Best
Urs

>
> At 16:27 on 03 Jan 2017, Urs Liska wrote:
>> Just for reference, attached you'll find my preliminary result with a
>> compound slur that is somewhat more "mainstream" than the original
>> Sorabji example :-)
>>
>> Best
>> Urs
>>
>>
>> Am 03.01.2017 um 13:45 schrieb Urs Liska:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> it seems to me this should be easily doable, but I don't find the
>>> right incantation.
>>>
>>> I would like to force some space between the first group in the right
>>> hand and the following grace notes. This is necessary in order to 
>>> squeeze a slur between them, coming from the dis in the left hand.
>>>
>>> From the manual I found
>>>
>>> \override Score.NonMusicalPaperColumn.padding = #10
>>>
>>> looking like it's what I need. But used like this it introduces space
>>> between *all* notes, regardless of where it is placed. Trying to use
>>> it with \once it doesn't have any effect (using 2.19.52).
>>>
>>> Any suggestion would be welcome.
>>>
>>> Urs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Eight note properties, flag style

[kpk1]

Hello, I wonder is there a way to change (globally) properties of all single 
eight notes (flags, stems).
I don't like default settings because flags are so close to the stem and in 
some cases they overlap with other elements
while used with multiple voices.
 
Also, I am having problem with style attribute. There aren't any explanations 
in documentation on how to use it.
Layout section in documentation is not so rich in details as other sections.
 
Thank you very much for your answer!

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Re: How to control how extra horizontal space is distributed when ragged_right is false

[Bumby Hymnal]

Thank you very much.  I've spent alot of time in the first link you sent
with little luck.  But for some reason I've skipped over the overview.
That section is very well written, I must say.  It has helped
tremendously.  There are still problems I'd like to fix; but the ones based
upon note duration I think are largely past.  I'm now trying to figure out
how to reduce the extra spacing that seems to be based upon proximity to
bar lines.

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Kieren MacMillan <
kieren_macmil...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> >
> > See  ng-horizontal-spacing>.
> >
> > Hope this helps!
> > Kieren.
> 
>
> Kieren MacMillan, composer
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info
>
>
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Re: Experience with several import filters

[Jacques Menu Muzhic]

Hello folks,

I’m using musicxml2ly rather often, to convert MusicXML exported by PhotoScore 
Ultimate.

It is quite usable and does a good job, with some limitations that you have to 
live with:
- it does not handle well \repeat’s with more that 2 alternatives;
- upbeats (anacruses) are not nicely handled: you get a full mesure 
with skips to fill it;
- it sometimes « loses » some lyrics on the way;
- and for some reason, the recent versions generate \stem* commands and 
an annoying \pointAndClickOff, all of which I remove each time.

I thus recommend musicxml2ly as a useful tool for my purposes.

JM

> Le 3 janv. 2017 à 16:58, Henning Hraban Ramm  a écrit :
> 
> Am 2017-01-03 um 15:10 schrieb Urs Liska :
> 
>> thanks for the detailed feedback. Could I summarize this as "it does
>> work but not really satisfactorily. Depending on the kind of input there
>> will be substantial cleanup to be done"?
> 
> Yes, that was IMO a good analysis and might be helpful in enhancing/replacing 
> the script.
> 
> I tried midi2ly in the past, trying to convert MIDIs from other notational 
> software like Harmony Assistant.
> I would summarize it as "works theoretically, but the output makes no sense 
> at all".
> I never found MIDIs where it was _not_ easier to key the music in anew. (Ok, 
> I copied some rhythmic voices that I needed only for MIDI output, not in 
> notes.)
> 
> Greetlings, Hraban
> ---
> fiëé visuëlle
> Henning Hraban Ramm
> http://www.fiee.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: How to control how extra horizontal space is distributed when ragged_right is false

[Kieren MacMillan]

p.s. And, perhaps more importantly, 


Kieren.

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 3:25 PM, Kieren MacMillan  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> When stretched to the full page width, extra space is added, it seems, based 
>> upon the length of the notes - so the half notes get more space than the 
>> quarter notes, and the whole note gets more than all the rest.  What I'd 
>> most prefer is that the extra white space is distributed between all the 
>> notes more evenly.  Some slight preference based upon the length of the note 
>> is ok; but not nearly as much as is occurring in this example.
> 
> See 
> .
> 
> Hope this helps!
> Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
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‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: How to control how extra horizontal space is distributed when ragged_right is false

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi,

> When stretched to the full page width, extra space is added, it seems, based 
> upon the length of the notes - so the half notes get more space than the 
> quarter notes, and the whole note gets more than all the rest.  What I'd most 
> prefer is that the extra white space is distributed between all the notes 
> more evenly.  Some slight preference based upon the length of the note is ok; 
> but not nearly as much as is occurring in this example.

See 
.

Hope this helps!
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
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‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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How to control how extra horizontal space is distributed when ragged_right is false

[Bumby Hymnal]

Hello,

I've been working on typesetting hymns, and part of our style is that we
want the systems to be full width (ragged_right is false), but we also
explicitly break systems on hymn phrase boundaries.  That means that we
often have more than a typical amount of extra white space available, which
lilypond then distributes between the various objects in the system.  My
problem is that I don't like the choices that lilypond is making and can't
figure out how to control it.

I've attached to clips from Abide With Me to illustrate the problem.  These
are clips of the top half of one system; one with ragged_right false; and
one with ragged_right true.

It all looks good when ragged right is true - all the notes and lyrics have
nice even separation and are easy to read.  When stretched to the full page
width, extra space is added, it seems, based upon the length of the notes -
so the half notes get more space than the quarter notes, and the whole note
gets more than all the rest.  What I'd most prefer is that the extra white
space is distributed between all the notes more evenly.  Some slight
preference based upon the length of the note is ok; but not nearly as much
as is occurring in this example.

Here are the layout overrides I'm currently using:

\layout {
  #(layout-set-staff-size 18)
  \context {
\Lyrics
\override LyricSpace.minimum-distance = #3
\override LyricText.font-size = #0
\override LyricText.self-alignment-X = #CENTER
\override LyricHyphen.thickness = #1
\override LyricHyphen.length = #1.0
\override VerticalAxisGroup.nonstaff-nonstaff-spacing =
#'((basic-distance . 0)
   (minimum-distance . 0)
   (padding . 0.85)
   (stretchability . 0))

  }
  \context {
\Staff
\override StaffSymbol.thickness = #1
\override NoteHead.font-size = #1
#(if MajorKey #{ \aikenHeads #} #{ \aikenHeadsMinor #})
  }
  \context {
\Score
\remove "Bar_number_engraver"
  }
}

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can give me.

Jim
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Re: what's the centred-text-spanner state of the art?

[David Nalesnik]

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:30 AM, David Nalesnik
 wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Kieren MacMillan
>  wrote:
>> Hi David,
>>
>> The text-spanner-inner-texts.ly seemed too “heavy” for what I need… but it 
>> *does* work perfectly, and I’ll likely use many (or even all?!) of its 
>> superpowers at some point in my score.
>
> Yes, it's a lot of code.  Part of the reason that it's so long,
> however, it that it is built on a rewrite of ly:line-spanner::print in
> Scheme.  So all of the default functionality is there: you can use
> ordinary text spanners with no loss of functionality.  (Though I may
> need to add in arrows, IIRC.)  It's conceived as an enhancement which
> could replace the default print function, because any addition of
> multi-text spanners to the code base should handle them without the
> need for competing stencil functions.
>


Well, after taking a look at it,  I see it does use a "competing
stencil function," but the goal is complete integration.

David

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Re: what's the centred-text-spanner state of the art?

[David Nalesnik]

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Kieren MacMillan
 wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> The text-spanner-inner-texts.ly seemed too “heavy” for what I need… but it 
> *does* work perfectly, and I’ll likely use many (or even all?!) of its 
> superpowers at some point in my score.

Yes, it's a lot of code.  Part of the reason that it's so long,
however, it that it is built on a rewrite of ly:line-spanner::print in
Scheme.  So all of the default functionality is there: you can use
ordinary text spanners with no loss of functionality.  (Though I may
need to add in arrows, IIRC.)  It's conceived as an enhancement which
could replace the default print function, because any addition of
multi-text spanners to the code base should handle them without the
need for competing stencil functions.

David

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Re: what's the centred-text-spanner state of the art?

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi David,

The text-spanner-inner-texts.ly seemed too “heavy” for what I need… but it 
*does* work perfectly, and I’ll likely use many (or even all?!) of its 
superpowers at some point in my score.

For the sake of future archive searchers, I’ve included a snippet that works 
for me (assuming the \include file is correctly installed).

Thanks!
Kieren.

%%%  SNIPPET BEGINS
\version "2.19.25"
\include "tweaks/text-spanner-inner-texts.ly"

\paper { line-width = 4\in ragged-right = ##f }

spanTextBase = {
\once \override TextSpanner.style = #'dashed-line
\once \override TextSpanner.dash-period = #2
\once \override TextSpanner.dash-fraction = #1/4
\once \override TextSpanner.bound-details.left.padding = #-1
\once \override TextSpanner.bound-details.right.padding = #-1
}

fermSpan = {
  \spanTextBase
  \textSpannerInnerTexts
\lyricmode {
\markup \draw-line #'(0 . -0.75) --
\markup \halign #-1 \general-align #Y #0 \pad-around #0.5 
\musicglyph #"scripts.ufermata" --
\markup \draw-line #'(0 . -0.75)
}
}

bpSpan = {
  \spanTextBase
  \textSpannerInnerTexts
\lyricmode {
\markup \draw-line #'(0 . -0.75) --
\markup \halign #-1 \general-align #Y #0.1 \pad-around #0.5 "b/p" --
\markup \draw-line #'(0 . -0.75)
}
}

test = {
\fermSpan e''4\startTextSpan 4 r4 e''4\stopTextSpan
\bpSpan e''4\startTextSpan 4 r4 e''4\stopTextSpan
}

\score { \test }
%%%  SNIPPET ENDS



Kieren MacMillan, composer
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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Alexander Kobel]

On 2017-01-03 17:25, Urs Liska wrote:
> Am 03.01.2017 um 17:01 schrieb Alexander Kobel:
>> On 2017-01-03 16:27, Urs Liska wrote:
>>> Just for reference, attached you'll find my preliminary result with a 
>>> compound slur that is somewhat more "mainstream" than the original Sorabji 
>>> example :-)
>> Geez! Apparently there's not just a need for irrational tuplets, but also 
>> Bézier curves of arbitrary degrees for slurs! Some NURBS anyone? ;-)
>> I assume you joined two slurs for that huge one due to the lack of better 
>> options?
> 
> Internally that's what happens. But by now it's not necessary anymore to
> fiddle around with this (and especially keeping the slur ends in sync).
> Last September I wrote a function \compoundSlur [...]
> I reattach a rendering *with* both the grid and the helper crosses and
> lines which significantly helps with shaping such a curve. The
> interesting point is that you can add an arbitrary number of inflection
> points like this, and the function will automatically make sure the
> segments are well connected, and with a straight line (i.e. the neighbor
> control points are in exactly opposite directions).

Without time to look in the details now: nice one. Personally, I find it 
sometimes more convenient to adjust piecewise cubic curves than higher order.
The only drawback is that the thickness varies for each individual slur. 
Negligible for this example, maybe, but it's certainly not what one expects for 
long horizontal slurs. Unfortunately, AFAIK, neither PostScript nor SVG offer 
support for both higher degree curves or B-splines...


Cheers,
Alexander

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Re: what's the centred-text-spanner state of the art?

[David Nalesnik]

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 10:27 AM, David Nalesnik
 wrote:
> Hi Kieren,
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 10:15 AM, Kieren MacMillan
>  wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> In the snippet below, I overload a tuplet bracket to create a spanner with a 
>> centred text.
>>
>> I would like to use TextSpanner instead.
>>
>>   1. I need the text/markup centred.
>>   2. I likely need the ability to have the spanner broken.
>>   3. I only need one piece of text (n.b. I’ve seen a lot of code going 
>> around for multiple text items).
>>
>> What is the current state of the art that will give me the most light-weight 
>> solution?
>
> You could use
>
> https://github.com/davidnalesnik/lilypond-text-spanner-inner-texts
>
> with markups for lines replacing the outer texts.
>

(See the last example for a bracket illustration.)

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Re: what's the centred-text-spanner state of the art?

[David Nalesnik]

Hi Kieren,

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 10:15 AM, Kieren MacMillan
 wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> In the snippet below, I overload a tuplet bracket to create a spanner with a 
> centred text.
>
> I would like to use TextSpanner instead.
>
>   1. I need the text/markup centred.
>   2. I likely need the ability to have the spanner broken.
>   3. I only need one piece of text (n.b. I’ve seen a lot of code going around 
> for multiple text items).
>
> What is the current state of the art that will give me the most light-weight 
> solution?

You could use

https://github.com/davidnalesnik/lilypond-text-spanner-inner-texts

with markups for lines replacing the outer texts.

HTH,
David

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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Urs Liska]

Am 03.01.2017 um 17:01 schrieb Alexander Kobel:
> On 2017-01-03 16:27, Urs Liska wrote:
>> Just for reference, attached you'll find my preliminary result with a 
>> compound slur that is somewhat more "mainstream" than the original Sorabji 
>> example :-)
> Geez! Apparently there's not just a need for irrational tuplets, but also 
> Bézier curves of arbitrary degrees for slurs! Some NURBS anyone? ;-)
> I assume you joined two slurs for that huge one due to the lack of better 
> options?

Internally that's what happens. But by now it's not necessary anymore to
fiddle around with this (and especially keeping the slur ends in sync).
Last September I wrote a function \compoundSlur (which is in
openLilyLIb, but still on a branch) which you apply instead of a slur
start and where you can configure the inflection points. The current
compound slur has been defined like this:

\compoundSlur \with {
  annotate = ##t
  show-grid = ##t

  start-point = #'(0.5 . -17)
  start-angle = -15
  start-ratio = 0.4
  end-point = #'(0 . 0)
  end-angle = -90
  end-ratio = 0.06

  inflection =
  #'((X-ratio . .11)
 (Y-offset . 5)
 (angle . 35)
 (ratio-left . 0.9)
 (ratio-right . 0.16))
}

I reattach a rendering *with* both the grid and the helper crosses and
lines which significantly helps with shaping such a curve. The
interesting point is that you can add an arbitrary number of inflection
points like this, and the function will automatically make sure the
segments are well connected, and with a straight line (i.e. the neighbor
control points are in exactly opposite directions).

You can read more about that in a thread "What to do wanting a 4th order
Bézier?" and one "Compound Slurs", both from last September.

Best
Urs

>
> Cheers,
> Alexander

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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Jan-Peter Voigt]

Hi Urs,

last year I was facing this issue and also used this override. Just as a 
hint is this example, using the edition-engraver. The method to enter 
succeeding mods which only differ by one value is the one I used. Some 
of the declared functions are taken from my own toolchain ...
To the point: There are functions to enter edition-mods with some kind 
of template function. This is very useful to adjust note-column-spacing 
along the timeline or for example lyric-align.


Jan-Peter


Am 03.01.2017 um 14:19 schrieb Urs Liska:



Am 03.01.2017 um 14:16 schrieb Thomas Morley:

2017-01-03 14:12 GMT+01:00 Urs Liska :


Am 03.01.2017 um 13:56 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:

How about the new spacing section?
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/new-spacing-section


Well, this at least does affect the horizontal spacing and allows to force
some space in. But it's very hard to control because you don't affect the
individual note/grob but rather the whole spacing process as such.

Attached is the best result I could achieve. The space before the grace
notes is fine (I used a higher value than necessary to make it visible), but
I have the side-effect of the misaligned clef (and too much space in the
middle of the first beamed group. This is regardless of where I place the
first \newSpacingSection.

Thanks anyway
Urs


I often use
\once \override Score.NoteColumn.X-offset = #10


Thank you, that was it.
Controllable and basically clear: I force LilyPond to ignore its own
decision and tell it what to do instead.

Urs

PS: Andrew, I have the impression that could also be good for you



Cheers,
  Harm




\version "2.19.54"
\include "oll-core/package.ily"
\include "snippets/ly/_internal/utilities/alist-access.ily"
\include "edition-engraver/edition-engraver.ily"

modMap =
#(define-void-function (edition-target edition-id proc lst)(symbol? list? procedure? list?)
   (for-each (lambda (p)
   (if (pair? p)
   (let ((mod (proc (cdr p
 (editionMod edition-target (caar p) (cdar p) edition-id mod)
 )))
 lst))

#(define-public optionsInit clratree)
#(define-public optionsGet getatree)
#(define-public optionsSet setatree)
#(define-public optionsAdd addatree)
#(define-public optionsRemove rematree)

#(define (frac-or-mom? v) (or (fraction? v)(ly:moment? v)))
addModM =
#(define-void-function (name takt pos mod)
 (symbol? integer? frac-or-mom? scheme?)
 (optionsAdd name (list (cons takt pos)) mod)
 )

shiftNoteColumn = \once \override NoteColumn.X-offset = \etc

%%%
%%%
%%%
% um diesen Teil gehts mir hier
\optionsInit opts
\addModM opts 1 1/4 #10
\addModM opts 1 2/4 #-2 % Die Note wird nur so nah wie möglich an die vorhergehende gerückt
\addModM opts 1 3/4 #28
\modMap target sing.with.bach.Score #shiftNoteColumn #opts
%%%
%%%
%%%

\consistToContexts #edition-engraver Score.Staff.Voice
\setEditions target

\layout {
  \context {
\Score
\editionID ##f sing.with.bach
  }
}

{ bes'4 a' c'' b' }
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what's the centred-text-spanner state of the art?

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hello all,

In the snippet below, I overload a tuplet bracket to create a spanner with a 
centred text.

I would like to use TextSpanner instead.

  1. I need the text/markup centred.
  2. I likely need the ability to have the spanner broken.
  3. I only need one piece of text (n.b. I’ve seen a lot of code going around 
for multiple text items).

What is the current state of the art that will give me the most light-weight 
solution?

Thanks,
Kieren. 

%%%  SNIPPET BEGINS
\version “2.19”

\paper { ragged-right = ##f line-width = 4\in }

fermTupSpan = {
\once \override TupletNumber.text =
\markup \halign #0 \with-dimensions #'(-1 . 0.625) #'(0 . 1)
\musicglyph #"scripts.ufermata"
\once \override TupletBracket.bracket-visibility = ##t
\once \override TupletBracket.direction = #UP
\once \override TupletBracket.style = #'dashed-line
\once \override TupletBracket.dash-period = #2
\once \override TupletBracket.dash-fraction = #1/3
\once \override TupletBracket.shorten-pair = #'(-1 . -1)
\once \override TupletBracket.padding = #2
}

test = { \fermTupSpan \tuplet 1/1 { e''4 4 r4 e''4 } }

\score { \test }
%%%  SNIPPET ENDS


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Mark Knoop]

Great start Urs! Why do you invert the stem direction in the first beat
from (at least my copy of) the original? Having the RH 6tuplet stems up
would seem to allow for closer staff spacing...

Lots of lilypond challenges in this piece. Looking forward to your
compound slurs on the penultimate page of the final movement!

At 16:27 on 03 Jan 2017, Urs Liska wrote:
>Just for reference, attached you'll find my preliminary result with a
>compound slur that is somewhat more "mainstream" than the original
>Sorabji example :-)
>
>Best
>Urs
>
>
>Am 03.01.2017 um 13:45 schrieb Urs Liska:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> it seems to me this should be easily doable, but I don't find the
>> right incantation.
>>
>> I would like to force some space between the first group in the right
>> hand and the following grace notes. This is necessary in order to 
>> squeeze a slur between them, coming from the dis in the left hand.
>>
>> From the manual I found
>>
>> \override Score.NonMusicalPaperColumn.padding = #10
>>
>> looking like it's what I need. But used like this it introduces space
>> between *all* notes, regardless of where it is placed. Trying to use
>> it with \once it doesn't have any effect (using 2.19.52).
>>
>> Any suggestion would be welcome.
>>
>> Urs
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>


-- 
Mark Knoop

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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Alexander Kobel]

On 2017-01-03 16:27, Urs Liska wrote:
> Just for reference, attached you'll find my preliminary result with a 
> compound slur that is somewhat more "mainstream" than the original Sorabji 
> example :-)

Geez! Apparently there's not just a need for irrational tuplets, but also 
Bézier curves of arbitrary degrees for slurs! Some NURBS anyone? ;-)
I assume you joined two slurs for that huge one due to the lack of better 
options?


Cheers,
Alexander

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Re: Experience with several import filters

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2017-01-03 um 15:10 schrieb Urs Liska :

> thanks for the detailed feedback. Could I summarize this as "it does
> work but not really satisfactorily. Depending on the kind of input there
> will be substantial cleanup to be done"?

Yes, that was IMO a good analysis and might be helpful in enhancing/replacing 
the script.

I tried midi2ly in the past, trying to convert MIDIs from other notational 
software like Harmony Assistant.
I would summarize it as "works theoretically, but the output makes no sense at 
all".
I never found MIDIs where it was _not_ easier to key the music in anew. (Ok, I 
copied some rhythmic voices that I needed only for MIDI output, not in notes.)

Greetlings, Hraban
---
fiëé visuëlle
Henning Hraban Ramm
http://www.fiee.net




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Re: Experience with several import filters

[karl]

Urs:
> thanks for the detailed feedback. Could I summarize this as "it does
> work but not really satisfactorily. Depending on the kind of input there
> will be substantial cleanup to be done"?

Yes, I think so.

> Do you actually use it in your work,

I have tried to use midi2ly but found I wanted to clean up the output 
so I made the script http://turkos.aspodata.se/git/musik/bin/tidy_midi.pl
However I didn't like result so I started my work on 
http://turkos.aspodata.se/git/musik/bin/miditoly.pl to see if I could 
do any better. Part of my answer was what I started to describe in
http://turkos.aspodata.se/git/musik/bin/midi_to_lilypond.tex

> or did you just make something up upon my question?

I don't understand what you mean by "make something up", it sounds
negative, but I don't believe you ment it that way.

///

BTW, there is another converter in http://web.mit.edu/music21/ but I
have some trouble installing and running it (missing lilypond).  And
I'm getting trouble compiling lilypond itself, partly because of the
guile-1.8 req. So I haven't hade any chanse to test it.

Regards,
/Karl Hammar

---
Aspö Data
Lilla Aspö 148
S-742 94 Östhammar
Sweden
+46 173 140 57



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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Urs Liska]

Just for reference, attached you'll find my preliminary result with a
compound slur that is somewhat more "mainstream" than the original
Sorabji example :-)

Best
Urs


Am 03.01.2017 um 13:45 schrieb Urs Liska:
> Hi all,
>
> it seems to me this should be easily doable, but I don't find the right
> incantation.
>
> I would like to force some space between the first group in the right
> hand and the following grace notes. This is necessary in order to 
> squeeze a slur between them, coming from the dis in the left hand.
>
> From the manual I found
>
> \override Score.NonMusicalPaperColumn.padding = #10
>
> looking like it's what I need. But used like this it introduces space
> between *all* notes, regardless of where it is placed. Trying to use it
> with \once it doesn't have any effect (using 2.19.52).
>
> Any suggestion would be welcome.
>
> Urs
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> lilypond-user@gnu.org
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Re: Access a tie from a slur

[Urs Liska]

Hi David,

thank you for the clarification.


Am 03.01.2017 um 15:07 schrieb David Nalesnik:
> Hi Urs,
>
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 1:14 AM, Urs Liska  wrote:
>> Hi David,
>>
>> thank you for now. This is proof that one can at least *get* to the
>> right information, and when the use-case is clearer one may also find a
>> more efficient approach if possible.
>>
>> Just one more question (a simple "yes" or "no" or a pointer to a
>> function name will do, no need to write a solution): The control-points
>> in tie-cps are of course relative to the tie's notehead. Is it possible
>> to determine the offset of the f' from the c'? This seems necessary to
>> make use of tie-cps to modify the slur.
> As far as horizontal position is concerned, you could use (from
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/internals/scheme-functions):
>
> "Function: ly:grob-relative-coordinate grob refp axis
>
> Get the coordinate in axis direction of grob relative to the grob refp."
>
> For refp, you'd want to use the System object.
>
> This will work well for horizontal positions, but it can lead to some
> nasty vertical spacing side-effects if you use it with Y-coordinates.
> In any case, however, the vertical cps are all relative to the center
> line, so no need for anything fancy.
>
> Hope this gets you going in the right direction--

I hope so. At least it gives me the impression that the task is
basically feasible, and I have something to come back to if I really
need it.

Best
Urs

>
> David

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Re: Experience with several import filters

[Urs Liska]

Hi Karl,

thanks for the detailed feedback. Could I summarize this as "it does
work but not really satisfactorily. Depending on the kind of input there
will be substantial cleanup to be done"?

Do you actually use it in your work, or did you just make something up
upon my question?

Best
Urs


Am 03.01.2017 um 12:48 schrieb k...@aspodata.se:
> Urs:
>> midi2ly
> Here we are talking of program (programs mainly used to make scores) 
> generated midi files.
>
> It kindof works, but has problems with
>
> // lyrics
> /// character encoding
> The midi file format standard says (about text events, [1] page 10):
>  However, other characters codes
>  using the high-order bit may be used for interchange of files between
>  different programs on the same computer which supports an extended
>  character set. Programs on a computer   which  does not support
>  non-ASCII characters should ignore those characters.
> Soo, there is a need to identify which encoding is used, and midi2ly 
> gives you errors like "warning: non-UTF-8 input"
> /// word combining
> E.g. given lyrics like:
>  'Sta' 'bat ' 'Ma' 'ter ' 'do' 'lo' 'ro' 'sa ' 
> RP-017 (recommended practice 17, see [2]) implies that it in lilypond
> code should become
>  Sta -- bat Ma -- ter do -- lo -- ro -- sa
> Instead midi2ly gives me 
>   "Sta"2 "bat " 
>   | % 2
>   "Ma" "ter "4 "do"2 "lo"4 "ro"2 
>   | % 4
>   "sa "4*15
> /// assoiation with a voice
> The first few events in track 1 of [4] is
> ['track_name', 0, 'S1'],
> ...
> ['lyric', 0, 'Sta'],
> ['note_on', 0, 0, 69, 80],
> ['note_off', 959, 0, 69, 64],
> ['lyric', 1, 'bat '],
> ['note_on', 0, 0, 71, 110],
> ['note_off', 959, 0, 71, 64],
> and there is no simultaneous music in the same track and it is clear
> that this lyrics belongs to this voice, but midi2ly doesn't identify
> that, it treats the lyrics as a totatly independent thing to the music
> where I would have liked a result like:
>
> lS_I = \context Lyrics = LS_I \lyricmode { ... }
> mS_I = \context Voice  = VS_I \relative f { ... }
>
> \score {
>   \new ChoirStaff <<
> \new Staff mS_I
> \lyricsto VS_I \LS_I
>   >>
> }
>
> or similar.
>
> // notes
> /// midi2ly uses Completion_heads_engraver
> instead of splitting notes at the bar lines and using ties
>
> /// note durations
> I get lilypond code like
>
> trackBchannelB = \relative c {
>   a''4*959/480 r4*1/480 b4*959/480 r4*1/480 
>   | % 2
>   c4*959/480 r4*1/480 c4*479/480 r4*1/480 c4*959/480 r4*1/480 c4*479/480 
>   r4*1/480 ais4*959/480 r4*1/480 
>
> where I would have expected
>
> MaA = \relative f {
>   \time 2/2
>   \key c \major
>   a'2 b |
>   c2 c4 c2 c4 ais2 |
>
> As you can see the notes are ended early and midi2ly inserts a very 
> short little rest. In this piece [3,4], the three shortest note
> durations are
>
> Duration 1/4 Count note_len
>108   0.2250  1 *(108)*
>119   0.2479  8 *(119)*
>120   0.2500  5 16
>
> in that view it is not reasonable to treat a silence of duration 1
> as a rest. It seems that $quanta = int($duration[0]*0.6) works well
> for that kind of things and durations such as the three above is
> better treated as phrasing than followed by a rest.
>
> (Also, you might treat a note duration of 0 as an \appogiatura
> (not present in my example [3,4]).)
>
> /// missing \time
> see the above example and "track 0" below
>
> /// missing \key
> even though \key c \major is default, its nice to write it out
>
> // score
> I get
>
> trackI = <<
>
>   \clef bass
>   
>   \context Lyrics = voiceA \trackIchannelA
>   \context Voice = voiceB \trackIchannelB
>
> \score {
>   <<
> \context Lyrics=trackB \trackB
> \context Lyrics=trackC \trackC
> \context Lyrics=trackD \trackD
> \context Lyrics=trackE \trackE
> \context Lyrics=trackF \trackF
> \context Lyrics=trackG \trackG
> \context Lyrics=trackH \trackH
> \context Lyrics=trackI \trackI
>   >>
>   \layout {}
>   \midi {}
> }
>
> which gives me everything on a single staff instead of 8.
>
> // track 0
>
> # Track #0 ...
> MIDI::Track->new({
>   'type' => 'MTrk',
>   'events' => [  # 8 events.
> ['track_name', 0, 'Stabat Mater Dolorosa'],
> ['time_signature', 0, 2, 1, 48, 8],
> ['set_tempo', 0, 454540],
> ['time_signature', 140160, 3, 2, 24, 8],
> ['set_tempo', 0, 416660],
> ['time_signature', 28800, 2, 1, 48, 8],
> ['set_tempo', 0, 454540],
> ['end_track', 186240],
>   ]
> }),
>
> is converted to 
>
> trackAchannelA = {
>   
>   \set Staff.instrumentName = "Stabat Mater Dolorosa"
>   
>   \time 2/2 
>   
>   \tempo 4 = 132 
>   \skip 1*73 
>   \time 3/4 
>   
>   \tempo 4 = 144 
>   \skip 1*15 
>   \time 2/2 
>   
>   \tempo 4 = 132 
>   
> }
>
> where the track_name of track 0 is better converted to
>
> \header {
>   title = "Stabat Mater Dolorosa"
> }
>
> and I would like \time to be included in the 

Re: Access a tie from a slur

[David Nalesnik]

Hi Urs,

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 1:14 AM, Urs Liska  wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> thank you for now. This is proof that one can at least *get* to the
> right information, and when the use-case is clearer one may also find a
> more efficient approach if possible.
>
> Just one more question (a simple "yes" or "no" or a pointer to a
> function name will do, no need to write a solution): The control-points
> in tie-cps are of course relative to the tie's notehead. Is it possible
> to determine the offset of the f' from the c'? This seems necessary to
> make use of tie-cps to modify the slur.

As far as horizontal position is concerned, you could use (from
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/internals/scheme-functions):

"Function: ly:grob-relative-coordinate grob refp axis

Get the coordinate in axis direction of grob relative to the grob refp."

For refp, you'd want to use the System object.

This will work well for horizontal positions, but it can lead to some
nasty vertical spacing side-effects if you use it with Y-coordinates.
In any case, however, the vertical cps are all relative to the center
line, so no need for anything fancy.

Hope this gets you going in the right direction--

David

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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Urs Liska]

Am 03.01.2017 um 14:16 schrieb Thomas Morley:
> 2017-01-03 14:12 GMT+01:00 Urs Liska :
>>
>> Am 03.01.2017 um 13:56 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:
>>
>> How about the new spacing section?
>> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/new-spacing-section
>>
>>
>> Well, this at least does affect the horizontal spacing and allows to force
>> some space in. But it's very hard to control because you don't affect the
>> individual note/grob but rather the whole spacing process as such.
>>
>> Attached is the best result I could achieve. The space before the grace
>> notes is fine (I used a higher value than necessary to make it visible), but
>> I have the side-effect of the misaligned clef (and too much space in the
>> middle of the first beamed group. This is regardless of where I place the
>> first \newSpacingSection.
>>
>> Thanks anyway
>> Urs
>
> I often use
> \once \override Score.NoteColumn.X-offset = #10

Thank you, that was it.
Controllable and basically clear: I force LilyPond to ignore its own
decision and tell it what to do instead.

Urs

PS: Andrew, I have the impression that could also be good for you

>
> Cheers,
>   Harm

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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Pierre,

I use proportional notation and the new spacing section is never happy when
combined with that, it appears.

Oftimes I just wish I could tell lilypond to stop being so smart and do
note spacing how I want it, regardless of whether it is 'correct' or not.
Horror of horrors, I would even like to be able to specify point by point
spacing in linear units like ems! [As you can see, a hopeless case am I!]

Andrew
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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Thomas Morley]

2017-01-03 14:12 GMT+01:00 Urs Liska :
>
>
> Am 03.01.2017 um 13:56 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:
>
> How about the new spacing section?
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/new-spacing-section
>
>
> Well, this at least does affect the horizontal spacing and allows to force
> some space in. But it's very hard to control because you don't affect the
> individual note/grob but rather the whole spacing process as such.
>
> Attached is the best result I could achieve. The space before the grace
> notes is fine (I used a higher value than necessary to make it visible), but
> I have the side-effect of the misaligned clef (and too much space in the
> middle of the first beamed group. This is regardless of where I place the
> first \newSpacingSection.
>
> Thanks anyway
> Urs


I often use
\once \override Score.NoteColumn.X-offset = #10

Cheers,
  Harm

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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Urs Liska]

Am 03.01.2017 um 14:06 schrieb Rutger Hofman:
> On 03-01-17 13:45, Urs Liska wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> it seems to me this should be easily doable, but I don't find the right
>> incantation.
>>
>> I would like to force some space between the first group in the right
>> hand and the following grace notes. This is necessary in order to
>> squeeze a slur between them, coming from the dis in the left hand.
>>
>> From the manual I found
>>
>> \override Score.NonMusicalPaperColumn.padding = #10
>>
>> looking like it's what I need. But used like this it introduces space
>> between *all* notes, regardless of where it is placed. Trying to use it
>> with \once it doesn't have any effect (using 2.19.52).
>>
>> Any suggestion would be welcome.
>>
>> Urs
>>
>>
>
> Hacky: adding s32 (or whatever) as the first note of the grace group
> works. Of course this is only because it is within a grace, but
> otherwise force-hshift might help?

Hey, this is cool. Pretty unsemantic hack but does actually work in this
context.

force-hshift usually doesn't help in cases like this (I think) because
it only shifts different voices against each other. So if no second
voice is present it just doesn't have any effect.

Urs

>
> Rutger
>
>
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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Urs Liska]

Am 03.01.2017 um 13:56 schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider:
> How about the new spacing section?
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/new-spacing-section

Well, this at least does affect the horizontal spacing and allows to
force some space in. But it's very hard to control because you don't
affect the individual note/grob but rather the whole spacing process as
such.

Attached is the best result I could achieve. The space before the grace
notes is fine (I used a higher value than necessary to make it visible),
but I have the side-effect of the misaligned clef (and too much space in
the middle of the first beamed group. This is regardless of where I
place the first \newSpacingSection.

Thanks anyway
Urs

>
> HTH,
> Pierre
>
> 2017-01-03 13:53 GMT+01:00 Andrew Bernard  >:
>
> Hi Urs,
>
> No solution from me, but I just feel compelled to mention that
> this is one of my BIG issues with lilypond that I cannot seem to
> control - adjusting fine spacing like this in my scores is never
> successful. If there is a way to do it, hopefully somebody will
> let us know. If not, this would be a hugely desirable enhancement.
> I also have issues with grace note spacing becoming uneven when
> used in the context of cross staff beaming, and compounding that
> with the use of dodecaphonic accidentals makes lilypond produce
> very ugly output. It's about my only criticism of the entire
> marvellous application.
>
> Andrew
>
>
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>
>

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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Alexander Kobel]

On 2017-01-03 13:56, Pierre Perol-Schneider wrote:
> How about the new spacing section?
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/new-spacing-section

Sounds like the most proper solution, perhaps with adjustments of 
shortest-duration-space.

For dirty one-shot tweaks though, note-attached dummy markups with 
\textLengthOn will also work...
  { a b \once \textLengthOn c_\markup { \hspace #10 \null } d e f g }


HTH,
Alexander

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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[SoundsFromSound]

Schneidy wrote
> How about the new spacing section?
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/new-spacing-section
> 
> HTH,
> Pierre

Yes! This indeed.

I love the \newSpacingSection command it's a lifesaver! So happy this was
added to LilyPond. 




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Cross-staff slur spoils collision handling

[Urs Liska]

In my previous post
(http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2017-01/msg00036.html)
I showed a complicated situation with a cross-staff voicing.

When I now add a cross-staff slur things get worse.

The red slur starts from the (upper) dis in the lower staff and ends at
a note in the upper staff. I can live with the issue that LilyPond
starts this slur above the upper staff, as I wouldn't expect software to
be able to properly find a way for this slur. But as soon as this slur
is present the vertical spacing is spoiled, and several elements overlap:

The blue accent is encoded with the upper dis in the lower staff (same
as the start of the slur), while the \f is in its own Dynamics context.
*With* the slur the whole lower staff is shifted somewhat upwards,
letting the accent and the dynamics collide. I have the impression is
actually the other way round: the collision handling is out of order,
thus allowing the systems to be moved closer together.
The colliding elements are placed identically when I force the slur down
(second image with the magenta slur).

So:

a)
Is it a (known) bug that adding a cross-staff slur negatively affects
collision handling?

b)
What element should I override to fix that collision with the least
hacky, semantically most "valid" trick?

Any ideas?
Thanks
Urs



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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Rutger Hofman]

On 03-01-17 13:45, Urs Liska wrote:

Hi all,

it seems to me this should be easily doable, but I don't find the right
incantation.

I would like to force some space between the first group in the right
hand and the following grace notes. This is necessary in order to
squeeze a slur between them, coming from the dis in the left hand.

From the manual I found

\override Score.NonMusicalPaperColumn.padding = #10

looking like it's what I need. But used like this it introduces space
between *all* notes, regardless of where it is placed. Trying to use it
with \once it doesn't have any effect (using 2.19.52).

Any suggestion would be welcome.

Urs




Hacky: adding s32 (or whatever) as the first note of the grace group 
works. Of course this is only because it is within a grace, but 
otherwise force-hshift might help?


Rutger


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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

How about the new spacing section?
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/new-spacing-section

HTH,
Pierre

2017-01-03 13:53 GMT+01:00 Andrew Bernard :

> Hi Urs,
>
> No solution from me, but I just feel compelled to mention that this is one
> of my BIG issues with lilypond that I cannot seem to control - adjusting
> fine spacing like this in my scores is never successful. If there is a way
> to do it, hopefully somebody will let us know. If not, this would be a
> hugely desirable enhancement. I also have issues with grace note spacing
> becoming uneven when used in the context of cross staff beaming, and
> compounding that with the use of dodecaphonic accidentals makes lilypond
> produce very ugly output. It's about my only criticism of the entire
> marvellous application.
>
> Andrew
>
>
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> lilypond-user@gnu.org
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>
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Re: Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Urs,

No solution from me, but I just feel compelled to mention that this is one
of my BIG issues with lilypond that I cannot seem to control - adjusting
fine spacing like this in my scores is never successful. If there is a way
to do it, hopefully somebody will let us know. If not, this would be a
hugely desirable enhancement. I also have issues with grace note spacing
becoming uneven when used in the context of cross staff beaming, and
compounding that with the use of dodecaphonic accidentals makes lilypond
produce very ugly output. It's about my only criticism of the entire
marvellous application.

Andrew
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Forcing some horizontal space between two notes

[Urs Liska]

Hi all,

it seems to me this should be easily doable, but I don't find the right
incantation.

I would like to force some space between the first group in the right
hand and the following grace notes. This is necessary in order to 
squeeze a slur between them, coming from the dis in the left hand.

>From the manual I found

\override Score.NonMusicalPaperColumn.padding = #10

looking like it's what I need. But used like this it introduces space
between *all* notes, regardless of where it is placed. Trying to use it
with \once it doesn't have any effect (using 2.19.52).

Any suggestion would be welcome.

Urs


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Re: Experience with several import filters

[karl]

Urs:
> midi2ly

Here we are talking of program (programs mainly used to make scores) 
generated midi files.

It kindof works, but has problems with

// lyrics
/// character encoding
The midi file format standard says (about text events, [1] page 10):
 However, other characters codes
 using the high-order bit may be used for interchange of files between
 different programs on the same computer which supports an extended
 character set. Programs on a computer   which  does not support
 non-ASCII characters should ignore those characters.
Soo, there is a need to identify which encoding is used, and midi2ly 
gives you errors like "warning: non-UTF-8 input"
/// word combining
E.g. given lyrics like:
 'Sta' 'bat ' 'Ma' 'ter ' 'do' 'lo' 'ro' 'sa ' 
RP-017 (recommended practice 17, see [2]) implies that it in lilypond
code should become
 Sta -- bat Ma -- ter do -- lo -- ro -- sa
Instead midi2ly gives me 
  "Sta"2 "bat " 
  | % 2
  "Ma" "ter "4 "do"2 "lo"4 "ro"2 
  | % 4
  "sa "4*15
/// assoiation with a voice
The first few events in track 1 of [4] is
['track_name', 0, 'S1'],
...
['lyric', 0, 'Sta'],
['note_on', 0, 0, 69, 80],
['note_off', 959, 0, 69, 64],
['lyric', 1, 'bat '],
['note_on', 0, 0, 71, 110],
['note_off', 959, 0, 71, 64],
and there is no simultaneous music in the same track and it is clear
that this lyrics belongs to this voice, but midi2ly doesn't identify
that, it treats the lyrics as a totatly independent thing to the music
where I would have liked a result like:

lS_I = \context Lyrics = LS_I \lyricmode { ... }
mS_I = \context Voice  = VS_I \relative f { ... }

\score {
  \new ChoirStaff <<
\new Staff mS_I
\lyricsto VS_I \LS_I
  >>
}

or similar.

// notes
/// midi2ly uses Completion_heads_engraver
instead of splitting notes at the bar lines and using ties

/// note durations
I get lilypond code like

trackBchannelB = \relative c {
  a''4*959/480 r4*1/480 b4*959/480 r4*1/480 
  | % 2
  c4*959/480 r4*1/480 c4*479/480 r4*1/480 c4*959/480 r4*1/480 c4*479/480 
  r4*1/480 ais4*959/480 r4*1/480 

where I would have expected

MaA = \relative f {
  \time 2/2
  \key c \major
  a'2 b |
  c2 c4 c2 c4 ais2 |

As you can see the notes are ended early and midi2ly inserts a very 
short little rest. In this piece [3,4], the three shortest note
durations are

Duration 1/4 Count note_len
   108   0.2250  1 *(108)*
   119   0.2479  8 *(119)*
   120   0.2500  5 16

in that view it is not reasonable to treat a silence of duration 1
as a rest. It seems that $quanta = int($duration[0]*0.6) works well
for that kind of things and durations such as the three above is
better treated as phrasing than followed by a rest.

(Also, you might treat a note duration of 0 as an \appogiatura
(not present in my example [3,4]).)

/// missing \time
see the above example and "track 0" below

/// missing \key
even though \key c \major is default, its nice to write it out

// score
I get

trackI = <<

  \clef bass
  
  \context Lyrics = voiceA \trackIchannelA
  \context Voice = voiceB \trackIchannelB
>>


\score {
  <<
\context Lyrics=trackB \trackB
\context Lyrics=trackC \trackC
\context Lyrics=trackD \trackD
\context Lyrics=trackE \trackE
\context Lyrics=trackF \trackF
\context Lyrics=trackG \trackG
\context Lyrics=trackH \trackH
\context Lyrics=trackI \trackI
  >>
  \layout {}
  \midi {}
}

which gives me everything on a single staff instead of 8.

// track 0

# Track #0 ...
MIDI::Track->new({
  'type' => 'MTrk',
  'events' => [  # 8 events.
['track_name', 0, 'Stabat Mater Dolorosa'],
['time_signature', 0, 2, 1, 48, 8],
['set_tempo', 0, 454540],
['time_signature', 140160, 3, 2, 24, 8],
['set_tempo', 0, 416660],
['time_signature', 28800, 2, 1, 48, 8],
['set_tempo', 0, 454540],
['end_track', 186240],
  ]
}),

is converted to 

trackAchannelA = {
  
  \set Staff.instrumentName = "Stabat Mater Dolorosa"
  
  \time 2/2 
  
  \tempo 4 = 132 
  \skip 1*73 
  \time 3/4 
  
  \tempo 4 = 144 
  \skip 1*15 
  \time 2/2 
  
  \tempo 4 = 132 
  
}

where the track_name of track 0 is better converted to

\header {
  title = "Stabat Mater Dolorosa"
}

and I would like \time to be included in the music.

Regards,
/Karl Hammar

[1] http://www.music.mcgill.ca/~ich/classes/mumt306/midiformat.pdf
[2] https://www.midi.org/specifications/item/standard-midi-files-smf
[3] http://www.johnkilpatrick.co.uk/music/misc/stabat-palestrina-e.pdf
[4] http://www.johnkilpatrick.co.uk/music/misc/stabat-palestrina-e.mid

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Experience with several import filters

[Urs Liska]

Hey users,

Jan-Peter and I will have to give a report of the current state of
import/export options to and from LilyPond. As there are a number of
tools I have never used
(http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/usage/converting-from-other-formats)
I would like to ask for any comments regarding the usability of these
tools: I know I could search the archives but I would prefer current
statements of people who are actually using them (or don't use them
because they don' work as expected).

midi2ly and musicxml2ly
If I'm not mistaken these tools do work but are not completely reliable.
is that correct? Can they be used in professional context at all, maybe
only with certain types (complexities) of repertoire?

abc2ly
Is anyone using this? If so, does it work properly, does it produce
up-to-date LilyPond code?

etf2ly
Is anyone using this? If so, which versions of Finale does this support?
Somehow I can't imagine this can be used for reasonably current Finale
versions.

Thanks in advance
Urs


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