Re: caesura or other ornamentation ?.

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi All,

With the understanding that this is long before the age of 
standardisation of anything, and one author's table of ornaments is not 
necessarily what another composer would have, and performers would 
naturally have taken great liberties with interpretation of signs. Not 
until 19c did people become very rigid about ornaments and signs. I 
write speaking as a harpsichord player myself.


As an aside, but related, to this day nobody really has any clear idea 
what the single and double strokes on stems that are ornament signs in 
English Virginal Music really mean. There are dozens of different opinions.


As for whether trills and shakes start on the principal note or not, 
that is an Eternal Debate that will never be resolved.


Isn't there an article here about making new ornaments for noteheads, 
for 18c French music in particular?


https://lilypondblog.org/2013/08/adding-ornamentations-to-note-heads-part-1/


Andrew


On 10/07/2019 1:21 am, Torsten Hämmerle wrote:

prelleur_treatise_ornaments_1731.png



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Re: caesura or other ornamentation ?.

[Torsten Hämmerle]

Following Aaron's formidable example, I've done some minor modifications.
Just a matter of taste, of course…:

- straight lines (flags.ugrace) to more resemble the original symbols and
make them more distinguishable from a caesura.

- "downgraded" the syntax to make it all work with the current stable
version 2.18.2, too (# in front of the musicglyph names and \combine instead
of the new \overlay command.

- turn instead of trill as a basis, simply because it will stay closer to
the notehead without having to tweak outside-staff-priority. If there's a
concurring text script like "the shake turned", this text will be placed
between the notehead and a trill, but a turn will stay with its notehead.


%
\version "2.18.2"

forefall-markup = \markup \rotate #'-15 \musicglyph #"flags.ugrace"
forefall = #(let ((m (make-articulation "turn")))
  (set! (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)
(acons 'stencil (lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob forefall-markup))
  (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)))
  m)
backfall-markup = \markup \rotate #'-65 \musicglyph #"flags.ugrace"
backfall = #(let ((m (make-articulation "turn")))
  (set! (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)
(acons 'stencil (lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob backfall-markup))
  (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)))
  m)

shakeTurned-markup = \markup \combine 
  \lower #'0.75 \rotate #'205 \scale #'(1 . 1.25) \musicglyph
#"ties.lyric.default"
  \combine
  \rotate #'-15 \musicglyph #"flags.ugrace"
  \lower #'0.5 \rotate #'-15 \musicglyph #"flags.ugrace"

shakeTurned = #(let ((m (make-articulation "turn")))
  (set! (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)
(acons 'stencil (lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob shakeTurned-markup ))
  (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)))
  m)

\relative {
  \omit Staff.Clef
  \omit Staff.TimeSignature
  \override Staff.TextScript.staff-padding = #4
  \cadenzaOn
  <>^"Forefall"
  s4 g'\forefall s8 \bar "|" s8 f16[ g8.] s4 \bar "||"
  <>^"Backfall"
  s4 g\backfall s8 \bar "|" s8 a16[ g8.] s4 \bar "||"
  <>^"Turn"
  s4 g\turn s8 \bar "|" s8 g16[ a32 g f16 g] s8 \bar "||"
  <>^"the shake turned"
  s4 g\shakeTurned s8 \bar "|" s8 a16[ g a g] fis[ g8.] s8\bar "||"
}
%

OfTheGraces.png
  

All the best,
Torsten




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Re: caesura or other ornamentation ?.

[Aaron Hill]

On 2019-07-09 7:34 pm, Aaron Hill wrote:

On 2019-07-09 7:11 pm, Eby Mani wrote:

Many Thanks Torsten, exactly the thing i was looking for.

Now, how to do those "Forefall" and "the shake turned" symbols in
lilypond. any snippets ?.


You could do something like this:


\version "2.19.83"

forefall-markup = \markup \rotate #'-30 \musicglyph "scripts.rvarcomma"
forefall = #(let ((m (make-articulation "trill")))
  (set! (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)
(acons 'stencil (lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob forefall-markup))
  (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)))
  m)

shakeTurned-markup = \markup \overlay {
  \raise #'0.65 \rotate #'-150 \musicglyph "ties.lyric.short"
  \rotate #'-30 \musicglyph "scripts.rvarcomma"
  \lower #'0.55 \rotate #'-30 \musicglyph "scripts.rvarcomma"
}
shakeTurned = #(let ((m (make-articulation "trill")))
  (set! (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)
(acons 'stencil (lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob shakeTurned-markup))
  (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)))
  m)

{ b'4 b'\forefall b'\shakeTurned b' }


Here I am partying on the "trill" articulation and changing its
stencil using glyphs that already exist in the notation font.


Apologies.  I had meant to include an image as well.


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Re: caesura or other ornamentation ?.

[Aaron Hill]

On 2019-07-09 7:11 pm, Eby Mani wrote:

Many Thanks Torsten, exactly the thing i was looking for.

Now, how to do those "Forefall" and "the shake turned" symbols in
lilypond. any snippets ?.


You could do something like this:


\version "2.19.83"

forefall-markup = \markup \rotate #'-30 \musicglyph "scripts.rvarcomma"
forefall = #(let ((m (make-articulation "trill")))
  (set! (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)
(acons 'stencil (lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob forefall-markup))
  (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)))
  m)

shakeTurned-markup = \markup \overlay {
  \raise #'0.65 \rotate #'-150 \musicglyph "ties.lyric.short"
  \rotate #'-30 \musicglyph "scripts.rvarcomma"
  \lower #'0.55 \rotate #'-30 \musicglyph "scripts.rvarcomma"
}
shakeTurned = #(let ((m (make-articulation "trill")))
  (set! (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)
(acons 'stencil (lambda (grob)
(grob-interpret-markup grob shakeTurned-markup))
  (ly:music-property m 'tweaks)))
  m)

{ b'4 b'\forefall b'\shakeTurned b' }


Here I am partying on the "trill" articulation and changing its stencil 
using glyphs that already exist in the notation font.



-- Aaron Hill

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Re: caesura or other ornamentation ?.

[Torsten Hämmerle]

As "Insert Image" doesn't seem to have worked, here's a PNG file (hopefully)
prelleur_treatise_ornaments_1731.png

  

Torsten




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Re: caesura or other ornamentation ?.

[Torsten Hämmerle]

Hi Eby et al.,

In Peter Prelleur's 1731 treatise "The Modern Musick-Master", there are some
hints about keyboard ornamentation in the section "Of the Graces:". And, lo
and behold, that seems to clarify the issue, indeed:

 

HTH,
Torsten



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Re: caesura or other ornamentation ?.

[eby_km]

 Hello Andrew,

This is by William Hine, before 1750, the title simply says Voluntary. I have 
read somewhere how to interpret English music written before 1750.

I'm not sure if inverted-mordent/trill were written like caesura in those days. 
If you look at the sample, there are turns and trill or pralls. Is there any 
online reference for these non-standard ornament shape ?.

eby
 On Sunday, 7 July, 2019, 9:58:30 PM IST, Andrew Bernard 
 wrote:  
 
 Hello eby_km,
Well they are definitely keyboard ornaments. It would be helpful if you could 
say what the piece is and who is the composer and date? There are countless 
non-standard ornaments in 18c - this was well before the stage of 
standardization of notation. Not caesura, that much is certain.
Andrew

On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 01:24,  wrote:

Hello all, i'm typesetting a handwritten score found on internet, it does have 
several marking similar to "caesura" and "fermata + caesura" above the note 
itself and many youtube recordings this is played with "prall" variants for 
those weird markings, can someone confirm whether these are indeed "caesura" or 
some other ornamentation in the attached example ?.


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Re: caesura or other ornamentation ?.

[Andrew Bernard]

Hello eby_km,

Well they are definitely keyboard ornaments. It would be helpful if you
could say what the piece is and who is the composer and date? There are
countless non-standard ornaments in 18c - this was well before the stage of
standardization of notation. Not caesura, that much is certain.

Andrew


On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 01:24,  wrote:

> Hello all, i'm typesetting a handwritten score found on internet, it does
> have several marking similar to "caesura" and "fermata + caesura" above the
> note itself and many youtube recordings this is played with "prall"
> variants for those weird markings, can someone confirm whether these are
> indeed "caesura" or some other ornamentation in the attached example ?.
>
>
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