Re: Display a cue clef like a regular clef after a line break

[Lucas Werkmeister]

On 03.03.2018 02:06, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> Try this:
>
> \override Clef.font-size = #-3
>
> Adjust size to taste.
>
> Well worth spending the time to read and digest the material in the
> Internals section of the documentation. Look up Clef in the 'All
> layout objects' section, and then look at the bottom to see all the
> interfaces Clef implements, and you will find everything you need. By
> the way, the clef-interface supports the property full-size-change
> which is also useful.
>
>
> Andrew

Thanks! \once \override Staff.Clef.font-size = #-1 for the bass clef and
the same with -2 for the violin clef seems to match the original score
best. Not sure if Staff is the most appropriate context to use, but it
seems to work (default context doesn’t) and in combination with the
\once it doesn’t mess up anything else. But I’m still learning, perhaps
I’ll discover a better way :)

Cheers,
Lucas


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Re: Display a cue clef like a regular clef after a line break

[Andrew Bernard]

Try this:

\override Clef.font-size = #-3

Adjust size to taste.

Well worth spending the time to read and digest the material in the
Internals section of the documentation. Look up Clef in the 'All layout
objects' section, and then look at the bottom to see all the interfaces
Clef implements, and you will find everything you need. By the way, the
clef-interface supports the property full-size-change which is also useful.


Andrew
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Re: Display a cue clef like a regular clef after a line break

[Lucas Werkmeister]

[The email David’s responding to was rejected for the mailing list since
the attachments were too large; you can find the images at
https://imgur.com/a/jc6ga.]

On 03.03.2018 01:11, David Kastrup wrote:
> Lucas Werkmeister  writes:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> Andrew, attached you’ll find a photograph of the score I’m trying to
>> reproduce (please excuse the quality) and a screenshot of what Lilypond
>> produces.
>>
>> David, apologies – I’m not very familiar with the difference between cue
>> and regular clefs, but at least visually, the clefs in the original
>> score look more like cues than regular ones to me. (Please see the
>> photograph as well.)
> The difference is not a question of visuals but of semantics.  Cue clefs
> are for _cues_, material from other instruments quoted as reference.
> They don't override the regular clef.
>
>> It’s quite possible that the original score is simply incorrect in its
>> use of clefs here – the publisher seems to have been obscure in its day
>> already.
> I don't see much of a difference here, and of course you can reduce the
> size of non-cue clefs further.  It just would be a bad idea to do so,
> but then LilyPond will usually also make it possible to cater to bad
> ideas.
>
Okay, then semantically we’re definitely talking about a regular clef
here, and I’m searching for a way to reduce the size of the clefs. I’ll
see if I can figure out how to do that – sounds like a more tractable
problem. (Probably not tonight, though.)

Thanks a lot for your help,
Lucas


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Re: Display a cue clef like a regular clef after a line break

[David Kastrup]

Lucas Werkmeister  writes:

> Hi!
>
> Andrew, attached you’ll find a photograph of the score I’m trying to
> reproduce (please excuse the quality) and a screenshot of what Lilypond
> produces.
>
> David, apologies – I’m not very familiar with the difference between cue
> and regular clefs, but at least visually, the clefs in the original
> score look more like cues than regular ones to me. (Please see the
> photograph as well.)

The difference is not a question of visuals but of semantics.  Cue clefs
are for _cues_, material from other instruments quoted as reference.
They don't override the regular clef.

> It’s quite possible that the original score is simply incorrect in its
> use of clefs here – the publisher seems to have been obscure in its day
> already.

I don't see much of a difference here, and of course you can reduce the
size of non-cue clefs further.  It just would be a bad idea to do so,
but then LilyPond will usually also make it possible to cater to bad
ideas.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Display a cue clef like a regular clef after a line break

[David Kastrup]

Lucas Werkmeister  writes:

> Hello,
>
> I am trying to transcribe a piano composition from the late 19th
> century, staying as faithful to the original score as possible. At two
> points in this score, the right hand is set in bass clef for two bars,
> and one of those sections is across a line break, similar to this tiny
> example:
>
> \version "2.18.2"
> {
>   c'1 |
>   \cueClef "bass" f | \break
>   g \cueClefUnset |
>   c' |
> }

Uh, why are you using cue clefs here instead of regular clefs?  This is
no cue at all.

> However, Lilypond begins the second line with a regular-size treble clef
> and a smaller cue bass clef after it, whereas the original score has the
> line beginning with a full bass clef, as if a permanent clef change had
> occured (even though the next bar changes into treble clef again).

A "permanent" clef change _has_ occured and _played_ notes are
affected.  Just use \clef instead of \cueClef and you should be fine.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Display a cue clef like a regular clef after a line break

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Lukas,

Can you post an image of what you want? That would make it easier to help.

Andrew
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Display a cue clef like a regular clef after a line break

[Lucas Werkmeister]

Hello,

I am trying to transcribe a piano composition from the late 19th
century, staying as faithful to the original score as possible. At two
points in this score, the right hand is set in bass clef for two bars,
and one of those sections is across a line break, similar to this tiny
example:

\version "2.18.2"
{
  c'1 |
  \cueClef "bass" f | \break
  g \cueClefUnset |
  c' |
}

However, Lilypond begins the second line with a regular-size treble clef
and a smaller cue bass clef after it, whereas the original score has the
line beginning with a full bass clef, as if a permanent clef change had
occured (even though the next bar changes into treble clef again).
Though this might be stylistically questionable – is it possible to
reproduce this effect in Lilypond? I found [1] in the snippet
repository, which appears to achieve a similar effect in the third
figure (left hand, with reversed roles for the clefs), but I’m afraid
the source code of that example is quite beyond me, and my attempts to
extract the relevant (to me) parts of it have failed.

Best regards,
Lucas Werkmeister

[1]: http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=326

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