Re: Bar in a Symphony by Beethoven

[Víctor Manuel Ares Piñeiro via lilypond-user]

Thank you all very much for your help and comments.

I think I'm clear on how to do musical notation.

Greetings to the whole community from Spain.

Víctor Manuel Ares Piñeiro
victormanue...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
El sábado, 10 de agosto de 2019 11:23, Víctor Manuel Ares Piñeiro via 
lilypond-user  escribió:

> Greetings to all members of the group:
>
> I'm transcribing Beethoven Symphonies using LilyPond for my personal use and 
> enjoyment, and I've come across a musical notation that I don't know how to 
> implement in LilyPond. I've tried to find examples of how to do it, but I 
> haven't been able to find any. I attacg in the mail the PNG image of the bar 
> I'm trying to replicate. Does anyone know how to write this bar in LilyPond?
>
> Thank you very much for your help
>
> Víctor Manuel Ares Piñeiro
> victormanue...@protonmail.com___
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Re: Bar in a Symphony by Beethoven

[Ben]

On 8/12/2019 9:23 AM, Phil Holmes wrote:


RHS = Right Hand Side (when not Royal Horticultural Society).

--
Phil Holmes

Ah, thank you Phil. My brain was thinking in "syntax/command" mode, not 
math equation/sides. :)


Much appreciated!

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Re: Bar in a Symphony by Beethoven

[Phil Holmes]

RHS = Right Hand Side (when not Royal Horticultural Society).

--
Phil Holmes


  - Original Message - 
  From: Ben 
  To: lilypond-user@gnu.org 
  Sent: Monday, August 12, 2019 1:37 PM
  Subject: Re: Bar in a Symphony by Beethoven


  On 8/12/2019 4:39 AM, Andrew Bernard wrote:

Hi Victor, 

Now that Ben has given the game away :-) here's the code to make all beams 
flat: 

\override Beam.damping = #+inf.0 

So now I can transform your exercise: use the NR to find out exactly what 
the RHS means, and also how to use overrides. 

The composer I engrave for uses flat beams throughout, so this is a great 
little function. Certainly not a normal style, but lilypond can do anything, 
pretty much. 

All the best! 


Andrew 



  Andrew,

  Interestingly, I just tried searching my entire 885 page, LilyPond 2.19.81 
Notation Reference PDF for any hit including the term "#+inf.0" and it came up 
with zero results. I did search through the mailing list and did find a post of 
yours from back on Nov 20, 2015 where you mention the use of \override 
Beam.damping = #+inf.0 though. Do you know where that syntax is in the manual? 
Where did you find it? :)


  Also, what's RHS?



--


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Re: Bar in a Symphony by Beethoven

[Ben]

On 8/12/2019 4:39 AM, Andrew Bernard wrote:

Hi Victor,

Now that Ben has given the game away :-) here's the code to make all 
beams flat:


\override Beam.damping = #+inf.0

So now I can transform your exercise: use the NR to find out exactly 
what the RHS means, and also how to use overrides.


The composer I engrave for uses flat beams throughout, so this is a 
great little function. Certainly not a normal style, but lilypond can 
do anything, pretty much.


All the best!


Andrew



Andrew,

Interestingly, I just tried searching my entire 885 page, LilyPond 
2.19.81 Notation Reference PDF for any hit including the term "#+inf.0" 
and it came up with zero results. I did search through the mailing list 
and did find a post of yours from back on Nov 20, 2015 where you mention 
the use of \override Beam.damping = #+inf.0 though. Do you know where 
that syntax is in the manual? Where did you find it? :)


Also, what's RHS?

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Re: Bar in a Symphony by Beethoven

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Victor,

Now that Ben has given the game away :-) here's the code to make all 
beams flat:


\override Beam.damping = #+inf.0

So now I can transform your exercise: use the NR to find out exactly 
what the RHS means, and also how to use overrides.


The composer I engrave for uses flat beams throughout, so this is a 
great little function. Certainly not a normal style, but lilypond can do 
anything, pretty much.


All the best!


Andrew


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Re: Bar in a Symphony by Beethoven

[Ben]

On 8/11/2019 3:55 PM, Víctor Manuel Ares Piñeiro via lilypond-user wrote:

Thank you all very much for your answers and comments.

First of all, the code that Andrew Bernard very kindly gave me:

{
\clef bass
\stemUp
b,8
\stemDown
b8 b b b
}

This code was one of my first attempts to make that fragment. However, in my 
version of LilyPond, which is 2.19.82, the compiler shows me this warning:

"warning: no viable initial configuration found: may not find good beam slope

Although the score is compiled correctly, in each fragment of the score in 
which I use it, the compiler shows me the corresponding warning, and the 
Frescobaldi program marks the lines in red.

Maybe it's just a simple warning, no more complications, but I'd like to know if there's 
any other way to make that fragment without the LilyPond compiler "protesting".

On the other hand, Pierre Perol-Schneider, thank you very much for your 
warning. I am aware that this mode of writing is obsolete and not currently 
used. My intention is to copy Beethoven's Symphonies to review my musical 
knowledge and learn complex and unusual LilyPond techniques to improve my 
knowledge of the program.

Many thanks again to all of you for your answers.


Víctor Manuel Ares Piñeiro
victormanue...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
El sábado, 10 de agosto de 2019 14:38, Andrew Bernard 
 escribió:


Use stem up and stem down.

{
   \clef bass
   \stemUp
   b,8
   \stemDown
   b8 b b
}

I leave it as an exercise for you to check the NR (Notation Reference)
for how to make the beam flat.

Andrew

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Hi Victor,

It seems like you're having problems understanding the next step and how 
to discover the answer. Here is one way of looking at solving your problem.


{
  \clef bass
  \once \override Beam.positions = #'(1 . 1)
  \stemUp
  b,8
  \stemDown
  b8 b b
  \override Beam.damping = #2
  b b g g
}

Quick summary: by using the override and setting both to the same value, 
you essentially create a flat beam. And since your attached photo shows 
the beam going across the F line, the pair 1 . 1 seems to work fine in 
this case. (see attached)


Do you follow? :)

In several different sections of the comprehensive documentation you'll 
find code that concerns beams, slopes, and overrides. Check out the 
sections that talk about "manually controlling beam positions etc." or 
something similar.


Hope that helps you narrow it down, and by reverse engineering code to 
see how we arrive at solutions you learn to look at things from a 
different angle. Everyone learns differently. Forwards or backwards, 
it's all the same.


LilyPond has a lot of power, and you'll find what works for you!

Good luck!

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Re: Bar in a Symphony by Beethoven

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Victor,

You will note in my post I left it to you to find out from reading the NR
how to set the beam slope. It's not hard. But better if you learn than I
just write it for you!

Andrew
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Re: Bar in a Symphony by Beethoven

[Víctor Manuel Ares Piñeiro via lilypond-user]

Thank you all very much for your answers and comments.

First of all, the code that Andrew Bernard very kindly gave me:

{
   \clef bass
   \stemUp
   b,8
   \stemDown
   b8 b b b
}

This code was one of my first attempts to make that fragment. However, in my 
version of LilyPond, which is 2.19.82, the compiler shows me this warning:

"warning: no viable initial configuration found: may not find good beam slope

Although the score is compiled correctly, in each fragment of the score in 
which I use it, the compiler shows me the corresponding warning, and the 
Frescobaldi program marks the lines in red.

Maybe it's just a simple warning, no more complications, but I'd like to know 
if there's any other way to make that fragment without the LilyPond compiler 
"protesting".

On the other hand, Pierre Perol-Schneider, thank you very much for your 
warning. I am aware that this mode of writing is obsolete and not currently 
used. My intention is to copy Beethoven's Symphonies to review my musical 
knowledge and learn complex and unusual LilyPond techniques to improve my 
knowledge of the program.

Many thanks again to all of you for your answers.


Víctor Manuel Ares Piñeiro
victormanue...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
El sábado, 10 de agosto de 2019 14:38, Andrew Bernard 
 escribió:

> Use stem up and stem down.
>
> {
>   \clef bass
>   \stemUp
>   b,8
>   \stemDown
>   b8 b b
> }
>
> I leave it as an exercise for you to check the NR (Notation Reference)
> for how to make the beam flat.
>
> Andrew
>
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user



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Re: Bar in a Symphony by Beethoven

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

+1
Cheers,
Pierre

Le dim. 11 août 2019 à 12:26, Andrew Bernard  a
écrit :

> Nevertheless, many people like to copy the old styles. It's not invalid.
> And lilypond lets you do it!
>
> Andrew
>
>
> On 11/8/19 5:22 pm, Pierre Perol-Schneider wrote:
>
> Please note that this type of notation is outdated.
>
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Re: Bar in a Symphony by Beethoven

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Hi,

Le dim. 11 août 2019 à 10:42, Wols Lists  a
écrit :


> Please note that lilypond is *regularly* used to copy urtexts, and
> original manuscripts.
>
> And to set Gregorian chant.
>

No kidding ?...
Anyway, Victor wrote: " I'm transcribing Beethoven Symphonies [...]", so I
suppose it's not an urtext edition.
It was just a simple remark, nothing else.
(Lots of late 18th-19th century edition have this type of notation for
paper size issues.)
Plus, I'd be surprised if the LVB manuscript shows the same stem
direction...
Cheers,
Pierre
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Re: Bar in a Symphony by Beethoven

[Andrew Bernard]

Nevertheless, many people like to copy the old styles. It's not invalid. 
And lilypond lets you do it!


Andrew


On 11/8/19 5:22 pm, Pierre Perol-Schneider wrote:

Please note that this type of notation is outdated.

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Re: Bar in a Symphony by Beethoven

[Pierre Perol-Schneider]

Hi Victor,

Le sam. 10 août 2019 à 14:34, Víctor Manuel Ares Piñeiro via lilypond-user <
lilypond-user@gnu.org> a écrit :
[...]

> I attacg in the mail the PNG image of the bar I'm trying to replicate.
>
[...]

Please note that this type of notation is outdated.
Cheers,
Pierre

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Re: Bar in a Symphony by Beethoven

[Andrew Bernard]

Use stem up and stem down.

{
  \clef bass
  \stemUp
  b,8
  \stemDown
  b8 b b
}


I leave it as an exercise for you to check the NR (Notation Reference) 
for how to make the beam flat.


Andrew



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