Re: More than one tempo mark in a score

2018-02-14 Thread Peter Toye
Simon,

Not all that small, but there's a lot of overrides! Uncommenting the 
commented-out line moves the text back, so the Largo is correct but the Presto 
is wrong.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

\version "2.19.52"

\language "english"

global = {
  \tempo "Largo" 4=30
  s1*2
  \mark \default
  s1
  
  \tempo "Presto"
}

foo = \relative c' {
  c4 d e f |
  g f e d |
  c e g b |
  d2 c2 |
}

baz = {
  R1*4
}


\layout {
  \context {
\name "MarkLine"
\type "Engraver_group"
\consists Output_property_engraver
\consists Axis_group_engraver
\consists Mark_engraver
\consists Metronome_mark_engraver
\override RehearsalMark.extra-spacing-width = #'(0 . 1)
\override MetronomeMark.extra-spacing-width = #'(0.5 . 0)
\override VerticalAxisGroup.minimum-Y-extent = #'(-2 . 2)
\override VerticalAxisGroup.staff-staff-spacing =
#'((basic-distance . 0)
   (minimum-distance . 0)
   (padding . 1)
   (stretchability . 3))
%\override MetronomeMark.X-offset = #-5
  }
  \context {
\Score
\remove Mark_engraver
\remove Metronome_mark_engraver
\accepts MarkLine
  }
}


\score {
  <<
\new MarkLine \global
\new Staff << \global \foo >>
  >>
}


-
Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 3:25:17 PM, you wrote:

> On 14.02.2018 13:34, ptoye wrote:
>> the Largo metronome mark is too
>> far to the right as it seems to be aligned to the first silent note rather
>> than the clef or time signature.

> That seems like a bug to me – I think the MetronomeMark should be 
> aligned the same no matter whether it’s in a context of its own or not.
> I suspect it’s also possible to override to which grob it is aligned, 
> but those overrides are complicated… can’t look it up right now.
> Can you give a minimal example?

> Best, Simon___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


Re: More than one tempo mark in a score

2018-02-14 Thread Simon Albrecht

On 14.02.2018 13:34, ptoye wrote:

the Largo metronome mark is too
far to the right as it seems to be aligned to the first silent note rather
than the clef or time signature.


That seems like a bug to me – I think the MetronomeMark should be 
aligned the same no matter whether it’s in a context of its own or not. 
I suspect it’s also possible to override to which grob it is aligned, 
but those overrides are complicated… can’t look it up right now.

Can you give a minimal example?

Best, Simon

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


Re: More than one tempo mark in a score

2018-02-14 Thread David Kastrup
Peter Toye  writes:

> The Internals Reference (or the bits that I've read) doesn't have any
> music examples.

Yes, it's autogenerated.  It does have an index, and Emacs is pretty
good at navigating via the index.

> And rather oddly, I've never used Emacs.

Well, it's gotten easier since your earlier computing days and more
discoverable.  XEmacs, the GUI and user friendly fork, is essentially
dead since it hasn't kept up.

When a snail goes on for 40 years, it might outrun a lot of sprinters.
I'm not saying that I expect you to know Emacs.  I am just saying that
you are in a better position trying to work with it than others are, and
this decade is a greater decade to do so than the previous were.

That's all.  And even used solely as a LilyPond document reader, it's
great.

-- 
David Kastrup

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


Re: More than one tempo mark in a score

2018-02-14 Thread Peter Toye
David,

The Internals Reference (or the bits that I've read) doesn't have any music 
examples. And rather oddly, I've never used Emacs.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 12:19:11 PM, you wrote:

> ptoye  writes:

>> Martin Neubauer wrote
>>> On 12/02/2018 16:42, Peter Toye wrote:

>>> Although developing lilypond itself on a windows machine might indeed be
>>> challenging, all the programming capabilities you'd need in your scores
>>> should just work anywhere lp runs. And even if you don't intend to write
>>> engravers or other somewhat complex functions from scratch yourself, a
>>> basic understanding of Scheme will certainly be helpful in the long run.
>>> You most certainly will come across solutions (in the LSR or elsewhere)
>>> that are almost right for the challenges you are faced with, but can be
>>> easily adapted to fit your needs. As these adjustments often don't
>>> require lots of skill, even a small learning effort can go a long way.
>>> And maybe curiosity will get the better of you...

>>> All the best,
>>> Martin

>> Fair enough, but my brain takes things up rather slower than it did when I
>> was learning computing (which included LISP) in the 1960s. Curiosity, yes,
>> but I find the Internals Reference manual rather heavy going. With all the
>> cross-references, you really need either a book (expensive to print it out!)
>> which you can mark up or a way of displaying 3 or 4 pages at once on a
>> terminal.

> It's a whole lot nicer to read in Info format with Emacs as Info reader.
> LilyPond's docs are actually the only Info files I know that make
> extensive use of inline images.  At least the GNOME help reader (which
> purports to deal with Info and images as well) did not scale and just
> went dead when throwing the LilyPond Info files with images at it.  But
> Emacs deals really swimmingly with it.

> Being a 1960s starter, you'd probably get along fine with it these days.___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


Re: More than one tempo mark in a score

2018-02-14 Thread ptoye
Simon Albrecht-2 wrote
> Of course it’s possible, and a very common thing to do e.g. in 
> orchestral scores. See http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=1010;.

I've compared your solution with Hwaen Ch'uqi's and they give slightly
different results on the page. As you sent it, the tempo and mark
indications are raised too far above the stave  - by adjusting the
staff-staff spacing I've mended that. But the Largo metronome mark is too
far to the right as it seems to be aligned to the first silent note rather
than the clef or time signature. When the music changes tempo without
anything else, as in the Presto it's in the right place. So you now have to
override the X-offset by a variable amount depending on exactly what is in
the lower stave at that point, which will give difficulties if there's a
line break as well. Compare these, where the vertical placement of your
extra staff has been adjusted.

 

 

And here I've done a global override of the X-offset, and now the Presto is
too far to the left.
 

So there doesn't seem to be a simple solution to the issue which is
aesthetically pleasing.

All the best,

Peter



--
Sent from: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/User-f3.html

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


Re: More than one tempo mark in a score

2018-02-14 Thread David Kastrup
ptoye  writes:

> Martin Neubauer wrote
>> On 12/02/2018 16:42, Peter Toye wrote:
>> 
>> Although developing lilypond itself on a windows machine might indeed be
>> challenging, all the programming capabilities you'd need in your scores
>> should just work anywhere lp runs. And even if you don't intend to write
>> engravers or other somewhat complex functions from scratch yourself, a
>> basic understanding of Scheme will certainly be helpful in the long run.
>> You most certainly will come across solutions (in the LSR or elsewhere)
>> that are almost right for the challenges you are faced with, but can be
>> easily adapted to fit your needs. As these adjustments often don't
>> require lots of skill, even a small learning effort can go a long way.
>> And maybe curiosity will get the better of you...
>> 
>> All the best,
>> Martin
>
> Fair enough, but my brain takes things up rather slower than it did when I
> was learning computing (which included LISP) in the 1960s. Curiosity, yes,
> but I find the Internals Reference manual rather heavy going. With all the
> cross-references, you really need either a book (expensive to print it out!)
> which you can mark up or a way of displaying 3 or 4 pages at once on a
> terminal.

It's a whole lot nicer to read in Info format with Emacs as Info reader.
LilyPond's docs are actually the only Info files I know that make
extensive use of inline images.  At least the GNOME help reader (which
purports to deal with Info and images as well) did not scale and just
went dead when throwing the LilyPond Info files with images at it.  But
Emacs deals really swimmingly with it.

Being a 1960s starter, you'd probably get along fine with it these days.

-- 
David Kastrup

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


Re: More than one tempo mark in a score

2018-02-14 Thread ptoye
Martin Neubauer wrote
> On 12/02/2018 16:42, Peter Toye wrote:
> 
> Although developing lilypond itself on a windows machine might indeed be
> challenging, all the programming capabilities you'd need in your scores
> should just work anywhere lp runs. And even if you don't intend to write
> engravers or other somewhat complex functions from scratch yourself, a
> basic understanding of Scheme will certainly be helpful in the long run.
> You most certainly will come across solutions (in the LSR or elsewhere)
> that are almost right for the challenges you are faced with, but can be
> easily adapted to fit your needs. As these adjustments often don't
> require lots of skill, even a small learning effort can go a long way.
> And maybe curiosity will get the better of you...
> 
> All the best,
> Martin

Fair enough, but my brain takes things up rather slower than it did when I
was learning computing (which included LISP) in the 1960s. Curiosity, yes,
but I find the Internals Reference manual rather heavy going. With all the
cross-references, you really need either a book (expensive to print it out!)
which you can mark up or a way of displaying 3 or 4 pages at once on a
terminal.




--
Sent from: http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/User-f3.html

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


Re: More than one tempo mark in a score

2018-02-13 Thread Martin Neubauer


On 12/02/2018 16:42, Peter Toye wrote:
> Monday, February 12, 2018, 3:22:27 PM, you wrote:
> 
> *> Hi Peter,
> 
>>> The nuisance is that you have to count all the silent bars where there 
>>> aren't any tempo changes, which is far less convenient than simply adding a 
>>> \tempo "Allegro" at the relevant place in the score!
> 
>> So you're only adding your tempo markings to one context? And now
>> you're going to manually add it to a second context? What happens if
>> you change the tempo marking? You'll have to (manually) change it in both 
>> places, yes?
> 
> *True - though in my score there are just 2 contexts (as I said, it's
> piano 4-hands)
> 
> *>> Or is there a way of moving to a particular bar number without all
> the counting?
> 
>> There are several such functions floating around: the
>> edition-engraver (EE) of course supports this kind of thing; David K
>> once wrote an "addAt" (I think?) function; and I remember at least one other 
>> attempt some years ago.
> 
> *You've lost me here - what is the EE? It's not in the Internals ref.
I think that was meant as an abbreviation for the aforementioned edition
engraver. (Which isn't part of lilypond itself, but can be found here:
https://github.com/openlilylib/edition-engraver)
> *>> That would be difficult if there are \set Score.currentBarNumber
> commands to cope with as well.
> 
>> The EE handles that situation; I don't remember if the addAt function does.
> 
>> Another possibility — essentially exactly what you're asking about
>> — would be to write a [Scheme?] engraver that checked all contexts
>> in a score for a MetronomeMark event, and added any event found to
>> all "flagged" contexts automatically. Maybe look into that option!
> 
> *My programming days are over now - it's been some time since I was a
> professional and I really don't want to have to learn yet another
> language! Also, I'm on a windows-based machine, and I gather that this
> gives difficulties with developing LP (and many other public domain
> programs).
Although developing lilypond itself on a windows machine might indeed be
challenging, all the programming capabilities you'd need in your scores
should just work anywhere lp runs. And even if you don't intend to write
engravers or other somewhat complex functions from scratch yourself, a
basic understanding of Scheme will certainly be helpful in the long run.
You most certainly will come across solutions (in the LSR or elsewhere)
that are almost right for the challenges you are faced with, but can be
easily adapted to fit your needs. As these adjustments often don't
require lots of skill, even a small learning effort can go a long way.
And maybe curiosity will get the better of you...

All the best,
Martin



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


Re: More than one tempo mark in a score

2018-02-12 Thread Peter Toye
Monday, February 12, 2018, 3:22:27 PM, you wrote:

> Hi Peter,

>> The nuisance is that you have to count all the silent bars where there 
>> aren't any tempo changes, which is far less convenient than simply adding a 
>> \tempo "Allegro" at the relevant place in the score!

> So you're only adding your tempo markings to one context? And now
> you're going to manually add it to a second context? What happens if
> you change the tempo marking? You'll have to (manually) change it in both 
> places, yes?

True - though in my score there are just 2 contexts (as I said, it's piano 
4-hands)

>> Or is there a way of moving to a particular bar number without all the 
>> counting?

> There are several such functions floating around: the
> edition-engraver (EE) of course supports this kind of thing; David K
> once wrote an "addAt" (I think?) function; and I remember at least one other 
> attempt some years ago.

You've lost me here - what is the EE? It's not in the Internals ref.

>> That would be difficult if there are \set Score.currentBarNumber commands to 
>> cope with as well.

> The EE handles that situation; I don't remember if the addAt function does.

> Another possibility — essentially exactly what you're asking about
> — would be to write a [Scheme?] engraver that checked all contexts
> in a score for a MetronomeMark event, and added any event found to
> all "flagged" contexts automatically. Maybe look into that option!

My programming days are over now - it's been some time since I was a 
professional and I really don't want to have to learn yet another language! 
Also, I'm on a windows-based machine, and I gather that this gives difficulties 
with developing LP (and many other public domain programs).

> Hope that helps,
Yes it does!
> Kieren.
> 

> Kieren MacMillan, composer
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info

===8<===End of original message text===Title: Re: More than one tempo mark in a score


Monday, February 12, 2018, 3:22:27 PM, you wrote:

> Hi Peter,

>> The nuisance is that you have to count all the silent bars where there aren't any tempo changes, which is far less convenient than simply adding a \tempo "Allegro" at the relevant place in the score!

> So you're only adding your tempo markings to one context? And now
> you're going to manually add it to a second context? What happens if
> you change the tempo marking? You'll have to (manually) change it in both places, yes?

True - though in my score there are just 2 contexts (as I said, it's piano 4-hands)

>> Or is there a way of moving to a particular bar number without all the counting?

> There are several such functions floating around: the
> edition-engraver (EE) of course supports this kind of thing; David K
> once wrote an "addAt" (I think?) function; and I remember at least one other attempt some years ago.

You've lost me here - what is the EE? It's not in the Internals ref.

>> That would be difficult if there are \set Score.currentBarNumber commands to cope with as well.

> The EE handles that situation; I don't remember if the addAt function does.

> Another possibility — essentially exactly what you're asking about
> — would be to write a [Scheme?] engraver that checked all contexts
> in a score for a MetronomeMark event, and added any event found to
> all "flagged" contexts automatically. Maybe look into that option!

My programming days are over now - it's been some time since I was a professional and I really don't want to have to learn yet another language! Also, I'm on a windows-based machine, and I gather that this gives difficulties with developing LP (and many other public domain programs).

> Hope that helps,
Yes it does!
> Kieren.
> 

> Kieren MacMillan, composer
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info
___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


Re: More than one tempo mark in a score

2018-02-12 Thread Kieren MacMillan
Hi Peter,

> The nuisance is that you have to count all the silent bars where there aren't 
> any tempo changes, which is far less convenient than simply adding a \tempo 
> "Allegro" at the relevant place in the score!

So you're only adding your tempo markings to one context? And now you're going 
to manually add it to a second context? What happens if you change the tempo 
marking? You'll have to (manually) change it in both places, yes?

> Or is there a way of moving to a particular bar number without all the 
> counting?

There are several such functions floating around: the edition-engraver (EE) of 
course supports this kind of thing; David K once wrote an "addAt" (I think?) 
function; and I remember at least one other attempt some years ago.

> That would be difficult if there are \set Score.currentBarNumber commands to 
> cope with as well.

The EE handles that situation; I don't remember if the addAt function does.

Another possibility — essentially exactly what you're asking about — would be 
to write a [Scheme?] engraver that checked all contexts in a score for a 
MetronomeMark event, and added any event found to all "flagged" contexts 
automatically. Maybe look into that option!

Hope that helps,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


Re: More than one tempo mark in a score

2018-02-12 Thread Peter Toye
Hi Kieren,

Thanks, and I agree. The nuisance is that you have to count all the silent bars 
where there aren't any tempo changes, which is far less convenient than simply 
adding a \tempo "Allegro" at the relevant place in the score! I always miscount 
by at least 1. As this particular score has only 6 such markings, but quite a 
few time signature changes it's easier to use Hwaen Ch'uqi's solution. Or is 
there a way of moving to a particular bar number without all the counting? That 
would be difficult if there are \set Score.currentBarNumber commands to cope 
with as well.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Monday, February 12, 2018, 2:58:21 PM, you wrote:

> Hi Peter,

>> I can see that with a score which has several staves needing tempo markings 
>> Simon's solution works better, but for two yours is my choice. It's a shame 
>> that LP doesn't have an automated way of doing repeating the metronome (or 
>> tempo) marks automatically.

> It does, and I use it all the time: put all your markings in a
> global variable, and then combine that global variable with each
> staff's notes. There are lots of examples on the web (docs, LSR, etc.), in 
> case you need help.

> Best,
> Kieren.
> 

> Kieren MacMillan, composer
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


Re: More than one tempo mark in a score

2018-02-12 Thread Kieren MacMillan
Hi Peter,

> I can see that with a score which has several staves needing tempo markings 
> Simon's solution works better, but for two yours is my choice. It's a shame 
> that LP doesn't have an automated way of doing repeating the metronome (or 
> tempo) marks automatically.

It does, and I use it all the time: put all your markings in a global variable, 
and then combine that global variable with each staff's notes. There are lots 
of examples on the web (docs, LSR, etc.), in case you need help.

Best,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


Re: More than one tempo mark in a score

2018-02-12 Thread Peter Toye
Hi Ch'uqi,

Thanks for this. I have to put in the tempo markings for each stave, but that's 
easier than counting all the silent bars in Simon's solution.

I can see that with a score which has several staves needing tempo markings 
Simon's solution works better, but for two yours is my choice. It's a shame 
that LP doesn't have an automated way of doing repeating the metronome (or 
tempo) marks automatically.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Sunday, February 11, 2018, 6:27:52 PM, you wrote:

> Greetings Peter,

> Well, I don't know exactly how you are setting up the code for your
> score, but something like this should do the trick:

> \score {
>   <<
> \new PianoStaff <<
>   \new Staff \with {
> \consists "Metronome_mark_engraver"
>   }
>   {
> . . .
>   }
>   \new Staff {
> . . .
>   }
> >>
> \new PianoStaff <<
>   \new Staff \with {
> \consists "Metronome_mark_engraver"
>   }
>   {
> . . .
>   }
>   \new Staff {
> . . .
>   }
> >>

>   \layout {
> \context {
>   \SCORE
>   \remove "Metronome_mark_engraver"
> }
>   }
> }

> Hwaen Ch'uqi


> On 2/11/18, Peter Toye  wrote:
>> Is it possible to force a score to put tempo markings above more than the
>> top line? I'd like to put the tempo changes above both of the piano parts in
>> a duet, so the secondo player changes tempo at the same time as the primo
>> when sight-reading. I've looked through the snippets and the internals
>> manuals and can't see anything (which probably means I've been looking in
>> the wrong place).


>> Regards,

>> Peter
>> mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
>> www.ptoye.com___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


Re: More than one tempo mark in a score

2018-02-11 Thread Peter Toye
Simon,

Thanks. I know it's a common idea. Should be in the Notation manual IMHO.

If the snippet name has mentioned tempo rather than rehearsal marks I'd have 
found it!

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Sunday, February 11, 2018, 6:13:40 PM, you wrote:

> On 11.02.2018 19:00, Peter Toye wrote:
>> More than one tempo mark in a score Is it possible to force a score to 
>> put tempo markings above more than the top line? I'd like to put the 
>> tempo changes above both of the piano parts in a duet, so the secondo 
>> player changes tempo at the same time as the primo when sight-reading. 
>> I've looked through the snippets and the internals manuals and can't 
>> see anything (which probably means I've been looking in the wrong place).

> Of course it’s possible, and a very common thing to do e.g. in 
> orchestral scores. See .

> Best, Simon___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


Re: More than one tempo mark in a score

2018-02-11 Thread Hwaen Ch'uqi
Greetings Peter,

Well, I don't know exactly how you are setting up the code for your
score, but something like this should do the trick:

\score {
  <<
\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff \with {
\consists "Metronome_mark_engraver"
  }
  {
. . .
  }
  \new Staff {
. . .
  }
>>
\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff \with {
\consists "Metronome_mark_engraver"
  }
  {
. . .
  }
  \new Staff {
. . .
  }
>>
  >>
  \layout {
\context {
  \SCORE
  \remove "Metronome_mark_engraver"
}
  }
}

Hwaen Ch'uqi


On 2/11/18, Peter Toye  wrote:
> Is it possible to force a score to put tempo markings above more than the
> top line? I'd like to put the tempo changes above both of the piano parts in
> a duet, so the secondo player changes tempo at the same time as the primo
> when sight-reading. I've looked through the snippets and the internals
> manuals and can't see anything (which probably means I've been looking in
> the wrong place).
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
> mailto:lilyp...@ptoye.com
> www.ptoye.com

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user


Re: More than one tempo mark in a score

2018-02-11 Thread Simon Albrecht

On 11.02.2018 19:00, Peter Toye wrote:
More than one tempo mark in a score Is it possible to force a score to 
put tempo markings above more than the top line? I'd like to put the 
tempo changes above both of the piano parts in a duet, so the secondo 
player changes tempo at the same time as the primo when sight-reading. 
I've looked through the snippets and the internals manuals and can't 
see anything (which probably means I've been looking in the wrong place).


Of course it’s possible, and a very common thing to do e.g. in 
orchestral scores. See .


Best, Simon

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user