Re: Problems with polyphony (rests, dynamics, lyrics, tempo)
Am Montag, 4. April 2005 23:35 schrieb Mats Bengtsson:
> >-) What is the correct way to type-set a piece with a main part, a trio, a
> > da capo and a final coda? In particular, I need line breaks exactly where
> > the trio and the coda begins, and I also need the correct repetitions in
> > the midi file.
>
> There's no right or wrong. Use \break to get line breaks.
I'm doing that already. The problem is that the key change is still printed at
the end of the bar line, instead of at the beginning of the new line.
And the other problem with a simple \break is that it doesn't mean a clear
visual break (i.e. between the trio and the coda, which should be clearly
separated).
Another possibility that would work is a staff-break inside a line (like in
the following file, generated by abcm2ps:
http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/Vergnuegungszug.pdf
). Is this possible somehow in lilypond (2.4.x)?
> For the
> moment, there's no builtin support to handle "da capo". For the MIDI
> version, you can always make a separate \score{...} for the MIDI output
Which basically means duplicating the whole 20+ lines, and repeating all the
lyrics and dynamics assignments, as well as all tempo changes etc. Hmm, all
these .ly files are rapidly blowing up!
Cheers,
Reinhold
--
--
Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna, Austria
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
* Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at
* K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org/, KOrganizer / KPilot maintainer
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Re: Problems with polyphony (rests, dynamics, lyrics, tempo)
Many questions in the same email!
Reinhold Kainhofer wrote:
Hi Mats,
Thanks a lot for your help. I've now managed to create two songs without
problems, but for two other pieces I have deeper needs and I'm still running
into problems that I haven't yet been able to solve.
Am Donnerstag, 24. März 2005 11:30 schrieben Sie:
If you add
the following two lines to the end of your GlobalSettings, the rests
will be merged, even though you'll get some warning printouts.
GlobalSettings = {
...
\revert Rest #'direction
\revert MultiMeasureRest #'staff-position
}
It seems to work fine (is there any way to suppress these warnings?). But
there is one big problem: If you have a dotted rest (e.g. r8.), the rests
will still be combined, but the dots are not. So the r8. rest will have two
dots. See
http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/dottedrest.pdf
http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/dottedrest.ly
The \voiceOne and \voiceTwo settings also set different prefered
directions for the
dots, so try to add also
\revert Dots #'direction
and/or
\revert DotColumn #'direction
2) Since I also need the midi file, and possibly generate separate scores
for each voice, I have to add the dynamics to every voice. However, then
the piano, crescendo signs etc. appear twice, overwriting some notes (see
SchoenbrunnDuMeinTraum.ly). How can I make lilypond print out these
dynamics only once (for the staff instead of separately for each voice),
while the midi will still apply them to both voices in the staff?
The ideas described in
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2005-03/msg00063.html
should work here as well.
Okay, so I generated the dynamics separated from the actual notes. Now the
problem is that the p, the fermatas, the crescendi, etc. are drawn
immediately above the staff, even if the collide with a note!
An example of this problem can be seen in measure 4 of:
http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/ImKrapfenwaldl.pdf
http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/ImKrapfenwaldl.ly
The trick is to include the dynamics in the same Voice context as the
music, i.e. to add it in
\context Voice = sopranos { \voiceOne << \dynamik \GlobalSettings \sopMusic >> }
One way to handle the different
number of lyrics lines is described in the manual for version 2.5 at
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.5/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Other-voca
l-issues.html#Other-vocal-issues
I tried it in that file ImKrapfenwaldl (measure 21, where the soprano, tenor
and bass have "klim-p're mit den Gro-schen", while the alto has lyrics
"klim-p're mit den letz-ten Gro-schen"). It doesn't seem to work, the error
message is that the sopranoGroschen voice cannot be found or created. What am
i doing wrong here?
I don't have access to a LilyPond installation for the moment, so I
can't try, but your
input file looks OK at a first glance. You normally get warnings about a
missing voice
if you use \lyricsto with a Voice context that doesn't start from bar
1, but it should
work anyway.
Other problems I have with that piece:
-) The spacing of the notes is very uneven (caused by diffferent lengths of
the lyrics). See e.g. measure 46, which contains 4 eigth-notes, which are
spaced very uneven.
If you can show some examples of well-engraved scores where this
situation is
handled differently, I'm sure that the main hackers of LilyPond are
interested.
They are very keen to provide as good layout as possible.
-) The whole piece is space too narrow for my taste. Is there any way to
increase the horizontal spacing of the whole document.
See the previous answer. However, see
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.4/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Horizontal-spacing.html#Horizontal-spacing
-) the dot of dotted notes is too far away from the note and too near to the
next note. See e.g. measure 67 of ImKrapfenwaldl.pdf
That looks very strange. I recommend you to send a bug report to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-) What is the correct way to type-set a piece with a main part, a trio, a da
capo and a final coda? In particular, I need line breaks exactly where the
trio and the coda begins, and I also need the correct repetitions in the midi
file.
There's no right or wrong. Use \break to get line breaks. For the
moment, there's no
builtin support to handle "da capo". For the MIDI version, you can
always make a
separate \score{...} for the MIDI output or use the \tag feature.
-) The way described in
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.4/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Rehearsal-marks.html#Rehearsal-marks
to put a coda (or fermata) sign above a bar line doesn't work for me. The bar
line after measure 55 should have a fermata sign (as specified in the
tempos). (Actually I want a coda there, but since the example given in the
docu doesn't work, I didn't try to find the coda sign.)
Should work, can't provide more input without access to a running LilyPond.
-) How can I make a line
Re: Problems with polyphony (rests, dynamics, lyrics, tempo)
Hi Mats,
Thanks a lot for your help. I've now managed to create two songs without
problems, but for two other pieces I have deeper needs and I'm still running
into problems that I haven't yet been able to solve.
Am Donnerstag, 24. März 2005 11:30 schrieben Sie:
> If you add
> the following two lines to the end of your GlobalSettings, the rests
> will be merged, even though you'll get some warning printouts.
> GlobalSettings = {
> ...
> \revert Rest #'direction
> \revert MultiMeasureRest #'staff-position
> }
It seems to work fine (is there any way to suppress these warnings?). But
there is one big problem: If you have a dotted rest (e.g. r8.), the rests
will still be combined, but the dots are not. So the r8. rest will have two
dots. See
http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/dottedrest.pdf
http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/dottedrest.ly
> > 2) Since I also need the midi file, and possibly generate separate scores
> > for each voice, I have to add the dynamics to every voice. However, then
> > the piano, crescendo signs etc. appear twice, overwriting some notes (see
> > SchoenbrunnDuMeinTraum.ly). How can I make lilypond print out these
> > dynamics only once (for the staff instead of separately for each voice),
> > while the midi will still apply them to both voices in the staff?
>
> The ideas described in
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2005-03/msg00063.html
> should work here as well.
Okay, so I generated the dynamics separated from the actual notes. Now the
problem is that the p, the fermatas, the crescendi, etc. are drawn
immediately above the staff, even if the collide with a note!
An example of this problem can be seen in measure 4 of:
http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/ImKrapfenwaldl.pdf
http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/ImKrapfenwaldl.ly
> One way to handle the different
> number of lyrics lines is described in the manual for version 2.5 at
>
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.5/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Other-voca
>l-issues.html#Other-vocal-issues
I tried it in that file ImKrapfenwaldl (measure 21, where the soprano, tenor
and bass have "klim-p're mit den Gro-schen", while the alto has lyrics
"klim-p're mit den letz-ten Gro-schen"). It doesn't seem to work, the error
message is that the sopranoGroschen voice cannot be found or created. What am
i doing wrong here?
Other problems I have with that piece:
-) The spacing of the notes is very uneven (caused by diffferent lengths of
the lyrics). See e.g. measure 46, which contains 4 eigth-notes, which are
spaced very uneven.
-) The whole piece is space too narrow for my taste. Is there any way to
increase the horizontal spacing of the whole document.
-) the dot of dotted notes is too far away from the note and too near to the
next note. See e.g. measure 67 of ImKrapfenwaldl.pdf
-) What is the correct way to type-set a piece with a main part, a trio, a da
capo and a final coda? In particular, I need line breaks exactly where the
trio and the coda begins, and I also need the correct repetitions in the midi
file.
-) The way described in
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.4/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Rehearsal-marks.html#Rehearsal-marks
to put a coda (or fermata) sign above a bar line doesn't work for me. The bar
line after measure 55 should have a fermata sign (as specified in the
tempos). (Actually I want a coda there, but since the example given in the
docu doesn't work, I didn't try to find the coda sign.)
-) How can I make a line break inside a measure. In particular, in measure 56
the Trio begins inside the staff. How can I for a page break before the r8
break?
-) In measures 78 and 82, is there any way I can add an underscore until the
end of the measure (similar to a melisma, only that there is only one note in
that measure).
-) The whole measure rests in the last system are not centered inside the
measure (measures 109-111 and 115.
-) The fermatas on the rests in the last system are not drawn above the rests.
What am I doing wrong here?
The same problems (spacing much too tight for easy reading, whole measure
rests not centered, main/trio/D.C./coda structure, coda sign on the staff)
also appear in
http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/TritschTratsch.pdf
http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/TritschTratsch.ly
-) The additional problem I have there is then the key changes from a to e
(three sharps to four sharps), one would usually just write four sharp signs
for the new key. But lilypond first completely cancels the a key (three
natural signs), only to add four sharp signs immediately afterwards. See line
19 of TritschTratsch.pdf. How can I prevent this and force lilypond to skip
the natural signs.
-) In TritschTratsch.ly there is not one voice where I can assign the lyrics,
because every now and then only one voice keeps singing, all others are
quiet. So I tried the trick to change the associated
Re: Problems with polyphony (rests, dynamics, lyrics, tempo)
Reinhold Kainhofer wrote:
Hi all,
I recently started using lilypond, and now I'm type-setting two SATB songs for
our choir. I put the two files on our server (username: lily, password:
pond):
http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/~reinhold/lyprobs/
I'm using GNU LilyPond 2.4.2 on Debian linux (installed from the snapshots at
www.pedrokroeger.net)
And here are my problems:
1) How can I combine the rests of Soprano and Alto to one rest shown in the
middle of the staff? I found several suggestions (basically overriding
Voice.MultiMeasureRest's #'staff-position value), but none of them worked for
me. They simply didn't have any effect. This problem appears in both
IchHabDichLiebMeinWien.ly and SchoenbrunnDuMeinTraum.ly.
If you do change a property on the MultiMeasureRest layout object, then
it only applies to multimeasure rests, not to ordinary rests. If you add
the following two lines to the end of your GlobalSettings, the rests
will be merged, even though you'll get some warning printouts.
GlobalSettings = {
...
\revert Rest #'direction
\revert MultiMeasureRest #'staff-position
}
There have been several discussions on using the part combiner feature
in LilyPond to handle also choir music, I'm not sure how well it works
yet.
2) Since I also need the midi file, and possibly generate separate scores for
each voice, I have to add the dynamics to every voice. However, then the
piano, crescendo signs etc. appear twice, overwriting some notes (see
SchoenbrunnDuMeinTraum.ly). How can I make lilypond print out these dynamics
only once (for the staff instead of separately for each voice), while the
midi will still apply them to both voices in the staff?
The ideas described in
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2005-03/msg00063.html
should work here as well.
3) I have two stanzas (both are assigned to the soprano voice in the choir
staff), but the lyrics look too much separated vertically. How can I decrease
the spacing of two lyrics lines? (In both pieces)
See
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.4/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Vertical-spacing.html#Vertical-spacing
Since you want to change the spacing of lyrics instead of staves, you
should change Lyrics.minimumVerticalExtent instead. To find the default
value, goto Documentation -> Program Reference -> Translation ->
Contexts -> Lyrics
4) In IchHabDichLiebMeinWien.ly, I'd like the || bar after measure 31 to span
the whole choir staff. How can I do this? (Again, I'd also be able to
generate separate sheets for each voice, so this shouldn't change the notes
so much that they can be only used inside a ChoirStaff).
That's harder. If you replace the ChoirStaff by a GrandStaff not only
the || but also all normal bar lines will span the full staff. Of course
you could fiddle with the "transparent" property, but that's faily clumsy.
5) In IchHabDichLiebMeinWien.ly, the refrain is the same for both stanzas,
only one phrase shortly before the end is different. Thus, I'd like to print
the lyrics only once for both stanzas, and only have that short phrase with
two lines of lyrics (ideally centered at the baseline with a {...} brace
around so that it doesn't look like women/men's lyrics). Is this possible
somehow?
Ideally, I'd like to have 1.-2. at the beginning of the refrain, and 1. and 2.
at the beginning of the two lines of that short phrase (which should be
grouped by a { brace as mentioned above). Is this possible in lilypond?
The brace is a bit tricky, but since you can include a \markup{...} in
a lyrics line, it should be doable. One way to handle the different
number of lyrics lines is described in the manual for version 2.5 at
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.5/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Other-vocal-issues.html#Other-vocal-issues
As a workaround, currently I'm using lots of \skip4 in the second stanza until
that phrase (which means it's not vertically centered at the baseline, and it
looks like separate women/men's lyrics).
Also, for skipping the common lyrics in the refrain, using \skip2.*24 doesn't
seem to work, it only skips one note (regardless of its length). Is this a
bug?
That's the way \lyricsto works, it doesn't treat "\skip.." differently
than any other syllable. See above for a better solution.
5) How can I add a ritardando so that it also takes effect in the midi? Using
markup doesn't help in that case since that is just a visual representation,
but doesn't effect the midi.
Ritardandi in the MIDI isn't supported. The only workaround I can
think of is to insert a long series of \tempo indications in the
MIDI version.
6) How can I add a "rit. - - - - - - - - - - - - " indication, where the
dashes range until a fixed, given note? What I have in mind is the same as
the crescendo when using \setTextCresc.
Read about "Text Spanners" in the manual.
7) How can I make the tempo indications not overwrite the measure counts, the
fermatas and the dynamic symbols? This happens e.g. in
SchoenbrunnDuMeinTra
