Re: [LINK] FTTP soon normal
On 25/04/14 18:20, Stephen Loosley wrote: ... FTTP model directly contradicts statements by Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull that the telco is focusing on the Coalition’s preferred Fibre to the Node model ... In practice there may be little difference between FTTP and FTTN, due to the last 3m, in old homes. An acquaintance recently had the NBN installed in their home. The installer was unable (or unwilling) into run the fibre to the home office where the computer wass. The installer said the fibre was not flexible and so could not be bent around the tight spaces under the house. This sounds more like an excuse for not undertaking a difficult installation to me. So the fibre now terminates in a cupboard in the centre of the house, about 3m from the office. The householder is then left with the problem of how to get the data the last 3m. They are reluctant to run copper cable internally and can't easily run it under the floor, for the same reason the fibre installer did not want to go there. The householder asked me about using Ethernet over power. My initial reaction was against this, as it seems a shame to carry potentially gigabytes of data into the house on a nice clean optical cable and then try and push it over a dirty electrical cable (which might do 200 mbps). But then what other choice do they have: wireless? For old houses, perhaps NBN should adopt FTTW (Fibre to the Wall): run the fibre to where the existing phone cable enters the house and splice the NBN into the phone cable. The householder's existing phone would then operate as normal and broadband could be provided either over the same phone cable using ADSL, by Ethernet over power, or WiFi. -- Tom Worthington FACS CP, TomW Communications Pty Ltd. t: 0419496150 The Higher Education Whisperer http://blog.highereducationwhisperer.com/ PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia http://www.tomw.net.au Liability limited by a scheme approved under Professional Standards Legislation Adjunct Senior Lecturer, Research School of Computer Science, Australian National University http://cs.anu.edu.au/courses/COMP7310/ ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
Re: [LINK] FTTP soon normal
At 09:32 AM 28/04/2014, Richard Archer you wrote: Sorry to be a spoil sport, but your story about networking inside the premises has nothing to do with FTTP nor FTTN. ...R. True, Richard, but it does set up a 'last meter/yard/whatever' connection question. What is the transfer speed available throughout the home from the termination point and how would you do it? I believe my wifi is 55Mbps as I have an old router/modem. Do the newer ones carry faster data speeds? I think ethernet is a top end of 100Mbps. Is there a faster ethernet nowadays? And even if you could get faster than ethernet speed, can the devices on the end -- tablets, laptops, smart TVs, etc. -- deal with those speeds? I guess the full benefit is going to be only as fast as the end device can handle in any event, but the value to a full household is multiple devices using the wider bandwidth that will be provided and being 'future proofed' against the time that the devices catch up. Tom, have a talk with your friend about what he actually needs the speed for and if his end devices can handle it beyond ethernet speed. He may find the 55Mbps of wifi is adequate in any case. Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jw...@janwhitaker.com Sooner or later, I hate to break it to you, you're gonna die, so how do you fill in the space between here and there? It's yours. Seize your space. ~Margaret Atwood, writer _ __ _ ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
Re: [LINK] FTTP soon normal
A lot of Ethernet these days is 1000Mb/s. On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 9:43 AM, Jan Whitaker jw...@internode.on.netwrote: At 09:32 AM 28/04/2014, Richard Archer you wrote: Sorry to be a spoil sport, but your story about networking inside the premises has nothing to do with FTTP nor FTTN. ...R. True, Richard, but it does set up a 'last meter/yard/whatever' connection question. What is the transfer speed available throughout the home from the termination point and how would you do it? I believe my wifi is 55Mbps as I have an old router/modem. Do the newer ones carry faster data speeds? I think ethernet is a top end of 100Mbps. Is there a faster ethernet nowadays? And even if you could get faster than ethernet speed, can the devices on the end -- tablets, laptops, smart TVs, etc. -- deal with those speeds? I guess the full benefit is going to be only as fast as the end device can handle in any event, but the value to a full household is multiple devices using the wider bandwidth that will be provided and being 'future proofed' against the time that the devices catch up. Tom, have a talk with your friend about what he actually needs the speed for and if his end devices can handle it beyond ethernet speed. He may find the 55Mbps of wifi is adequate in any case. Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jw...@janwhitaker.com Sooner or later, I hate to break it to you, you're gonna die, so how do you fill in the space between here and there? It's yours. Seize your space. ~Margaret Atwood, writer _ __ _ ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link -- Christopher Vance ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
Re: [LINK] FTTP soon normal
On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Rachel Polanskis gr...@exemail.com.auwrote: Also, when it comes to the internal fibre link from the wall outside, we were told it is Single Mode Fibre and so is only suitable for short runs. You probably mean Multi-mode fiber, which is only good for runs up to about 500 metres (but can do more depending on the wavelengths used). Single-mode fiber is good for runs measured in the 10's of kilometres or more. Scott ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
Re: [LINK] FTTP soon normal
It's single-mode fibre, so is OK for long runs - but the installer might have been trying to use the tech-speak to justify doing a lazy installation. NBN's standards allow for around 40m of flexible fibre inside the premises from memory as a standard install - or longer if needed to replicate an existing copper telecommunications connection inside your home or business. If the homeowner wants the NTU installed somewhere that requires longer fibre run internally they are supposed to do it after confirming you'll pay for a non-standard connection fee. See http://nbnco.com.au/get-an-nbn-connection/home-and-business/connecting-fibre/fibreinstallation.html Sounds like there is a lot of snow from installers trying to get away with the fewest minutes on-site as they can get away with, irrespective of NBNCo's standards. On 28/04/2014 11:56 AM, Scott Howard wrote: On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Rachel Polanskis gr...@exemail.com.auwrote: Also, when it comes to the internal fibre link from the wall outside, we were told it is Single Mode Fibre and so is only suitable for short runs. You probably mean Multi-mode fiber, which is only good for runs up to about 500 metres (but can do more depending on the wavelengths used). Single-mode fiber is good for runs measured in the 10's of kilometres or more. Scott ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
Re: [LINK] FTTP soon normal
At 12:58 PM 28/04/2014, Paul Brooks wrote: Sounds like there is a lot of snow from installers trying to get away with the fewest minutes on-site as they can get away with, irrespective of NBNCo's standards. The new 'pink batts' scandal since the handover to the new NBNCo? They are under the pump from Uncle Mal to increase their productivity. Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jw...@janwhitaker.com Sooner or later, I hate to break it to you, you're gonna die, so how do you fill in the space between here and there? It's yours. Seize your space. ~Margaret Atwood, writer _ __ _ ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
Re: [LINK] FTTP soon normal
On 28 Apr 2014, at 12:58 pm, Paul Brooks pbrooks-l...@layer10.com.au wrote: It's single-mode fibre, so is OK for long runs - but the installer might have been trying to use the tech-speak to justify doing a lazy installation. NBN's standards allow for around 40m of flexible fibre inside the premises from memory as a standard install - or longer if needed to replicate an existing copper telecommunications connection inside your home or business. If the homeowner wants the NTU installed somewhere that requires longer fibre run internally they are supposed to do it after confirming you'll pay for a non-standard connection fee. I didn’t pay any extra fees, but I did question the above as I thought a 3m run was a bit short and given my experience with fibre in datacentres, dealt with Single Mode connections of about 30 metres. But anyway, we got what we wanted... See http://nbnco.com.au/get-an-nbn-connection/home-and-business/connecting-fibre/fibreinstallation.html Sounds like there is a lot of snow from installers trying to get away with the fewest minutes on-site as they can get away with, irrespective of NBNCo's standards. I think this is the case. The people who did my install were run off their feet at the time and it was right before the election…. rachel On 28/04/2014 11:56 AM, Scott Howard wrote: On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Rachel Polanskis gr...@exemail.com.auwrote: Also, when it comes to the internal fibre link from the wall outside, we were told it is Single Mode Fibre and so is only suitable for short runs. You probably mean Multi-mode fiber, which is only good for runs up to about 500 metres (but can do more depending on the wavelengths used). Single-mode fiber is good for runs measured in the 10's of kilometres or more. Scott ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link — Rachel Polanskis Kingswood, Greater Western Sydney, Australia gr...@exemail.com.au IT consulting, security, programming The more an answer costs, the more respect it carries. ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
Re: [LINK] FTTP soon normal
Mmmm, Most WiFi routers you buy nowadays are 380Mbs, or better, multichannel devices that can handle much more bandwidth than the old 54Mbs puppies. The default WiFi in any 'puter you buy nowadays can handle this no problems. New WiFi standards are on the horizon to take routers and PC WiFi cards to 1 Gbs ... again mainly by channel combination, but what the heck you take bandwidth any way you can get it. And 4G and other standards are already stressing the capability of mobile infrastructure to deliver, rather than phones and tablets and the like to receive. Ethernet is now hitting 10 Gbs (but I only have a 1Gbs port on the back of my 18 month old Mac) and new I/O standards like USB 3 have hit 5 Gbs, Thunderbolt 2 is 20 Gbs and there are a couple of other connector standards that are also pushing the baselines out. For practical purposes I've found USB 3 about 2/3 the effective speed of Thunderbolt ... but I haven't tested the ports with the same drives which could have a huge effect on performance (and the faster RAID drive is attached to the 10 Gbs Thunderbolt 1 port) ... so effectively there may be little between them if the same hardware is attached. That said, both are a huge and very noticeable improvement over my previous USB 2 and Firewire 3. HDMI and other multimedia standards are fairly well documented, but are already hitting the wall with some new content and resolution standards I suppose the point is that no matter what bandwidth the NBN eventually brings to the home, there are a horde of readily available and installed interface standards already in place that can more than take care of it and much much more. The problem won't be stressing the interfaces and devices, it will be the stressing of the NBN's capability to deliver. Just my 2 cents worth ... --- On 28 Apr 2014, at 9:43 am, Jan Whitaker jw...@internode.on.net wrote: At 09:32 AM 28/04/2014, Richard Archer you wrote: Sorry to be a spoil sport, but your story about networking inside the premises has nothing to do with FTTP nor FTTN. ...R. True, Richard, but it does set up a 'last meter/yard/whatever' connection question. What is the transfer speed available throughout the home from the termination point and how would you do it? I believe my wifi is 55Mbps as I have an old router/modem. Do the newer ones carry faster data speeds? I think ethernet is a top end of 100Mbps. Is there a faster ethernet nowadays? And even if you could get faster than ethernet speed, can the devices on the end -- tablets, laptops, smart TVs, etc. -- deal with those speeds? I guess the full benefit is going to be only as fast as the end device can handle in any event, but the value to a full household is multiple devices using the wider bandwidth that will be provided and being 'future proofed' against the time that the devices catch up. Tom, have a talk with your friend about what he actually needs the speed for and if his end devices can handle it beyond ethernet speed. He may find the 55Mbps of wifi is adequate in any case. Jan Melbourne, Victoria, Australia jw...@janwhitaker.com Sooner or later, I hate to break it to you, you're gonna die, so how do you fill in the space between here and there? It's yours. Seize your space. ~Margaret Atwood, writer _ __ _ ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link ___ Link mailing list Link@mailman.anu.edu.au http://mailman.anu.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/link
