Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-26 Thread Ric Wheeler
On 06/26/2010 08:34 AM, Daniel Shiels wrote: 25.06.2010 22:58, Ric Wheeler wrote: On 06/24/2010 06:06 PM, Daniel Taylor wrote: [] On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Daniel Taylor daniel.tay...@wdc.com wrote: Just an FYI reminder. The original test (2K files)

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design

2010-06-25 Thread Andi Kleen
Daniel Taylor daniel.tay...@wdc.com writes: As long as no object smaller than the disk block size is ever flushed to media, and all flushed objects are aligned to the disk blocks, there should be no real performance hit from that. The question is just how large such a block needs to be.

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-25 Thread Ric Wheeler
Wheeler; Andrew Morton; Linus Torvalds; The development of BTRFS Subject: Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs) On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Daniel Taylor daniel.tay...@wdc.com wrote: Just an FYI reminder. The original test (2K files

RE: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-24 Thread David Woodhouse
On Wed, 2010-06-23 at 20:43 -0700, Daniel Taylor wrote: There is also the issue of btrfs over RAID (which I know is not entirely sensible, but which will happen). Well, we could discourage that by merging the RAID support that's been pending for a while but I suspect Chris is a bit busy

RE: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-24 Thread Daniel Taylor
; The development of BTRFS Subject: Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs) On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Daniel Taylor daniel.tay...@wdc.com wrote: Just an FYI reminder.  The original test (2K files) is utterly pathological for disk drives

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-23 Thread Jamie Lokier
Edward Shishkin wrote: I have noticed that events in Btrfs develop by scenario not predicted by the paper of academic Ohad Rodeh (in spite of the announce that Btrfs is based on this paper). This is why I have started to grumble.. In btrfs, based on means started with the algorithm and ideas

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-23 Thread Jamie Lokier
Edward Shishkin wrote: I'll try to help, but I am rather pessimistic here: working out algorithms is something, which doesn't like timelines.. Nonsense. Working out algorithms is just work to an algorithm designer, just like programming is work to a programmer. Sure, some things are harder

RE: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-23 Thread Daniel Taylor
Just an FYI reminder. The original test (2K files) is utterly pathological for disk drives with 4K physical sectors, such as those now shipping from WD, Seagate, and others. Some of the SSDs have larger (16K0 or smaller blocks (2K). There is also the issue of btrfs over RAID (which I know is

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-23 Thread Mike Fedyk
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Daniel Taylor daniel.tay...@wdc.com wrote: Just an FYI reminder.  The original test (2K files) is utterly pathological for disk drives with 4K physical sectors, such as those now shipping from WD, Seagate, and others.  Some of the SSDs have larger (16K0 or

Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-18 Thread Edward Shishkin
Mat wrote: On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Edward Shishkin edw...@redhat.com wrote: Hello everyone. I was asked to review/evaluate Btrfs for using in enterprise systems and the below are my first impressions (linux-2.6.33). The first test I have made was filling an empty 659M (/dev/sdb2)

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-18 Thread Daniel J Blueman
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Edward Shishkin edward.shish...@gmail.com wrote: Mat wrote: On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Edward Shishkin edw...@redhat.com wrote: Hello everyone. I was asked to review/evaluate Btrfs for using in enterprise systems and the below are my first impressions

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-18 Thread Chris Mason
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 03:32:16PM +0200, Edward Shishkin wrote: Mat wrote: On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Edward Shishkin edw...@redhat.com wrote: Hello everyone. I was asked to review/evaluate Btrfs for using in enterprise systems and the below are my first impressions (linux-2.6.33).

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-18 Thread Edward Shishkin
Chris Mason wrote: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 03:32:16PM +0200, Edward Shishkin wrote: Mat wrote: On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Edward Shishkin edw...@redhat.com wrote: Hello everyone. I was asked to review/evaluate Btrfs for using in enterprise systems and the below are my

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-18 Thread Chris Mason
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 05:05:46PM +0200, Edward Shishkin wrote: Chris Mason wrote: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 03:32:16PM +0200, Edward Shishkin wrote: Mat wrote: On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Edward Shishkin edw...@redhat.com wrote: Hello everyone. I was asked to review/evaluate Btrfs for

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-18 Thread Christian Stroetmann
Chris Mason wrote: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 03:32:16PM +0200, Edward Shishkin wrote: Mat wrote: On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Edward Shishkinedw...@redhat.com wrote: Hello everyone. I was asked to review/evaluate Btrfs for using in enterprise systems and the below are my

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-18 Thread Chris Mason
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 05:21:21PM +0200, Christian Stroetmann wrote: Chris Mason wrote: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 03:32:16PM +0200, Edward Shishkin wrote: Mat wrote: On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Edward Shishkinedw...@redhat.com wrote: Hello everyone. I was asked to review/evaluate Btrfs

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-18 Thread Jamie Lokier
Edward Shishkin wrote: If you decide to base your file system on some algorithms then please use the original ones from proper academic papers. DO NOT modify the algorithms in solitude: this is very fragile thing! All such modifications must be reviewed by specialists in the theory of

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-18 Thread Edward Shishkin
Chris Mason wrote: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 05:05:46PM +0200, Edward Shishkin wrote: Chris Mason wrote: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 03:32:16PM +0200, Edward Shishkin wrote: Mat wrote: On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Edward Shishkin edw...@redhat.com wrote:

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-18 Thread Edward Shishkin
Daniel J Blueman wrote: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Edward Shishkin edward.shish...@gmail.com wrote: Mat wrote: On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Edward Shishkin edw...@redhat.com wrote: Hello everyone. I was asked to review/evaluate Btrfs for using in enterprise systems

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-18 Thread Chris Mason
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 06:22:39PM +0200, Edward Shishkin wrote: Chris Mason wrote: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 05:05:46PM +0200, Edward Shishkin wrote: Chris Mason wrote: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 03:32:16PM +0200, Edward Shishkin wrote: Mat wrote: On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Edward Shishkin

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-18 Thread Christian Stroetmann
Daniel J Blueman wrote: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Edward Shishkin edward.shish...@gmail.com wrote: Mat wrote: On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Edward Shishkinedw...@redhat.com wrote: Hello everyone. I was asked to review/evaluate Btrfs for using in enterprise

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-18 Thread Christian Stroetmann
Jamie Lokier wrote: Edward Shishkin wrote: If you decide to base your file system on some algorithms then please use the original ones from proper academic papers. DO NOT modify the algorithms in solitude: this is very fragile thing! All such modifications must be reviewed by specialists in

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-18 Thread Edward Shishkin
Jamie Lokier wrote: Edward Shishkin wrote: If you decide to base your file system on some algorithms then please use the original ones from proper academic papers. DO NOT modify the algorithms in solitude: this is very fragile thing! All such modifications must be reviewed by specialists in

Re: Btrfs: broken file system design (was Unbound(?) internal fragmentation in Btrfs)

2010-06-18 Thread Chris Mason
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 09:29:40PM +0200, Edward Shishkin wrote: Jamie Lokier wrote: Edward Shishkin wrote: If you decide to base your file system on some algorithms then please use the original ones from proper academic papers. DO NOT modify the algorithms in solitude: this is very fragile