Re: Triple parity and beyond

2013-11-27 Thread Stan Hoeppner
Late reply. This one got lost in the flurry of activity... On 11/22/2013 7:24 AM, David Brown wrote: > On 22/11/13 09:38, Stan Hoeppner wrote: >> On 11/21/2013 3:07 AM, David Brown wrote: >> >>> For example, with 20 disks at 1 TB each, you can have: >> ... >&

Re: Triple parity and beyond

2013-11-24 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 11/24/2013 5:53 PM, Alex Elsayed wrote: > Stan Hoeppner wrote: > >> On 11/23/2013 11:14 PM, John Williams wrote: >>> On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 8:03 PM, Stan Hoeppner >>> wrote: > >> >>> But I, and a number of other people I have talked to or corr

Re: Triple parity and beyond

2013-11-24 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 11/23/2013 11:19 PM, Russell Coker wrote: > On Sun, 24 Nov 2013, Stan Hoeppner wrote: >> I have always surmised that the culprit is rotational latency, because >> we're not able to get a real sector-by-sector streaming read from each >> drive. If even only one dis

Re: Triple parity and beyond

2013-11-24 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 11/23/2013 11:14 PM, John Williams wrote: > On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 8:03 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: > >> Parity array rebuilds are read-modify-write operations. The main >> difference from normal operation RMWs is that the write is always to the >> same disk. As long

Re: Triple parity and beyond

2013-11-23 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 11/23/2013 1:12 AM, NeilBrown wrote: > On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 21:34:41 -0800 John Williams >> Even a single 8x PCIe 3.0 card has potentially over 7GB/s of bandwidth. >> >> Bottom line is that IO bandwidth is not a problem for a system with >> prudently chosen hardware. Quite right. >> More like

Re: Triple parity and beyond

2013-11-22 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 11/22/2013 5:07 PM, NeilBrown wrote: > On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 16:57:48 -0600 Stan Hoeppner > wrote: > >> On 11/21/2013 1:05 AM, John Williams wrote: >>> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 10:52 PM, Stan Hoeppner >>> wrote: >>>> On 11/20/2013 8:46 PM, John Wil

Re: Triple parity and beyond

2013-11-22 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 11/22/2013 9:01 AM, John Williams wrote: > I see no advantage of RAID 15, and several disadvantages. Of course not, just as I sated previously. On 11/22/2013 2:13 AM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: > Parity users who currently shun RAID 10 for this reason will also > shun this "RAID 1

Re: Triple parity and beyond

2013-11-22 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 11/22/2013 2:13 AM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: > Hi David, > > On 11/21/2013 3:07 AM, David Brown wrote: ... >> I don't see that there needs to be any changes to the existing md code >> to make raid15 work - it is merely a raid 5 made from a set of raid1 >> pairs

Re: Triple parity and beyond

2013-11-22 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 11/21/2013 5:38 PM, John Williams wrote: > On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: >> He wrote that article in late 2009. It seems pretty clear he wasn't >> looking 10 years forward to 20TB drives, where the minimum mirror >> rebuild time will be ~18

Re: Triple parity and beyond

2013-11-22 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 11/21/2013 3:07 AM, David Brown wrote: > For example, with 20 disks at 1 TB each, you can have: All correct, and these are maximum redundancies. Maximum: > raid5 = 19TB, 1 disk redundancy > raid6 = 18TB, 2 disk redundancy > raid6.3 = 17TB, 3 disk redundancy > raid6.4 = 16TB, 4 disk redundanc

Re: Triple parity and beyond

2013-11-22 Thread Stan Hoeppner
Hi David, On 11/21/2013 3:07 AM, David Brown wrote: > On 21/11/13 02:28, Stan Hoeppner wrote: ... >> WRT rebuild times, once drives hit 20TB we're looking at 18 hours just >> to mirror a drive at full streaming bandwidth, assuming 300MB/s >> average--and that is probab

Re: Triple parity and beyond

2013-11-21 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 11/21/2013 2:08 AM, joystick wrote: > On 21/11/2013 02:28, Stan Hoeppner wrote: ... >> WRT rebuild times, once drives hit 20TB we're looking at 18 hours just >> to mirror a drive at full streaming bandwidth, assuming 300MB/s >> average--and that is probably being kind

Re: Triple parity and beyond

2013-11-21 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 11/21/2013 1:05 AM, John Williams wrote: > On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 10:52 PM, Stan Hoeppner > wrote: >> On 11/20/2013 8:46 PM, John Williams wrote: >>> For myself or any machines I managed for work that do not need high >>> IOPS, I would definitely choose triple-

Re: Triple parity and beyond

2013-11-20 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 11/20/2013 8:46 PM, John Williams wrote: > For myself or any machines I managed for work that do not need high > IOPS, I would definitely choose triple- or quad-parity over RAID 51 or > similar schemes with arrays of 16 - 32 drives. You must see a week long rebuild as acceptable... > No need t

Re: Triple parity and beyond

2013-11-20 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 11/20/2013 12:44 PM, Andrea Mazzoleni wrote: > Yes. There are still AMD CPUs sold without SSSE3. Most notably Athlon. > Instead, Intel is providing SSSE3 from the Core 2 Duo. I hate branding discontinuity, due to the resulting confusion... Athlon, Athlon64, Athlon64 X2, Athlon X2 (K10), Athlo

Re: Triple parity and beyond

2013-11-20 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 11/20/2013 10:16 AM, James Plank wrote: > Hi all -- no real comments, except as I mentioned to Ric, my tutorial > in FAST last February presents Reed-Solomon coding with Cauchy > matrices, and then makes special note of the common pitfall of > assuming that you can append a Vandermonde matrix to