Re: [PATCH v1 07/30] docs: reporting-issues: explain need for fresh vanilla kernel

2025-10-28 Thread Jonathan Corbet
Thorsten Leemhuis  writes:

> Rewrite the section that explains why a fresh kernel is needed and why
> bug reporters might have to compile one themselves for testing and
> debugging purposes.
>
> Signed-off-by: Thorsten Leemhuis 
> ---
>  .../admin-guide/reporting-issues.rst  | 141 +++---
>  1 file changed, 85 insertions(+), 56 deletions(-)
>
> diff --git a/Documentation/admin-guide/reporting-issues.rst 
> b/Documentation/admin-guide/reporting-issues.rst
> index 7dfb3ca4b3e322..2f387e8766f21d 100644
> --- a/Documentation/admin-guide/reporting-issues.rst
> +++ b/Documentation/admin-guide/reporting-issues.rst
> @@ -49,11 +49,25 @@ Step-by-step guide on reporting Linux kernel issues
>  Note: Only the steps starting with '*you must*' are strictly required -- but
>  following the others is usually in your own interest.
>  
> - * Are you facing an issue with a Linux kernel a hardware or software vendor
> -   provided? Then in almost all cases you are better off to stop reading this
> -   document and reporting the issue to your vendor instead, unless you are
> -   willing to install the latest Linux version yourself. Be aware the latter
> -   will often be needed anyway to hunt down and fix issues.
> +.. _intro_repisbs:
> +
> +* Be aware:
> +
> +  * You should report issues using a Linux kernel that is both really fresh 
> and
> +vanilla. That often means that you will have to remove software that
> +requires externally developed kernel modules and install the newest 
> upstream
> +Linux development kernel yourself.
> +
> +  * There is a decent chance you will have to report the problem by email, in
> +which case your email address will become part of public archives.
> +
> +  * You might need to patch and build your own kernel to help developers 
> debug
> +and fix the bug.
> +
> + If these three aspects sound too demanding, consider reporting the issue to
> + your Linux distributor or hardware manufacturer instead.

So nothing to object to here, but this does make me wonder who the
audience is for this document?  It seems that you are aiming at people
who do not run upstream kernels, but who want to work with upstream to
get bugs fixed...?  That seems worth saying explicitly if so.  How big
of a group is this?

Thanks,

jon



[PATCH v1 07/30] docs: reporting-issues: explain need for fresh vanilla kernel

2025-10-26 Thread Thorsten Leemhuis
Rewrite the section that explains why a fresh kernel is needed and why
bug reporters might have to compile one themselves for testing and
debugging purposes.

Signed-off-by: Thorsten Leemhuis 
---
 .../admin-guide/reporting-issues.rst  | 141 +++---
 1 file changed, 85 insertions(+), 56 deletions(-)

diff --git a/Documentation/admin-guide/reporting-issues.rst 
b/Documentation/admin-guide/reporting-issues.rst
index 7dfb3ca4b3e322..2f387e8766f21d 100644
--- a/Documentation/admin-guide/reporting-issues.rst
+++ b/Documentation/admin-guide/reporting-issues.rst
@@ -49,11 +49,25 @@ Step-by-step guide on reporting Linux kernel issues
 Note: Only the steps starting with '*you must*' are strictly required -- but
 following the others is usually in your own interest.
 
- * Are you facing an issue with a Linux kernel a hardware or software vendor
-   provided? Then in almost all cases you are better off to stop reading this
-   document and reporting the issue to your vendor instead, unless you are
-   willing to install the latest Linux version yourself. Be aware the latter
-   will often be needed anyway to hunt down and fix issues.
+.. _intro_repisbs:
+
+* Be aware:
+
+  * You should report issues using a Linux kernel that is both really fresh and
+vanilla. That often means that you will have to remove software that
+requires externally developed kernel modules and install the newest 
upstream
+Linux development kernel yourself.
+
+  * There is a decent chance you will have to report the problem by email, in
+which case your email address will become part of public archives.
+
+  * You might need to patch and build your own kernel to help developers debug
+and fix the bug.
+
+ If these three aspects sound too demanding, consider reporting the issue to
+ your Linux distributor or hardware manufacturer instead.
+
+ [:ref:`details `]
 
  * Perform a rough search for existing reports with your favorite internet
search engine; additionally, check the archives of the `Linux Kernel Mailing
@@ -265,57 +279,72 @@ With that off the table, find below details for the steps 
from the detailed
 guide on reporting issues to the Linux kernel developers.
 
 
-Make sure you're using the upstream Linux kernel
-
-
-   *Are you facing an issue with a Linux kernel a hardware or software vendor
-   provided? Then in almost all cases you are better off to stop reading this
-   document and reporting the issue to your vendor instead, unless you are
-   willing to install the latest Linux version yourself. Be aware the latter
-   will often be needed anyway to hunt down and fix issues.*
-
-Like most programmers, Linux kernel developers don't like to spend time dealing
-with reports for issues that don't even happen with their current code. It's
-just a waste everybody's time, especially yours. Unfortunately such situations
-easily happen when it comes to the kernel and often leads to frustration on 
both
-sides. That's because almost all Linux-based kernels pre-installed on devices
-(Computers, Laptops, Smartphones, Routers, …) and most shipped by Linux
-distributors are quite distant from the official Linux kernel as distributed by
-kernel.org: these kernels from these vendors are often ancient from the point 
of
-Linux development or heavily modified, often both.
-
-Most of these vendor kernels are quite unsuitable for reporting issues to the
-Linux kernel developers: an issue you face with one of them might have been
-fixed by the Linux kernel developers months or years ago already; additionally,
-the modifications and enhancements by the vendor might be causing the issue you
-face, even if they look small or totally unrelated. That's why you should 
report
-issues with these kernels to the vendor. Its developers should look into the
-report and, in case it turns out to be an upstream issue, fix it directly
-upstream or forward the report there. In practice that often does not work out
-or might not what you want. You thus might want to consider circumventing the
-vendor by installing the very latest Linux kernel core yourself. If that's an
-option for you move ahead in this process, as a later step in this guide will
-explain how to do that once it rules out other potential causes for your issue.
-
-Note, the previous paragraph is starting with the word 'most', as sometimes
-developers in fact are willing to handle reports about issues occurring with
-vendor kernels. If they do in the end highly depends on the developers and the
-issue in question. Your chances are quite good if the distributor applied only
-small modifications to a kernel based on a recent Linux version; that for
-example often holds true for the mainline kernels shipped by Debian GNU/Linux
-Sid or Fedora Rawhide. Some developers will also accept reports about issues
-with kernels from distributions shipping the latest stable kernel, as long as
-it's only slightly modified; that