> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:45:49 +0300
> From: Nadav Har'El
> Cc: Dotan Cohen , shac...@shemesh.biz,
> linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012, Eli Zaretskii wrote about "Re: Linux HTML mail agent
> with RTL and LTR paragraph explicit support"
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012, Eli Zaretskii wrote about "Re: Linux HTML mail agent with
RTL and LTR paragraph explicit support":
> In a nutshell, a paragraph is delimited by hard newlines (which could
> be some sequence of characters such as CRLF, or something else,
> depending o
> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 00:51:01 +0300
> From: Dotan Cohen
> Cc: shac...@shemesh.biz, linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>
> > Emacs does TRT with these two paragraphs.
>
> What is TRT?
The Right Thing.
___
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On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 10:17 PM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
> On 06/26/2012 11:34 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Shachar Shemesh
> wrote:
>
> If you want your Hebrew email to appear as you have written it, you need
> to send it in HTML.
>
> I would like to see an example
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:28:13 +0300
>> From: Dotan Cohen
>> Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>>
>> I never quoted any standard nor made any claim as to what the standard
>> says. I only asked for clarification. In any case I tried to get past
>
> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 22:17:27 +0300
> From: Shachar Shemesh
> Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>
> > I would like to see an example of Hebrew mail that you believe cannot
> > be represented in plain text, under the conditions that such a mail
> > could be represented in plain text had it been writt
On 06/26/2012 11:34 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
>> If you want your Hebrew email to appear as you have written it, you need
>> to send it in HTML.
>>
> I would like to see an example of Hebrew mail that you believe cannot
> be represented in pla
> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:28:13 +0300
> From: Dotan Cohen
> Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>
> I never quoted any standard nor made any claim as to what the standard
> says. I only asked for clarification. In any case I tried to get past
> the issue of what designates the end of a paragraph as quic
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:28 AM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
> If you want your Hebrew email to appear as you have written it, you need
> to send it in HTML.
>
I would like to see an example of Hebrew mail that you believe cannot
be represented in plain text, under the conditions that such a mail
coul
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:02 PM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
> On 06/25/2012 06:21 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote:
>> Schachar, I before addressing the issue at hand, I would like to state
>> an observation. When I reply to your mail, all text is of the same
>> quote level. That is, there is a single > at the b
> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 04:28:33 +0300
> From: Shachar Shemesh
> Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>
> > no standard really specified what in a text file is a
> > "paragraph".
> And lucky for you that they don't. Even with the simple case of a plain
> text file, a paragraph is defined differently depe
> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 04:12:01 +0300
> From: Shachar Shemesh
> CC: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>
> On 06/25/2012 09:56 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> >> Outlook employs a higher level protocol. It is "all paragraphs are LTR,
> >> unless the user presses CTRL+RIGHT SHIFT, in which case all paragraphs
>
> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 23:22:03 +0300
> From: Nadav Har'El
>
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012, Shachar Shemesh wrote about "Re: Linux HTML mail agent
> with RTL and LTR paragraph explicit support":
> > I disagree completely. The embedding control characters are des
On 06/25/2012 11:22 PM, Nadav Har'El wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012, Shachar Shemesh wrote about "Re: Linux HTML mail agent
> with RTL and LTR paragraph explicit support":
>> I disagree completely. The embedding control characters are designed
>> for, well, embeddi
On 06/25/2012 09:56 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Outlook employs a higher level protocol. It is "all paragraphs are LTR,
>> unless the user presses CTRL+RIGHT SHIFT, in which case all paragraphs
>> are RTL". It is a valid, standard conforming protocol
> Again, I think such an interpretation is again
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012, Shachar Shemesh wrote about "Re: Linux HTML mail agent
with RTL and LTR paragraph explicit support":
> I disagree completely. The embedding control characters are designed
> for, well, embedding. What the standard[1] suggests, but does not
> require, is t
> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 21:00:07 +0300
> From: Shachar Shemesh
> CC: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>
> On 06/25/2012 08:13 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> >> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 20:02:48 +0300
> >> From: Shachar Shemesh
> >> Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
> >>
> >>> Therefore there is no
> >>> need for HTM
On 06/25/2012 08:13 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 20:02:48 +0300
>> From: Shachar Shemesh
>> Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>>
>>> Therefore there is no
>>> need for HTML to send RTL emails, nor is there technical need for the
>>> email client to guess.
>> Except there so no stan
> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 08:06:14 +0300
> From: Shachar Shemesh
> Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>
> What the standard[1] suggests, but does not
> require, is the use of the first strong directional character in the
> paragraph.
You are wrong, it does require that. See below.
> the standard sa
> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 20:02:48 +0300
> From: Shachar Shemesh
> Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>
> > Therefore there is no
> > need for HTML to send RTL emails, nor is there technical need for the
> > email client to guess.
> Except there so no standard, de-facto or otherwise (as far as I'm aware)
> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 18:21:25 +0300
> From: Dotan Cohen
> Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>
> So we have established that sections of text separated by newlines are
> paragraphs. Let us return to the issue. In a plain text file, as
> defined above, there does exist a method by which the author of
> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 17:19:01 +0300
> From: Shachar Shemesh
> Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>
> > \r\n, \r\n\r\n, or any other convention for a paragraph is arbitrary.
> Technically true, but both irrelevant and misleading. Misleading because
> the choice of \n or \r\n was arbitrary, but is now
On 06/25/2012 06:21 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> Schachar, I before addressing the issue at hand, I would like to state
> an observation. When I reply to your mail, all text is of the same
> quote level. That is, there is a single > at the beginning of each
> line, whether it is a line that you wrote o
> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 13:42:20 +0300
> From: Dotan Cohen
> Cc: linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>
> [...] plain text has no concept of a paragraph [...]
That's not true. The UBA explicitly defines a paragraph as chunk of
text delimited by paragraph separator characters:
Paragraphs are divided by th
Schachar, I before addressing the issue at hand, I would like to state
an observation. When I reply to your mail, all text is of the same
quote level. That is, there is a single > at the beginning of each
line, whether it is a line that you wrote or a line that I wrote.
Obviously, I am replying to
On 06/25/2012 01:42 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
>> I disagree completely. The embedding control characters are designed for,
>> well, embedding.
> Correct.
Good. But
> As plain text has no concept of a paragraph,
Well, that really depends on wh
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
> I disagree completely. The embedding control characters are designed for,
> well, embedding.
Correct. As plain text has no concept of a paragraph, using \n, \n\n,
\r\n, \r\n\r\n, or any other convention for a paragraph is arbitrary.
So if
On 06/24/2012 10:40 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 7:30 PM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
>> There is a standard way to specify paragraph directionality in emails. It is
>> done through HTML. There is a standard way in HTML to specify
>> directionality. Unless a recent proposed change t
> Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 19:30:47 +0300
> From: Shachar Shemesh
> CC: dotanco...@gmail.com, linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
>
> One of the paragraphs of this email was marked as RTL for no reason
> other than a whim. Eli will not know which it was
Of course, I do.
___
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 7:30 PM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
> There is a standard way to specify paragraph directionality in emails. It is
> done through HTML. There is a standard way in HTML to specify
> directionality. Unless a recent proposed change to HTML5 is accepted, the
> first directional cha
Actually, it would be very nice with a emacs-based mail agent that used
implicit email direction for composition, but encoded the result in
explicit html (based on the resolved directions) when sending the result.
Perhaps it may be done through org-mode. How to deal with incoming html
mail is a dif
On 06/24/2012 07:20 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 17:14:50 +0300
>> From: Shachar Shemesh
>> Cc: linux-il
>>
>> Thunderbird with the bidiui extension. Set the style to "paragraph", and
>> the directionality buttons work per paragraph
>> זו, לדוגמא, פסקה עברית בתוך מייל אנגלי.
> Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 17:14:50 +0300
> From: Shachar Shemesh
> Cc: linux-il
>
> Thunderbird with the bidiui extension. Set the style to "paragraph", and
> the directionality buttons work per paragraph
> זו, לדוגמא, פסקה עברית בתוך מייל אנגלי.
In Emacs, I don't need anything to have this par
> Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 16:10:14 +0300
> From: Dov Grobgeld
>
>- Ability to set the Bidi base direction explicitly of each paragraph.
Paragraph direction is determined by the first letter that has strong
directionality. If this is what you want, it should happen
automatically. (It does in
Thanks Shachar and Dotan,
Thinderbird with the bidiui extension seems to work great.
Dov
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
> On 06/24/2012 05:01 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Dov Grobgeld
> wrote:
>
> After having suffered with terrible o
On 06/24/2012 05:01 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Dov Grobgeld wrote:
>> After having suffered with terrible outllook web mail for sending email at
>> work for a long time, the system is finally able to accept SMTP connections.
> I suggest Thunderbird, for the following
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Dov Grobgeld wrote:
> After having suffered with terrible outllook web mail for sending email at
> work for a long time, the system is finally able to accept SMTP connections.
I suggest Thunderbird, for the following reasons:
> So I set out looking for a mail ag
After having suffered with terrible outllook web mail for sending email at
work for a long time, the system is finally able to accept SMTP
connections. So I set out looking for a mail agent that has the following
properties:
- Ability to send HTML mail.
- Ability to set the Bidi base directi
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