Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread Yedidyah Bar-David
On Sun, May 08, 2011 at 07:28:49AM +0300, Nadav Har'El wrote: On Sat, May 07, 2011, guy keren wrote about Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?: and if you have a lot of money to spend - you could consider buying an enterprise-grade SSD (e.g. from fusion I/O or from OCZ - although for your

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread Nadav Har'El
On Sat, May 07, 2011, Omer Zak wrote about Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?: I suspect that speeding up /usr won't help improve performance that much. The applications, which seem to be sluggish, deal with a lot of user data in /home. Furthermore, this user data varies a lot with time, hence it

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread Nadav Har'El
On Sun, May 08, 2011, is...@zahav.net.il wrote about Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?: I don't agree with this setup. Regular consumer drives setup with RAID to stripe are going to be much, much faster and have less problems in the long run than single SSDs at this point as well as being a better

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread shimi
On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.ilwrote: Instead of buying a huge SSD for thousands of dollars another option you might consider is to buy a relatively small SSD with just enough space to hold your / partition and swap space. Even 20 G may be enough. The

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread geoffrey mendelson
On May 8, 2011, at 9:30 AM, Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: I am considering, for my next laptop, and taking into account the fact that most laptops do not have space for two disks but do have some kind of flash memory slot (card reader) - usually SD-something, to have the OS on a (e.g.) SD

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread shimi
On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 10:02 AM, geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: One of the bad things is that standard *NIX files systems are designed with magnetic media in mind, they update the access time of files every time you open them. This is bad for files that are opened

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread Nadav Har'El
On Sun, May 08, 2011, geoffrey mendelson wrote about Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?: One of the bad things is that standard *NIX files systems are designed with magnetic media in mind, they update the access time of files every time you open them. This is bad for files that are opened

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread Nadav Har'El
On Sun, May 08, 2011, Nadav Har'El wrote about Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?: Having two hard disks will, at best case, *double* your seek time. This is Of course, I meant *half*, not *double* :-) -- Nadav Har'El|Sunday, May 8 2011, 4 Iyyar 5771

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread is123
On Sun, 08 May 2011 09:55:35 +0300 Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Sun, May 08, 2011, is...@zahav.net.il wrote about Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?: I don't agree with this setup. Regular consumer drives setup with RAID to stripe are going to be much, much faster and have

Re: Upgrading Android Under Linux

2011-05-08 Thread Dotan Cohen
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 17:08, Shachar Shemesh shac...@shemesh.biz wrote: What is NB? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nota_bene Gratias tibi ago! -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread is123
On Sun, 08 May 2011 10:02:18 +0300 geoffrey mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: One of the bad things is that standard *NIX files systems are designed with magnetic media in mind, they update the access time of files every time you open them. This is bad for files that are opened

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread is123
On Sun, 08 May 2011 10:15:30 +0300 Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Sun, May 08, 2011, Nadav Har'El wrote about Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?: Having two hard disks will, at best case, *double* your seek time. This is Of course, I meant *half*, not *double* :-) Actually

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread guy keren
On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 09:57 +0300, shimi wrote: On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: Instead of buying a huge SSD for thousands of dollars another option you might consider is to buy a relatively small SSD with just

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread guy keren
On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 09:30 +0300, Yedidyah Bar-David wrote: On Sun, May 08, 2011 at 07:28:49AM +0300, Nadav Har'El wrote: On Sat, May 07, 2011, guy keren wrote about Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?: and if you have a lot of money to spend - you could consider buying an enterprise-grade SSD

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread shimi
On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 12:01 PM, guy keren c...@actcom.co.il wrote: On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 09:57 +0300, shimi wrote: what tends to get worse after the SSD becomes full is writes, not reads. and combinations of reads and writes make things look worse (the writes slow down the reads). You're

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread geoffrey mendelson
On The rated MTBF of my specific drive is 2 million hours. If I still know my math, that's some 228 years Which is meaningless. The life expectency of a drive is closer to the length of the warranty period. Warranties are decided based upon projected return rates. The manufacturers

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread guy keren
On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 12:26 +0300, shimi wrote: On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 12:01 PM, guy keren c...@actcom.co.il wrote: On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 09:57 +0300, shimi wrote: what tends to get worse after the SSD becomes full is writes, not reads. and

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread shimi
On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 1:21 PM, guy keren c...@actcom.co.il wrote: On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 12:26 +0300, shimi wrote: On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 12:01 PM, guy keren c...@actcom.co.il wrote: do you have the ability to extract wear leveling information from your SSD? it

SSD? (Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?)

2011-05-08 Thread Gilboa Davara
On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 13:27 +0300, shimi wrote: b.t.w. IIRC when a cell dies, it does so gracefully; I.e. no data is lost, and there are spare blocks for that case... and even when they're all full, you just get to the point that you still have your data read-only. I vaguely remember I

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread Gilboa Davara
On Sat, 2011-05-07 at 15:29 +0300, Omer Zak wrote: I have a PC with powerful processor, lots of RAM and SATA hard disk. Nevertheless I noticed that sometimes applications (evolution E-mail software and Firefox[iceweasel] Web browser) have the sluggish feel of a busy system (command line

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread Gilboa Davara
On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 07:31 +, is...@zahav.net.il wrote: at this point Linux (and BSD) still aren't doing SMP as well as other OS Care to elaborate? - Gilboa ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread is123
On Sun, 08 May 2011 17:28:07 +0300 Gilboa Davara gilb...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 07:31 +, is...@zahav.net.il wrote: at this point Linux (and BSD) still aren't doing SMP as well as other OS Care to elaborate? I think it's well-known Solaris exploits multicore better

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread Gilboa Davara
On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 14:56 +, is...@zahav.net.il wrote: On Sun, 08 May 2011 17:28:07 +0300 Gilboa Davara gilb...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 07:31 +, is...@zahav.net.il wrote: at this point Linux (and BSD) still aren't doing SMP as well as other OS Care to

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread is123
On Sun, 08 May 2011 18:11:24 +0300 Gilboa Davara gilb...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 14:56 +, is...@zahav.net.il wrote: On Sun, 08 May 2011 17:28:07 +0300 Gilboa Davara gilb...@gmail.com wrote: I don't track Linux very much but I can see from conky on my boxes Linux just

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread guy keren
On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 15:28 +, is...@zahav.net.il wrote: On Sun, 08 May 2011 18:11:24 +0300 Gilboa Davara gilb...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 14:56 +, is...@zahav.net.il wrote: On Sun, 08 May 2011 17:28:07 +0300 Gilboa Davara gilb...@gmail.com wrote: I don't track

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck? [OT]

2011-05-08 Thread is123
On Sun, 08 May 2011 19:19:25 +0300 guy keren c...@actcom.co.il wrote: and how is all this related to solaris Vs. linux? solaris is *nix, at least was the last time i heard ;) Yes, you are right, but for some reason Solaris has the reputation for handling multicore better than Linux and BSD.

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread Gilboa Davara
On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 15:28 +, is...@zahav.net.il wroteŚš As I said my development experience is on a different platform with a fundamentally different design. In that system, process forking is very expensive and threading is very cheap- the opposite of the *NIX model. And there are three

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread geoffrey mendelson
On May 8, 2011, at 7:19 PM, guy keren wrote: when you say system Z - do you refer to what IBM formerly called MVS? IBM's had a lot of time to perfect it, their first multiprocessor machine was delivered in 1969. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM Occam's Razor does not apply

OT: nokia n800 for sale

2011-05-08 Thread Meir Michanie
Hi list, I have a nokia n800. If any is interested I will sell it to the best bidder. The starting price for the device is 500 shekels. thanks, Meir ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il

can't finish update: dpkg hangs installing xulrunner

2011-05-08 Thread Michael Shiloh
apt-get update hangs at Setting up xulrunner-1.9.1 I can kill this, but then I can't finish the update because it says that dpkg was interrupted. Trying to let dpkg repair with sudo dpkg --configure -a hangs setting up xulrunner so I'm stuck. Any ideas? -- Michael Shiloh

Re: can't finish update: dpkg hangs installing xulrunner

2011-05-08 Thread guy keren
On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 17:04 -0700, Michael Shiloh wrote: apt-get update hangs at Setting up xulrunner-1.9.1 I can kill this, but then I can't finish the update because it says that dpkg was interrupted. Trying to let dpkg repair with sudo dpkg --configure -a hangs

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread Omer Zak
On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 09:47 +0300, Nadav Har'El wrote: On Sat, May 07, 2011, Omer Zak wrote about Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?: I suspect that speeding up /usr won't help improve performance that much. The applications, which seem to be sluggish, deal with a lot of user data in /home.

Re: Disk I/O as a bottleneck?

2011-05-08 Thread Omer Zak
[This E-mail message is bottom-posting contrary to my usual custom.] On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 17:26 +0300, Gilboa Davara wrote: On Sat, 2011-05-07 at 15:29 +0300, Omer Zak wrote: I have a PC with powerful processor, lots of RAM and SATA hard disk. Nevertheless I noticed that sometimes

Re: can't finish update: dpkg hangs installing xulrunner

2011-05-08 Thread Michael Shiloh
On 05/08/2011 08:10 PM, guy keren wrote: On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 17:04 -0700, Michael Shiloh wrote: apt-get update hangs at Setting up xulrunner-1.9.1 I can kill this, but then I can't finish the update because it says that dpkg was interrupted. Trying to let dpkg repair with

Re: can't finish update: dpkg hangs installing xulrunner

2011-05-08 Thread guy keren
try to look back at the file, and see if this futex (0xb775e890) was acquired earlier in the strace output, and not released. these futexes are used to implement pthread mutexes, and if a an application attempts to lock the same mutex twice - it will deadlock - and you'll see it blocked on the