Re: Home made NAS
2012/12/5 Geoffrey S. Mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com: Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: All of the above is probably negligible compared to two important arguments that have already been mentioned: 1) as a home appliance there are better, more economical, and - most importantly! - quieter solutions for a modest price; 2) tinkering with such a heterogeneous system will yield invaluable experience, especially in terms of never trying anything like this for anything important. I want to point out that disk failure statistics may be less useful than one would think. The majority of hard disks came from a factory in Thailand which was wiped out by a flood about 2-3 years ago. This caused a large rise in the price of disks, and the reamining manufacturers scrambling to produce more disks from existing factories at lower prices. The price of hard disks has yet to be as low as it was. Since those new disks have not been around long enough for long term failure statistics, I would be careful using the old ones. BTW, in an unrelated discussion somewhere else two days ago, several professional sysadmins I know recommended OpenIndiana (an open source fork of Solaris) and ZFS for home NAS's. If we're going off on fs tangents, has anyone here started playing with btrfs yet? As far as I understand it supposed to be pretty stable by now but so far I am still sticking to ext4 Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 Owning a smartphone: Technology's equivalent to learning to play chopsticks on the piano as a child and thinking you're a musician. (sent to me by a friend) ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
Hello, Nadav, Instead, I decided to buy a 2-terabyte WD My Book Live for $160. For this price, I got both the 2TB hard-disk and a tiny (ARM- based server in one package. What do you mean by ARM-based server here ? I don't sure I understand. Does this product include some tiny ARM server? Do you have access to this server by telnet/ssh, and is there a BSP open source package ? I see you have ethernet connection there. I look in WD site, and I don't see that they mention an ARM based server there: http://wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=280 Can you please give a link/elaborate about the product you are talking about ? rgs DS For this price, I got both the 2TB hard-disk and a tiny (ARM-based) server in one package. On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Tue, Dec 04, 2012, David Suna wrote about Home made NAS: I have a bunch of old machines lying around which are currently just collecting dust.nbsp; I would like to collect the disks from all of them, put them together into a single server to act as a file server A couple of years I started doing something similar to what you are planning. I took an old computer, and stuck in it a bunch of hard disks I had from previous years - one was 1 terabyte, another 300 gigabyte, and a third 80 gigabytes. The computer ran Linux, and served files (mostly CDs and DVDs) on my home network with NFS and Samba. But then I realized how annoying this setup was: the computer was very big, noisy, and had to be on all the time. The old disks (especially the 80 gigabytes) were a joke, and I all three disks summed together were smaller than a just new disk I could buy. Instead, I decided to buy a 2-terabyte WD My Book Live for $160. For this price, I got both the 2TB hard-disk and a tiny (ARM-based) server in one package. The package is 10 times smaller than my old computer, nearly silent, and uses up less electricity, and came preconfigured with the server software (it runs Linux, but you don't have direct access to it). So in my opinion, unless you're completely broke, and/or treating this as nothing more than an educational experience, building a NAS out of old equipment is waste of your energy. -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 20 Kislev 5773 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |If you notice this notice, you'll notice http://nadav.harel.org.il |it's not worth noticing but is noticable. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
2012/12/5 Dan Shimshoni danshi...@gmail.com: Hello, Nadav, Instead, I decided to buy a 2-terabyte WD My Book Live for $160. For this price, I got both the 2TB hard-disk and a tiny (ARM- based server in one package. What do you mean by ARM-based server here ? I don't sure I understand. Does this product include some tiny ARM server? Do you have access to this server by telnet/ssh, and is there a BSP open source package ? I see you have ethernet connection there. I look in WD site, and I don't see that they mention an ARM based server there: http://wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=280 Can you please give a link/elaborate about the product you are talking about ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD_TV http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wd+live+debian Basically it's a disk + server to handle cifs/nfs Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו rgs DS For this price, I got both the 2TB hard-disk and a tiny (ARM-based) server in one package. On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Tue, Dec 04, 2012, David Suna wrote about Home made NAS: I have a bunch of old machines lying around which are currently just collecting dust.nbsp; I would like to collect the disks from all of them, put them together into a single server to act as a file server A couple of years I started doing something similar to what you are planning. I took an old computer, and stuck in it a bunch of hard disks I had from previous years - one was 1 terabyte, another 300 gigabyte, and a third 80 gigabytes. The computer ran Linux, and served files (mostly CDs and DVDs) on my home network with NFS and Samba. But then I realized how annoying this setup was: the computer was very big, noisy, and had to be on all the time. The old disks (especially the 80 gigabytes) were a joke, and I all three disks summed together were smaller than a just new disk I could buy. Instead, I decided to buy a 2-terabyte WD My Book Live for $160. For this price, I got both the 2TB hard-disk and a tiny (ARM-based) server in one package. The package is 10 times smaller than my old computer, nearly silent, and uses up less electricity, and came preconfigured with the server software (it runs Linux, but you don't have direct access to it). So in my opinion, unless you're completely broke, and/or treating this as nothing more than an educational experience, building a NAS out of old equipment is waste of your energy. -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 20 Kislev 5773 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |If you notice this notice, you'll notice http://nadav.harel.org.il |it's not worth noticing but is noticable. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Moish mo...@mln.co.il wrote: On 04/12/2012 21:27, E.S. Rosenberg wrote: According to research done by google and also in my experience a normal harddisk (spinner) that has functioned without failures for 3 years will generally last for a very long time Better read this article first (from 2007) http://storagemojo.com/2007/02/19/googles-disk-failure-experience/ As a word of warning, it is usually better to link to the actual paper (quite a famous one in this case), http://research.google.com/archive/disk_failures.pdf, and not to a blog about it by someone who mixes up mean and median (he is honest enough to acknowledge it after it was pointed out to him, but the text was not changed). To the point, there is very little that this particular paper says on the topic of how much more likely old disks are to die. There is a wealth of research papers on the subject, and the notion of bathtube curve (new disks failing often - the so-called infant mortality - then flat life expectancy and then old disks failing more often again) is encountered commonly. If one assumes that the OPs old disks are operational then it well may be that they have survived the infancy and have some life in them. One thing that the Google paper shows is that temperature (overheating) affects older disks more than newer ones. One may assume that a home setup in old boxes, with faulty fans, etc., this may affect reliability adversely. All of the above is probably negligible compared to two important arguments that have already been mentioned: 1) as a home appliance there are better, more economical, and - most importantly! - quieter solutions for a modest price; 2) tinkering with such a heterogeneous system will yield invaluable experience, especially in terms of never trying anything like this for anything important. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | p...@goldshmidt.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: All of the above is probably negligible compared to two important arguments that have already been mentioned: 1) as a home appliance there are better, more economical, and - most importantly! - quieter solutions for a modest price; 2) tinkering with such a heterogeneous system will yield invaluable experience, especially in terms of never trying anything like this for anything important. I want to point out that disk failure statistics may be less useful than one would think. The majority of hard disks came from a factory in Thailand which was wiped out by a flood about 2-3 years ago. This caused a large rise in the price of disks, and the reamining manufacturers scrambling to produce more disks from existing factories at lower prices. The price of hard disks has yet to be as low as it was. Since those new disks have not been around long enough for long term failure statistics, I would be careful using the old ones. BTW, in an unrelated discussion somewhere else two days ago, several professional sysadmins I know recommended OpenIndiana (an open source fork of Solaris) and ZFS for home NAS's. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 Owning a smartphone: Technology's equivalent to learning to play chopsticks on the piano as a child and thinking you're a musician. (sent to me by a friend) ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
On 2012-12-05 12:48, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: BTW, in an unrelated discussion somewhere else two days ago, several professional sysadmins I know recommended OpenIndiana (an open source fork of Solaris) and ZFS for home NAS's. Geoff Yep, I like OpenIndiana/ZFS. But, the recommended 64-bit sys a lot of RAM, kind of kills the "give the old HW new life" thing :-) new HW for that setup may be an overkill for home usage. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas-reviews/31314-wd-my-book-live-reviewed http://mybookworld.wikidot.com/mybook-live It has a 1GHz ARM and 256MB of RAM (No USB though). Udi On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Dan Shimshoni danshi...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Nadav, Instead, I decided to buy a 2-terabyte WD My Book Live for $160. For this price, I got both the 2TB hard-disk and a tiny (ARM- based server in one package. What do you mean by ARM-based server here ? I don't sure I understand. Does this product include some tiny ARM server? Do you have access to this server by telnet/ssh, and is there a BSP open source package ? I see you have ethernet connection there. I look in WD site, and I don't see that they mention an ARM based server there: http://wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=280 Can you please give a link/elaborate about the product you are talking about ? rgs DS For this price, I got both the 2TB hard-disk and a tiny (ARM-based) server in one package. On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Tue, Dec 04, 2012, David Suna wrote about Home made NAS: I have a bunch of old machines lying around which are currently just collecting dust.nbsp; I would like to collect the disks from all of them, put them together into a single server to act as a file server A couple of years I started doing something similar to what you are planning. I took an old computer, and stuck in it a bunch of hard disks I had from previous years - one was 1 terabyte, another 300 gigabyte, and a third 80 gigabytes. The computer ran Linux, and served files (mostly CDs and DVDs) on my home network with NFS and Samba. But then I realized how annoying this setup was: the computer was very big, noisy, and had to be on all the time. The old disks (especially the 80 gigabytes) were a joke, and I all three disks summed together were smaller than a just new disk I could buy. Instead, I decided to buy a 2-terabyte WD My Book Live for $160. For this price, I got both the 2TB hard-disk and a tiny (ARM-based) server in one package. The package is 10 times smaller than my old computer, nearly silent, and uses up less electricity, and came preconfigured with the server software (it runs Linux, but you don't have direct access to it). So in my opinion, unless you're completely broke, and/or treating this as nothing more than an educational experience, building a NAS out of old equipment is waste of your energy. -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 20 Kislev 5773 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |If you notice this notice, you'll notice http://nadav.harel.org.il |it's not worth noticing but is noticable. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
2012/12/5 vordoo vor...@yahoo.com: On 2012-12-05 12:48, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote: BTW, in an unrelated discussion somewhere else two days ago, several professional sysadmins I know recommended OpenIndiana (an open source fork of Solaris) and ZFS for home NAS's. Geoff Yep, I like OpenIndiana/ZFS. But, the recommended 64-bit sys a lot of RAM, kind of kills the give the old HW new life thing :-) new HW for that setup may be an overkill for home usage. These days old hw can also be 64b (Athlon64 was released almost sept. 2003 - how time flies). But if you need 64b I would just go for some Via Nano, AMD E-series or some of the Intel Atom series cpus, they have x86-64 support and except for the Atom these CPUs support out-of-order execution which also can boost performance considerably. In addition these systems are generally cheap and the electricity savings will probably cover the difference between recycling your old hw and buying a new motherboard+ram... As a side tangent: has anyone here started playing with btrfs yet? Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
On 2012-12-05 12:31, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote: As a word of warning, it is usually better to link to the actual paper (quite a famous one in this case), http://research.google.com/archive/disk_failures.pdf, and not to a blog about it by someone who mixes up mean and median (he is honest enough to acknowledge it after it was pointed out to him, but the text was not changed). As a word of warning ;-) I actually prefer the blog link as I can easily Google the original "famous paper". This way I got to read a good blog sum-up + threads on the paper too. Different strokes to earn the world. Thanks! ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Geoffrey S. Mendelson geoffreymendel...@gmail.com wrote: Since those new disks have not been around long enough for long term failure statistics, I would be careful using the old ones. The failure statistics papers I know of predate the Thai flood and so are applicable to the older disks 9to the extent that they are applicable at all). -- Oleg Goldshmidt | p...@goldshmidt.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 1:40 PM, vordoo vor...@yahoo.com wrote: As a word of warning ;-) I actually prefer the blog link as I can easily Google the original famous paper. This way I got to read a good blog sum-up + threads on the paper too. I was seriously put off by the guy's attempt to explain what MTBF was, very incorrectly. I read it, and I had read the paper. I didn't find it a good summary, but YMMV. The blog does contain a link to the paper. -- Oleg Goldshmidt | p...@goldshmidt.org ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
A few years ago I was very disappointed when I bought a WD My Book and found out that it was only able to do 3MB a sec max - real bummer. Josh On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.ilwrote: On Tue, Dec 04, 2012, David Suna wrote about Home made NAS: I have a bunch of old machines lying around which are currently just collecting dust.nbsp; I would like to collect the disks from all of them, put them together into a single server to act as a file server A couple of years I started doing something similar to what you are planning. I took an old computer, and stuck in it a bunch of hard disks I had from previous years - one was 1 terabyte, another 300 gigabyte, and a third 80 gigabytes. The computer ran Linux, and served files (mostly CDs and DVDs) on my home network with NFS and Samba. But then I realized how annoying this setup was: the computer was very big, noisy, and had to be on all the time. The old disks (especially the 80 gigabytes) were a joke, and I all three disks summed together were smaller than a just new disk I could buy. Instead, I decided to buy a 2-terabyte WD My Book Live for $160. For this price, I got both the 2TB hard-disk and a tiny (ARM-based) server in one package. The package is 10 times smaller than my old computer, nearly silent, and uses up less electricity, and came preconfigured with the server software (it runs Linux, but you don't have direct access to it). So in my opinion, unless you're completely broke, and/or treating this as nothing more than an educational experience, building a NAS out of old equipment is waste of your energy. -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 20 Kislev 5773 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |If you notice this notice, you'll notice http://nadav.harel.org.il |it's not worth noticing but is noticable. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
On Wed, Dec 05, 2012, Dan Shimshoni wrote about Re: Home made NAS: Hello, Nadav, Instead, I decided to buy a 2-terabyte WD My Book Live for $160. For this price, I got both the 2TB hard-disk and a tiny (ARM- based server in one package. What do you mean by ARM-based server here ? I don't sure I understand. Does this product include some tiny ARM server? The WD My Book Live (you can look it up on the Web...) is a small device, about twice the size of a hard disk. You plug it to the electricity, and to the network (Ethernet). Inside it it contains a hard disk (you don't need to, and can't, buy it separately), and some sort of processor running prepackaged software which serves the files with NFS or SMB, presents a Web interface, and so on. While I heard the prepackaged software is based on Linux, I never tried to hack it and modify the software or verify the type of processor. Frankly, I don't really care about the processor or software - I already have a general-purpose desktop for doing everything else, and all I need this NAS to do is NAS, which it already does well. Do you have access to this server by telnet/ssh, and is there a BSP open source package ? I have no idea. I assume that some hobbyists already managed to hack this device, but like I said, I never really cared - it already does pretty well everything I wanted to do. I see you have ethernet connection there. I look in WD site, and I don't see that they mention an ARM based server there: It obviously has *some* processor - it's a full-fleged filesystem, HTTP, SMB and NFS servers. I thought it was ARM but I'm no longer sure: according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Digital_My_Book, My Book Live uses Applied Micro APM82181 processor working at 1 GHz and has 256 MB of RAM. Apparently you're right - it's not ARM but actually, believe it or not, a type of powerpc. But who cares - the only thing important is that it runs Linux :-) A short Google search turns up that people have indeed been able to log into the Linux running on this device, http://wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=280 Can you please give a link/elaborate about the product you are talking about ? Here the link to my review on Amazon of the 2TB model: http://www.amazon.com/review/R1ABMTXISNZY6M/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm A 3 TB model is already available, and if you have patience you may get it for as low as $160 (last week on BH...). You can also get a two-disk version (with RAID support), with 4-8 TB versions (the 8 TB one was released yesterday, and contains WD's newly announced 4 TB disks). -- Nadav Har'El|Wednesday, Dec 5 2012, 21 Kislev 5773 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |You do not need a parachute to skydive. http://nadav.harel.org.il |You only need one to skydive twice. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
On 12/4/2012 10:43 AM, David Suna wrote: I have a bunch of old machines lying around which are currently just collecting dust. I would like to collect the disks from all of them, put them together into a single server to act as a file server / NAS on our home network. There would probably be a combination of IDE and SATA drives. What would you recommend as the best way to achieve this (with minimal cash outlay). The home network is a mixed Windows and Linux environment so I assume I would run Linux on the new server and provide access to the disks via SAMBA. For now the main function of the server would be to serve as a place to do backups. I have never done anything with RAID so I don't know if that is something that I should take into consideration (especially as the disks are of varying sizes). Any information, suggestions or pointers would be appreciated. I am viewing this as a learning experience (in addition to making use of old hardware for a positive purpose). Thank you all for all the useful information. The consensus seems to be that the only real value in doing this would be for the learning experience as the cost benefit does not fall in favor of using old hardware. Since that is not my priority at the moment I will give it a pass. Thanks again. -- David Suna da...@davidsconsultants.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
On 05/12/2012 12:11, E.S. Rosenberg wrote: 2012/12/5 Dan Shimshoni danshi...@gmail.com: Hello, Nadav, Instead, I decided to buy a 2-terabyte WD My Book Live for $160. For this price, I got both the 2TB hard-disk and a tiny (ARM- based server in one package. What do you mean by ARM-based server here ? I don't sure I understand. Does this product include some tiny ARM server? Do you have access to this server by telnet/ssh, and is there a BSP open source package ? I see you have ethernet connection there. I look in WD site, and I don't see that they mention an ARM based server there: http://wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=280 Can you please give a link/elaborate about the product you are talking about ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD_TV http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wd+live+debian Basically it's a disk + server to handle cifs/nfs Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו rgs DS For this price, I got both the 2TB hard-disk and a tiny (ARM-based) server in one package. On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Tue, Dec 04, 2012, David Suna wrote about Home made NAS: I have a bunch of old machines lying around which are currently just collecting dust.nbsp; I would like to collect the disks from all of them, put them together into a single server to act as a file server A couple of years I started doing something similar to what you are planning. I took an old computer, and stuck in it a bunch of hard disks I had from previous years - one was 1 terabyte, another 300 gigabyte, and a third 80 gigabytes. The computer ran Linux, and served files (mostly CDs and DVDs) on my home network with NFS and Samba. But then I realized how annoying this setup was: the computer was very big, noisy, and had to be on all the time. The old disks (especially the 80 gigabytes) were a joke, and I all three disks summed together were smaller than a just new disk I could buy. Instead, I decided to buy a 2-terabyte WD My Book Live for $160. For this price, I got both the 2TB hard-disk and a tiny (ARM-based) server in one package. The package is 10 times smaller than my old computer, nearly silent, and uses up less electricity, and came preconfigured with the server software (it runs Linux, but you don't have direct access to it). So in my opinion, unless you're completely broke, and/or treating this as nothing more than an educational experience, building a NAS out of old equipment is waste of your energy. -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 20 Kislev 5773 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |If you notice this notice, you'll notice http://nadav.harel.org.il |it's not worth noticing but is noticable. snip I use WD MyBook Duo 2x3T. http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=620 Transfer rate more than enough for HD over N-wireless network. On A side note: Above storage is used (among other devices) by two Apple Tv 2 (jb with Xbmc) and for fun, I will add a Raspberry Pi model B which cost me almost 50$ in the USA. (ATV2 cost 103$ w/tax) -- Moish ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
On 12/05/2012 08:00 AM, Moish wrote: I use WD MyBook Duo 2x3T. http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=620 Transfer rate more than enough for HD over N-wireless network. On A side note: Above storage is used (among other devices) by two Apple Tv 2 (jb with Xbmc) and for fun, I will add a Raspberry Pi model B which cost me almost 50$ in the USA. (ATV2 cost 103$ w/tax) For those going the DIY route, older PogoPlugs can often be found for between $12-$25 in the US (new from the store; they've spent the last year clearing this inventory). These things come with Linux and some software that lets you pierce firewall and access them from everywhere (which is useful), as well as some photo and video conversion software. You can reflash them with debian if you want full control. They are rock solid, completely silent, 6W maximum draw (with 4 portable USB powered drives), ARM with 128MB or 256MB (depending on model), with 1Gb ethernet and 4 USB 2.0 - perfect with 1-2TB portable drives. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
On 05/12/2012 23:55, Ori Berger wrote: On 12/05/2012 08:00 AM, Moish wrote: I use WD MyBook Duo 2x3T. http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=620 Transfer rate more than enough for HD over N-wireless network. On A side note: Above storage is used (among other devices) by two Apple Tv 2 (jb with Xbmc) and for fun, I will add a Raspberry Pi model B which cost me almost 50$ in the USA. (ATV2 cost 103$ w/tax) For those going the DIY route, older PogoPlugs can often be found for between $12-$25 in the US (new from the store; they've spent the last year clearing this inventory). These things come with Linux and some software that lets you pierce firewall and access them from everywhere (which is useful), as well as some photo and video conversion software. You can reflash them with debian if you want full control. They are rock solid, completely silent, 6W maximum draw (with 4 portable USB powered drives), ARM with 128MB or 256MB (depending on model), with 1Gb ethernet and 4 USB 2.0 - perfect with 1-2TB portable drives. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il Pogoplugs also have Sata connector on board. Support can be found in http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv5/pogoplug-v2-pinkgray. USB 2.0 is slow for a file server. The original implementation is lame to my taste. You can't really flash new OS but rather boot it from a DOK or a Sata disk. -- Moish ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Home made NAS
I have a bunch of old machines lying around which are currently just collecting dust. I would like to collect the disks from all of them, put them together into a single server to act as a file server / NAS on our home network. There would probably be a combination of IDE and SATA drives. What would you recommend as the best way to achieve this (with minimal cash outlay). The home network is a mixed Windows and Linux environment so I assume I would run Linux on the new server and provide access to the disks via SAMBA. For now the main function of the server would be to serve as a place to do backups. I have never done anything with RAID so I don't know if that is something that I should take into consideration (especially as the disks are of varying sizes). Any information, suggestions or pointers would be appreciated. I am viewing this as a learning experience (in addition to making use of old hardware for a positive purpose). Thanks in advance, -- David Suna da...@davidsconsultants.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
I've had good experience with FreeNAS (http://www.freenas.org/), but on a box with homogenous disks/controllers. YMMV, but it's definitely worth checking out. Rony On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 10:43 AM, David Suna da...@davidsconsultants.comwrote: I have a bunch of old machines lying around which are currently just collecting dust. I would like to collect the disks from all of them, put them together into a single server to act as a file server / NAS on our home network. There would probably be a combination of IDE and SATA drives. What would you recommend as the best way to achieve this (with minimal cash outlay). The home network is a mixed Windows and Linux environment so I assume I would run Linux on the new server and provide access to the disks via SAMBA. For now the main function of the server would be to serve as a place to do backups. I have never done anything with RAID so I don't know if that is something that I should take into consideration (especially as the disks are of varying sizes). Any information, suggestions or pointers would be appreciated. I am viewing this as a learning experience (in addition to making use of old hardware for a positive purpose). Thanks in advance, -- David sunada...@davidsconsultants.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Ubi dubium, ibi libertas (where there is doubt, there is freedom) ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
On 2012-12-04 10:43, David Suna wrote: I have a bunch of old machines lying around which are currently just collecting dust. I would like to collect the disks from all of them, put them together into a single server to act as a file server / NAS on our home network. There would probably be a combination of IDE and SATA drives. Make sure the TCO of running an old machine + lots of old HD's, is not more then buying a cheep green M.B. + 1or2 green HD. That said, ... What would you recommend as the best way to achieve this (with minimal cash outlay). The home network is a mixed Windows and Linux environment so I assume I would run Linux on the new server and provide access to the disks via SAMBA. Yep, you can RAID(1,5,10,6) the HD's as appropriate (i.e. see: selecting a RAID sys. on any wiki) and put LVM2 on top of that for use with SAMBA on a minimal stable Linux distro. If you need more, fancy file system btfs/zfs or iSCSI, FTP, NFS, it may be faster/better to go with a dedicated distro, checkout: OpenIndiana, FreeNas, Nexentastor, Openfiler. For now the main function of the server would be to serve as a place to do backups. I have never done anything with RAID so I don't know if that is something that I should take into consideration (especially as the disks are of varying sizes). Yes, you should select the best RAID sys for the H.D's size and condition, S.M.A.R.T is your friend. Remember RAID is not a backup! Any information, suggestions or pointers would be appreciated. I am viewing this as a learning experience (in addition to making use of old hardware for a positive purpose). For a learning experience checkout: OpenIndiana, FreeNas, Nexentastor, Openfiler ,see there implantation-points and D.I.Y. Good Luck! ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
On Tue, Dec 04, 2012, David Suna wrote about Home made NAS: I have a bunch of old machines lying around which are currently just collecting dust.nbsp; I would like to collect the disks from all of them, put them together into a single server to act as a file server A couple of years I started doing something similar to what you are planning. I took an old computer, and stuck in it a bunch of hard disks I had from previous years - one was 1 terabyte, another 300 gigabyte, and a third 80 gigabytes. The computer ran Linux, and served files (mostly CDs and DVDs) on my home network with NFS and Samba. But then I realized how annoying this setup was: the computer was very big, noisy, and had to be on all the time. The old disks (especially the 80 gigabytes) were a joke, and I all three disks summed together were smaller than a just new disk I could buy. Instead, I decided to buy a 2-terabyte WD My Book Live for $160. For this price, I got both the 2TB hard-disk and a tiny (ARM-based) server in one package. The package is 10 times smaller than my old computer, nearly silent, and uses up less electricity, and came preconfigured with the server software (it runs Linux, but you don't have direct access to it). So in my opinion, unless you're completely broke, and/or treating this as nothing more than an educational experience, building a NAS out of old equipment is waste of your energy. -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 20 Kislev 5773 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |If you notice this notice, you'll notice http://nadav.harel.org.il |it's not worth noticing but is noticable. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.ilwrote: On Tue, Dec 04, 2012, David Suna wrote about Home made NAS: I have a bunch of old machines lying around which are currently just collecting dust.nbsp; I would like to collect the disks from all of them, put them together into a single server to act as a file server A couple of years I started doing something similar to what you are planning. I took an old computer, and stuck in it a bunch of hard disks I had from previous years - one was 1 terabyte, another 300 gigabyte, and a third 80 gigabytes. The computer ran Linux, and served files (mostly CDs and DVDs) on my home network with NFS and Samba. But then I realized how annoying this setup was: the computer was very big, noisy, and had to be on all the time. The old disks (especially the 80 gigabytes) were a joke, and I all three disks summed together were smaller than a just new disk I could buy. Instead, I decided to buy a 2-terabyte WD My Book Live for $160. For this price, I got both the 2TB hard-disk and a tiny (ARM-based) server in one package. The package is 10 times smaller than my old computer, nearly silent, and uses up less electricity, and came preconfigured with the server software (it runs Linux, but you don't have direct access to it). So in my opinion, unless you're completely broke, and/or treating this as nothing more than an educational experience, building a NAS out of old equipment is waste of your energy. Unless you hook them up to a Raspberry Pi. That is silent, takes very little electricity and can probably do what you want. -- Nadav Har'El| Tuesday, Dec 4 2012, 20 Kislev 5773 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |If you notice this notice, you'll notice http://nadav.harel.org.il |it's not worth noticing but is noticable. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
On 2012-12-04 13:37, Mord Behar wrote: So in my opinion, unless you're completely broke, and/or treating this as nothing more than an educational experience, building a NAS out of old equipment is waste of your energy. Unless you hook them up to a Raspberry Pi. That is silent, takes very little electricity and can probably do what you want. Raspberry Pi takes care only of the CPU/board part not the price -in timemoney, of inefficiently running a bunch of old H.D's there controllers. In my view the small Raspberry Pi form is less significant in this case, though it is the cool thing in town. I would advocate an Arm board more similar to the W.D. Book other designs. In IL, money wise, At less then $200 you are probably better-of just baying it of the shelf, unless you need the flexibility of your personal design (the education part can be done on a VM ;-) ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
On Tue, Dec 04, 2012 at 01:37:35PM +0200, Mord Behar wrote: On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.ilwrote: On Tue, Dec 04, 2012, David Suna wrote about Home made NAS: I have a bunch of old machines lying around which are currently just collecting dust.nbsp; I would like to collect the disks from all of them, put them together into a single server to act as a file server A couple of years I started doing something similar to what you are planning. I took an old computer, and stuck in it a bunch of hard disks I had from previous years - one was 1 terabyte, another 300 gigabyte, and a third 80 gigabytes. The computer ran Linux, and served files (mostly CDs and DVDs) on my home network with NFS and Samba. But then I realized how annoying this setup was: the computer was very big, noisy, and had to be on all the time. The old disks (especially the 80 gigabytes) were a joke, and I all three disks summed together were smaller than a just new disk I could buy. Instead, I decided to buy a 2-terabyte WD My Book Live for $160. For this price, I got both the 2TB hard-disk and a tiny (ARM-based) server in one package. The package is 10 times smaller than my old computer, nearly silent, and uses up less electricity, and came preconfigured with the server software (it runs Linux, but you don't have direct access to it). So in my opinion, unless you're completely broke, and/or treating this as nothing more than an educational experience, building a NAS out of old equipment is waste of your energy. Unless you hook them up to a Raspberry Pi. That is silent, takes very little electricity and can probably do what you want. A Raspberry Pi is relatively cheap, but is certainly not the only small device around. http://linux-sunxi.org/Mele_A1000 Includes a SATA adapter and a disk enclosure (you'll have to provide your own disk). It does cost a bit more than a Pi, and the code is not in mainline yet, but it's easier to work with than a Pi. There are lots of them. -- Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's tzaf...@cohens.org.il || best tzaf...@debian.org|| friend ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
2012/12/4 vordoo vor...@yahoo.com: On 2012-12-04 13:37, Mord Behar wrote: So in my opinion, unless you're completely broke, and/or treating this as nothing more than an educational experience, building a NAS out of old equipment is waste of your energy. Unless you hook them up to a Raspberry Pi. That is silent, takes very little electricity and can probably do what you want. Raspberry Pi takes care only of the CPU/board part not the price -in timemoney, of inefficiently running a bunch of old H.D's there controllers. In my view the small Raspberry Pi form is less significant in this case, though it is the cool thing in town. I would advocate an Arm board more similar to the W.D. Book other designs. In IL, money wise, At less then $200 you are probably better-of just baying it of the shelf, unless you need the flexibility of your personal design (the education part can be done on a VM ;-) Don't forget you can hack the WD Live, or get to the linux it runs (debian) and expand it... (Unless they locked it down more recently) Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
David, FreeNAS works rather well in an environment like yours, however (a) as of version 8 it needs considerable amounts of RAM to work reasonably well (v7 could get along well with half a gig) and (b) you need either all HDDs to be of the same size or at least to have a few groups of similar size HDDs, otherwise you're gonna lose a lot of space when building the pools. For a home server with a bunch of varying size disks, you may want to take a look at unRAID. It's a rather unique solution, with a few rather unique features, for exactly this situation (different size, different age disks). Downside: for more than 3 drives, it's not free. Doron On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 10:43 AM, David Suna da...@davidsconsultants.comwrote: I have a bunch of old machines lying around which are currently just collecting dust. I would like to collect the disks from all of them, put them together into a single server to act as a file server / NAS on our home network. There would probably be a combination of IDE and SATA drives. What would you recommend as the best way to achieve this (with minimal cash outlay). The home network is a mixed Windows and Linux environment so I assume I would run Linux on the new server and provide access to the disks via SAMBA. For now the main function of the server would be to serve as a place to do backups. I have never done anything with RAID so I don't know if that is something that I should take into consideration (especially as the disks are of varying sizes). Any information, suggestions or pointers would be appreciated. I am viewing this as a learning experience (in addition to making use of old hardware for a positive purpose). Thanks in advance, -- David sunada...@davidsconsultants.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
Hi Tzafrir,
On Tue, Dec 04, 2012 at 12:33:37PM +, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
http://linux-sunxi.org/Mele_A1000
Includes a SATA adapter and a disk enclosure (you'll have to provide
your own disk). It does cost a bit more than a Pi, and the code is not
in mainline yet,
That is about to change in kernel v3.8. The patch below (and a few other
related patches) are queued for inclusion in the upcoming merge window.
http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/arm/arm-soc.git;a=commitdiff;h=3b52634f0b7adaaf2b29569025287b938b7c71a6
baruch
but it's easier to work with than a Pi.
There are lots of them.
--
http://baruch.siach.name/blog/ ~. .~ Tk Open Systems
=}ooO--U--Ooo{=
- bar...@tkos.co.il - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -
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Re: Home made NAS
Too many ways to do this but if you consider the data you are going to put on this nas valueable and the hw you are talking about is 2+yrs old then you better off buying new With old hw you can never be sure its going to come up next time and basicly nothing is promised, but for sure stuff can still work for ever with some miracle and a luck dragon.. On Dec 4, 2012 8:36 AM, E.S. Rosenberg esr+linux...@g.jct.ac.il wrote: 2012/12/4 vordoo vor...@yahoo.com: On 2012-12-04 13:37, Mord Behar wrote: So in my opinion, unless you're completely broke, and/or treating this as nothing more than an educational experience, building a NAS out of old equipment is waste of your energy. Unless you hook them up to a Raspberry Pi. That is silent, takes very little electricity and can probably do what you want. Raspberry Pi takes care only of the CPU/board part not the price -in timemoney, of inefficiently running a bunch of old H.D's there controllers. In my view the small Raspberry Pi form is less significant in this case, though it is the cool thing in town. I would advocate an Arm board more similar to the W.D. Book other designs. In IL, money wise, At less then $200 you are probably better-of just baying it of the shelf, unless you need the flexibility of your personal design (the education part can be done on a VM ;-) Don't forget you can hack the WD Live, or get to the linux it runs (debian) and expand it... (Unless they locked it down more recently) Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
2012/12/4 Baruch Shpirer bar...@shpirer.com: Too many ways to do this but if you consider the data you are going to put on this nas valueable and the hw you are talking about is 2+yrs old then you better off buying new With old hw you can never be sure its going to come up next time and basicly nothing is promised, but for sure stuff can still work for ever with some miracle and a luck dragon.. According to research done by google and also in my experience a normal harddisk (spinner) that has functioned without failures for 3 years will generally last for a very long time On Dec 4, 2012 8:36 AM, E.S. Rosenberg esr+linux...@g.jct.ac.il wrote: 2012/12/4 vordoo vor...@yahoo.com: On 2012-12-04 13:37, Mord Behar wrote: So in my opinion, unless you're completely broke, and/or treating this as nothing more than an educational experience, building a NAS out of old equipment is waste of your energy. Unless you hook them up to a Raspberry Pi. That is silent, takes very little electricity and can probably do what you want. Raspberry Pi takes care only of the CPU/board part not the price -in timemoney, of inefficiently running a bunch of old H.D's there controllers. In my view the small Raspberry Pi form is less significant in this case, though it is the cool thing in town. I would advocate an Arm board more similar to the W.D. Book other designs. In IL, money wise, At less then $200 you are probably better-of just baying it of the shelf, unless you need the flexibility of your personal design (the education part can be done on a VM ;-) Don't forget you can hack the WD Live, or get to the linux it runs (debian) and expand it... (Unless they locked it down more recently) Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Home made NAS
On 04/12/2012 21:27, E.S. Rosenberg wrote: 2012/12/4 Baruch Shpirer bar...@shpirer.com: Too many ways to do this but if you consider the data you are going to put on this nas valueable and the hw you are talking about is 2+yrs old then you better off buying new With old hw you can never be sure its going to come up next time and basicly nothing is promised, but for sure stuff can still work for ever with some miracle and a luck dragon.. According to research done by google and also in my experience a normal harddisk (spinner) that has functioned without failures for 3 years will generally last for a very long time snip Better read this article first (from 2007) http://storagemojo.com/2007/02/19/googles-disk-failure-experience/ Moish ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
