Re: dependency hell OR it should not be this hard

2019-08-12 Thread guy keren
this is software. software has bugs. software packaging only seems simple - but in fact is really not, because of the exponential amount of combinations that simply can't be exhaustively tested, and because it depends on code written by thousands of unrelated developers, that work on their

Re: dependency hell OR it should not be this hard

2019-08-12 Thread Shlomo Solomon
After more than 20 years using Linux, I have ABSOLUTELY no thoughts about moving to Windows. My point was that a new user might be daunted by dependency hell. Whether we like it or not, Windows is the de-facto OS and if we want to see people moving to Linux, it's got to be better. On Mon, 12

Re: dependency hell OR it should not be this hard

2019-08-12 Thread Jeremy Hoyland
Just to comment on your original post. Don't think for one moment that things are any better in Windows. The difference with APT issues is that there *is* something you can do about it, and ultimately, the problem is resolvable by you. In Windows things look a lot prettier, but I have often had an

Re: dependency hell OR it should not be this hard

2019-08-11 Thread Shlomo Solomon
Thanks for your VERY detailed reply. Some of it was "over my head", but relevant and true - although I personally like and use KDE despite it being quite bloated for many years now. As an aside - I got rid of KMail, Akonadi and all their "friends" years ago. It's hard to believe that an email

Re: dependency hell OR it should not be this hard

2019-08-11 Thread Steve Litt
On Sun, 11 Aug 2019 09:05:24 +0300 Shlomo Solomon wrote: > Let me start by saying that I'm not looking for a solution - I solved > my problem. I'm just angry and letting off some steam. [snip successful attempts using a ~10 step apt/dpkg witch's brew] I feel your pain. Probably we all do.

Re: dependency hell OR it should not be this hard

2019-08-11 Thread Shachar Shemesh
On 11/08/2019 9:05, Shlomo Solomon wrote: Let me start by saying that I'm not looking for a solution - I solved my problem. I'm just angry and letting off some steam. I'll do my best to defend. binations of commands such as: sudo apt-get

Re: dependency hell OR it should not be this hard

2019-08-11 Thread Tzafrir Cohen
On 11/08/2019 4:42, Ari Becker wrote: > No, it doesn't have to be that hard. Plugging NixOS: > https://nixos.org/nixos/about.html which solves this issue by making > safe rollbacks as easy as rebooting and choosing the previous immutable > system configuration. Nixos and the similar Guix indeed

Re: dependency hell OR it should not be this hard

2019-08-11 Thread Shlomo Solomon
Thanks. I'm not familair with nixos and I certainly don't want to start a discussion of which distro is better, but I will comment: 1 - IF this works as stated on the nixos site, I hope it will spread to other distros 2 - changing distros because of a problem like I had is really overkill 3 - I

Re: dependency hell OR it should not be this hard

2019-08-11 Thread Ari Becker
No, it doesn't have to be that hard. Plugging NixOS: https://nixos.org/nixos/about.html which solves this issue by making safe rollbacks as easy as rebooting and choosing the previous immutable system configuration. On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 9:06 AM Shlomo Solomon wrote: > Let me start by saying