On Saturday 04 August 2007 3:04:33 pm Stefan Richter wrote:
> Rob Landley wrote:
> > Documentation is merely one resource among many, and
> > to link _out_ you need HTML.
>
> Do you suggest HTML files in linux/Documentation?
I've thought about it, but right now Documentation is text. Converting a
Rob Landley wrote:
> Documentation is merely one resource among many, and
> to link _out_ you need HTML.
Do you suggest HTML files in linux/Documentation? I think we can follow
URIs and other references in plaintext files just fine.
(People who want clickable links in plaintext files can use pl
On Friday 03 August 2007 10:50:38 pm Greg KH wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 03, 2007 at 03:32:04PM -0400, Rob Landley wrote:
> > On Friday 03 August 2007 1:11:55 pm Randy Dunlap wrote:
> > > On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:53:06 -0400 Rob Landley wrote:
> > > > On Sunday 15 July 2007 12:28:06 pm Randy Dunlap wrote:
>
On Friday 03 August 2007 10:52:06 pm Greg KH wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 03, 2007 at 03:32:04PM -0400, Rob Landley wrote:
> > These days I'm trying to create an html index that links into
> > Documentation in a coherent order (with categories and everything), and
> > using automated tools to detect files
On Fri, Aug 03, 2007 at 03:32:04PM -0400, Rob Landley wrote:
>
> These days I'm trying to create an html index that links into Documentation
> in
> a coherent order (with categories and everything), and using automated tools
> to detect files that aren't linked to, or links that point to a file
On Fri, Aug 03, 2007 at 03:32:04PM -0400, Rob Landley wrote:
> On Friday 03 August 2007 1:11:55 pm Randy Dunlap wrote:
> > On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:53:06 -0400 Rob Landley wrote:
> > > On Sunday 15 July 2007 12:28:06 pm Randy Dunlap wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 21:56:15 -0400 Rob Landley wrote:
On Friday 03 August 2007 1:11:55 pm Randy Dunlap wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:53:06 -0400 Rob Landley wrote:
> > On Sunday 15 July 2007 12:28:06 pm Randy Dunlap wrote:
> > > On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 21:56:15 -0400 Rob Landley wrote:
> > > > On Friday 13 July 2007 11:54:41 pm Randy Dunlap wrote:
> > >
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:53:06 -0400 Rob Landley wrote:
> On Sunday 15 July 2007 12:28:06 pm Randy Dunlap wrote:
> > On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 21:56:15 -0400 Rob Landley wrote:
> > > On Friday 13 July 2007 11:54:41 pm Randy Dunlap wrote:
> > > > > If there's interest, I can push some patches to clean up
>
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:06:56 -0400, rob wrote:
> On Sunday 15 July 2007 12:46:42 pm Tsugikazu Shibata wrote:
> > On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:12:35 -0400, rob wrote:
> > > On Friday 13 July 2007 9:46:59 pm Tsugikazu Shibata wrote:
> > > > > > How about adding;
> > > > > > kernel-doc-nano-HOWTO.txt
> > >
On Monday 16 July 2007 9:17:28 pm H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> Tim Bird wrote:
> > Oooh! That's nice! I didn't notice the "nicely split up" part earlier.
> > Any chance we can get the original docbook inputs that OLS uses
> > for paper submissions? Have you asked Andrew or Craig about this?
>
> OLS u
On Monday 16 July 2007 8:31:52 pm Tim Bird wrote:
> Rob Landley wrote:
> > If you go to http://kernel.org/doc/ols you should find, nicely split up,
> > all the OLS papers from 2002-2007.
>
> Oooh! That's nice! I didn't notice the "nicely split up" part earlier.
> Any chance we can get the origina
On Sunday 15 July 2007 12:46:42 pm Tsugikazu Shibata wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:12:35 -0400, rob wrote:
> > On Friday 13 July 2007 9:46:59 pm Tsugikazu Shibata wrote:
> > > > > How about adding;
> > > > > kernel-doc-nano-HOWTO.txt
> > > >
> > > > The problem is, the generated htmdocs are in en
Tim Bird wrote:
>
> Oooh! That's nice! I didn't notice the "nicely split up" part earlier.
> Any chance we can get the original docbook inputs that OLS uses
> for paper submissions? Have you asked Andrew or Craig about this?
>
OLS uses LaTeX, not DocBook, for submissions AFAIK.
-hpa
Rob Landley wrote:
> If you go to http://kernel.org/doc/ols you should find, nicely split up, all
> the OLS papers from 2002-2007.
Oooh! That's nice! I didn't notice the "nicely split up" part earlier.
Any chance we can get the original docbook inputs that OLS uses
for paper submissions? Hav
On Sunday 15 July 2007 12:28:06 pm Randy Dunlap wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 21:56:15 -0400 Rob Landley wrote:
> > On Friday 13 July 2007 11:54:41 pm Randy Dunlap wrote:
> > > > If there's interest, I can push some patches to clean up
> > > > Documentation by moving files into subdirectories, but
>
Li Yang wrote:
Yes, I do think this is a good list for translation.
Greg,
Do you have anything to add?
There are a few documents not in the kernel tree that you
may want to translate too, if your goal is to increase the
number of kernel developers:
http://kernelnewbies.org/KernelGlossary
h
On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:12:35 -0400, rob wrote:
> On Friday 13 July 2007 9:46:59 pm Tsugikazu Shibata wrote:
> > > > How about adding;
> > > > kernel-doc-nano-HOWTO.txt
> > >
> > > The problem is, the generated htmdocs are in english. This file is about
> > > how to generate (and author) English do
On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 21:56:15 -0400 Rob Landley wrote:
> On Friday 13 July 2007 11:54:41 pm Randy Dunlap wrote:
> > > If there's interest, I can push some patches to clean up Documentation by
> > > moving files into subdirectories, but Documentation's not well-suited to
> > > link out to the web.
On Friday 13 July 2007 9:46:59 pm Tsugikazu Shibata wrote:
> > > How about adding;
> > > kernel-doc-nano-HOWTO.txt
> >
> > The problem is, the generated htmdocs are in english. This file is about
> > how to generate (and author) English documentation that won't be
> > translated. What's the point
On Friday 13 July 2007 11:54:41 pm Randy Dunlap wrote:
> > If there's interest, I can push some patches to clean up Documentation by
> > moving files into subdirectories, but Documentation's not well-suited to
> > link out to the web. (You need html for that, and it's text.)
>
> I think that you s
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:05:49 -0400 Rob Landley wrote:
> Cleaning up Documentation is on my todo list, but for this month I'm trying
> to
> integrate the existing Documentation files with things like the OLS papers,
> linux journal articles, lwn.net kernel articles, man-pages, and so on into
>
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:12:27 -0400, rob wrote:
> On Thursday 12 July 2007 10:54:46 pm Tsugikazu Shibata wrote:
> > On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:35:54 -0400, rob wrote:
> > > On Thursday 12 July 2007 9:53:54 am Li Yang-r58472 wrote:
> > > > > Fielding patches and questions sounds like plenty to me...)
> >
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:25:49 +0200, Stefan Richter said:
> Alan Cox wrote:
> > The English versions need a last updated too, that way we would know when
> > they are past their best before date (as most of them are)
>
> I've got the impression that whenever I saw a "last updated:" note in a
> docu
On Friday 13 July 2007 6:53:21 am Alan Cox wrote:
> > One thing that would be a VERY good idea is to make sure that each
> > translated document is tagged with when it was last translated, and
> > against which kernel version (using either a GIT commit id or a
>
> The English versions need a last u
On Thursday 12 July 2007 10:54:46 pm Tsugikazu Shibata wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:35:54 -0400, rob wrote:
> > On Thursday 12 July 2007 9:53:54 am Li Yang-r58472 wrote:
> > > > Fielding patches and questions sounds like plenty to me...)
> > >
> > > I do think the documentation translation is ve
On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 08:49:00PM +0800, Li Yang wrote:
> On Fri, 2007-07-13 at 11:53 +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> > > One thing that would be a VERY good idea is to make sure that each
> > > translated document is tagged with when it was last translated, and
> > > against which kernel version (using
Alan Cox wrote:
> The English versions need a last updated too, that way we would know when
> they are past their best before date (as most of them are)
I've got the impression that whenever I saw a "last updated:" note in a
documentation, this note was out of date.
--
Stefan Richter
-=-=-===
On Fri, 2007-07-13 at 11:53 +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> > One thing that would be a VERY good idea is to make sure that each
> > translated document is tagged with when it was last translated, and
> > against which kernel version (using either a GIT commit id or a
>
> The English versions need a last
On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 13:35 -0400, Rob Landley wrote:
> On Thursday 12 July 2007 9:53:54 am Li Yang-r58472 wrote:
> > > Fielding patches and questions sounds like plenty to me...)
> >
> > I do think the documentation translation is very necessary even when
> > there is a language maintainer, especi
> One thing that would be a VERY good idea is to make sure that each
> translated document is tagged with when it was last translated, and
> against which kernel version (using either a GIT commit id or a
The English versions need a last updated too, that way we would know when
they are past their
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:35:54 -0400, rob wrote:
> On Thursday 12 July 2007 9:53:54 am Li Yang-r58472 wrote:
> > > Fielding patches and questions sounds like plenty to me...)
> >
> > I do think the documentation translation is very necessary even when
> > there is a language maintainer, especially fo
On Wednesday 11 July 2007 5:53:54 pm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:13:02 EDT, Rob Landley said:
> > I wouldn't discourage a translator into Klingon if they were willing to
> > keep their translation up to date and/or it actually resulted in patches.
>
> The guys at the Klingon L
On Thursday 12 July 2007 9:53:54 am Li Yang-r58472 wrote:
> > Fielding patches and questions sounds like plenty to me...)
>
> I do think the documentation translation is very necessary even when
> there is a language maintainer, especially for the policy documents as
> HOWTO, codestyle , and etc.
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:53:54 +0800, LeoLi wrote:
> On Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:13 AM Rob Landley wrote:
> > On Wednesday 11 July 2007 10:26:30 am Li Yang wrote:
> > > There are quite a lot kernel developers for each of the popular
> > > language, AFAIK. For non-popular languages, there shouldn't
On Thursday, July 12, 2007 2:13 AM Rob Landley wrote:
> On Wednesday 11 July 2007 10:26:30 am Li Yang wrote:
> > There are quite a lot kernel developers for each of the popular
> > language, AFAIK. For non-popular languages, there shouldn't be
> > translation available in the first place.
>
> I d
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:13:02 EDT, Rob Landley said:
> I wouldn't discourage a translator into Klingon if they were willing to keep
> their translation up to date and/or it actually resulted in patches.
The guys at the Klingon Language Institute are going to have a fit - what's
the Klingon word for
On Wed, Jul 11, 2007 at 02:13:02PM -0400, Rob Landley wrote:
> > IMHO, having contribution merged into the kernel has the MAGIC to
> > attract people to work for recognition. When more and more people
> > volunteer to work on it, the documentation will be up to date magically.
>
> Obvious counter
On Wednesday 11 July 2007 10:26:30 am Li Yang wrote:
> There are quite a lot kernel developers for each of the popular
> language, AFAIK. For non-popular languages, there shouldn't be
> translation available in the first place.
I don't distinguish between "popular" and "non-popular" languages. I
On Wed, 2007-07-11 at 00:12 +0800, Rob Landley wrote:
> On Monday 09 July 2007 13:18:57 Gerrit Huizenga wrote:
> > On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:48:24 EDT, Rob Landley wrote:
> > > In regard to translating kernel messages:
> > >
> > > On Monday 09 July 2007 01:36:31 H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> > > > Kuna
Hi Rob,
On Tue, 2007-07-10 at 12:12 -0400, Rob Landley wrote:
[snip]
> > Yeah, but it seems like having a translations directory in the kernel
> > avoids that problem - anyone can update, it is a single source, no digging
> > for sites that aren't tied to the kernel, available in the distros
> >
On Tuesday 10 July 2007 14:54:15 Adrian Bunk wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2007 at 12:25:31PM -0400, Rob Landley wrote:
> >...
> > Let's look at _english_ documentation.
> >
> > If you go to http://kernel.org/doc/ols you should find, nicely split up,
> > all the OLS papers from 2002-2007. By my count,
On Tue, Jul 10, 2007 at 12:25:31PM -0400, Rob Landley wrote:
>...
> Let's look at _english_ documentation.
>
> If you go to http://kernel.org/doc/ols you should find, nicely split up, all
> the OLS papers from 2002-2007. By my count, there are 337 of them, totaling
> 61.8 megabytes when they're
On Monday 09 July 2007 14:10:07 Theodore Tso wrote:
> The idea that was tossed about was essentially printk hashes (hashed
> on message plus filename, with optional reporting of filename+line
> number), with the messaging catalog being maintained externally. Yes,
> that will be a major pain for wh
On Monday 09 July 2007 14:33:09 Adrian Bunk wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 09, 2007 at 12:48:24PM -0400, Rob Landley wrote:
> >...
> > [regarding translated documentation]
> >
> > For my part, I can't _tell_ when a given translation is out of date
> > because I can't read it, and I certainly can't update it.
On Monday 09 July 2007 13:18:57 Gerrit Huizenga wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:48:24 EDT, Rob Landley wrote:
> > In regard to translating kernel messages:
> >
> > On Monday 09 July 2007 01:36:31 H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> > > Kunai, Takashi wrote:
> > > > (1) Your kernel development proposal will be
ROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Documentation of kernel messages (Summary)
>
> In regard to translating kernel messages:
>
> On Monday 09 July 2007 01:36:31 H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> > Kunai, Takashi wrote
Hi,
On 7/9/07, H. Peter Anvin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Kunai, Takashi wrote:
> (1) Your kernel development proposal will be greatly supported by
> Japanese vendor community. At the same time, it needs support from the
> kernel communities, as well.
There is a very strong reason for the kernel
Am Dienstag, 10. Juli 2007 schrieb Satyam Sharma:
> But, I'm not sure they'd be operating against a known target -- I don't
> really know what exactly would be hashed, but if it's kernel printk()
> messages (the format string, obviously), then please remember that
> new messages would get added all
On 7/9/07, Oliver Neukum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Am Montag, 9. Juli 2007 schrieb Kunai, Takashi:
> (b)printk hashes and (c)Format strings. (a) seems difficult to get
> supports from kernel developers and (c) lacks uniqueness of each
> message. Though (b) also lacks uniqueness, adding component
O> Yep, it's going to be up to the translators to keep the message
> catalogs up to date. The gettext folks have figured out ways of doing
> fuzzy string matches, and so if you keep the external database of
> filename, line #, string, hash, and translation(s), when you go to new
> version of the k
On Mon, Jul 09, 2007 at 12:48:24PM -0400, Rob Landley wrote:
>...
> [regarding translated documentation]
>
> For my part, I can't _tell_ when a given translation is out of date because I
> can't read it, and I certainly can't update it. So I agree with Eric and I'm
> linking to sites hosting ke
On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 11:44:45AM -0400, Rob Landley wrote:
> Personally? No to the second question, which renders the first "do it
> yourself outside of the tree".
>
> Just a guess, and I don't speak for anyone else here, but I think most of us
> are waiting to see how long it takes you to lo
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 12:48:24 EDT, Rob Landley wrote:
> In regard to translating kernel messages:
>
> On Monday 09 July 2007 01:36:31 H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> > Kunai, Takashi wrote:
> > > (1) Your kernel development proposal will be greatly supported by
> > > Japanese vendor community. At the same
In regard to translating kernel messages:
On Monday 09 July 2007 01:36:31 H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> Kunai, Takashi wrote:
> > (1) Your kernel development proposal will be greatly supported by
> > Japanese vendor community. At the same time, it needs support from the
> > kernel communities, as well.
Am Montag, 9. Juli 2007 schrieb Kunai, Takashi:
> (b)printk hashes and (c)Format strings. (a) seems difficult to get
> supports from kernel developers and (c) lacks uniqueness of each
> message. Though (b) also lacks uniqueness, adding component id and/or
We have generators for hash functions that
Kunai, Takashi wrote:
> (1) Your kernel development proposal will be greatly supported by
> Japanese vendor community. At the same time, it needs support from the
> kernel communities, as well.
There is a very strong reason for the kernel community to NOT support
this: it makes it much harder to d
Hi Micheal,
This is a late response to your summary below.
First of all, there is a lot of interest in this issue among Japanese
vendor community. Recently, I have built a Japanese mailing list to
discuss this issue. I'm posting this comment resulting from such discussion.
(1) Your kernel develo
On Mon, 2007-06-25 at 11:44 -0400, Rob Landley wrote:
> On Monday 25 June 2007 09:48:41 Michael Holzheu wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Any idea, how to proceed with this topic? Do you think that any of the
> > suggested solutions for documentation / translation of kernel messages
> > will have a chance
> I find "document messages" to be a horrible idea conceptually, because I
> think
> the messages should _be_ documentation. If the message is unclear it should
> be clarified. "There's too much garbage on the floor, we should laminate it
> so we can't smell it anymore." Er, no...
"Document
On Monday 25 June 2007 09:48:41 Michael Holzheu wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Any idea, how to proceed with this topic? Do you think that any of the
> suggested solutions for documentation / translation of kernel messages
> will have a chance to be included in the kernel?
Personally? No to the second ques
Hi all,
Any idea, how to proceed with this topic? Do you think that any of the
suggested solutions for documentation / translation of kernel messages
will have a chance to be included in the kernel?
I tried to summarize the outcome of this discussion...
There are two main issues:
* Translate me
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