On Sat, 15 Sep 2007, Paul Rolland wrote:
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:15:22 +0200
Adrian Bunk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 14, 2007 at 04:54:07PM +0200, Stefan Richter wrote:
Adrian Bunk wrote:
On Sun, Sep 09, 2007 at 05:11:44PM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
Let's step back a moment and con
> - So, which criteria influence whether HPET_EMULATE_RTC should be
> enabled on x86_64 or not?
If there is one it needs to be a runtime switch anyways.
>
> - In case that there is no compelling reason to disable it if its
> dependencies are satisfied, shouldn't it rather be invisible
I take the liberty to modify the CC list.
Paul Rolland wrote:
> Stefan Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I assert that a Kconfig prompt (a visible Kconfig variable) _without_
>> help text is a bug.
>
> Here is an example from 2.6.34-rc6 :
> .config - Linux Kernel v2.6.23-rc6 Configuration
>
Hello Stefan,
On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:25:39 +0200
Stefan Richter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Paul Rolland wrote:
> > getting too much of "No help text available"
> > usually results in people no more reading the help text.
>
> I assert that a Kconfig prompt (a visible Kconfig variable) _without_
Paul Rolland wrote:
> getting too much of "No help text available"
> usually results in people no more reading the help text.
I assert that a Kconfig prompt (a visible Kconfig variable) _without_
help text is a bug.
--
Stefan Richter
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http://arcgraph.de/sr/
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Hello,
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:15:22 +0200
Adrian Bunk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2007 at 04:54:07PM +0200, Stefan Richter wrote:
> > Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > > On Sun, Sep 09, 2007 at 05:11:44PM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> > >> Let's step back a moment and consider the actual scal
Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Helge Hafting <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Randy Dunlap wrote:
>>> NOTE: ATA enables basic SCSI support; *however*,
>>> 'SCSI disk support', 'SCSI tape support', or
>>> 'SCSI CDROM support' may also be needed,
>>> depending on your hardware configuration.
>
Adrian Bunk wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2007 at 05:37:37PM +0200, Stefan Richter wrote:
>> In
>> practice, this takes too much time, hence you take an existing .config
>> (yours or somebody else's) and go from there.
>
> Kconfig let's you start with the defconfig when doing "make menuconfig"
> witho
Helge Hafting <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Randy Dunlap wrote:
>> On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:48:00 +0200 Folkert van Heusden wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Maybe it is a nice enhancement for make menuconfig to more explicitly
>>> give a pop-up or so when someone selects for example a sata controller
>>>
On Fri, Sep 14, 2007 at 05:37:37PM +0200, Stefan Richter wrote:
> Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 14, 2007 at 04:54:07PM +0200, Stefan Richter wrote:
> >> The patch which is discussed here is specifically targeted towards users
> >> who are convinced that they can migrate to different drivers wi
Adrian Bunk wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2007 at 04:54:07PM +0200, Stefan Richter wrote:
>> The patch which is discussed here is specifically targeted towards users
>> who are convinced that they can migrate to different drivers without
>> reading Kconfig help texts.
>
> Nothing about the patch is onl
On Fri, Sep 14, 2007 at 04:54:07PM +0200, Stefan Richter wrote:
> Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > On Sun, Sep 09, 2007 at 05:11:44PM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> >> Let's step back a moment and consider the actual scale and impact of the
> >> problem at hand.
> >>
> >> The vast majority of users are consume
Adrian Bunk wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 09, 2007 at 05:11:44PM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
>> Let's step back a moment and consider the actual scale and impact of the
>> problem at hand.
>>
>> The vast majority of users are consumers of pre-compiled kernels, built by
>> People With Clue(tm), who figured t
Randy Dunlap wrote:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:48:00 +0200 Folkert van Heusden wrote:
Hi,
Maybe it is a nice enhancement for make menuconfig to more explicitly
give a pop-up or so when someone selects for example a sata controller
while no 'scsi-disk' support was selected?
I know that it'
On Sun, Sep 09, 2007 at 05:11:44PM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
> Andi Kleen wrote:
>>> I can see where you're coming from, but logically, this is wrong.
>>> There's a huge slew of enterprise machines that only have DVD on SATA.
>> ... and enterprise systems don't really care about a few KB more of co
Andi Kleen wrote on 09-09-07 23:22:
When it costs 1 people half an hour to learn and correct this it
wasted 5000 hours of previous livetime.
^^ ^
Poor me. Here I am -- still waiting for my 15 minutes of fame in /this/ life...
;-)
bjd
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On 09/10/2007 08:38 AM, Stefan Richter wrote:
Nevertheless we should try to arrange the menus in a way that makes
sense to as many people as possible. The difficulty is, different
environments call for different menu layouts, as your previous example
of SATA DVD-only boxes demonstrates.
Howeve
James Bottomley wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-09-09 at 23:22 +0200, Andi Kleen wrote:
>> When it costs 1 people half an hour to learn and correct this it
>> wasted 5000 hours of previous livetime.
>>
>> Besides there is no good reason to have ever learned this imho.
>
> The process of becoming an exp
On Sun, 2007-09-09 at 23:22 +0200, Andi Kleen wrote:
> > The current setup expresses the dependencies as they exist -- OPTIONAL
> > extras, and that is a problem once a year or so, when someone builds
>
> Disk support over SCSI/SATA is hardly an "optional extra". It's more the 99+%
> case.
Usin
> The current setup expresses the dependencies as they exist -- OPTIONAL
> extras, and that is a problem once a year or so, when someone builds
Disk support over SCSI/SATA is hardly an "optional extra". It's more the 99+%
case.
> their own kernel but must learn this fact anew.
When it costs 10
Andi Kleen wrote:
I can see where you're coming from, but logically, this is wrong.
There's a huge slew of enterprise machines that only have DVD on SATA.
... and enterprise systems don't really care about a few KB more of code.
In fact you definitely want to have SATA compiled in in case you n
> I can see where you're coming from, but logically, this is wrong.
> There's a huge slew of enterprise machines that only have DVD on SATA.
... and enterprise systems don't really care about a few KB more of code.
In fact you definitely want to have SATA compiled in in case you need
to recover th
On Sat, 2007-09-08 at 18:07 +0200, Andi Kleen wrote:
> Folkert van Heusden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Maybe it is a nice enhancement for make menuconfig to more explicitly
> > give a pop-up or so when someone selects for example a sata controller
> > while no 'scsi-disk' suppor
Al Boldi wrote:
> Alan Cox wrote:
> > > I once sent a patch to make libata a submenu of scsi.
> >
> > Which is wrong
> >
> > Nakked-by: Alan Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > The general comments about moving this stuff around and making it
> > clearer what sd/sr etc are nowdays are good but hiding l
Randy Dunlap wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:44:46 +0200 Stefan Richter wrote:
>> Randy Dunlap wrote:
>>> The problem with 'select' here is that it will enable BLK_DEV_SD,
>>> but if SCSI is not enabled, it will not become enabled -- i.e.,
>>> select does not follow the dependency chain. So usuall
Andi Kleen wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 08, 2007 at 08:30:06PM +0200, Stefan Richter wrote:
>> Andi Kleen wrote:
>>> when you've been using CONFIG_IDE before it is not completely
>>> obvious you need BLK_SD for your hard disk.
>> Switching to different drivers without reading the help text?
>> Tough.
>
>
On Sat, Sep 08, 2007 at 08:30:06PM +0200, Stefan Richter wrote:
> Andi Kleen wrote:
> > when you've been using CONFIG_IDE before it is not completely
> > obvious you need BLK_SD for your hard disk.
>
> Switching to different drivers without reading the help text?
> Tough.
The individual driver de
On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:52:35 +0200 Bodo Eggert wrote:
> BTW2: I think that menu needs very much reordering. "Block devices" should
> be renamed to "Other block devices", AGP support should belong into graphics
> support, and many other things I don't even know need to be pushed around.
> Even orde
Andi Kleen wrote:
> when you've been using CONFIG_IDE before it is not completely
> obvious you need BLK_SD for your hard disk.
Switching to different drivers without reading the help text?
Tough.
--
Stefan Richter
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http://arcgraph.de/sr/
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Bodo Eggert wrote:
> The real problem is hiding devices attached to some controlers between
> one kind of the controllers. This has been correct whern they were bus-
> specific, but since they are now shared by three busses, they should get
> their own menu called "(S)ATA/USB/SCSI attached devices"
> I'd say that someone needs to use a vendor kernel, or at least
> begin with a vendor .config file...
Vendor kernels tend to compile forever and require initrds. For
just testing a kernel quickly compiling only a few drivers in
is much more convenient.
Also when you've been using CONFIG_IDE bef
On Sat, Sep 08, 2007 at 09:50:08AM -0700, Randy Dunlap wrote:
> On 08 Sep 2007 18:07:00 +0200 Andi Kleen wrote:
> > This has also bitten me one or two times. A reasonable way would
> > be to just select SD automatically for !EMBEDDED
>
> I'd say that someone needs to use a vendor kernel, or at lea
Al Boldi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Alan Cox wrote:
>> > I once sent a patch to make libata a submenu of scsi.
>>
>> Which is wrong
>>
>> Nakked-by: Alan Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>> The general comments about moving this stuff around and making it clearer
>> what sd/sr etc are nowdays are good
On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:44:46 +0200 Stefan Richter wrote:
> Randy Dunlap wrote:
> > Stefan Richter wrote:
> >> I am not a friend of 'select', but maybe the following actually helps.
> ...
> > The problem with 'select' here is that it will enable BLK_DEV_SD,
> > but if SCSI is not enabled, it will n
On 08 Sep 2007 18:07:00 +0200 Andi Kleen wrote:
> Folkert van Heusden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Maybe it is a nice enhancement for make menuconfig to more explicitly
> > give a pop-up or so when someone selects for example a sata controller
> > while no 'scsi-disk' support wa
Randy Dunlap wrote:
> Stefan Richter wrote:
>> I am not a friend of 'select', but maybe the following actually helps.
...
> The problem with 'select' here is that it will enable BLK_DEV_SD,
> but if SCSI is not enabled, it will not become enabled -- i.e.,
> select does not follow the dependency cha
Stefan Richter wrote:
(added Cc linux-ide)
Folkert van Heusden wrote:
A popup makes some sense, but I don't know if menuconfig knows how to
do popup warnings... and it needs to be done for all *configs,
not just menuconfig.
Maybe add a new type?
How about
comment "Note: 'SCSI disk support' is
On Sep 8 2007 17:03, Al Boldi wrote:
>Alan Cox wrote:
>> > I once sent a patch to make libata a submenu of scsi.
>>
>> Which is wrong
>>
>> Nakked-by: Alan Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>> The general comments about moving this stuff around and making it clearer
>> what sd/sr etc are nowdays are good
Folkert van Heusden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Hi,
>
> Maybe it is a nice enhancement for make menuconfig to more explicitly
> give a pop-up or so when someone selects for example a sata controller
> while no 'scsi-disk' support was selected?
This has also bitten me one or two times. A reason
Alan Cox wrote:
> > I once sent a patch to make libata a submenu of scsi.
>
> Which is wrong
>
> Nakked-by: Alan Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> The general comments about moving this stuff around and making it clearer
> what sd/sr etc are nowdays are good but hiding libata under SCSI will
> cause even
> I once sent a patch to make libata a submenu of scsi.
Which is wrong
Nakked-by: Alan Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The general comments about moving this stuff around and making it clearer
what sd/sr etc are nowdays are good but hiding libata under SCSI will
cause even more confusion than it cures
On Fri, Sep 07, 2007 at 08:35:22AM -0700, Randy Dunlap wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:48:00 +0200 Folkert van Heusden wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Maybe it is a nice enhancement for make menuconfig to more explicitly
> > give a pop-up or so when someone selects for example a sata controller
> > while
Jan Engelhardt wrote:
> On Sep 8 2007 09:05, Stefan Richter wrote:
>> config ATA_SD
>> tristate "SATA/PATA HDD support (via SCSI disk support)"
>> depends on ATA
>> select BLK_DEV_SD
>> help
>>'SCSI disk support' is required to access SATA HDDs. It is
[...]
>>Yo
On Sep 8 2007 09:05, Stefan Richter wrote:
>config ATA
> [...]
>
>comment "Controller drivers"
>
>[...low-level drivers go here...]
>
>comment "Storage device drivers"
>
>config ATA_SD
> tristate "SATA/PATA HDD support (via SCSI disk support)"
> depends on ATA
> select BLK_
On Sep 8 2007 01:02, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>On Sep 7 2007 21:38, Krzysztof Halasa wrote:
>>> Ok, but that's not the most common situaties. What I'm suggesting is a
>>> warning or a please note popup. Not neccessarily an error or refusing to
>>> continue thing.
>>
>>What IMHO makes sense is changin
(added Cc linux-ide)
Folkert van Heusden wrote:
A popup makes some sense, but I don't know if menuconfig knows how to
do popup warnings... and it needs to be done for all *configs,
not just menuconfig.
>>> Maybe add a new type?
>> How about
>> comment "Note: 'SCSI disk support' is r
Krzysztof Halasa wrote:
>> Ok, but that's not the most common situaties. What I'm suggesting is a
>> warning or a please note popup. Not neccessarily an error or refusing to
>> continue thing.
>
>What IMHO makes sense is changing all references to SCSI CDROM,
>SCSI DISK etc. to just CDROM, DISK, an
> >> I know that it's difficult to get people to read docs & help text,
> >> and maybe it is needed in more places, but CONFIG_ATA (SATA/PATA)
> >> help text says:
> >> NOTE: ATA enables basic SCSI support; *however*,
> >> 'SCSI disk support', 'SCSI tape support', or
> >> 'SCSI CDROM support'
On Sep 7 2007 21:38, Krzysztof Halasa wrote:
>> Ok, but that's not the most common situaties. What I'm suggesting is a
>> warning or a please note popup. Not neccessarily an error or refusing to
>> continue thing.
>
>What IMHO makes sense is changing all references to SCSI CDROM,
>SCSI DISK etc. t
Folkert van Heusden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Ok, but that's not the most common situaties. What I'm suggesting is a
> warning or a please note popup. Not neccessarily an error or refusing to
> continue thing.
What IMHO makes sense is changing all references to SCSI CDROM,
SCSI DISK etc. to j
Folkert van Heusden wrote:
>> I know that it's difficult to get people to read docs & help text,
>> and maybe it is needed in more places, but CONFIG_ATA (SATA/PATA)
>> help text says:
>> NOTE: ATA enables basic SCSI support; *however*,
>> 'SCSI disk support', 'SCSI tape support', or
>> 'SCSI
> > Maybe it is a nice enhancement for make menuconfig to more explicitly
> > give a pop-up or so when someone selects for example a sata controller
> > while no 'scsi-disk' support was selected?
>
> I know that it's difficult to get people to read docs & help text,
> and maybe it is needed in mor
On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:48:00 +0200 Folkert van Heusden wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Maybe it is a nice enhancement for make menuconfig to more explicitly
> give a pop-up or so when someone selects for example a sata controller
> while no 'scsi-disk' support was selected?
I know that it's difficult to get peo
> >Maybe it is a nice enhancement for make menuconfig to more explicitly
> >give a pop-up or so when someone selects for example a sata controller
> >while no 'scsi-disk' support was selected?
>
> Having no sd support is perfectly valid. Imagine a diskless boot
> with only sr support.
Ok, but tha
On Sep 7 2007 14:48, Folkert van Heusden wrote:
>
>Maybe it is a nice enhancement for make menuconfig to more explicitly
>give a pop-up or so when someone selects for example a sata controller
>while no 'scsi-disk' support was selected?
Having no sd support is perfectly valid. Imagine a diskless
Hi,
Maybe it is a nice enhancement for make menuconfig to more explicitly
give a pop-up or so when someone selects for example a sata controller
while no 'scsi-disk' support was selected?
Folkert van Heusden
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