Re: Yes: The linux devs can rescind their license grant. GPLv2 is a bare license and is revocable by the grantor.

2018-12-28 Thread Raul Miller
On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 3:12 PM wrote: > ... pompous programmer asshole*. I think you are projecting your own personality in your perception of others (which is a natural thing to do - everyone does that to some degree). That said, I am going to filter your messages to my spam bucket from now

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-14 Thread Raul Miller
> > That is the point: the result is not a single work. It is a > > collection or compilation of works, just like an anthology. If > > there is any creativity involved, is in choosing and ordering > > the parts. The creation of works that "can be linked together" > > is not protected by copyright:

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-14 Thread Raul Miller
That is the point: the result is not a single work. It is a collection or compilation of works, just like an anthology. If there is any creativity involved, is in choosing and ordering the parts. The creation of works that can be linked together is not protected by copyright: the

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-13 Thread Raul Miller
> > What compels you to agree with an EULA? On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 06:54:29PM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: > If you do not agree with the EULA, you cannot and do not acquire > lawful possession of the work. What about cases where you pay for the software before you're allowed to see the

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-13 Thread Raul Miller
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 11:28:59PM -0700, Sean Kellogg wrote: > Failure to have a click-through license means that there is no acceptance, > which is a fundamental part of contract law. No acceptance, no > contract, no exceptions. False. For example, you can indicate acceptance of the GPL by

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-13 Thread Raul Miller
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 11:28:59PM -0700, Sean Kellogg wrote: Failure to have a click-through license means that there is no acceptance, which is a fundamental part of contract law. No acceptance, no contract, no exceptions. False. For example, you can indicate acceptance of the GPL by

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-13 Thread Raul Miller
What compels you to agree with an EULA? On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 06:54:29PM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: If you do not agree with the EULA, you cannot and do not acquire lawful possession of the work. What about cases where you pay for the software before you're allowed to see the EULA?

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-12 Thread Raul Miller
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 03:45:43PM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: > This wasn't a copyright case. The court only refused to uphold the > agreement because there was no oppurtunity to review the agreement before > purchase. So it certainly wouldn't apply to a click-through type agreement.

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-12 Thread Raul Miller
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 12:05:59PM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: > Yes, the GPL can give you rights you wouldn't otherwise have. A > EULA can take away rights you would otherwise have. What compels you to agree with an EULA? > In the few court cases that have directly addresses

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-12 Thread Raul Miller
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 12:01:15PM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: > Would you agree that compiling and linking a program that uses > a library creates a derivative work of that library? No, I would not. Creating a derivative work requires creativity, and a linker is not creative. The

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-12 Thread Raul Miller
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 09:44:29AM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: > I would say that if not for the EULA, you could transfer ownership > of the image to someone else. And if you legally acquired two copies of > Windows, you could install both of them and transfer them. Otherwise, > you could

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-12 Thread Raul Miller
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 09:44:29AM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: I would say that if not for the EULA, you could transfer ownership of the image to someone else. And if you legally acquired two copies of Windows, you could install both of them and transfer them. Otherwise, you could not

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-12 Thread Raul Miller
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 12:01:15PM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: Would you agree that compiling and linking a program that uses a library creates a derivative work of that library? No, I would not. Creating a derivative work requires creativity, and a linker is not creative. The

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-12 Thread Raul Miller
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 12:05:59PM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: Yes, the GPL can give you rights you wouldn't otherwise have. A EULA can take away rights you would otherwise have. What compels you to agree with an EULA? In the few court cases that have directly addresses

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-12 Thread Raul Miller
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 03:45:43PM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: This wasn't a copyright case. The court only refused to uphold the agreement because there was no oppurtunity to review the agreement before purchase. So it certainly wouldn't apply to a click-through type agreement.

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-11 Thread Raul Miller
On Sun, Apr 10, 2005 at 11:24:10AM +0200, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote: > AFAIK software only refers to programs, not to arbitrary sequences of > bytes. An MP3 file isn't "software". Although it surely isn't hardware > either. This point is a controversial point. Different people make different

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-11 Thread Raul Miller
On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 12:31:53PM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: > Perhaps you could cite the law that restricts to the copyright > holder the right to restrict the distribution of derivative works. I can > cite the laws that restrict all those other things and clearly *don't* > mention

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-11 Thread Raul Miller
On Sun, Apr 10, 2005 at 01:18:11PM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: > You could do that be means of a contract, but I don't think you > could it do by means of a copyright license. The problem is that there > is no right to control the distribution of derivative works for you > to withhold from

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-11 Thread Raul Miller
On Sun, Apr 10, 2005 at 01:18:11PM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: You could do that be means of a contract, but I don't think you could it do by means of a copyright license. The problem is that there is no right to control the distribution of derivative works for you to withhold from me.

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-11 Thread Raul Miller
On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 12:31:53PM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: Perhaps you could cite the law that restricts to the copyright holder the right to restrict the distribution of derivative works. I can cite the laws that restrict all those other things and clearly *don't* mention

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-11 Thread Raul Miller
On Sun, Apr 10, 2005 at 11:24:10AM +0200, Giuseppe Bilotta wrote: AFAIK software only refers to programs, not to arbitrary sequences of bytes. An MP3 file isn't software. Although it surely isn't hardware either. This point is a controversial point. Different people make different claims.

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-09 Thread Raul Miller
> > It's impossible to treat patents consistently. On Sat, Apr 09, 2005 at 04:38:15PM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote: > Even RedHat with a stronger financial background than Debian considered > the MP3 patents being serious enough to remove MP3 support. It's silly to treat financial risk as being a

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-09 Thread Raul Miller
It's impossible to treat patents consistently. On Sat, Apr 09, 2005 at 04:38:15PM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote: Even RedHat with a stronger financial background than Debian considered the MP3 patents being serious enough to remove MP3 support. It's silly to treat financial risk as being a one

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-08 Thread Raul Miller
On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 07:34:00PM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote: > If Debian was at least consistent. > > Why has Debian a much more liberal interpretation of MP3 patent issues > than RedHat? It's impossible to treat patents consistently. The U.S. patent office, at least, has granted patents on

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-08 Thread Raul Miller
On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 09:41:35AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > BTW, have any of you read the analysis i made, where i claim, rooted > in the GPL FAQ and with examples, why i believe that the firmware can > be considerated a non derivative of the linux kernel. I hadn't. I did just now. Here's my

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-08 Thread Raul Miller
On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 09:41:35AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: BTW, have any of you read the analysis i made, where i claim, rooted in the GPL FAQ and with examples, why i believe that the firmware can be considerated a non derivative of the linux kernel. I hadn't. I did just now. Here's my

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-07 Thread Raul Miller
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 08:05:31PM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: > I think we have a real problem, however, in cases where the source > file that holds only the firmware data contains a GPL notice. Sure: the GPL notice isn't completely valid. But I think people have already decided that

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-07 Thread Raul Miller
> > Also, "mere aggregation" is a term from the GPL. You can read what > > it says there yourself. But basically it's there so that people make > > a distinction between the program itself and other stuff that isn't > > the program. On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 04:20:50PM -0700, David Schwartz

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-07 Thread Raul Miller
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 01:26:17AM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: > If you believe the linker "merely aggregates" the object code for the > driver with the data for the firmware, I can't see how you can argue > that any linking is anything but mere aggregation. In neither case can > you separate the

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-07 Thread Raul Miller
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 01:26:17AM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: If you believe the linker merely aggregates the object code for the driver with the data for the firmware, I can't see how you can argue that any linking is anything but mere aggregation. In neither case can you separate the

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-07 Thread Raul Miller
Also, mere aggregation is a term from the GPL. You can read what it says there yourself. But basically it's there so that people make a distinction between the program itself and other stuff that isn't the program. On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 04:20:50PM -0700, David Schwartz wrote:

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-07 Thread Raul Miller
On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 08:05:31PM -0700, David Schwartz wrote: I think we have a real problem, however, in cases where the source file that holds only the firmware data contains a GPL notice. Sure: the GPL notice isn't completely valid. But I think people have already decided that

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-06 Thread Raul Miller
> Josselin Mouette wrote: > >It merely depends on the definition of "aggregation". I'd say that two > >works that are only aggregated can be easily distinguished and > >separated. This is not the case for a binary kernel module, from which > >you cannot easily extract the firmware and code parts.

Re: non-free firmware in kernel modules, aggregation and unclear copyright notice.

2005-04-06 Thread Raul Miller
Josselin Mouette wrote: It merely depends on the definition of aggregation. I'd say that two works that are only aggregated can be easily distinguished and separated. This is not the case for a binary kernel module, from which you cannot easily extract the firmware and code parts. On Tue,

guarantee_memory() syscall?

2000-10-29 Thread Raul Miller
Can anyone tell me about the viability of a guarantee_memory() syscall? [I'm thinking: it would either kill the process, or allocate all virtual memory needed for its shared libraries, buffers, allocated memory, etc. Furthermore, it would render this process immune to the OOM killer, unless it

guarantee_memory() syscall?

2000-10-29 Thread Raul Miller
Can anyone tell me about the viability of a guarantee_memory() syscall? [I'm thinking: it would either kill the process, or allocate all virtual memory needed for its shared libraries, buffers, allocated memory, etc. Furthermore, it would render this process immune to the OOM killer, unless it

Re: No Bug: accept discards socket options/O_NONBLOCK

2000-09-15 Thread Raul Miller
On Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 07:01:32AM -0700, David S. Miller wrote: > Every Linux inetd in the world would instantly stop working. Pointer to docs on why this is not considered a bug in inetd? Also, you already know how to upgrade a syscall without breaking backwards compatability. > The behavior

Re: No Bug: accept discards socket options/O_NONBLOCK

2000-09-15 Thread Raul Miller
On Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 07:01:32AM -0700, David S. Miller wrote: Every Linux inetd in the world would instantly stop working. Pointer to docs on why this is not considered a bug in inetd? Also, you already know how to upgrade a syscall without breaking backwards compatability. The behavior