Re: HELP: NFS mount hangs when attempting to copy file

2005-07-23 Thread Timothy Miller
On 7/23/05, Trond Myklebust <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I beg to disagree. A lot of these VPN solutions are unfriendly to MTU
> path discovery over UDP. Sun uses TCP by default when mounting NFS
> partitions. Have you tried this on your Linux box?

I changed the protocol to TCP and changed rsize and wsize to 1024.  I
don't know which of those fixed it, but I'm going to leave it for now.

As for MTU, yeah, the Watchguard box seems to have some hard-coded
limits, and for whatever reason KDE and GNOME graphical logins do
something that exceeds those limits, completely independent of NFS,
and hang up hard.

Thanks.
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Re: HELP: NFS mount hangs when attempting to copy file

2005-07-23 Thread Timothy Miller
On 7/23/05, Trond Myklebust [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I beg to disagree. A lot of these VPN solutions are unfriendly to MTU
 path discovery over UDP. Sun uses TCP by default when mounting NFS
 partitions. Have you tried this on your Linux box?

I changed the protocol to TCP and changed rsize and wsize to 1024.  I
don't know which of those fixed it, but I'm going to leave it for now.

As for MTU, yeah, the Watchguard box seems to have some hard-coded
limits, and for whatever reason KDE and GNOME graphical logins do
something that exceeds those limits, completely independent of NFS,
and hang up hard.

Thanks.
-
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HELP: NFS mount hangs when attempting to copy file

2005-07-20 Thread Timothy Miller
My research suggests that NFS client mounting is kernel-based, so
that's why I'm posting here.  If there's a more appropriate list to
post to, I apologise, but I am not a list member.

I'm having a bit of a problem doing simple copies over an NFS mount. 
The client is running Linux (2.6.11), and the server is running
Solaris (5.8).

When I first boot the client, getting NFS directory listings works
just fine.  But the instant I try to copy a file (to or from), the NFS
mount hangs.  While I can still do other network activity (even rlogin
to the server), any NFS access I try to do after that point hangs,
including directory listings.

I have had this same client and server working flawlessly for years. 
The only change is that the client is now on a VPN (Watchguard SOHO
box).  However, I have a Sun machine on the same VPN network segment,
and it can copy files with no problem, so it's not the router/SOHO
that's blocking anything.  (NIS and DNS also work just fine for both
machines.)

Also, after it hangs like that, I cannot reboot the machine normally. 
When attempting to unmount the network filesystems, the shutdown
hangs, and I have to hard-reset the machine.
 
Is there anyone who could please help me to debug this problem?  As
far as I know, I have NFS setup properly, but I don't know enough
about it to know what options I might try.  I don't even care if the
fix degrades performance; I just want it to not hang.

Does anyone have any ideas? 
 
Thanks very much in advance!
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HELP: NFS mount hangs when attempting to copy file

2005-07-20 Thread Timothy Miller
My research suggests that NFS client mounting is kernel-based, so
that's why I'm posting here.  If there's a more appropriate list to
post to, I apologise, but I am not a list member.

I'm having a bit of a problem doing simple copies over an NFS mount. 
The client is running Linux (2.6.11), and the server is running
Solaris (5.8).

When I first boot the client, getting NFS directory listings works
just fine.  But the instant I try to copy a file (to or from), the NFS
mount hangs.  While I can still do other network activity (even rlogin
to the server), any NFS access I try to do after that point hangs,
including directory listings.

I have had this same client and server working flawlessly for years. 
The only change is that the client is now on a VPN (Watchguard SOHO
box).  However, I have a Sun machine on the same VPN network segment,
and it can copy files with no problem, so it's not the router/SOHO
that's blocking anything.  (NIS and DNS also work just fine for both
machines.)

Also, after it hangs like that, I cannot reboot the machine normally. 
When attempting to unmount the network filesystems, the shutdown
hangs, and I have to hard-reset the machine.
 
Is there anyone who could please help me to debug this problem?  As
far as I know, I have NFS setup properly, but I don't know enough
about it to know what options I might try.  I don't even care if the
fix degrades performance; I just want it to not hang.

Does anyone have any ideas? 
 
Thanks very much in advance!
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Re: ALSA HELP: Crackling and popping noises with via82xx

2005-02-01 Thread Timothy Miller
On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:55:23 +1100, Lincoln Dale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 01:34 PM 2/02/2005, Timothy Miller wrote:
> >I've mentioned this problem before.  It seemed to go away around the
> >2.6.8 timeframe, but when I started using 2.6.9, it came back.   I'm
> >using 2.6.10, and it's still happening.
> 
> almost identical system here, other than i'm using an ASUS A7V600
> motherboard but otherwise have identical chipset, graphics card.
> (although the ASUS board has a rev60 version of the sound driver).

Thanks for responding.  I may have neglected to mention that I'm not
subscribed, in case anyone else wants to respond.

> 
> no problems with audio crackling at all, using 2.6.10 and 2.6.1-rc2-mm2
> with audio compiled into the kernel (not using modules for OSS/ALSA).
> 
> perhaps the interrupt is shared with some other device?
> perhaps your speakers are dying?

Definitely not.  I can use this same box for days on end in Windows,
and everything works great (well, sound anyway).  I boot Linux and it
makes noises.

> 
> this is my mythtv box so i'd certainly notice if the audio was bung.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] root]# uname -a
> Linux spam 2.6.10ltd1 #1 Sun Jan 30 21:06:01 EST 2005 i686 athlon i386
> GNU/Linux
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] root]# lspci
> 00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8377 [KT400/KT600 AGP] Host 
> Bridge (rev 80)
> 00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8237 PCI Bridge
> 00:0a.0 Multimedia video controller: Brooktree Corporation Bt878 Video
> Capture (rev 11)
> 00:0a.1 Multimedia controller: Brooktree Corporation Bt878 Audio Capture
> (rev 11)
> 00:0e.0 Multimedia video controller: Conexant Winfast TV2000 XP (rev 05)
> 00:0e.2 Multimedia controller: Conexant: Unknown device 8802 (rev 05)
> 00:0f.0 RAID bus controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VIA VT6420 SATA RAID
> Controller (rev 80)
> 00:0f.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc.
> VT82C586A/B/VT82C686/A/B/VT823x/A/C PIPC Bus Master IDE (rev 06)
> 00:10.0 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 
> Controller (rev 81)
> 00:10.1 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 
> Controller (rev 81)
> 00:10.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 
> Controller (rev 81)
> 00:10.3 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1
> Controller (rev 81)
> 00:10.4 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 (rev 86)
> 00:11.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8237 ISA bridge [K8T800 South]
> 00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. 
> VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 60)
> 00:12.0 Ethernet controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6102 [Rhine-II] (rev 78)
> 00:13.0 Multimedia video controller: Brooktree Corporation Bt848 Video
> Capture (rev 12)
> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200
> SE] (rev 01)
> 01:00.1 Display controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200 SE]
> (Secondary) (rev 01)
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] root]# cat /proc/interrupts
> CPU0
>0:  160440190IO-APIC-edge  timer
>1:   6157IO-APIC-edge  i8042
>7: 118047IO-APIC-edge  parport0
>9:  0   IO-APIC-level  acpi
>   12: 165567IO-APIC-edge  i8042
>   14: 403308IO-APIC-edge  ide0
>   15:1685009IO-APIC-edge  ide1
>   16:   59442009   IO-APIC-level  bttv0, bt878
>   17:  0   IO-APIC-level  cx88[0], cx88[0]
>   18:  3   IO-APIC-level  bttv1
>   21: 37   IO-APIC-level  ehci_hcd, uhci_hcd, uhci_hcd, uhci_hcd,
> uhci_hcd
>   22:  48672   IO-APIC-level  VIA8237
>   23: 139365   IO-APIC-level  eth0
> 
> cheers,
> 
> lincoln.
> 

Here's my /proc/interrupts:

   CPU0
  0:9862457IO-APIC-edge  timer
  1:  17739IO-APIC-edge  i8042
  7:  0IO-APIC-edge  parport0
  9:  0   IO-APIC-level  acpi
 12: 259939IO-APIC-edge  i8042
 14:  7IO-APIC-edge  ide0
 15: 22IO-APIC-edge  ide1
169: 369851   IO-APIC-level  [EMAIL PROTECTED]::01:00.0
177:  51422   IO-APIC-level  3w-, eth0
193:   3165   IO-APIC-level  VIA8233
NMI:  0
LOC:9862333
ERR:  0
MIS:  0
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ALSA HELP: Crackling and popping noises with via82xx

2005-02-01 Thread Timothy Miller
I've mentioned this problem before.  It seemed to go away around the
2.6.8 timeframe, but when I started using 2.6.9, it came back.   I'm
using 2.6.10, and it's still happening.

Basically, I get random poppling and crackling noises out of my
speakers.  Sometimes it's silent, and sometimes, it crackles and pops
for minutes at a time.  It's really disturbing, really, because it
happens suddenly, sometimes very loudly, and usually when I'm
concentrating.  :)

Normal sound playback works, but sometimes, it's distorted.  Also note
that I'm having the same problems both on my KT400 board (Athlon XP)
at home and worse problems with the same driver on a Dell box at work
with a P4 and a chipset I'll have to tell you about when I get to work
if you need to know.

Here's some background from my earlier posts:

http://lkml.org/lkml/2004/7/5/2
http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0407.2/0064.html
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=193711

I have an ABIT KD7, which has the KT400 chipset. I have determined
that the applicable
driver is "via82xx".  Note that the links mention MIDI.  Don't get
confused by that.  I care ONLY about getting rid of the noises.

lspci says:

:00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8377 [KT400/KT600
AGP] Host Bridge
:00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8235 PCI Bridge
:00:0b.0 RAID bus controller: 3ware Inc 3ware Inc 3ware
7xxx/8xxx-series PATA/SATA-RAID (rev 01)
:00:0d.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corp. 82557/8/9 [Ethernet Pro
100] (rev 0c)
:00:10.0 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB
1.1 Controller (rev 80)
:00:10.1 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB
1.1 Controller (rev 80)
:00:10.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB
1.1 Controller (rev 80)
:00:10.3 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 (rev 82)
:00:11.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8235 ISA Bridge
:00:11.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc.
VT82C586A/B/VT82C686/A/B/VT823x/A/C PIPC Bus Master IDE (rev 06)
:00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc.
VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 50)
:00:12.0 Ethernet controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6102
[Rhine-II] (rev 74)
:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV280
[Radeon 9200 SE] (rev 01)
:01:00.1 Display controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon
9200 SE] (Secondary) (rev 01)


Here are the uncommented bits of /etc/modules.d/alsa:

options snd  device_mode=0666
alias snd-card-0 snd-via82xx
alias sound-slot-0 snd-card-0
alias sound-service-0-0 snd-mixer-oss
alias sound-service-0-1 snd-seq-oss
alias sound-service-0-3 snd-pcm-oss
alias sound-service-0-8 snd-seq-oss
alias sound-service-0-12 snd-pcm-oss
alias /dev/mixer snd-mixer-oss
alias /dev/dsp snd-pcm-oss
alias /dev/midi snd-seq-oss
options snd cards_limit=1


Please help!
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ALSA HELP: Crackling and popping noises with via82xx

2005-02-01 Thread Timothy Miller
I've mentioned this problem before.  It seemed to go away around the
2.6.8 timeframe, but when I started using 2.6.9, it came back.   I'm
using 2.6.10, and it's still happening.

Basically, I get random poppling and crackling noises out of my
speakers.  Sometimes it's silent, and sometimes, it crackles and pops
for minutes at a time.  It's really disturbing, really, because it
happens suddenly, sometimes very loudly, and usually when I'm
concentrating.  :)

Normal sound playback works, but sometimes, it's distorted.  Also note
that I'm having the same problems both on my KT400 board (Athlon XP)
at home and worse problems with the same driver on a Dell box at work
with a P4 and a chipset I'll have to tell you about when I get to work
if you need to know.

Here's some background from my earlier posts:

http://lkml.org/lkml/2004/7/5/2
http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0407.2/0064.html
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=193711

I have an ABIT KD7, which has the KT400 chipset. I have determined
that the applicable
driver is via82xx.  Note that the links mention MIDI.  Don't get
confused by that.  I care ONLY about getting rid of the noises.

lspci says:

:00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8377 [KT400/KT600
AGP] Host Bridge
:00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8235 PCI Bridge
:00:0b.0 RAID bus controller: 3ware Inc 3ware Inc 3ware
7xxx/8xxx-series PATA/SATA-RAID (rev 01)
:00:0d.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corp. 82557/8/9 [Ethernet Pro
100] (rev 0c)
:00:10.0 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB
1.1 Controller (rev 80)
:00:10.1 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB
1.1 Controller (rev 80)
:00:10.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB
1.1 Controller (rev 80)
:00:10.3 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 (rev 82)
:00:11.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8235 ISA Bridge
:00:11.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc.
VT82C586A/B/VT82C686/A/B/VT823x/A/C PIPC Bus Master IDE (rev 06)
:00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc.
VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 50)
:00:12.0 Ethernet controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6102
[Rhine-II] (rev 74)
:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV280
[Radeon 9200 SE] (rev 01)
:01:00.1 Display controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon
9200 SE] (Secondary) (rev 01)


Here are the uncommented bits of /etc/modules.d/alsa:

options snd  device_mode=0666
alias snd-card-0 snd-via82xx
alias sound-slot-0 snd-card-0
alias sound-service-0-0 snd-mixer-oss
alias sound-service-0-1 snd-seq-oss
alias sound-service-0-3 snd-pcm-oss
alias sound-service-0-8 snd-seq-oss
alias sound-service-0-12 snd-pcm-oss
alias /dev/mixer snd-mixer-oss
alias /dev/dsp snd-pcm-oss
alias /dev/midi snd-seq-oss
options snd cards_limit=1


Please help!
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Re: ALSA HELP: Crackling and popping noises with via82xx

2005-02-01 Thread Timothy Miller
On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:55:23 +1100, Lincoln Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 At 01:34 PM 2/02/2005, Timothy Miller wrote:
 I've mentioned this problem before.  It seemed to go away around the
 2.6.8 timeframe, but when I started using 2.6.9, it came back.   I'm
 using 2.6.10, and it's still happening.
 
 almost identical system here, other than i'm using an ASUS A7V600
 motherboard but otherwise have identical chipset, graphics card.
 (although the ASUS board has a rev60 version of the sound driver).

Thanks for responding.  I may have neglected to mention that I'm not
subscribed, in case anyone else wants to respond.

 
 no problems with audio crackling at all, using 2.6.10 and 2.6.1-rc2-mm2
 with audio compiled into the kernel (not using modules for OSS/ALSA).
 
 perhaps the interrupt is shared with some other device?
 perhaps your speakers are dying?

Definitely not.  I can use this same box for days on end in Windows,
and everything works great (well, sound anyway).  I boot Linux and it
makes noises.

 
 this is my mythtv box so i'd certainly notice if the audio was bung.
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] root]# uname -a
 Linux spam 2.6.10ltd1 #1 Sun Jan 30 21:06:01 EST 2005 i686 athlon i386
 GNU/Linux
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] root]# lspci
 00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8377 [KT400/KT600 AGP] Host 
 Bridge (rev 80)
 00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8237 PCI Bridge
 00:0a.0 Multimedia video controller: Brooktree Corporation Bt878 Video
 Capture (rev 11)
 00:0a.1 Multimedia controller: Brooktree Corporation Bt878 Audio Capture
 (rev 11)
 00:0e.0 Multimedia video controller: Conexant Winfast TV2000 XP (rev 05)
 00:0e.2 Multimedia controller: Conexant: Unknown device 8802 (rev 05)
 00:0f.0 RAID bus controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VIA VT6420 SATA RAID
 Controller (rev 80)
 00:0f.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc.
 VT82C586A/B/VT82C686/A/B/VT823x/A/C PIPC Bus Master IDE (rev 06)
 00:10.0 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 
 Controller (rev 81)
 00:10.1 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 
 Controller (rev 81)
 00:10.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1 
 Controller (rev 81)
 00:10.3 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82x UHCI USB 1.1
 Controller (rev 81)
 00:10.4 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB 2.0 (rev 86)
 00:11.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8237 ISA bridge [K8T800 South]
 00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. 
 VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 60)
 00:12.0 Ethernet controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6102 [Rhine-II] (rev 78)
 00:13.0 Multimedia video controller: Brooktree Corporation Bt848 Video
 Capture (rev 12)
 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200
 SE] (rev 01)
 01:00.1 Display controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200 SE]
 (Secondary) (rev 01)
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] root]# cat /proc/interrupts
 CPU0
0:  160440190IO-APIC-edge  timer
1:   6157IO-APIC-edge  i8042
7: 118047IO-APIC-edge  parport0
9:  0   IO-APIC-level  acpi
   12: 165567IO-APIC-edge  i8042
   14: 403308IO-APIC-edge  ide0
   15:1685009IO-APIC-edge  ide1
   16:   59442009   IO-APIC-level  bttv0, bt878
   17:  0   IO-APIC-level  cx88[0], cx88[0]
   18:  3   IO-APIC-level  bttv1
   21: 37   IO-APIC-level  ehci_hcd, uhci_hcd, uhci_hcd, uhci_hcd,
 uhci_hcd
   22:  48672   IO-APIC-level  VIA8237
   23: 139365   IO-APIC-level  eth0
 
 cheers,
 
 lincoln.
 

Here's my /proc/interrupts:

   CPU0
  0:9862457IO-APIC-edge  timer
  1:  17739IO-APIC-edge  i8042
  7:  0IO-APIC-edge  parport0
  9:  0   IO-APIC-level  acpi
 12: 259939IO-APIC-edge  i8042
 14:  7IO-APIC-edge  ide0
 15: 22IO-APIC-edge  ide1
169: 369851   IO-APIC-level  [EMAIL PROTECTED]::01:00.0
177:  51422   IO-APIC-level  3w-, eth0
193:   3165   IO-APIC-level  VIA8233
NMI:  0
LOC:9862333
ERR:  0
MIS:  0
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[OT] News about the Open Graphics Project

2005-01-25 Thread Timothy Miller
Some of you may recall my post back in October 
(http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-kernel=109831011607347=2) 
about an open-source-friendly graphics board.  We've been working on 
that, and we've made a lot of progress on it.  A LOT has changed, and 
we're now working on an OpenGL-compliant 3D GPU.

This morning, KernelTrap put up an interview that we've been working on 
which talks about the project and its current status.  Here's a link to 
the article:

http://kerneltrap.org/node/4622
Usually, KernelTrap quotes LKML.  Therefore, I figure it wouldn't be too 
bad for me to quote KernelTrap on LKML.  :)  Here's a relevant bit of 
the article:

The Open Graphics Project is a collaboration between the Free and Open 
Source Software (FOSS) Community and Tech Source Inc. to develop new 3D 
graphics products that are compatible with Free Software, both 
philosophically and practically. The project is currently designing an 
"open source friendly graphics card" which will offer quality 3D and 2D 
acceleration with an impressive feature set at an affordable price, 
aiming for availability as early as June of 2005. Though the project was 
only started in October of 2004, it has already released the card's 
specifications, a design document, and a software model for early 
testing and driver development. In this interview, Timothy provides a 
wealth of information about the project and its current status, 
highlights contributions needed from the free and open source community, 
and fully describes the specific capabilities of the card.


[Note:  I used to subscribe to LKML, but this project and my own mailing 
list have made it impossible for me to keep up with LKML.  If you have 
questions, feel free to email me directly.]
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[OT] News about the Open Graphics Project

2005-01-25 Thread Timothy Miller
Some of you may recall my post back in October 
(http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-kernelm=109831011607347w=2) 
about an open-source-friendly graphics board.  We've been working on 
that, and we've made a lot of progress on it.  A LOT has changed, and 
we're now working on an OpenGL-compliant 3D GPU.

This morning, KernelTrap put up an interview that we've been working on 
which talks about the project and its current status.  Here's a link to 
the article:

http://kerneltrap.org/node/4622
Usually, KernelTrap quotes LKML.  Therefore, I figure it wouldn't be too 
bad for me to quote KernelTrap on LKML.  :)  Here's a relevant bit of 
the article:

The Open Graphics Project is a collaboration between the Free and Open 
Source Software (FOSS) Community and Tech Source Inc. to develop new 3D 
graphics products that are compatible with Free Software, both 
philosophically and practically. The project is currently designing an 
open source friendly graphics card which will offer quality 3D and 2D 
acceleration with an impressive feature set at an affordable price, 
aiming for availability as early as June of 2005. Though the project was 
only started in October of 2004, it has already released the card's 
specifications, a design document, and a software model for early 
testing and driver development. In this interview, Timothy provides a 
wealth of information about the project and its current status, 
highlights contributions needed from the free and open source community, 
and fully describes the specific capabilities of the card.


[Note:  I used to subscribe to LKML, but this project and my own mailing 
list have made it impossible for me to keep up with LKML.  If you have 
questions, feel free to email me directly.]
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