On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 12:01:05PM +1000, Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 10:14 +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
> > > OK, I am stupid enough to take a stab at this...
> > >
> > > 1.Does the Linux kernel community's health depend on the occasional
> > > rant? [My
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 12:01:05PM +1000, Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 10:14 +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
OK, I am stupid enough to take a stab at this...
1.Does the Linux kernel community's health depend on the occasional
rant? [My guess is that we
On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 10:14 +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
> > OK, I am stupid enough to take a stab at this...
> >
> > 1.Does the Linux kernel community's health depend on the occasional
> > rant? [My guess is that we simply have no way of knowing.
> > That said, I would be
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 10:14:49AM +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 14:18 -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:27:09PM +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 15:38 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:08 PM,
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 04:15:55PM -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> "Your code breaks the build for every platform. Would you please kindly
> consider fixing it ?"
Something like this: https://lists.launchpad.net/ac100/msg01040.html
"small typo here."
Marc, was obviously dripping with sarcasm when
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 14:18 -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:27:09PM +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
> > On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 15:38 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Steven Rostedt
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Can we please make this
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 14:18 -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:27:09PM +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 15:38 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Steven Rostedt rost...@goodmis.org
wrote:
Can we please make this
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 04:15:55PM -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
Your code breaks the build for every platform. Would you please kindly
consider fixing it ?
Something like this: https://lists.launchpad.net/ac100/msg01040.html
small typo here.
Marc, was obviously dripping with sarcasm when he
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 10:14:49AM +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 14:18 -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:27:09PM +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 15:38 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Steven
On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 10:14 +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
OK, I am stupid enough to take a stab at this...
1.Does the Linux kernel community's health depend on the occasional
rant? [My guess is that we simply have no way of knowing.
That said, I would be interested in
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:22:38PM -0700, Darren Hart wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 21:48 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
>
> > Guys, I love my job. The kernel developer community is great. But I
> > suspect that some of you don't necessarily think about the other side.
> > I had slashdot
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 21:48 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> Guys, I love my job. The kernel developer community is great. But I
> suspect that some of you don't necessarily think about the other side.
> I had slashdot discussing my abusive relationship with my wife and
> kids thanks to Sarah's
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 8:16 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 20:02 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
>>
>> Umm. Notice how the "Joseph" I replied to had deleted all the comments he
>> wrote?
>
> Sorry, that completely escaped me.
>
>> That should tell you something. I smacked down a
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 20:02 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> >
> > In fact, even in the pull request that's referenced here, Linus, you
> > were polite but firm in your first two responses. When you're perfectly
> > capable of doing that, why
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
>
> In fact, even in the pull request that's referenced here, Linus, you
> were polite but firm in your first two responses. When you're perfectly
> capable of doing that, why spoil it by adding insults?
Umm. Notice how the "Joseph" I
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 19:50 -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 03:43:57PM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
[...]
> > > Keep in mind that there are some cultures where even pointing out a
> > > technical flaw in code might considered bringing deep shame on the
> > > engineer and their
On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 19:50:08 -0400 Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> The other question where I think you and Linus differ is the belief
> whether polite messages of the form, "it's really rude to break the
> kernel ABI, I would rather prefer if you wouldn't do that" are as
> effective at establishing
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 19:50 -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> Hopefully this helps to clarify the discussion. I'm trying rather
> purposely not take one side or another, but instead trying to
> articulate what I think I've been hearing people say (over, and over,
> and over again, on this very long
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 03:43:57PM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> I don't think we disagree on this, Ted. I've stated that I view
> personal attacks and insults negatively, and I don't see an issue with
> pointing out that code is bad. I think you're agreeing with me on this.
Perhaps I
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 19:38 -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> I'll admit that when I first started sending patches to LKML, I was
> terrified. Not because I was afraid of being scolded, but because I was
> afraid that what I sent wasn't good. It was a true judgment of my work.
> I was prettified.
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 16:12 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> > What problem exactly are we trying to solve here?
>
> Personal attacks are not cool Steve.
I never said it was. But no matter what we do, people *will* be
offended. Can't help that.
> Some people simply don't care if a
> verbal tirade
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 16:12 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> In order to make our community better, we need to figure out where the
> baseline of "good" behavior is. We need to define what behavior we want
> from both maintainers and patch submitters. E.g. "No regressions" and
> "don't break
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 06:54:59PM -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 15:43 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
>
> > Yes, that's true. Some kernel developers are better at moderating their
> > comments and tone towards individuals who are "sensitive". Others
> > simply don't give a
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 15:43 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> Yes, that's true. Some kernel developers are better at moderating their
> comments and tone towards individuals who are "sensitive". Others
> simply don't give a shit. So we need to figure out how to meet
> somewhere in the middle, in
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 05:27:04PM -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 02:12:35PM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> > "Your code is crap" is considered unprofessional, while
> > > "Let's leverage my fifth grade nephew's capabilities to assist you in
> > > fixing the code" is perfectly
On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 22:27:09 +0400 James Bottomley
wrote:
> On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 15:38 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> > >
> > > Can we please make this into a Kernel Summit discussion. I highly doubt
> > > we would solve anything, but
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 02:12:35PM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> "Your code is crap" is considered unprofessional, while
> > "Let's leverage my fifth grade nephew's capabilities to assist you in
> > fixing the code" is perfectly professional, somehow. That's more
> > often than not an unacceptable
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:27:09PM +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
> On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 15:38 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> > >
> > > Can we please make this into a Kernel Summit discussion. I highly doubt
> > > we would solve anything,
On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 15:38 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> >
> > Can we please make this into a Kernel Summit discussion. I highly doubt
> > we would solve anything, but it certainly would be a fun segment to
> > watch :-)
>
> I think we
Linus Torvalds wrote:
> A small panel discussion with a few people (fiveish?) that have very
> different viewpoints, along with baskets of rotten fruit set out on
> the tables? That could be fun. And I'm serious, although we might want
> to limit the size of the fruit to smaller berries ;)
I
Linus Torvalds torva...@linux-foundation.org wrote:
A small panel discussion with a few people (fiveish?) that have very
different viewpoints, along with baskets of rotten fruit set out on
the tables? That could be fun. And I'm serious, although we might want
to limit the size of the fruit to
On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 15:38 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Steven Rostedt rost...@goodmis.org wrote:
Can we please make this into a Kernel Summit discussion. I highly doubt
we would solve anything, but it certainly would be a fun segment to
watch :-)
I
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:27:09PM +0400, James Bottomley wrote:
On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 15:38 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Steven Rostedt rost...@goodmis.org wrote:
Can we please make this into a Kernel Summit discussion. I highly doubt
we would solve
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 02:12:35PM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
Your code is crap is considered unprofessional, while
Let's leverage my fifth grade nephew's capabilities to assist you in
fixing the code is perfectly professional, somehow. That's more
often than not an unacceptable attitude in
On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 22:27:09 +0400 James Bottomley
james.bottom...@hansenpartnership.com wrote:
On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 15:38 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Steven Rostedt rost...@goodmis.org wrote:
Can we please make this into a Kernel Summit discussion. I
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 05:27:04PM -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 02:12:35PM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
Your code is crap is considered unprofessional, while
Let's leverage my fifth grade nephew's capabilities to assist you in
fixing the code is perfectly professional,
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 15:43 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
Yes, that's true. Some kernel developers are better at moderating their
comments and tone towards individuals who are sensitive. Others
simply don't give a shit. So we need to figure out how to meet
somewhere in the middle, in order to
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 06:54:59PM -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 15:43 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
Yes, that's true. Some kernel developers are better at moderating their
comments and tone towards individuals who are sensitive. Others
simply don't give a shit. So we
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 16:12 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
In order to make our community better, we need to figure out where the
baseline of good behavior is. We need to define what behavior we want
from both maintainers and patch submitters. E.g. No regressions and
don't break userspace and no
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 16:12 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
What problem exactly are we trying to solve here?
Personal attacks are not cool Steve.
I never said it was. But no matter what we do, people *will* be
offended. Can't help that.
Some people simply don't care if a
verbal tirade is
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 19:38 -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote:
I'll admit that when I first started sending patches to LKML, I was
terrified. Not because I was afraid of being scolded, but because I was
afraid that what I sent wasn't good. It was a true judgment of my work.
I was prettified. Sure,
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 03:43:57PM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
I don't think we disagree on this, Ted. I've stated that I view
personal attacks and insults negatively, and I don't see an issue with
pointing out that code is bad. I think you're agreeing with me on this.
Perhaps I misundrestood
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 19:50 -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
Hopefully this helps to clarify the discussion. I'm trying rather
purposely not take one side or another, but instead trying to
articulate what I think I've been hearing people say (over, and over,
and over again, on this very long mail
On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 19:50:08 -0400 Theodore Ts'o ty...@mit.edu wrote:
The other question where I think you and Linus differ is the belief
whether polite messages of the form, it's really rude to break the
kernel ABI, I would rather prefer if you wouldn't do that are as
effective at
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 19:50 -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 03:43:57PM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
[...]
Keep in mind that there are some cultures where even pointing out a
technical flaw in code might considered bringing deep shame on the
engineer and their company.
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Ben Hutchings b...@decadent.org.uk wrote:
In fact, even in the pull request that's referenced here, Linus, you
were polite but firm in your first two responses. When you're perfectly
capable of doing that, why spoil it by adding insults?
Umm. Notice how the
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 20:02 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Ben Hutchings b...@decadent.org.uk wrote:
In fact, even in the pull request that's referenced here, Linus, you
were polite but firm in your first two responses. When you're perfectly
capable of
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 8:16 PM, Ben Hutchings b...@decadent.org.uk wrote:
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 20:02 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
Umm. Notice how the Joseph I replied to had deleted all the comments he
wrote?
Sorry, that completely escaped me.
That should tell you something. I smacked
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 21:48 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
Guys, I love my job. The kernel developer community is great. But I
suspect that some of you don't necessarily think about the other side.
I had slashdot discussing my abusive relationship with my wife and
kids thanks to Sarah's
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:22:38PM -0700, Darren Hart wrote:
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 21:48 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
Guys, I love my job. The kernel developer community is great. But I
suspect that some of you don't necessarily think about the other side.
I had slashdot discussing my
50 matches
Mail list logo
