Hi Josh,
On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 2:16 PM Josh Triplett wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 07:26:06AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> > On Sun, Oct 21 2018, Josh Triplett wrote:
> > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 08:20:11AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> > >> I call on you, Greg:
> > >> - to abandon this divisive
On Sun, Nov 04, 2018 at 08:06:41AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 03 2018, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Nov 03, 2018 at 07:36:19PM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> >> On Fri, Nov 02 2018, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Fri, Nov 02, 2018 at 08:50:11AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> >>
On Sat, Nov 03 2018, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 03, 2018 at 07:36:19PM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 02 2018, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
>>
>> > On Fri, Nov 02, 2018 at 08:50:11AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>> >> On Thu, Nov 01 2018, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Sat, Oc
On Sat, Nov 03, 2018 at 07:36:19PM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 02 2018, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Nov 02, 2018 at 08:50:11AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> >> On Thu, Nov 01 2018, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 02:10:10AM +0100, Josh Triplett wrote:
>
James Bottomley :
> Actually, I think this whole code vs people debate is a straw man and
> inherently inimical to the discussion. In neither code of conduct (old
> or new) is there any statement that allows one to make a value judgment
> of people relative to code, so the very premise you're all a
On Fri, Nov 02 2018, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 02, 2018 at 08:50:11AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 01 2018, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
>>
>> > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 02:10:10AM +0100, Josh Triplett wrote:
>> >> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 08:14:51AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>> >> >
On Fri, 2018-11-02 at 08:50 +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> Firstly, you gave an analytical response to what was, in my view, an
> emotional observation. While I agree with your analysis, it is
> largely irrelevant. It is not how people *feel* about kernel
> development.
>
> You say that the code
On Fri, Nov 02, 2018 at 08:50:11AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 01 2018, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 02:10:10AM +0100, Josh Triplett wrote:
> >> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 08:14:51AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> >> > On Wed, Oct 24 2018, Josh Triplett wrote:
> >> >
>
On Thu, Nov 01, 2018 at 02:11:53PM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 01, 2018 at 09:45:44AM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 02:10:10AM +0100, Josh Triplett wrote:
> > > Not when that document started out effectively saying, in an elaborate
> > > way, "code > peopl
On Thu, Nov 01 2018, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 02:10:10AM +0100, Josh Triplett wrote:
>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 08:14:51AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>> > On Wed, Oct 24 2018, Josh Triplett wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 07:26:06AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>> > >>
On Thu, Nov 01, 2018 at 09:45:44AM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 02:10:10AM +0100, Josh Triplett wrote:
> > Not when that document started out effectively saying, in an elaborate
> > way, "code > people".
>
> Interesting.
>
> I am curious what leads you to your "code >
On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 02:10:10AM +0100, Josh Triplett wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 08:14:51AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 24 2018, Josh Triplett wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 07:26:06AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> > >> On Sun, Oct 21 2018, Josh Triplett wrote:
> > >>
>
On Sat, Oct 27 2018, Josh Triplett wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 08:14:51AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 24 2018, Josh Triplett wrote:
>>
>> > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 07:26:06AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>> >> On Sun, Oct 21 2018, Josh Triplett wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Mon, Oct 22, 201
NeilBrown schrieb:
> On Fri, Oct 26 2018, Rainer Fiebig wrote:
>
>> NeilBrown schrieb:
>>> On Thu, Oct 25 2018, Rainer Fiebig wrote:
>>>
Am Montag, 22. Oktober 2018, 08:20:11 schrieb NeilBrown:
> On Sat, Oct 20 2018, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> As everyone knows
On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 08:14:51AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 24 2018, Josh Triplett wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 07:26:06AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> >> On Sun, Oct 21 2018, Josh Triplett wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 08:20:11AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> >> >> I c
On Fri, Oct 26 2018, Rainer Fiebig wrote:
> NeilBrown schrieb:
>> On Thu, Oct 25 2018, Rainer Fiebig wrote:
>>
>>> Am Montag, 22. Oktober 2018, 08:20:11 schrieb NeilBrown:
On Sat, Oct 20 2018, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As everyone knows by now, we added a new Code o
NeilBrown schrieb:
> On Thu, Oct 25 2018, Rainer Fiebig wrote:
>
>> Am Montag, 22. Oktober 2018, 08:20:11 schrieb NeilBrown:
>>> On Sat, Oct 20 2018, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
Hi all,
As everyone knows by now, we added a new Code of Conduct to the kernel
tree a few weeks ago.
>
On Thu, Oct 25 2018, Rainer Fiebig wrote:
> Am Montag, 22. Oktober 2018, 08:20:11 schrieb NeilBrown:
>> On Sat, Oct 20 2018, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > As everyone knows by now, we added a new Code of Conduct to the kernel
>> > tree a few weeks ago.
>>
>> I wanted to stay d
On Wed, Oct 24 2018, Laura Abbott wrote:
> On 10/21/2018 02:20 PM, NeilBrown wrote:
>
>
>
>> I call on the community to consider what *does* need to be said, about
>> conduct, to people outside the community and who have recently joined.
>> What is the document that you would have liked to have r
On Wed, Oct 24 2018, Josh Triplett wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 07:26:06AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>> On Sun, Oct 21 2018, Josh Triplett wrote:
>>
>> > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 08:20:11AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>> >> I call on you, Greg:
>> >> - to abandon this divisive attempt to impose a "
Am Montag, 22. Oktober 2018, 08:20:11 schrieb NeilBrown:
> On Sat, Oct 20 2018, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > As everyone knows by now, we added a new Code of Conduct to the kernel
> > tree a few weeks ago.
>
> I wanted to stay detached from all this, but as remaining (publicly)
>
On Mon 2018-10-22 08:20:11, NeilBrown wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 20 2018, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > As everyone knows by now, we added a new Code of Conduct to the kernel
> > tree a few weeks ago.
>
> I wanted to stay detached from all this, but as remaining (publicly)
> silent mi
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 07:26:06AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 21 2018, Josh Triplett wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 08:20:11AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> >> I call on you, Greg:
> >> - to abandon this divisive attempt to impose a "Code of Conduct"
> >> - to revert 8a104f8b5867c68
On 10/21/2018 02:20 PM, NeilBrown wrote:
I call on the community to consider what *does* need to be said, about
conduct, to people outside the community and who have recently joined.
What is the document that you would have liked to have read as you were
starting out? It is all too long ago f
On Tue, Oct 23 2018, Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 03:25:08PM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>>
>> Yes, you could, and you can. But if it was Linus who was behaving
>> inappropriately, where did you go then? This is why I think whatever
>> "code" we have should be overtly a stateme
On Tue, Oct 23 2018, Al Viro wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 04:28:03PM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>
>> > If that's a clarification, I'm sorry to say that I understand you even
>> > less now.
>> > What are you proposing? Duopoly? How do you deal with disagreements?
>> > Fork?
>> > Revert wars?
Theodore Y. Ts'o schrieb:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 04:22:54PM +0200, Rainer Fiebig wrote:
>>
>> And whether that CoC does come with a political agenda or is just being
>> *perceived* so, is irrelevant: the perception *is* the reality. And by
>> embracing this CoC, Linux is now being perceived as
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 04:22:54PM +0200, Rainer Fiebig wrote:
>
> And whether that CoC does come with a political agenda or is just being
> *perceived* so, is irrelevant: the perception *is* the reality. And by
> embracing this CoC, Linux is now being perceived as also supporting the
> agenda
Am Dienstag, 23. Oktober 2018, 04:11:44 schrieb Theodore Y. Ts'o:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 03:25:08PM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> > Yes, you could, and you can. But if it was Linus who was behaving
> > inappropriately, where did you go then? This is why I think whatever
> > "code" we have should b
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 03:25:08PM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>
> Yes, you could, and you can. But if it was Linus who was behaving
> inappropriately, where did you go then? This is why I think whatever
> "code" we have should be overtly a statement Linus makes about his
> behaviour, in the first i
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 07:40:51AM +0100, Al Viro wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 09:26:52AM +0300, Dan Carpenter wrote:
>
> > Ten years back there was a patch rejected because "F*** you, what do
> > women know about programming?" I can't imagine it happening now, but I
> > was so shocked by it
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 09:26:52AM +0300, Dan Carpenter wrote:
> Ten years back there was a patch rejected because "F*** you, what do
> women know about programming?" I can't imagine it happening now, but I
> was so shocked by it at the time also...
URL? I would really, honestly, no kidding, li
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 06:46:04PM -0400, Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote:
> Neil,
>
> I disagree with your framing, and thus your analysis, and thus your
> proposed solution.
>
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 07:26:06AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> > If, for example, Linus or Andrew said "if you cannot work with
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 04:28:03PM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> > If that's a clarification, I'm sorry to say that I understand you even less
> > now.
> > What are you proposing? Duopoly? How do you deal with disagreements?
> > Fork?
> > Revert wars?
>
> We already have team-maintainership arra
On Tue, Oct 23 2018, Al Viro wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 03:25:08PM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>
>> >> If Linus is not true to his new-found sensitivity, we might need someone
>> >> (Greg?) to be a co-maintainer, able to accept patches when Linus has a
>> >> relapse. It might be good form to cr
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 03:25:08PM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> >> If Linus is not true to his new-found sensitivity, we might need someone
> >> (Greg?) to be a co-maintainer, able to accept patches when Linus has a
> >> relapse. It might be good form to create this channel anyway, but I
> >> doubt
On Tue, Oct 23 2018, Al Viro wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 07:26:06AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>
>> Currently if a maintainer is rude to you, there is no where else that
>> you can go and *that* is why it hurts. It isn't the abuse so much as
>> the powerlessness associated with it. If you can
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 07:26:06AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> Currently if a maintainer is rude to you, there is no where else that
> you can go and *that* is why it hurts. It isn't the abuse so much as
> the powerlessness associated with it. If you can (metaphorically) say
> to that maintainer "
On Sun, Oct 21 2018, Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 11:26:08PM +0100, Josh Triplett wrote:
>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 08:20:11AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>> > I call on you, Greg:
>> > - to abandon this divisive attempt to impose a "Code of Conduct"
>> > - to revert 8a104f8b586
On Mon, Oct 22 2018, Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote:
> Neil,
>
> I disagree with your framing, and thus your analysis, and thus your
> proposed solution.
>
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 07:26:06AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>> If, for example, Linus or Andrew said "if you cannot work with any given
>> maintainer
Neil,
I disagree with your framing, and thus your analysis, and thus your
proposed solution.
On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 07:26:06AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> If, for example, Linus or Andrew said "if you cannot work with any given
> maintainer, I will consider your patch directly, but you need to poi
On Sun, Oct 21 2018, Josh Triplett wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 08:20:11AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>> I call on you, Greg:
>> - to abandon this divisive attempt to impose a "Code of Conduct"
>> - to revert 8a104f8b5867c68
>> - to return to your core competence of building a great team aroun
On Mon, 2018-10-22 at 08:20 +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 20 2018, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > As everyone knows by now, we added a new Code of Conduct to the
> > kernel tree a few weeks ago.
>
> I wanted to stay detached from all this, but as remaining (publicly)
> s
Am Montag, 22. Oktober 2018, 08:20:11 schrieb NeilBrown:
> On Sat, Oct 20 2018, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > As everyone knows by now, we added a new Code of Conduct to the kernel
> > tree a few weeks ago.
>
> I wanted to stay detached from all this, but as remaining (publicly)
On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 11:26:08PM +0100, Josh Triplett wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 08:20:11AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> > I call on you, Greg:
> > - to abandon this divisive attempt to impose a "Code of Conduct"
> > - to revert 8a104f8b5867c68
> > - to return to your core competence of bui
On 10/21/18 3:33 PM, Joe Perches wrote:
> On Mon, 2018-10-22 at 08:20 +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
>> On Sat, Oct 20 2018, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
>>> As everyone knows by now, we added a new Code of Conduct to the kernel
>>> tree a few weeks ago.
>>
>> I wanted to stay detached from all this, but as
On Mon, 2018-10-22 at 08:20 +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 20 2018, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> > As everyone knows by now, we added a new Code of Conduct to the kernel
> > tree a few weeks ago.
>
> I wanted to stay detached from all this, but as remaining (publicly)
> silent might be seen
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 08:20:11AM +1100, NeilBrown wrote:
> I call on you, Greg:
> - to abandon this divisive attempt to impose a "Code of Conduct"
> - to revert 8a104f8b5867c68
> - to return to your core competence of building a great team around
>a great kernel
>
> #Isupportreversion
>
On Sat, Oct 20 2018, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As everyone knows by now, we added a new Code of Conduct to the kernel
> tree a few weeks ago.
I wanted to stay detached from all this, but as remaining (publicly)
silent might be seen (publicly) as acquiescing, I hereby declare that:
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