Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
I simply crontab an ECN off period for five minutes every hour and flush the mail queue. David. Holger Lubitz wrote: >"H. Peter Anvin" wrote: > >>I suspect that the main way to get this thing fixed is to make sure >>ECN is enabled on the server side; for example, we have turned on ECN >>on kernel.org. If a user is using a broken software stack, it's their >>loss, not ours. >> > >This is what we do here, too. The only exceptions: Our mail server >(needs to deliver mail, even to broken sites) and our web proxy server >(also needs to connect to broken sites sometimes). Everything else is >ECN enabled. And this is the approach I'd suggest to anybody running 2.4 >servers. > - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
I simply crontab an ECN off period for five minutes every hour and flush the mail queue. David. Holger Lubitz wrote: H. Peter Anvin wrote: I suspect that the main way to get this thing fixed is to make sure ECN is enabled on the server side; for example, we have turned on ECN on kernel.org. If a user is using a broken software stack, it's their loss, not ours. This is what we do here, too. The only exceptions: Our mail server (needs to deliver mail, even to broken sites) and our web proxy server (also needs to connect to broken sites sometimes). Everything else is ECN enabled. And this is the approach I'd suggest to anybody running 2.4 servers. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
> I suspect that the main way to get this thing fixed is to make sure > ECN is enabled on the server side; for example, we have turned on ECN > on kernel.org. If a user is using a broken software stack, it's their > loss, not ours. I agree it's the server side that will eventuelly push it through, but don't expect miracles. I informed the sysadmins at the place where I work that ftp.kernel.org isn't reachable anymore for us, only to get a long reply full of reasons (some better than others) why they wouldn't act. The final statement was: "use one of the many ftp..kernel.org mirrors". MCE -- M. Eyckmans (MCE) Code of the Geeks v3.1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] GCS d+ s+:- a35 C+++$ UHLUASO+++$ P+ L+++ E--- W++ N+++ !o K w--- !O M-- V-- PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP- t--- !5 !X R- tv- b+ DI++ D-- G++ e+++ h+(*) !r y? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
"H. Peter Anvin" wrote: > I suspect that the main way to get this thing fixed is to make sure > ECN is enabled on the server side; for example, we have turned on ECN > on kernel.org. If a user is using a broken software stack, it's their > loss, not ours. This is what we do here, too. The only exceptions: Our mail server (needs to deliver mail, even to broken sites) and our web proxy server (also needs to connect to broken sites sometimes). Everything else is ECN enabled. And this is the approach I'd suggest to anybody running 2.4 servers. Holger - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
I suspect that the main way to get this thing fixed is to make sure ECN is enabled on the server side; for example, we have turned on ECN on kernel.org. If a user is using a broken software stack, it's their loss, not ours. I agree it's the server side that will eventuelly push it through, but don't expect miracles. I informed the sysadmins at the place where I work that ftp.kernel.org isn't reachable anymore for us, only to get a long reply full of reasons (some better than others) why they wouldn't act. The final statement was: use one of the many ftp.country.kernel.org mirrors. MCE -- M. Eyckmans (MCE) Code of the Geeks v3.1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] GCS d+ s+:- a35 C+++$ UHLUASO+++$ P+ L+++ E--- W++ N+++ !o K w--- !O M-- V-- PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP- t--- !5 !X R- tv- b+ DI++ D-- G++ e+++ h+(*) !r y? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
H. Peter Anvin wrote: I suspect that the main way to get this thing fixed is to make sure ECN is enabled on the server side; for example, we have turned on ECN on kernel.org. If a user is using a broken software stack, it's their loss, not ours. This is what we do here, too. The only exceptions: Our mail server (needs to deliver mail, even to broken sites) and our web proxy server (also needs to connect to broken sites sometimes). Everything else is ECN enabled. And this is the approach I'd suggest to anybody running 2.4 servers. Holger - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed :: AOL ::: Spam filter
On Wed, 9 May 2001, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:08:31PM -0400, God wrote: > > On Wed, 9 May 2001, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > > > > > 2) They certainly are. Every once in a while they go through a period of > > >silently dropping all email coming from hosts that don't have PTRs. > > >This would be no worse. > > > > ACK Which do you mean? : > > AFIK, mail which contains Path with host names which don't pass a two-way > check (forward, reverse the forward) AOL drops. Not always though, MX > records are irrelevantly. > OMG ... that .. is gay ... oh well should add them as a blocked domain anyway ... for all the dam spam that comes from them grrr - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:08:31PM -0400, God wrote: > On Wed, 9 May 2001, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > > > 2) They certainly are. Every once in a while they go through a period of > >silently dropping all email coming from hosts that don't have PTRs. > >This would be no worse. > > ACK Which do you mean? : > > -Hosts that don't have valid PTRs (which would be no PTR at all -- Not > deliverable, but not because AOL said so) > > -Hosts that don't have valid PTRs, but DO have at least one valid MX > (Forward and reverse) > > -Same as above, but said hosts MX's forward and/or reverse don't match > > etc etc I ask this simply because I DO know of users who have > complained their E-Mail to/from an AOL customer, didn't get there. I've > always assumed .. well ... AOL user .. no comment :) AFIK, mail which contains Path with host names which don't pass a two-way check (forward, reverse the forward) AOL drops. Not always though, MX records are irrelevantly. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
Followup to: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> By author:God <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> In newsgroup: linux.dev.kernel > > Agreed. For now ECN has been disabled here. I got tired of so many sites > not supporting it that I gave up. Maybe by 2.8.x kernels it will be worth > turning back on. Thats not to say however that I don't like what the ECN > people are trying to do, rather its causing me more grief with it on, then > the grief I get with it off. > I suspect that the main way to get this thing fixed is to make sure ECN is enabled on the server side; for example, we have turned on ECN on kernel.org. If a user is using a broken software stack, it's their loss, not ours. -hpa -- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> at work, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> in private! "Unix gives you enough rope to shoot yourself in the foot." http://www.zytor.com/~hpa/puzzle.txt - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
On Wed, 9 May 2001, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > 2) They certainly are. Every once in a while they go through a period of >silently dropping all email coming from hosts that don't have PTRs. >This would be no worse. ACK Which do you mean? : -Hosts that don't have valid PTRs (which would be no PTR at all -- Not deliverable, but not because AOL said so) -Hosts that don't have valid PTRs, but DO have at least one valid MX (Forward and reverse) -Same as above, but said hosts MX's forward and/or reverse don't match etc etc I ask this simply because I DO know of users who have complained their E-Mail to/from an AOL customer, didn't get there. I've always assumed .. well ... AOL user .. no comment :) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
On Wed, 9 May 2001, Pekka Savola wrote: > To: Matthew Geier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > On Wed, 9 May 2001, Matthew Geier wrote: > > > Help is needed to contact these site owners and politely using a standard > > > email ask them that their site was non-conformant. [snip] > > > > > > I tried to get my local bank to fix their internet banking service about a > > month ago. I ran into a 'brick wall'. They only support Windows and MacOS, > > since neither currently implement ECN, they don't have a problem :-( [snip] > > There are a couple of ways to deal with these: > > Try to get in touch with someone who is a network admin; [snip] In most cases, good luck. Though as you pointed out, checking RIPE might help. I mentioned in here (kernel list) about dogpile.com not supporting it. I've tried to contact their administrators with no luck. > .. Let's not start a huge thread (especially with this big Cc: list; there > should be a smaller forum to discuss this if necessary) on this though. Agreed. For now ECN has been disabled here. I got tired of so many sites not supporting it that I gave up. Maybe by 2.8.x kernels it will be worth turning back on. Thats not to say however that I don't like what the ECN people are trying to do, rather its causing me more grief with it on, then the grief I get with it off. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 10:10:29AM -0400, Horst von Brand wrote: > Gregory Maxwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > [...] > > > Anyone have any friends at AOL? I wonder what the effect on these > > non-conformant sites would be if AOL's proxy's became ECN enabled? > > And AOL is sure crazy enough to "break compatibility with everybody" just > out of courtesy to someone's friend call. > > Get real, it _won't_ happen unless they are forced to do so. Standard or > not. 1) It's not everybody. 2) They certainly are. Every once in a while they go through a period of silently dropping all email coming from hosts that don't have PTRs. This would be no worse. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
Gregory Maxwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: [...] > Anyone have any friends at AOL? I wonder what the effect on these > non-conformant sites would be if AOL's proxy's became ECN enabled? And AOL is sure crazy enough to "break compatibility with everybody" just out of courtesy to someone's friend call. Get real, it _won't_ happen unless they are forced to do so. Standard or not. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, ChileFax: +56 32 797513 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 10:31:23PM -0400, jamal wrote: > Folks, > > ECN is about to become a Proposed Standard RFC. Thanks to > efforts from the Linux community, a few issues were discovered > in the course of deploying the code. Special kudos go to Alexey > Kuznetsov and David Miller. [snip] Anyone have any friends at AOL? I wonder what the effect on these non-conformant sites would be if AOL's proxy's became ECN enabled? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
On Wed, 9 May 2001, Matthew Geier wrote: > > This is to solicit volunteers who will help removing the remaining cruft. > > Some vendors (special positive mention goes to CISCO) have released > > patches which are unfortunately not being propagated by some of the > > site owners. > > Help is needed to contact these site owners and politely using a standard > > email ask them that their site was non-conformant. > > > I tried to get my local bank to fix their internet banking service about a > month ago. I ran into a 'brick wall'. They only support Windows and MacOS, > since neither currently implement ECN, they don't have a problem :-( > > The only answer I got is 'we don't support Linux'. The operator tried > to find some one interested in the network, but the answer was always > the same. 'We don't support.' [snip] There are a couple of ways to deal with these: 0) speak to the right persons: don't expect helpdesk can do anything about these, especially don't expect anyone to "call you back". Try to get in touch with someone who is a network admin; if the bank is not a kiosk with tiny amount of money in the safe, a whois database e.g. RIPE might give some clues. If helpdesk/network admin is clueless, ask to speak with their supervisor. 1) vote with your feet: switch the bank. This is how modern economy works; money is power. Make sure they know you switched (or intend to switch) banks, and why. Make sure their boss, and the person somewhat in charge of handling customer relations, knows it. 2) make it (more) public: if there are potentially more people in the area who this would concern, making this public, and causing the bank a potential loss of 50 customers, not 1, might wake them to the reality. 3) forget about it: just don't enable ECN. And lastly: do not make them think of this as a Linux problem. Their software breaks Internet standards (soon, anyway :), and eventually they will be shut out. In many cases, the fix is free and easily installable. .. Let's not start a huge thread (especially with this big Cc: list; there should be a smaller forum to discuss this if necessary) on this though. -- Pekka Savola "Tell me of difficulties surmounted, Netcore Oy not those you stumble over and fall" Systems. Networks. Security. -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
> This is to solicit volunteers who will help removing the remaining cruft. > Some vendors (special positive mention goes to CISCO) have released > patches which are unfortunately not being propagated by some of the > site owners. > Help is needed to contact these site owners and politely using a standard > email ask them that their site was non-conformant. I tried to get my local bank to fix their internet banking service about a month ago. I ran into a 'brick wall'. They only support Windows and MacOS, since neither currently implement ECN, they don't have a problem :-( The only answer I got is 'we don't support Linux'. The operator tried to find some one interested in the network, but the answer was always the same. 'We don't support.' They actually suggested I 'upgrade' my browser at one point! Their service actually works perfectly with Netscape and Linux 2.4.x (as long as ECN is disabled). - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
Gregory Maxwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: [...] Anyone have any friends at AOL? I wonder what the effect on these non-conformant sites would be if AOL's proxy's became ECN enabled? And AOL is sure crazy enough to break compatibility with everybody just out of courtesy to someone's friend call. Get real, it _won't_ happen unless they are forced to do so. Standard or not. -- Dr. Horst H. von Brand mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Departamento de Informatica Fono: +56 32 654431 Universidad Tecnica Federico Santa Maria +56 32 654239 Casilla 110-V, Valparaiso, ChileFax: +56 32 797513 - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
This is to solicit volunteers who will help removing the remaining cruft. Some vendors (special positive mention goes to CISCO) have released patches which are unfortunately not being propagated by some of the site owners. Help is needed to contact these site owners and politely using a standard email ask them that their site was non-conformant. I tried to get my local bank to fix their internet banking service about a month ago. I ran into a 'brick wall'. They only support Windows and MacOS, since neither currently implement ECN, they don't have a problem :-( The only answer I got is 'we don't support Linux'. The operator tried to find some one interested in the network, but the answer was always the same. 'We don't support.' They actually suggested I 'upgrade' my browser at one point! Their service actually works perfectly with Netscape and Linux 2.4.x (as long as ECN is disabled). - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
On Wed, 9 May 2001, Pekka Savola wrote: To: Matthew Geier [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, 9 May 2001, Matthew Geier wrote: Help is needed to contact these site owners and politely using a standard email ask them that their site was non-conformant. [snip] I tried to get my local bank to fix their internet banking service about a month ago. I ran into a 'brick wall'. They only support Windows and MacOS, since neither currently implement ECN, they don't have a problem :-( [snip] There are a couple of ways to deal with these: Try to get in touch with someone who is a network admin; [snip] In most cases, good luck. Though as you pointed out, checking RIPE might help. I mentioned in here (kernel list) about dogpile.com not supporting it. I've tried to contact their administrators with no luck. .. Let's not start a huge thread (especially with this big Cc: list; there should be a smaller forum to discuss this if necessary) on this though. Agreed. For now ECN has been disabled here. I got tired of so many sites not supporting it that I gave up. Maybe by 2.8.x kernels it will be worth turning back on. Thats not to say however that I don't like what the ECN people are trying to do, rather its causing me more grief with it on, then the grief I get with it off. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
On Wed, 9 May 2001, Matthew Geier wrote: This is to solicit volunteers who will help removing the remaining cruft. Some vendors (special positive mention goes to CISCO) have released patches which are unfortunately not being propagated by some of the site owners. Help is needed to contact these site owners and politely using a standard email ask them that their site was non-conformant. I tried to get my local bank to fix their internet banking service about a month ago. I ran into a 'brick wall'. They only support Windows and MacOS, since neither currently implement ECN, they don't have a problem :-( The only answer I got is 'we don't support Linux'. The operator tried to find some one interested in the network, but the answer was always the same. 'We don't support.' [snip] There are a couple of ways to deal with these: 0) speak to the right persons: don't expect helpdesk can do anything about these, especially don't expect anyone to call you back. Try to get in touch with someone who is a network admin; if the bank is not a kiosk with tiny amount of money in the safe, a whois database e.g. RIPE might give some clues. If helpdesk/network admin is clueless, ask to speak with their supervisor. 1) vote with your feet: switch the bank. This is how modern economy works; money is power. Make sure they know you switched (or intend to switch) banks, and why. Make sure their boss, and the person somewhat in charge of handling customer relations, knows it. 2) make it (more) public: if there are potentially more people in the area who this would concern, making this public, and causing the bank a potential loss of 50 customers, not 1, might wake them to the reality. 3) forget about it: just don't enable ECN. And lastly: do not make them think of this as a Linux problem. Their software breaks Internet standards (soon, anyway :), and eventually they will be shut out. In many cases, the fix is free and easily installable. .. Let's not start a huge thread (especially with this big Cc: list; there should be a smaller forum to discuss this if necessary) on this though. -- Pekka Savola Tell me of difficulties surmounted, Netcore Oy not those you stumble over and fall Systems. Networks. Security. -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
On Wed, 9 May 2001, Gregory Maxwell wrote: 2) They certainly are. Every once in a while they go through a period of silently dropping all email coming from hosts that don't have PTRs. This would be no worse. ACK Which do you mean? : -Hosts that don't have valid PTRs (which would be no PTR at all -- Not deliverable, but not because AOL said so) -Hosts that don't have valid PTRs, but DO have at least one valid MX (Forward and reverse) -Same as above, but said hosts MX's forward and/or reverse don't match etc etc I ask this simply because I DO know of users who have complained their E-Mail to/from an AOL customer, didn't get there. I've always assumed .. well ... AOL user .. no comment :) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 10:31:23PM -0400, jamal wrote: Folks, ECN is about to become a Proposed Standard RFC. Thanks to efforts from the Linux community, a few issues were discovered in the course of deploying the code. Special kudos go to Alexey Kuznetsov and David Miller. [snip] Anyone have any friends at AOL? I wonder what the effect on these non-conformant sites would be if AOL's proxy's became ECN enabled? - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
Followup to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] By author:God [EMAIL PROTECTED] In newsgroup: linux.dev.kernel Agreed. For now ECN has been disabled here. I got tired of so many sites not supporting it that I gave up. Maybe by 2.8.x kernels it will be worth turning back on. Thats not to say however that I don't like what the ECN people are trying to do, rather its causing me more grief with it on, then the grief I get with it off. I suspect that the main way to get this thing fixed is to make sure ECN is enabled on the server side; for example, we have turned on ECN on kernel.org. If a user is using a broken software stack, it's their loss, not ours. -hpa -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] at work, [EMAIL PROTECTED] in private! Unix gives you enough rope to shoot yourself in the foot. http://www.zytor.com/~hpa/puzzle.txt - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed :: AOL ::: Spam filter
On Wed, 9 May 2001, Gregory Maxwell wrote: On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:08:31PM -0400, God wrote: On Wed, 9 May 2001, Gregory Maxwell wrote: 2) They certainly are. Every once in a while they go through a period of silently dropping all email coming from hosts that don't have PTRs. This would be no worse. ACK Which do you mean? : AFIK, mail which contains Path with host names which don't pass a two-way check (forward, reverse the forward) AOL drops. Not always though, MX records are irrelevantly. OMG ... that .. is gay ... oh well should add them as a blocked domain anyway ... for all the dam spam that comes from them grrr /thread - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:08:31PM -0400, God wrote: On Wed, 9 May 2001, Gregory Maxwell wrote: 2) They certainly are. Every once in a while they go through a period of silently dropping all email coming from hosts that don't have PTRs. This would be no worse. ACK Which do you mean? : -Hosts that don't have valid PTRs (which would be no PTR at all -- Not deliverable, but not because AOL said so) -Hosts that don't have valid PTRs, but DO have at least one valid MX (Forward and reverse) -Same as above, but said hosts MX's forward and/or reverse don't match etc etc I ask this simply because I DO know of users who have complained their E-Mail to/from an AOL customer, didn't get there. I've always assumed .. well ... AOL user .. no comment :) AFIK, mail which contains Path with host names which don't pass a two-way check (forward, reverse the forward) AOL drops. Not always though, MX records are irrelevantly. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 10:10:29AM -0400, Horst von Brand wrote: Gregory Maxwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: [...] Anyone have any friends at AOL? I wonder what the effect on these non-conformant sites would be if AOL's proxy's became ECN enabled? And AOL is sure crazy enough to break compatibility with everybody just out of courtesy to someone's friend call. Get real, it _won't_ happen unless they are forced to do so. Standard or not. 1) It's not everybody. 2) They certainly are. Every once in a while they go through a period of silently dropping all email coming from hosts that don't have PTRs. This would be no worse. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
> This was the big argument I was running into from sites, "well it > isn't standard yet, when it is we'll do something about it". The > larger sites like to avoid updates until absolutely necessary. Good grief - nothing like planning ahead ... and these large-site administrators actually accept paychecks for their lack of foresight? Billy - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
On Tue, 8 May 2001, jamal wrote: > Any one wishing to volunteer, please still send your emails in -- > we should be ready in a few days from now, > I guess i should have mentioned the IESG is sitting in to approve ECN as proposed standard in about a week or so. cheers, jamal - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
On Tue, 8 May 2001, David S. Miller wrote: > > I believe it would only be prudent to actually send out these messages > starting at the moment ECN is officially standard. > > This was the big argument I was running into from sites, "well it > isn't standard yet, when it is we'll do something about it". The > larger sites like to avoid updates until absolutely necessary. > > If we are to improve ECN deployment, we should understand the > priorities of the people who run the sites which stand in the way > of our doing so. > Sally new draft: ftp://ftp.normos.org/ietf/internet-drafts/draft-floyd-tcp-reset-00.txt builds a strong case against the RST issue and maybe used to point to problems despite ECN. But you are right, it will be stronger and wiser to wait until this is standardized before paying a visit to the site owners. Any one wishing to volunteer, please still send your emails in -- we should be ready in a few days from now, cheers, jamal - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
jamal writes: > Help is needed to contact these site owners and politely using a standard > email ask them that their site was non-conformant. > Point them to Sally's draft and the fact that ECN is becoming standard > in the next week or so. Also to Jeff's ECN-under-Linux Unofficial > Vendor Support Page, and to encourage them to have their firewall > or load-balancer upgraded. > I suppose the first volunteer needed is to draft such an email. We have to > be polite and persistent for this to work. I believe it would only be prudent to actually send out these messages starting at the moment ECN is officially standard. This was the big argument I was running into from sites, "well it isn't standard yet, when it is we'll do something about it". The larger sites like to avoid updates until absolutely necessary. If we are to improve ECN deployment, we should understand the priorities of the people who run the sites which stand in the way of our doing so. Later, David S. Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
ECN: Volunteers needed
Folks, ECN is about to become a Proposed Standard RFC. Thanks to efforts from the Linux community, a few issues were discovered in the course of deploying the code. Special kudos go to Alexey Kuznetsov and David Miller. I wont go into details of the issues other than to say some midlle-box vendors in the past have associated the semantics of the natural-language English word "reserved" to have a different meaning. visit Jeff Garzik's ECN-under-Linux Unofficial Vendor Support Page at: http://gtf.org/garzik/ecn/ for more details Sally Floyd explains best why it is wrong for vendors of middle boxes to be doing this in the draft to be found at: ftp://ftp.normos.org/ietf/internet-drafts/draft-floyd-tcp-reset-00.txt So why am i posting this? This is to solicit volunteers who will help removing the remaining cruft. Some vendors (special positive mention goes to CISCO) have released patches which are unfortunately not being propagated by some of the site owners. Help is needed to contact these site owners and politely using a standard email ask them that their site was non-conformant. Point them to Sally's draft and the fact that ECN is becoming standard in the next week or so. Also to Jeff's ECN-under-Linux Unofficial Vendor Support Page, and to encourage them to have their firewall or load-balancer upgraded. I suppose the first volunteer needed is to draft such an email. We have to be polite and persistent for this to work. Jitendra Padhye at ACIRI is running weekly tests to detect offending sites. Most recent results can be found at: http://www.aciri.org/tbit/ecn_test3A.html Any site with the word "RST" on the line should be considered non-conformant. Volunteers please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with subject "interested in volunteering" Flames etc please redirect to netdev (since that's the only list i am on). as well make sure you cc the other people (other than linux-kernel and linux-net) cheers, jamal - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
ECN: Volunteers needed
Folks, ECN is about to become a Proposed Standard RFC. Thanks to efforts from the Linux community, a few issues were discovered in the course of deploying the code. Special kudos go to Alexey Kuznetsov and David Miller. I wont go into details of the issues other than to say some midlle-box vendors in the past have associated the semantics of the natural-language English word reserved to have a different meaning. visit Jeff Garzik's ECN-under-Linux Unofficial Vendor Support Page at: http://gtf.org/garzik/ecn/ for more details Sally Floyd explains best why it is wrong for vendors of middle boxes to be doing this in the draft to be found at: ftp://ftp.normos.org/ietf/internet-drafts/draft-floyd-tcp-reset-00.txt So why am i posting this? This is to solicit volunteers who will help removing the remaining cruft. Some vendors (special positive mention goes to CISCO) have released patches which are unfortunately not being propagated by some of the site owners. Help is needed to contact these site owners and politely using a standard email ask them that their site was non-conformant. Point them to Sally's draft and the fact that ECN is becoming standard in the next week or so. Also to Jeff's ECN-under-Linux Unofficial Vendor Support Page, and to encourage them to have their firewall or load-balancer upgraded. I suppose the first volunteer needed is to draft such an email. We have to be polite and persistent for this to work. Jitendra Padhye at ACIRI is running weekly tests to detect offending sites. Most recent results can be found at: http://www.aciri.org/tbit/ecn_test3A.html Any site with the word RST on the line should be considered non-conformant. Volunteers please send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with subject interested in volunteering Flames etc please redirect to netdev (since that's the only list i am on). as well make sure you cc the other people (other than linux-kernel and linux-net) cheers, jamal - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
This was the big argument I was running into from sites, well it isn't standard yet, when it is we'll do something about it. The larger sites like to avoid updates until absolutely necessary. Good grief - nothing like planning ahead ... and these large-site administrators actually accept paychecks for their lack of foresight? Billy - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
On Tue, 8 May 2001, jamal wrote: Any one wishing to volunteer, please still send your emails in -- we should be ready in a few days from now, I guess i should have mentioned the IESG is sitting in to approve ECN as proposed standard in about a week or so. cheers, jamal - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
jamal writes: Help is needed to contact these site owners and politely using a standard email ask them that their site was non-conformant. Point them to Sally's draft and the fact that ECN is becoming standard in the next week or so. Also to Jeff's ECN-under-Linux Unofficial Vendor Support Page, and to encourage them to have their firewall or load-balancer upgraded. I suppose the first volunteer needed is to draft such an email. We have to be polite and persistent for this to work. I believe it would only be prudent to actually send out these messages starting at the moment ECN is officially standard. This was the big argument I was running into from sites, well it isn't standard yet, when it is we'll do something about it. The larger sites like to avoid updates until absolutely necessary. If we are to improve ECN deployment, we should understand the priorities of the people who run the sites which stand in the way of our doing so. Later, David S. Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Re: ECN: Volunteers needed
On Tue, 8 May 2001, David S. Miller wrote: I believe it would only be prudent to actually send out these messages starting at the moment ECN is officially standard. This was the big argument I was running into from sites, well it isn't standard yet, when it is we'll do something about it. The larger sites like to avoid updates until absolutely necessary. If we are to improve ECN deployment, we should understand the priorities of the people who run the sites which stand in the way of our doing so. Sally new draft: ftp://ftp.normos.org/ietf/internet-drafts/draft-floyd-tcp-reset-00.txt builds a strong case against the RST issue and maybe used to point to problems despite ECN. But you are right, it will be stronger and wiser to wait until this is standardized before paying a visit to the site owners. Any one wishing to volunteer, please still send your emails in -- we should be ready in a few days from now, cheers, jamal - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
