Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-27 Thread Alexandre Belloni
On 27/08/2019 18:27:32+0200, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 8:58 PM Alexandre Belloni > wrote: > > > > On 19/08/2019 13:09:03+0200, Karel Zak wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 11:32:08AM +0200, Alexandre Belloni wrote: > > > > On 14/08/2019 11:09:36+0200, Lennart Poettering

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-27 Thread Arnd Bergmann
On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 8:58 PM Alexandre Belloni wrote: > > On 19/08/2019 13:09:03+0200, Karel Zak wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 11:32:08AM +0200, Alexandre Belloni wrote: > > > On 14/08/2019 11:09:36+0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > > > On Mi, 14.08.19 10:31, Arnd Bergmann

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-20 Thread Alexandre Belloni
On 19/08/2019 13:09:03+0200, Karel Zak wrote: > On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 11:32:08AM +0200, Alexandre Belloni wrote: > > On 14/08/2019 11:09:36+0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > > On Mi, 14.08.19 10:31, Arnd Bergmann (a...@arndb.de) wrote: > > > > > > > - glibc stops passing the caller timezone

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-20 Thread Alexandre Belloni
On 19/08/2019 15:43:03+0200, Thomas Gleixner wrote: > On Mon, 19 Aug 2019, Karel Zak wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 11:32:08AM +0200, Alexandre Belloni wrote: > > > On 14/08/2019 11:09:36+0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > > > On Mi, 14.08.19 10:31, Arnd Bergmann (a...@arndb.de) wrote: > > >

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-20 Thread Alexandre Belloni
On 19/08/2019 15:49:24+0200, Thomas Gleixner wrote: > On Mon, 19 Aug 2019, Thomas Gleixner wrote: > > On Mon, 19 Aug 2019, Karel Zak wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 11:32:08AM +0200, Alexandre Belloni wrote: > > > > On 14/08/2019 11:09:36+0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > > > > On Mi,

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-19 Thread Thomas Gleixner
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019, Thomas Gleixner wrote: > On Mon, 19 Aug 2019, Karel Zak wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 11:32:08AM +0200, Alexandre Belloni wrote: > > > On 14/08/2019 11:09:36+0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > > > On Mi, 14.08.19 10:31, Arnd Bergmann (a...@arndb.de) wrote: > > > > > > >

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-19 Thread Thomas Gleixner
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019, Karel Zak wrote: > On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 11:32:08AM +0200, Alexandre Belloni wrote: > > On 14/08/2019 11:09:36+0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > > On Mi, 14.08.19 10:31, Arnd Bergmann (a...@arndb.de) wrote: > > > > > > > - glibc stops passing the caller timezone argument

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-19 Thread Karel Zak
On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 11:32:08AM +0200, Alexandre Belloni wrote: > On 14/08/2019 11:09:36+0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > On Mi, 14.08.19 10:31, Arnd Bergmann (a...@arndb.de) wrote: > > > > > - glibc stops passing the caller timezone argument to the kernel > > > - the distro kernel disables

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-15 Thread hpa
On August 15, 2019 8:05:30 AM PDT, "Theodore Y. Ts'o" wrote: >On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 03:22:45PM +0200, Arnd Bergmann wrote: >> If 64-bit Windows relies on a working EFI RTC implementation, we >could >> decide to leave the driver enabled on 64-bit and only disable it for >> 32-bit EFI. That way,

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-15 Thread Theodore Y. Ts'o
On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 03:22:45PM +0200, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > If 64-bit Windows relies on a working EFI RTC implementation, we could > decide to leave the driver enabled on 64-bit and only disable it for > 32-bit EFI. That way, future distros would no longer have to worry about > the localtime

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-15 Thread Arnd Bergmann
On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 6:48 PM wrote: > > I believe Windows 10 changed the default RTC to UTC, although perhaps > only if running under UEFI. I looked at the efi rtc driver now, and found two things: - The EFI get_time() call passes down timezone information, so we know what UTC is, and can

RE: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-14 Thread hpa
On August 14, 2019 9:26:36 AM PDT, David Laight wrote: >From: Theodore Y. Ts'o >> Sent: 14 August 2019 01:06 >> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:30:34AM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote: >> > >> > I suspect the only actual _valid_ use in the kernel for a time zone >> > setting is likely for RTC clock

RE: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-14 Thread David Laight
From: Theodore Y. Ts'o > Sent: 14 August 2019 01:06 > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:30:34AM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > > > I suspect the only actual _valid_ use in the kernel for a time zone > > setting is likely for RTC clock setting, but even that isn't really > > "global", as much as "per

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-14 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mi, 14.08.19 11:32, Alexandre Belloni (alexandre.bell...@bootlin.com) wrote: > On 14/08/2019 11:09:36+0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > On Mi, 14.08.19 10:31, Arnd Bergmann (a...@arndb.de) wrote: > > > > > - glibc stops passing the caller timezone argument to the kernel > > > - the distro

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-14 Thread Alexandre Belloni
On 14/08/2019 11:09:36+0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Mi, 14.08.19 10:31, Arnd Bergmann (a...@arndb.de) wrote: > > > - glibc stops passing the caller timezone argument to the kernel > > - the distro kernel disables CONFIG_RTC_HCTOSYS, > > CONFIG_RTC_SYSTOHC and CONFIG_GENERIC_CMOS_UPDATE

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-14 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mi, 14.08.19 10:31, Arnd Bergmann (a...@arndb.de) wrote: > - glibc stops passing the caller timezone argument to the kernel > - the distro kernel disables CONFIG_RTC_HCTOSYS, > CONFIG_RTC_SYSTOHC and CONFIG_GENERIC_CMOS_UPDATE What's the benefit of letting userspace do this? It sounds a

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-14 Thread Arnd Bergmann
On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 2:06 AM Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:30:34AM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > > > I suspect the only actual _valid_ use in the kernel for a time zone > > setting is likely for RTC clock setting, but even that isn't really > > "global", as much as

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-13 Thread Theodore Y. Ts'o
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:30:34AM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > I suspect the only actual _valid_ use in the kernel for a time zone > setting is likely for RTC clock setting, but even that isn't really > "global", as much as "per RTC". As I recall (and I may or may not have been original for

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-13 Thread Alexandre Belloni
On 13/08/2019 10:30:34-0700, Linus Torvalds wrote: > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:06 AM Arnd Bergmann wrote: > > > > * Should we allow setting the sys_tz on new architectures that use only > > time64 interfaces at all, or should we try to get away from that anyway? > > We should not do TZ on a

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-13 Thread Alexandre Belloni
On 13/08/2019 10:10:53-0700, John Stultz wrote: > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:06 AM Arnd Bergmann wrote: > > Now, to the actual questions: > > > > * Should we allow setting the sys_tz on new architectures that use only > > time64 interfaces at all, or should we try to get away from that anyway? >

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-13 Thread Arnd Bergmann
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 9:31 PM Florian Weimer wrote: > * Paul Eggert: > > Linus Torvalds wrote: > >> I assume/think that glibc uses (a) environment > >> variables and (b) a filesystem-set default (per-user file with a > >> system-wide default? I don't know what people do). > > > glibc relies on

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-13 Thread Florian Weimer
* Paul Eggert: > Linus Torvalds wrote: >> I assume/think that glibc uses (a) environment >> variables and (b) a filesystem-set default (per-user file with a >> system-wide default? I don't know what people do). > glibc relies on the TZ environment variable, with a system-wide > default specified

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-13 Thread Paul Eggert
Linus Torvalds wrote: I assume/think that glibc uses (a) environment variables and (b) a filesystem-set default (per-user file with a system-wide default? I don't know what people do). glibc relies on the TZ environment variable, with a system-wide default specified in /etc/localtime or

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-13 Thread Linus Torvalds
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:06 AM Arnd Bergmann wrote: > > * Should we allow setting the sys_tz on new architectures that use only > time64 interfaces at all, or should we try to get away from that anyway? We should not do TZ on a kernel level at all. At least not a global one. It makes no

Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?

2019-08-13 Thread John Stultz
On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:06 AM Arnd Bergmann wrote: > Now, to the actual questions: > > * Should we allow setting the sys_tz on new architectures that use only > time64 interfaces at all, or should we try to get away from that anyway? So I'd probably cut this question a bit differently: 1)