Hi,
just a short comment.
I think, this snippet shows the key point in this argument:
At 15.07.2013 21:53 CEST +02:00 Sarah Sharp wrote:
> Good lord. So anyone that is one of your "top maintainers" could be
> exposed to your verbal abuse just because they "should have known
> better"?
>
> You
Hi,
just a short comment.
I think, this snippet shows the key point in this argument:
At 15.07.2013 21:53 CEST +02:00 Sarah Sharp wrote:
Good lord. So anyone that is one of your top maintainers could be
exposed to your verbal abuse just because they should have known
better?
You know
Hi Sarah,
kinda reminds me of... baboons... its natural among mammals i guess...
Why hierarchy creates a destructive force within the human psyche (by
dr. Robert Sapolsky)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4UMyTnlaMY=share
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Sarah Sharp
wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Jul
Hi Sarah,
kinda reminds me of... baboons... its natural among mammals i guess...
Why hierarchy creates a destructive force within the human psyche (by
dr. Robert Sapolsky)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4UMyTnlaMYfeature=share
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Sarah Sharp
Mike,
I do want to partially apologize to Sarah for my first email. That
was really much tongue in cheek to express what happens when things
get too polite
and professional and hope she wasn't too offended. I saw Sarah's last post
> Which means you're likely not invited to the annual mud-wrestling and toga
party where this topic has been scheduled for further discussion.
> This thread and its offspring have been declared dead on LKML, we're in
kernel development mode again.
> -Mike
That's okay. Just wanted to express
On Mon, 2013-07-22 at 21:42 -0400, Regina Obe wrote:
> Linus,
> I want to start off by saying, though I'm mostly a windows developer,
Which means you're likely not invited to the annual mud-wrestling and
toga party where this topic has been scheduled for further discussion.
This thread and its
I wanted to take Sarah up on her offer to pay my respects for the
great work she is doing to bring civility to the LKLM community
as detailed in http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel=137390362508794
Linus,
I want to start off by saying, though I'm mostly a windows developer,
I've gained a whole new
On 07/22/2013 09:02 PM, Luck, Tony wrote:
> Some thoughts on the format of the discussion at KS:
>
> ...
>
5) Volunteers are under-represented at Kernel Summit
Volunteers are the "dark matter" of Linux Kernel contribution. They are
not the "usual suspects" who nearly all have full time jobs
On 07/18/2013 03:54 PM, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> Let's shift this discussion away from the terms "abuse" and
> "professionalism" to "respect" and "civility".
And Daniel Philips replied:
> Brilliant, and +1 for a session at KS. In the mean time, why don't we
> all try to demonstrate the real meaning
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 02:44:21PM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 04:03:24PM -0400, Kurt H Maier wrote:
>
> Come to KS! You're more than welcome to discuss this with us there.
>
Thanks for the invitation, but those events don't fit into my schedule.
I hope in my absence
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 02:44:21PM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 04:03:24PM -0400, Kurt H Maier wrote:
Come to KS! You're more than welcome to discuss this with us there.
Thanks for the invitation, but those events don't fit into my schedule.
I hope in my absence
On 07/18/2013 03:54 PM, Sarah Sharp wrote:
Let's shift this discussion away from the terms abuse and
professionalism to respect and civility.
And Daniel Philips replied:
Brilliant, and +1 for a session at KS. In the mean time, why don't we
all try to demonstrate the real meaning of respect
On 07/22/2013 09:02 PM, Luck, Tony wrote:
Some thoughts on the format of the discussion at KS:
...
5) Volunteers are under-represented at Kernel Summit
Volunteers are the dark matter of Linux Kernel contribution. They are
not the usual suspects who nearly all have full time jobs now,
I wanted to take Sarah up on her offer to pay my respects for the
great work she is doing to bring civility to the LKLM community
as detailed in http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernelm=137390362508794
Linus,
I want to start off by saying, though I'm mostly a windows developer,
I've gained a whole new
On Mon, 2013-07-22 at 21:42 -0400, Regina Obe wrote:
Linus,
I want to start off by saying, though I'm mostly a windows developer,
Which means you're likely not invited to the annual mud-wrestling and
toga party where this topic has been scheduled for further discussion.
This thread and its
Which means you're likely not invited to the annual mud-wrestling and toga
party where this topic has been scheduled for further discussion.
This thread and its offspring have been declared dead on LKML, we're in
kernel development mode again.
-Mike
That's okay. Just wanted to express my
Mike,
I do want to partially apologize to Sarah for my first email. That
was really much tongue in cheek to express what happens when things
get too polite
and professional and hope she wasn't too offended. I saw Sarah's last post
On 07/15/2013 09:01:56 PM, Joe Perches wrote:
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 11:54 +1000, NeilBrown wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:50:52 -0700 Joe Perches
wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 09:42 +1000, NeilBrown wrote:
> > > Being "polite" without being "nice" is quite possible.
> > > It even has a
On 07/15/2013 09:01:56 PM, Joe Perches wrote:
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 11:54 +1000, NeilBrown wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:50:52 -0700 Joe Perches j...@perches.com
wrote:
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 09:42 +1000, NeilBrown wrote:
Being polite without being nice is quite possible.
It even has
On 07/18/2013 03:54 PM, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> Let's shift this discussion away from the terms "abuse" and
> "professionalism" to "respect" and "civility".
Brilliant, and +1 for a session at KS. In the mean time, why don't we
all try to demonstrate the real meaning of respect and civility, by
On 07/18/2013 03:54 PM, Sarah Sharp wrote:
Let's shift this discussion away from the terms abuse and
professionalism to respect and civility.
Brilliant, and +1 for a session at KS. In the mean time, why don't we
all try to demonstrate the real meaning of respect and civility, by
practising it
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 04:03:24PM -0400, Kurt H Maier wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:01:27PM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> >
> > I'm not trying to shut down this discussion. But please, let's continue
> > this discussion at KS, away from the court of public opinion. I would
> > love for
* Rob Landley wrote:
> On 07/15/2013 10:52:48 AM, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> >On Fri, 12 Jul 2013 18:17:08 +0200, Ingo Molnar
> >wrote:
> >> * Linus Torvalds wrote:
> >Let's discuss this at Kernel Summit where we can at least yell at each
> >other in person. Yeah, just try yelling at me about
* Sarah Sharp wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 03:12:45PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > I react very strongly when somebody argues against fixing regressions.
> > Let's just say that there's too many years of baggage that I carry
> > around on that issue..
> >
> > So that is definitely one
* Sarah Sharp wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 02:42:16AM +0200, Thomas Gleixner wrote:
> > If you can point me to a single instance of Linus "abusing" someone
> > who is not one of his trusted persons, who really should be able to
> > deal with that, or someone who did not provoke him to go
* Sarah Sharp sarah.a.sh...@linux.intel.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 02:42:16AM +0200, Thomas Gleixner wrote:
If you can point me to a single instance of Linus abusing someone
who is not one of his trusted persons, who really should be able to
deal with that, or someone who did not
* Sarah Sharp sarah.a.sh...@linux.intel.com wrote:
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 03:12:45PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
I react very strongly when somebody argues against fixing regressions.
Let's just say that there's too many years of baggage that I carry
around on that issue..
So that
* Rob Landley r...@landley.net wrote:
On 07/15/2013 10:52:48 AM, Sarah Sharp wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jul 2013 18:17:08 +0200, Ingo Molnar mi...@kernel.org
wrote:
* Linus Torvalds torva...@linux-foundation.org wrote:
Let's discuss this at Kernel Summit where we can at least yell at each
other in
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 04:03:24PM -0400, Kurt H Maier wrote:
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:01:27PM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
I'm not trying to shut down this discussion. But please, let's continue
this discussion at KS, away from the court of public opinion. I would
love for this email
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Sarah Sharp
wrote:
> To me, being "professional" means treating each other with respect.
Respect is earned, not automatic, and can be lost. A common mistake in
our modern society is to think that everyone deserves respect; they
don't.
We should tolerate each
On Thu, 2013-07-18 at 09:07 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> The following statement is not respectful, because it targets the
> person:
>
> "Seriously, Maintainer. Why are you pushing this kind of *crap* code to
> me again? Why the hell did you mark it for stable when it's clearly
> not a bug fix?
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 12:39:07PM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
>
> * Linus Torvalds wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Sarah Sharp
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Oh, FFS, I just called out on private email for "playing the victim
> > > card". I will repeat: this is not just about me, or
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 09:30:08AM -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> The reason why I started the kernel summit over ten years ago
> was because there were certain topics that are much better discussed
> in person, and that over time, if we don't have sufficient face to
> face interactions, the
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 02:42:16AM +0200, Thomas Gleixner wrote:
> If you can point me to a single instance of Linus "abusing" someone
> who is not one of his trusted persons, who really should be able to
> deal with that, or someone who did not provoke him to go into rant
> mode, then I'm all on
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 12:39:07PM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
>
> * Linus Torvalds wrote:
...
> > Because if you want me to "act professional", I can tell you that I'm
> > not interested. I'm sitting in my home office wearign a bathrobe. The
> > same way I'm not going to start wearing ties, I'm
The reason why I started the kernel summit over ten years ago
was because there were certain topics that are much better discussed
in person, and that over time, if we don't have sufficient face to
face interactions, the quality of e-mail discussions can start to
become frayed.
One of the reasons
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 12:01:18AM -0400, CAI Qian wrote:
> > > Could victim be someone else in the future since it is an example that
> > > people may follow?
Is Nik Wallenda an abuser because he walked across the Grand Canyon on
a tightrope without a safety net, and that's an example that other
On Thu, 2013-07-18 at 00:01 -0400, CAI Qian wrote:
>
> > > > So if you talk about abuse, then you need an abuser and a victim. So
> > > > your argumentation falls flat because there is no victim.
> > > Could victim be someone else in the future since it is an example that
> > > people may
* Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Sarah Sharp
> wrote:
> >
> > Oh, FFS, I just called out on private email for "playing the victim
> > card". I will repeat: this is not just about me, or other minorities.
> > I should not have to ask for professional behavior on the
* CAI Qian wrote:
> > On 07/17/2013, CAI Qian wrote:
> > >
> > > On 07/17/2013, CAI Qian wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Could victim be someone else in the future since it is an
> > > > > example that people may follow?
> > > > >
> > > > >
uot;Greg Kroah-Hartman"
> , "Dave Jones"
> , "Linux Kernel Mailing List"
> , "Andrew Morton"
> , "stable" , "Darren Hart"
>
> 发送时间: 星期四, 2013年 7 月 18日 下午 1:03:41
> 主题: Re: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review
>
> On 07/17/20
下午 1:03:41
主题: Re: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review
On 07/17/2013 09:01 PM, CAI Qian wrote:
Please don't get me wrong. I did neither compare Linus to those child
abusers
nor Thomas to those children. I simply pointed out there is also some
common
sense need to consider.
Actually
* CAI Qian caiq...@redhat.com wrote:
On 07/17/2013, CAI Qian wrote:
On 07/17/2013, CAI Qian wrote:
Could victim be someone else in the future since it is an
example that people may follow?
* Linus Torvalds torva...@linux-foundation.org wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Sarah Sharp
sarah.a.sh...@linux.intel.com wrote:
Oh, FFS, I just called out on private email for playing the victim
card. I will repeat: this is not just about me, or other minorities.
I should not
On Thu, 2013-07-18 at 00:01 -0400, CAI Qian wrote:
So if you talk about abuse, then you need an abuser and a victim. So
your argumentation falls flat because there is no victim.
Could victim be someone else in the future since it is an example that
people may follow?
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 12:01:18AM -0400, CAI Qian wrote:
Could victim be someone else in the future since it is an example that
people may follow?
Is Nik Wallenda an abuser because he walked across the Grand Canyon on
a tightrope without a safety net, and that's an example that other
The reason why I started the kernel summit over ten years ago
was because there were certain topics that are much better discussed
in person, and that over time, if we don't have sufficient face to
face interactions, the quality of e-mail discussions can start to
become frayed.
One of the reasons
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 12:39:07PM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
* Linus Torvalds torva...@linux-foundation.org wrote:
...
Because if you want me to act professional, I can tell you that I'm
not interested. I'm sitting in my home office wearign a bathrobe. The
same way I'm not going to
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 02:42:16AM +0200, Thomas Gleixner wrote:
If you can point me to a single instance of Linus abusing someone
who is not one of his trusted persons, who really should be able to
deal with that, or someone who did not provoke him to go into rant
mode, then I'm all on your
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 09:30:08AM -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
The reason why I started the kernel summit over ten years ago
was because there were certain topics that are much better discussed
in person, and that over time, if we don't have sufficient face to
face interactions, the quality of
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 12:39:07PM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
* Linus Torvalds torva...@linux-foundation.org wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Sarah Sharp
sarah.a.sh...@linux.intel.com wrote:
Oh, FFS, I just called out on private email for playing the victim
card. I will
On Thu, 2013-07-18 at 09:07 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
The following statement is not respectful, because it targets the
person:
Seriously, Maintainer. Why are you pushing this kind of *crap* code to
me again? Why the hell did you mark it for stable when it's clearly
not a bug fix? Did
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Sarah Sharp
sarah.a.sh...@linux.intel.com wrote:
To me, being professional means treating each other with respect.
Respect is earned, not automatic, and can be lost. A common mistake in
our modern society is to think that everyone deserves respect; they
don't.
On 07/17/2013 09:01 PM, CAI Qian wrote:
>
> Please don't get me wrong. I did neither compare Linus to those child abusers
> nor Thomas to those children. I simply pointed out there is also some common
> sense need to consider.
>
Actually, you did.
-hpa
--
To unsubscribe from this
n" , "Dave Jones" ,
> "Linux Kernel Mailing List"
> , "Andrew Morton" ,
> "stable" ,
> "Darren Hart"
> Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 11:47:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review
>
> On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 23:16
n" , "Dave Jones" ,
> "Linux Kernel Mailing List"
> , "Andrew Morton" ,
> "stable" ,
> "Darren Hart"
> Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 11:47:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review
>
> On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 23:16
> If you can point me to a single instance of Linus "abusing" someone
> who is not one of his trusted persons, who really should be able to
> deal with that, or someone who did not provoke him to go into rant
> mode, then I'm all on your side.
Well, the one that comes to mind is Alan Cox and the
On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 23:16 -0400, CAI Qian wrote:
> > So if you talk about abuse, then you need an abuser and a victim. So
> > your argumentation falls flat because there is no victim.
> Could victim be someone else in the future since it is an example that
> people may follow?
>
ones" , "Linux Kernel Mailing List"
> , "Andrew Morton"
> , "stable" , "Darren Hart"
>
> Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 8:42:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review
>
> On Mon, 15 Jul 2013, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> > On
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:07:56PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Sarah Sharp
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Bullshit. I've seen you be polite, and explain to clueless maintainers
> > > why there's no way you can revert their
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 9:17 PM, Linus Torvalds
wrote:
>
> Google "management by perkele".
Actually, not even our former president mr. Kekkonen never went quite
as far using this method. I think something along the lines of
legendary 'saatanan tunarit' would suffice next time :)
--
Janne
--
ck" , "Greg Kroah-Hartman"
> , "Dave Jones"
> , "Linux Kernel Mailing List"
> , "Andrew Morton"
> , "stable" , "Darren Hart"
>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:50:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review
>
, July 16, 2013 7:50:52 AM
Subject: Re: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 09:42 +1000, NeilBrown wrote:
Being polite without being nice is quite possible.
It even has a name: Diplomacy.
And we all know how circular/indirect/implied/useless
some of those diplomatic
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 9:17 PM, Linus Torvalds
torva...@linux-foundation.org wrote:
Google management by perkele.
Actually, not even our former president mr. Kekkonen never went quite
as far using this method. I think something along the lines of
legendary 'saatanan tunarit' would suffice
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013, Sarah Sharp wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:07:56PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Sarah Sharp
sarah.a.sh...@linux.intel.com wrote:
Bullshit. I've seen you be polite, and explain to clueless maintainers
why there's no way you
Rostedt rost...@goodmis.org,
Dave Jones da...@redhat.com, Linux Kernel Mailing List
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Andrew Morton
a...@linux-foundation.org, stable sta...@vger.kernel.org, Darren Hart
dvh...@linux.intel.com
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 8:42:16 AM
Subject: Re: [ 00/19] 3.10.1
On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 23:16 -0400, CAI Qian wrote:
So if you talk about abuse, then you need an abuser and a victim. So
your argumentation falls flat because there is no victim.
Could victim be someone else in the future since it is an example that
people may follow?
If you can point me to a single instance of Linus abusing someone
who is not one of his trusted persons, who really should be able to
deal with that, or someone who did not provoke him to go into rant
mode, then I'm all on your side.
Well, the one that comes to mind is Alan Cox and the TTY
Subject: Re: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review
On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 23:16 -0400, CAI Qian wrote:
So if you talk about abuse, then you need an abuser and a victim. So
your argumentation falls flat because there is no victim.
Could victim be someone else in the future since it is an example
Subject: Re: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review
On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 23:16 -0400, CAI Qian wrote:
So if you talk about abuse, then you need an abuser and a victim. So
your argumentation falls flat because there is no victim.
Could victim be someone else in the future since it is an example
On 07/17/2013 09:01 PM, CAI Qian wrote:
Please don't get me wrong. I did neither compare Linus to those child abusers
nor Thomas to those children. I simply pointed out there is also some common
sense need to consider.
Actually, you did.
-hpa
--
To unsubscribe from this list:
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 03:12:45PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> I react very strongly when somebody argues against fixing regressions.
> Let's just say that there's too many years of baggage that I carry
> around on that issue..
>
> So that is definitely one of the things that make me go
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 18:37 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Rusty Russell wrote:
> >>
> >> "Mauro, SHUT THE FUCK UP!"
> >
> > This one crosses the line. There's no non-offensive way to tell a geek
> > "you are wrong", but this isn't even trying. Bad Linus!
>
>
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 18:37 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> Emotions aren't bad. Quite the reverse.
Spock and Dr. Sheldon Cooper strongly disagree.
-- Steve
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org
More
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Rusty Russell wrote:
>>
>> "Mauro, SHUT THE FUCK UP!"
>
> This one crosses the line. There's no non-offensive way to tell a geek
> "you are wrong", but this isn't even trying. Bad Linus!
You know what? Not my proudest moment. I was really upset.
But that said,
Sarah Sharp writes:
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 02:22:14PM +0930, Rusty Russell wrote:
> Linus is complaining about code here, and the effects of merging bad
> code on his own tree. I personally have no qualms with this type of
> harsh email, because it focuses on the code, not the person.
>
> I
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>
> In fact, I didn't say what I really wanted to say in that reply to the
> reporter
> and that evidently confused you, which only made me think it was better to be
> more careful about sending replies to regression reports when Linus is
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 02:08:56PM -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
> Rusty hit the nail on the head here. I want everyone (including Linus)
> to be harsh with code but gentle with people.
Just as a side note Sarah, in some cultures/languages, "I want" is
extremely impolite, almost insulting to your
On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 02:23:46 PM Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Sarah Sharp
> wrote:
> >
> > I do, however, object when the verbal abuse shifts from being directed
> > at code to being directed at *people*. For example, Linus chose to
> > curse at Mauro [2] and
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 14:08 -0700, Sarah Sharp wrote:
>
> "Mauro, SHUT THE FUCK UP!"
>
> "How long have you been a maintainer? And you *still* haven't learnt the
> first rule of kernel maintenance?"
>
> "Shut up, Mauro. And I don't _ever_ want to hear that kind of obvious
> garbage and idiocy
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Sarah Sharp
wrote:
>
> I do, however, object when the verbal abuse shifts from being directed
> at code to being directed at *people*. For example, Linus chose to
> curse at Mauro [2] and Rafael [3], rather than their code:
Umm. Because it was actually the
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 02:22:14PM +0930, Rusty Russell wrote:
> Linus Torvalds writes:
> > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Willy Tarreau wrote:
> >>
> >> BTW, I was amazed that you managed to get him have a much softer tone inr
> >> his last e-mail, you probably found a weakness here in his
Hi Darren,
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 08:40:15AM -0700, Darren Hart wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 08:13 +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote:
>
> > It can seem counter-producting first (as Sarah thinks) but I think that
> > the competent people find their way in this simply because they're backed
> > up by
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 08:13 +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote:
> It can seem counter-producting first (as Sarah thinks) but I think that
> the competent people find their way in this simply because they're backed
> up by other ones. That's how I think we get that number of skilled people
> at the top of
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 08:09 -0700, Kees Cook wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 04:30:45PM +0200, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:41 PM, Sarah Sharp
> > wrote:
> > > I should not have to ask for professional behavior on the mailing lists.
> > > Professional behavior should
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 04:30:45PM +0200, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:41 PM, Sarah Sharp
> wrote:
> > I should not have to ask for professional behavior on the mailing lists.
> > Professional behavior should be the default.
>
> So, what does "professional" mean? A
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 16:30 +0200, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:41 PM, Sarah Sharp
> wrote:
> > I should not have to ask for professional behavior on the mailing lists.
> > Professional behavior should be the default.
>
> So, what does "professional" mean? A
On 07/15/2013 02:07 PM, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> But when people who know better send me crap, I'll curse at them.
>
> I suspect you'll notice me cursing *way* more at top developers than
> random people on the list. I expect more from them, and conversely
> I'll be a lot more upset when they do
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:41 PM, Sarah Sharp
wrote:
> I should not have to ask for professional behavior on the mailing lists.
> Professional behavior should be the default.
So, what does "professional" mean? A professional is paid for his work, an
amateur isn't. But this doesn't say anything
Hi Neil,
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 08:40:36AM +1000, NeilBrown wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 21:17:27 +0200 Willy Tarreau wrote:
>
> > Communication works two ways.
>
> I understand that to mean (at least) that for communication, every message
> must be both sent and received. So when
Hi Neil,
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 08:40:36AM +1000, NeilBrown wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 21:17:27 +0200 Willy Tarreau w...@1wt.eu wrote:
Communication works two ways.
I understand that to mean (at least) that for communication, every message
must be both sent and received. So when
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:41 PM, Sarah Sharp
sarah.a.sh...@linux.intel.com wrote:
I should not have to ask for professional behavior on the mailing lists.
Professional behavior should be the default.
So, what does professional mean? A professional is paid for his work, an
amateur isn't. But
On 07/15/2013 02:07 PM, Linus Torvalds wrote:
But when people who know better send me crap, I'll curse at them.
I suspect you'll notice me cursing *way* more at top developers than
random people on the list. I expect more from them, and conversely
I'll be a lot more upset when they do
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 16:30 +0200, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:41 PM, Sarah Sharp
sarah.a.sh...@linux.intel.com wrote:
I should not have to ask for professional behavior on the mailing lists.
Professional behavior should be the default.
So, what does professional
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 04:30:45PM +0200, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:41 PM, Sarah Sharp
sarah.a.sh...@linux.intel.com wrote:
I should not have to ask for professional behavior on the mailing lists.
Professional behavior should be the default.
So, what does
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 08:09 -0700, Kees Cook wrote:
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 04:30:45PM +0200, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:41 PM, Sarah Sharp
sarah.a.sh...@linux.intel.com wrote:
I should not have to ask for professional behavior on the mailing lists.
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 08:13 +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote:
It can seem counter-producting first (as Sarah thinks) but I think that
the competent people find their way in this simply because they're backed
up by other ones. That's how I think we get that number of skilled people
at the top of
Hi Darren,
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 08:40:15AM -0700, Darren Hart wrote:
On Tue, 2013-07-16 at 08:13 +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote:
It can seem counter-producting first (as Sarah thinks) but I think that
the competent people find their way in this simply because they're backed
up by other
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 02:22:14PM +0930, Rusty Russell wrote:
Linus Torvalds torva...@linux-foundation.org writes:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Willy Tarreau w...@1wt.eu wrote:
BTW, I was amazed that you managed to get him have a much softer tone inr
his last e-mail, you probably
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