Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-13 Thread Pavel Machek
Hi! > > > > For the > > > > upstream kernel, I think it is more appropriate to expose and fix > > > > the fundamental problems. For distro kernels, I'm less concerned > > > > if you hide bugs instead of fixing them. > > > > > > This is okay as long as you are willing to work around the

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-13 Thread Pavel Machek
Hi! For the upstream kernel, I think it is more appropriate to expose and fix the fundamental problems. For distro kernels, I'm less concerned if you hide bugs instead of fixing them. This is okay as long as you are willing to work around the fundamental problems in

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-07 Thread Pavel Machek
On Tue 2007-08-07 14:58:45, Len Brown wrote: > On Monday 06 August 2007 05:55, Pavel Machek wrote: > > > For the > > > upstream kernel, I think it is more appropriate to expose and fix > > > the fundamental problems. For distro kernels, I'm less concerned > > > if you hide bugs instead of fixing

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-07 Thread Len Brown
On Monday 06 August 2007 05:55, Pavel Machek wrote: > > For the > > upstream kernel, I think it is more appropriate to expose and fix > > the fundamental problems. For distro kernels, I'm less concerned > > if you hide bugs instead of fixing them. > > This is okay as long as you are willing to

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-07 Thread Len Brown
On Monday 06 August 2007 05:55, Pavel Machek wrote: For the upstream kernel, I think it is more appropriate to expose and fix the fundamental problems. For distro kernels, I'm less concerned if you hide bugs instead of fixing them. This is okay as long as you are willing to work around

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-07 Thread Pavel Machek
On Tue 2007-08-07 14:58:45, Len Brown wrote: On Monday 06 August 2007 05:55, Pavel Machek wrote: For the upstream kernel, I think it is more appropriate to expose and fix the fundamental problems. For distro kernels, I'm less concerned if you hide bugs instead of fixing them.

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-06 Thread Pavel Machek
Hi! > > If we have something like this, we could still discuss a config option, > > that also allows to increase trip points, marking it with "If you set > > this you can destroy your machine, you have been warned...". While this > > would not be an option for distributions to compile in, some

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-06 Thread Pavel Machek
Hi! If we have something like this, we could still discuss a config option, that also allows to increase trip points, marking it with If you set this you can destroy your machine, you have been warned While this would not be an option for distributions to compile in, some people may

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-03 Thread Len Brown
On Friday 03 August 2007 07:16, Thomas Renninger wrote: > On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 20:38 +0200, Andi Kleen wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 03:57:54PM +, Pavel Machek wrote: > > > On Thu 2007-08-02 15:16:22, Andi Kleen wrote: > > > > On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:04:42PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > >

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-03 Thread Len Brown
On Friday 03 August 2007 07:43, Renato S. Yamane wrote: > Len Brown escreveu: > > On Thursday 02 August 2007 04:40, Knut Petersen wrote: > >> mainboard: AOpen i915GMm-hfs, AWARD BIOS > >> cpu: Pentium-M 750 (0.8 to 1.86 MHz) > >> openSuSE 10.2 with kernel 2.6.22.1 > >> > >> The cpu fan can not be

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-03 Thread Len Brown
On Friday 03 August 2007 08:53, Knut Petersen wrote: > Len Brown : > > > > > > Thanks for the sighting, Knut! > > This regression is dramatic when put in the terms of 50% performance hit! > > I guess the good news is that thermal throttling is doing the job > > we are asking it to:-) > > > > > >

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-03 Thread Knut Petersen
Len Brown : > > > Thanks for the sighting, Knut! > This regression is dramatic when put in the terms of 50% performance hit! > I guess the good news is that thermal throttling is doing the job > we are asking it to:-) > > > Thermal management by cpufreq is working really fine ;-) My problems

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-03 Thread Renato S. Yamane
Len Brown escreveu: On Thursday 02 August 2007 04:40, Knut Petersen wrote: mainboard: AOpen i915GMm-hfs, AWARD BIOS cpu: Pentium-M 750 (0.8 to 1.86 MHz) openSuSE 10.2 with kernel 2.6.22.1 The cpu fan can not be controled by linux kernel. The BIOS will switch on the cpu fan a bit above 50 deg.

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-03 Thread Thomas Renninger
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 20:38 +0200, Andi Kleen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 03:57:54PM +, Pavel Machek wrote: > > On Thu 2007-08-02 15:16:22, Andi Kleen wrote: > > > On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:04:42PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > > > > > > Set a taint flag, > > > > > That's hardly any useful

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-03 Thread Thomas Renninger
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 20:38 +0200, Andi Kleen wrote: On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 03:57:54PM +, Pavel Machek wrote: On Thu 2007-08-02 15:16:22, Andi Kleen wrote: On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:04:42PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: Set a taint flag, That's hardly any useful if the machine is

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-03 Thread Knut Petersen
Len Brown : Thanks for the sighting, Knut! This regression is dramatic when put in the terms of 50% performance hit! I guess the good news is that thermal throttling is doing the job we are asking it to:-) Thermal management by cpufreq is working really fine ;-) My problems are

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-03 Thread Renato S. Yamane
Len Brown escreveu: On Thursday 02 August 2007 04:40, Knut Petersen wrote: mainboard: AOpen i915GMm-hfs, AWARD BIOS cpu: Pentium-M 750 (0.8 to 1.86 MHz) openSuSE 10.2 with kernel 2.6.22.1 The cpu fan can not be controled by linux kernel. The BIOS will switch on the cpu fan a bit above 50 deg.

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-03 Thread Len Brown
On Friday 03 August 2007 08:53, Knut Petersen wrote: Len Brown : Thanks for the sighting, Knut! This regression is dramatic when put in the terms of 50% performance hit! I guess the good news is that thermal throttling is doing the job we are asking it to:-) Thermal

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-03 Thread Len Brown
On Friday 03 August 2007 07:43, Renato S. Yamane wrote: Len Brown escreveu: On Thursday 02 August 2007 04:40, Knut Petersen wrote: mainboard: AOpen i915GMm-hfs, AWARD BIOS cpu: Pentium-M 750 (0.8 to 1.86 MHz) openSuSE 10.2 with kernel 2.6.22.1 The cpu fan can not be controled by linux

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-03 Thread Len Brown
On Friday 03 August 2007 07:16, Thomas Renninger wrote: On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 20:38 +0200, Andi Kleen wrote: On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 03:57:54PM +, Pavel Machek wrote: On Thu 2007-08-02 15:16:22, Andi Kleen wrote: On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:04:42PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: Set a

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Len Brown
On Thursday 02 August 2007 05:45, Adrian Schröter wrote: > On Thursday 02 August 2007 11:42:27 wrote Thomas Renninger: > > On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 10:40 +0200, Knut Petersen wrote: > > > Hi everybody! > > > > > > Kernel 2.6.22 decreases performance by about 50% on my system. > > > No, I do not like

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Len Brown
On Thursday 02 August 2007 04:40, Knut Petersen wrote: > Kernel 2.6.22 decreases performance by about 50% on my system. > No, I do not like that. The reason is a broken BIOS, granted, but there > was a perfect workaround in the kernel that has been dropped. > > mainboard: AOpen i915GMm-hfs,

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Krzysztof Halasa
Knut Petersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > echo "I know what I am doing" > > /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/THRM/enable_really_dangerous_options There is a shorter version: $ su Password: # -- Krzysztof Halasa - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Matthew Garrett
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 08:38:30PM +0200, Andi Kleen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 03:57:54PM +, Pavel Machek wrote: > > Yes, but it was original BIOS trip points that were wrong. And yes, > > its failsafe shutdown was too late. At least lowering the trip points > > would allow me to run it

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Andi Kleen
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 03:57:54PM +, Pavel Machek wrote: > On Thu 2007-08-02 15:16:22, Andi Kleen wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:04:42PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > > > > > Set a taint flag, > > > > That's hardly any useful if the machine is dead afterwards. > > > > > > It won't be the

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Pavel Machek
Hi! > Well, it would not be the first time to eliminate a regression by > reverting a > patch after it was accepted previously. > >> Sanity checks that trip points only can get lowered (compared to initial > >> provided ones) needs to be added. > >> Len, Rui: For short-term can some > But I

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Pavel Machek
On Thu 2007-08-02 15:16:22, Andi Kleen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:04:42PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > > > > Set a taint flag, > > > That's hardly any useful if the machine is dead afterwards. > > > > It won't be the hardware will do a failsafe shutdown first. > > Not necessarily. At SUSE

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Pavel Machek
Hi! > > I didn't understand the arguments either, actually. > > The issue is that you can actually kill hardware by setting this wrong. > We've had such cases where trip point problems eventually lead > to overheated laptops with hard disks dying etc. Actually, that was my machine. Omnibook

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Andi Kleen
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:04:42PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > > > Set a taint flag, > > That's hardly any useful if the machine is dead afterwards. > > It won't be the hardware will do a failsafe shutdown first. Not necessarily. At SUSE we had at least one broken laptop with wrong trip points.

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Alan Cox
> > Andi, would the above be mechanism sufficiently safe for your taste? > > No. I don't beleve Andi's taste (or lack thereof) is relevant to this discussion. He's not for example explained why its better to force people to disable all the APCI power and thermal control on their system rather

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Alan Cox
> > Set a taint flag, > That's hardly any useful if the machine is dead afterwards. It won't be the hardware will do a failsafe shutdown first. > You'll just end up with "Linux destroyed my laptop" headlines all > over the internet and rightfully very annoyed users. You have to systematically

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Matthew Garrett
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:42:19PM +0200, Thomas Renninger wrote: > On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 12:56 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: > > The policy has been to attempt to be bug-compatible with Windows > > whenever possible for some time now. > *whenever possible* But there's no evidence whatsoever

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Matthew Garrett
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:35:18PM +0200, Thomas Renninger wrote: > On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 13:15 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: > > That machine has no active thermal trip points, so I'm not sure how it's > > relevant here. > >From above: "Windows as I understand it has vendor mechanisms to..." >

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Thomas Renninger
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 12:56 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: > On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 01:45:00PM +0200, Thomas Renninger wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 12:13 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: > > > I strongly suspect that the vast majority[1] of hardware that "needs" > > > the trip points changing

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Thomas Renninger
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 13:15 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: > On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:06:26PM +0200, Thomas Renninger wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 12:57 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: > > > On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 12:59:47PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > > > > Windows as I understand it has vendor

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Matthew Garrett
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:06:26PM +0200, Thomas Renninger wrote: > On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 12:57 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 12:59:47PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > > > Windows as I understand it has vendor mechanisms to allow the bits > > > shipped with the OS to

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Andi Kleen
> Andi Kleen wrote: > > > I don't think it's that unreasonable to require source code > modifications > > for anything that can kill hardware. At least that raises the barrier > > a bit and hopefully ensures people think twice about it and then really > > only blame themselves if

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Thomas Renninger
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 12:57 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: > On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 12:59:47PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > > > I strongly suspect that the vast majority[1] of hardware that "needs" > > > the trip points changing works perfectly well under Windows, so it's > > > > Windows as I

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Andi Kleen
> Set a taint flag, That's hardly any useful if the machine is dead afterwards. > print a loud message Neither. You'll just end up with "Linux destroyed my laptop" headlines all over the internet and rightfully very annoyed users. > Or have you forgotten the original Unix > philosophy too

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Matthew Garrett
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 12:59:47PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > > I strongly suspect that the vast majority[1] of hardware that "needs" > > the trip points changing works perfectly well under Windows, so it's > > Windows as I understand it has vendor mechanisms to allow the bits > shipped with the

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Matthew Garrett
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 01:45:00PM +0200, Thomas Renninger wrote: > On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 12:13 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: > > I strongly suspect that the vast majority[1] of hardware that "needs" > > the trip points changing works perfectly well under Windows, so it's > > likely to be

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Alan Cox
> I strongly suspect that the vast majority[1] of hardware that "needs" > the trip points changing works perfectly well under Windows, so it's Windows as I understand it has vendor mechanisms to allow the bits shipped with the OS to override/ignore just about everything trip points included.

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Thomas Renninger
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 12:13 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: > On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 12:02:21PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > > > Anyway, only solution/workaround to use these machines with current > > > kernels is to override trip points, maybe the patch should really just > > > be reverted... > > > >

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Knut Petersen
Thomas Renninger wrote: >> mainboard: AOpen i915GMm-hfs, AWARD BIOS >> cpu: Pentium-M 750 (0.8 to 1.86 MHz) >> openSuSE 10.2 with kernel 2.6.22.1 > Is this a DELL laptop that gets throttled by 75% to throttling state 6 > if 60 degrees are exceeded? No, it is a Pentium M desktop board.: Chipset

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Matthew Garrett
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 12:02:21PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: > > Anyway, only solution/workaround to use these machines with current > > kernels is to override trip points, maybe the patch should really just > > be reverted... > > The question really is whether the vendors will all revert it and

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Alan Cox
> Anyway, only solution/workaround to use these machines with current > kernels is to override trip points, maybe the patch should really just > be reverted... The question really is whether the vendors will all revert it and carry it as a patch or whether the main tree will accept reality on

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Alan Cox
> Also it runs the system out of spec and is similar to overclocking > which we also do not support. We do not systematically prevent overclocking. There are lots of cases where altering the trip points is helpful, and if you look in vendor bugzilla databases there are multiple moans from people

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Thomas Renninger
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 11:45 +0200, Adrian Schröter wrote: > On Thursday 02 August 2007 11:42:27 wrote Thomas Renninger: > > On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 10:40 +0200, Knut Petersen wrote: > > > Hi everybody! > > > > > > Kernel 2.6.22 decreases performance by about 50% on my system. > > > No, I do not like

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Andi Kleen
Andrew Morton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I didn't understand the arguments either, actually. The issue is that you can actually kill hardware by setting this wrong. We've had such cases where trip point problems eventually lead to overheated laptops with hard disks dying etc. Also it runs

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Adrian Schröter
On Thursday 02 August 2007 11:42:27 wrote Thomas Renninger: > On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 10:40 +0200, Knut Petersen wrote: > > Hi everybody! > > > > Kernel 2.6.22 decreases performance by about 50% on my system. > > No, I do not like that. The reason is a broken BIOS, granted, but there > > was a

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Thomas Renninger
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 10:40 +0200, Knut Petersen wrote: > Hi everybody! > > Kernel 2.6.22 decreases performance by about 50% on my system. > No, I do not like that. The reason is a broken BIOS, granted, but there > was a perfect workaround in the kernel that has been dropped. > > mainboard:

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Andrew Morton
On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 10:40:44 +0200 Knut Petersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi everybody! > > Kernel 2.6.22 decreases performance by about 50% on my system. > No, I do not like that. The reason is a broken BIOS, granted, but there > was a perfect workaround in the kernel that has been dropped.

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Andrew Morton
On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 10:40:44 +0200 Knut Petersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everybody! Kernel 2.6.22 decreases performance by about 50% on my system. No, I do not like that. The reason is a broken BIOS, granted, but there was a perfect workaround in the kernel that has been dropped.

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Thomas Renninger
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 11:45 +0200, Adrian Schröter wrote: On Thursday 02 August 2007 11:42:27 wrote Thomas Renninger: On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 10:40 +0200, Knut Petersen wrote: Hi everybody! Kernel 2.6.22 decreases performance by about 50% on my system. No, I do not like that. The

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Thomas Renninger
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 10:40 +0200, Knut Petersen wrote: Hi everybody! Kernel 2.6.22 decreases performance by about 50% on my system. No, I do not like that. The reason is a broken BIOS, granted, but there was a perfect workaround in the kernel that has been dropped. mainboard: AOpen

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Adrian Schröter
On Thursday 02 August 2007 11:42:27 wrote Thomas Renninger: On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 10:40 +0200, Knut Petersen wrote: Hi everybody! Kernel 2.6.22 decreases performance by about 50% on my system. No, I do not like that. The reason is a broken BIOS, granted, but there was a perfect

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Andi Kleen
Andrew Morton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I didn't understand the arguments either, actually. The issue is that you can actually kill hardware by setting this wrong. We've had such cases where trip point problems eventually lead to overheated laptops with hard disks dying etc. Also it runs the

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Alan Cox
Also it runs the system out of spec and is similar to overclocking which we also do not support. We do not systematically prevent overclocking. There are lots of cases where altering the trip points is helpful, and if you look in vendor bugzilla databases there are multiple moans from people

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Alan Cox
Anyway, only solution/workaround to use these machines with current kernels is to override trip points, maybe the patch should really just be reverted... The question really is whether the vendors will all revert it and carry it as a patch or whether the main tree will accept reality on this

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Matthew Garrett
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 12:02:21PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: Anyway, only solution/workaround to use these machines with current kernels is to override trip points, maybe the patch should really just be reverted... The question really is whether the vendors will all revert it and carry it

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Knut Petersen
Thomas Renninger wrote: mainboard: AOpen i915GMm-hfs, AWARD BIOS cpu: Pentium-M 750 (0.8 to 1.86 MHz) openSuSE 10.2 with kernel 2.6.22.1 Is this a DELL laptop that gets throttled by 75% to throttling state 6 if 60 degrees are exceeded? No, it is a Pentium M desktop board.: Chipset i915GM,

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Thomas Renninger
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 12:13 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 12:02:21PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: Anyway, only solution/workaround to use these machines with current kernels is to override trip points, maybe the patch should really just be reverted... The question

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Matthew Garrett
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 01:45:00PM +0200, Thomas Renninger wrote: On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 12:13 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: I strongly suspect that the vast majority[1] of hardware that needs the trip points changing works perfectly well under Windows, so it's likely to be papering over

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Alan Cox
I strongly suspect that the vast majority[1] of hardware that needs the trip points changing works perfectly well under Windows, so it's Windows as I understand it has vendor mechanisms to allow the bits shipped with the OS to override/ignore just about everything trip points included. Lots

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Matthew Garrett
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:06:26PM +0200, Thomas Renninger wrote: On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 12:57 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 12:59:47PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: Windows as I understand it has vendor mechanisms to allow the bits shipped with the OS to override/ignore

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Matthew Garrett
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 12:59:47PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: I strongly suspect that the vast majority[1] of hardware that needs the trip points changing works perfectly well under Windows, so it's Windows as I understand it has vendor mechanisms to allow the bits shipped with the OS to

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Andi Kleen
Set a taint flag, That's hardly any useful if the machine is dead afterwards. print a loud message Neither. You'll just end up with Linux destroyed my laptop headlines all over the internet and rightfully very annoyed users. Or have you forgotten the original Unix philosophy too ? The

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Andi Kleen
Andi Kleen wrote: I don't think it's that unreasonable to require source code modifications for anything that can kill hardware. At least that raises the barrier a bit and hopefully ensures people think twice about it and then really only blame themselves if anything goes

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Thomas Renninger
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 12:57 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 12:59:47PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: I strongly suspect that the vast majority[1] of hardware that needs the trip points changing works perfectly well under Windows, so it's Windows as I understand it has

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Thomas Renninger
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 12:56 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 01:45:00PM +0200, Thomas Renninger wrote: On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 12:13 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: I strongly suspect that the vast majority[1] of hardware that needs the trip points changing works

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Matthew Garrett
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:35:18PM +0200, Thomas Renninger wrote: On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 13:15 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: That machine has no active thermal trip points, so I'm not sure how it's relevant here. From above: Windows as I understand it has vendor mechanisms to... Maybe

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Matthew Garrett
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:42:19PM +0200, Thomas Renninger wrote: On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 12:56 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: The policy has been to attempt to be bug-compatible with Windows whenever possible for some time now. *whenever possible* But there's no evidence whatsoever that this

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Alan Cox
Set a taint flag, That's hardly any useful if the machine is dead afterwards. It won't be the hardware will do a failsafe shutdown first. You'll just end up with Linux destroyed my laptop headlines all over the internet and rightfully very annoyed users. You have to systematically sit

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Thomas Renninger
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 13:15 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:06:26PM +0200, Thomas Renninger wrote: On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 12:57 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 12:59:47PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: Windows as I understand it has vendor mechanisms

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Andi Kleen
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:04:42PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: Set a taint flag, That's hardly any useful if the machine is dead afterwards. It won't be the hardware will do a failsafe shutdown first. Not necessarily. At SUSE we had at least one broken laptop with wrong trip points. The

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Alan Cox
Andi, would the above be mechanism sufficiently safe for your taste? No. I don't beleve Andi's taste (or lack thereof) is relevant to this discussion. He's not for example explained why its better to force people to disable all the APCI power and thermal control on their system rather than

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Pavel Machek
Hi! I didn't understand the arguments either, actually. The issue is that you can actually kill hardware by setting this wrong. We've had such cases where trip point problems eventually lead to overheated laptops with hard disks dying etc. Actually, that was my machine. Omnibook xe3;

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Pavel Machek
On Thu 2007-08-02 15:16:22, Andi Kleen wrote: On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:04:42PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: Set a taint flag, That's hardly any useful if the machine is dead afterwards. It won't be the hardware will do a failsafe shutdown first. Not necessarily. At SUSE we had at

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Pavel Machek
Hi! Well, it would not be the first time to eliminate a regression by reverting a patch after it was accepted previously. Sanity checks that trip points only can get lowered (compared to initial provided ones) needs to be added. Len, Rui: For short-term can some But I _need_ to raise

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Andi Kleen
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 03:57:54PM +, Pavel Machek wrote: On Thu 2007-08-02 15:16:22, Andi Kleen wrote: On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 02:04:42PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote: Set a taint flag, That's hardly any useful if the machine is dead afterwards. It won't be the hardware will do a

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Matthew Garrett
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 08:38:30PM +0200, Andi Kleen wrote: On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 03:57:54PM +, Pavel Machek wrote: Yes, but it was original BIOS trip points that were wrong. And yes, its failsafe shutdown was too late. At least lowering the trip points would allow me to run it

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Krzysztof Halasa
Knut Petersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: echo I know what I am doing /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/THRM/enable_really_dangerous_options There is a shorter version: $ su Password: # -- Krzysztof Halasa - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-kernel in the body of a message

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Len Brown
On Thursday 02 August 2007 04:40, Knut Petersen wrote: Kernel 2.6.22 decreases performance by about 50% on my system. No, I do not like that. The reason is a broken BIOS, granted, but there was a perfect workaround in the kernel that has been dropped. mainboard: AOpen i915GMm-hfs, AWARD

Re: 2.6.22 regression: thermal trip points

2007-08-02 Thread Len Brown
On Thursday 02 August 2007 05:45, Adrian Schröter wrote: On Thursday 02 August 2007 11:42:27 wrote Thomas Renninger: On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 10:40 +0200, Knut Petersen wrote: Hi everybody! Kernel 2.6.22 decreases performance by about 50% on my system. No, I do not like that. The