Re: [WSG] about css pop up windows
At 01:19 AM 5/14/2006, Breiterstrom [Cosmin Ciobanu] wrote: Please take a look at my web site: http://www.cosmin-ciobanu.popconsulting.ro The CSS is http://www.cosmin-ciobanu.popconsulting.ro/cssfolder/mystyle.css I want you to study the portfolio page and tell me how do you think it looks. I've used Only CSS rules, no JAVA script, for the windows that appears on mouse over on the ice thumbnails. Is there a way to make that pop ups appear with some effects? Like fade in, for ex.? Can anybody help me with a sugestion? Cosmin, For me your portfolio doesn't work: when I hover over the menu of thumbnails, the larger screenshots appear in the same place and cover up the menu itself. I find this very irritating. It means that to view more than one screenshot I have to move my mouse completely out of the menu area and come back into it from another direction. You're forcing me to use a lot of extreme mouse motion for no particular reason, and I think there's something fundamentally wrong about a user interface that covers itself up while the user is trying to use it. The design is not only inconvenient, it's superfluous. You have already allocated space on the page to display a thumbnail representing each portfolio item, however you're using the same ice image for each thumbnail. That seems like a waste of space. Why not put the website screenshots into the menu in the first place? This doesn't make the hover images irrelevant -- it's OK to show a larger version of a thumbnail on hover. Your menu design seems like an especially poor choice for a web designer's portfolio: I was not impressed with your ability to design a functional user interface and, at least on this basis, I would not be likely to approach you for help on a web project. While I understand your desire to show off your abilities, I suggest you do so in a way that enhances functionality and doesn't detract from it. My recommendation is that you use screenshot thumbnails for the menu itself and, on hover, display the larger screenshots on top of the big ice cube at left. That way I could hover over different thumbnails until I found one I wanted to click on, and the thumbnail menu would remain usable throughout the selection process. Regards, Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] HTML editor for Mac
Hi Paul Was curious to know if anyone else is doing front end development on the Mac? If so, what software are you using? Check out TextMate http://macromates.com/ - excellent for (x)html, css, PHP and Ruby etc. I also use BBEdit, but IMHO TextMate has surpassed it for ease of use. HTH Sarah :) -- XERT Communications email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mobile: 0438 017 416 http://www.xert.com.au/ web development : digital imaging : dvd production ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] HTML editor for Mac
On 5/16/06 1:59 AM Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent this out: Was curious to know if anyone else is doing front end development on the Mac? If so, what software are you using? There's the Freeway type of thing: Freeway 4.2 http://www.softpress.com/products/index.php Is that sort of like Homesite? Rick ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] HTML editor for Mac
Paul, Depending on what sort of code you need to write, there are a few good ones around: BBEdit is probably the most well known but costs around US$175 (personally I like this one the best) If you're doing any PHP work Zend Studio is really good, and starts at US$99 A couple of good, light weight free editors are Jedit SubEthaEdit Unfortunately, with CSS there is nothing that comes close to Topstyle for the Mac, but CSS Edit Stylemaster are the two that I use. All of those editors are easily found via Google... Cheers, Nick. On 16 May 2006, at 18:59, Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, Recently made the change from PC to Mac. Love the platform, but can't seem to find a good, simple HTML editor. I normally use Homesite on the PC, but there is no Mac version. I've tried using Dreamweaver, but found it has a lot of features that get in the way that I'll never use. (particularly - WYSIWYG). It's the little differences when you use the software every day! Been using Textmate too, but not completely satisfied. Was curious to know if anyone else is doing front end development on the Mac? If so, what software are you using? Cheers, Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] HTML editor for Mac
On 5/16/06 2:13 AM Rick Faaberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent this out: Was curious to know if anyone else is doing front end development on the Mac? If so, what software are you using? There's the Freeway type of thing: Freeway 4.2 http://www.softpress.com/products/index.php Is that sort of like Homesite? Uhh, guess not (I looked up Homesite on adobe.com). Wish you well in your search! Rick ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] HTML editor for Mac
BBEdit is probably the most well known but costs around US$175 (personally I like this one the best) I'm using BBEdit from a year, after a lot of (bad) time in GoLive. I think that BBEdit is one of the best Mac apps I've tried. Simply, fast (really fast), powerfull, with everything I need for XHTML and CSS (yeah, not really everything, but there is no software that has the features I need :) One of the best action in BBEdit is to find and replace a text (with grep!) in a lot of file, open or not. FANTASTIC. If 175 US is a lot of maney for you, try TextWrangler (http://www.barebones.com/products/textwrangler/index.shtml) the FREE version of BBEdit (mess some features, but great apps). I remeber that you can try BBEdit for 30 days in a FULL Demo before to buy it. -- Matteo Discardi 1802 http://homepage.mac.com/matteo.discardi Transcending History and the World, a tale of Soul and Swords eternally retold SoulCalibur ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] HTML editor for Mac
On 5/16/06 2:42 AM 1802 [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent this out: BBEdit is probably the most well known but costs around US$175 (personally I like this one the best) I'm using BBEdit from a year, after a lot of (bad) time in GoLive. Interesting. I hear from a bunch of folks who dismiss GL for its WYSIWYG layout stuff but love its source code editor and display of same. Go figure! :-) Rick ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] HTML editor for Mac
Paul, For a inexpensive solution I have been using SKEdit and CSS Edit Both are $20. Well worth the price. Download the free trials and see for yourself. -Sean Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, Recently made the change from PC to Mac. Love the platform, but can't seem to find a good, simple HTML editor. I normally use Homesite on the PC, but there is no Mac version. I've tried using Dreamweaver, but found it has a lot of features that get in the way that I'll never use. (particularly - WYSIWYG). It's the little differences when you use the software every day! Been using Textmate too, but not completely satisfied. Was curious to know if anyone else is doing front end development on the Mac? If so, what software are you using? Cheers, Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] semantic table gallery?
Two controls to switch a complex table view. Where do I go for some GUI design help that will be html and semantic friendly? But not the wonderful CSS Table Gallery at http://icant.co.uk/csstablegallery/.
Re: [WSG] SEO and Iframes
On 06/05/16 05:42 (GMT-0400) Michael Persson apparently typed: Ever heard about SEO, Search Engine Optimizing?? Sure. Using iframes is your worst enemy because the search engines cant see your content in the iframe. I don't think I've put anything in an iframe that any search engines need to know about. Using ifrrames is a pure death for your indexation in search engines... It doesn't seem to prevent all the bots from spamming my logs with repeated requests for the same pages over and over and over again. I tried setting Crawl-Delay: 600, but it seems that has no effect on most bots, and Google has expressly stated they ignore it. -- All have sinned fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] HTML editor for Mac
1802 wrote: I'm using BBEdit from a year, after a lot of (bad) time in GoLive. I think that BBEdit is one of the best Mac apps I've tried. Simply, fast (really fast), powerfull, with everything I need for XHTML and CSS (yeah, not really everything, but there is no software that has the features I need :) One of the best action in BBEdit is to find and replace a text (with grep!) in a lot of file, open or not. FANTASTIC. ...which jEdit -- free, open source, Java-based -- also will do. On your desktop files or a remote system. And too many other features to begin to list here. http://jedit.org/ And, being Java, you can use it on your Mac, PC, *nix system and not ever waste time again looking for a platform-specific editor... :-) FWIW! -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com opinion: webtuitive.blogspot.com dream. code. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] HTML editor for Mac
At 09:59 Paul Collins said Was curious to know if anyone else is doing front end development on the Mac? If so, what software are you using? I've heard good things about PageSpinner, although I haven't tried it - I'm a BBEdit fan. http://www.optima-system.com/pagespinner/ Pauline -- Pauline's Views of France: http://www.pauline-caldwell.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] HTML editor for Mac
Another option is NVu, an open-source Web page editor created by a consortium powered by Linspire. naaa. NVu is boring and too slow on MacOS. One of the plasure on programming code is that work is quick. I'd be curious to hear which program you choose after all of the recommendations you receive. Yes, me too My next home computer is going to be a Macintosh, so I'll be going through the same process soon enough. Does Apple hear you? http://www.apple.com/macbook/ Bye -- Matteo Discardi 1802 http://homepage.mac.com/matteo.discardi Transcending History and the World, a tale of Soul and Swords eternally retold SoulCalibur ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] HTML editor for Mac
naaa. NVu is boring and too slow on MacOS. One of the plasure on programming code is that work is quick. Ah, okay. I haven't tried it on the Mac. It is okay on the PC, but I got a little too frustrated with some of it's features, and went back to Coffee Cup HTML Editor and TopStyle. Does Apple hear you? http://www.apple.com/macbook/ Slashdot featured that article today about the Macbook release. Apple might be listening. They have their ways... Kim Nylander ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] about css pop up windows
Very nice! although I would suggest you resize your hover portfolio samples to fit exactly inside the left display area. I would crop out all but the actual screenshot area of the portfolio example, and would make the sample fit into the height and width area there. I use a similar css hover property on my own site. Not nearly as nice as yours. Silly question maybe but are those what you are referring too as pop ups? I don't really think of those as pop ups rather as hovers. My hovers can be styled as they are css and the hover portion of the code can be styled anyway you want them to look. Although in your case a very simple squared up screenshot is all you really need. But it needs to fit. If you lower the screen size the example is cut off on the right side. - Original Message - From: Paul Novitski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 3:34 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] about css pop up windows At 01:19 AM 5/14/2006, Breiterstrom [Cosmin Ciobanu] wrote: Please take a look at my web site: http://www.cosmin-ciobanu.popconsulting.ro The CSS is http://www.cosmin-ciobanu.popconsulting.ro/cssfolder/mystyle.css I want you to study the portfolio page and tell me how do you think it looks. I've used Only CSS rules, no JAVA script, for the windows that appears on mouse over on the ice thumbnails. Is there a way to make that pop ups appear with some effects? Like fade in, for ex.? Can anybody help me with a sugestion? Cosmin, For me your portfolio doesn't work: when I hover over the menu of thumbnails, the larger screenshots appear in the same place and cover up the menu itself. I find this very irritating. It means that to view more than one screenshot I have to move my mouse completely out of the menu area and come back into it from another direction. You're forcing me to use a lot of extreme mouse motion for no particular reason, and I think there's something fundamentally wrong about a user interface that covers itself up while the user is trying to use it. The design is not only inconvenient, it's superfluous. You have already allocated space on the page to display a thumbnail representing each portfolio item, however you're using the same ice image for each thumbnail. That seems like a waste of space. Why not put the website screenshots into the menu in the first place? This doesn't make the hover images irrelevant -- it's OK to show a larger version of a thumbnail on hover. Your menu design seems like an especially poor choice for a web designer's portfolio: I was not impressed with your ability to design a functional user interface and, at least on this basis, I would not be likely to approach you for help on a web project. While I understand your desire to show off your abilities, I suggest you do so in a way that enhances functionality and doesn't detract from it. My recommendation is that you use screenshot thumbnails for the menu itself and, on hover, display the larger screenshots on top of the big ice cube at left. That way I could hover over different thumbnails until I found one I wanted to click on, and the thumbnail menu would remain usable throughout the selection process. Regards, Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/339 - Release Date: 5/14/2006 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] about css pop up windows
OK! I think I was able to change the design and the CSS, as some of you sugested. It was a great idea, Sharron...Thank you very much! Take a look at it now: http://www.cosmin-ciobanu.popconsulting.ro Thanx a lot, my friends! Keep in touch! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Tables - you can still use them in web design article
- Original Message - From: Rimantas Liubertas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:03 PM I have read somewhere that one of the original mentioned uses of tables in some old HTML spec *was* layout. Can anyone verify this? So it _is_ old-fashioned? Lol! You can't have it both ways. It's you lot that always argue that tables were originally meant for tabular data only and then were used for layout. So who's old fashioned? I am not that allergic for table layouts, and I agree that there _may_ be cases where table layout is appropriate – but I just don't see that. This is all I am arguing, that there may be cases where table layout is appropriate. Good to see I have someone on my side! :-) Either site uses zero tables for layout, or tens and hundreds. And appropriateness is such a gray area... That's why we have to make our own mind up as to when it is appropriate. As you admit, sometimes it is. Stephen ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Tables - you can still use them in web design article
- Original Message - From: Nick Lo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 8:14 AM Is peer judgement one of the reasons for the defensiveness about using tables? How many of these arguments were written with the intention of convincing clients that CSS layouts are not all they are made out to be? .On the whole these kind of specifics are not as high on our clients list as page load speed, bandwidth, etc. Clients do not care about whether you use a CSS layout or a print layout. If they know that much they could probably create their own web site. They want a web site that looks good and brings in business (and works on their browser lol - they may well be oblivious to the fact that it might look different to someone else). Tables are not necessarily going to affect page load speed any, unless you using old style multiple nested tables which is not what I am suggesting. With regards to peer judgement, what annoys me is the attitude that if you dare to suggest that tables are suitable for layout at certain times then you must be incapable of using CSS and not a good web designer. Maybe people who make this choice, such as the person writing the article in question, have weighed up all the options and decided that they do not want to go down the route of multiple hacks to make sure their web site works properly and does not break. Or perhaps they have a layout situation that they want or need to implement, where again to do it with CSS is a hundreds time more complicated than using a simple table layout, and so they decide that the most efficient way to go is to use a simple table. IE6 is a reality for the majority of web users and we cannot escape that fact. CSS also has a fair way to go to mature. You should be doing it another way is also a fairly well used answer to the argument for using tables in certain situations, but it is not fair to use this argument unless you know what the person is trying to implement or what restrictions they are under. Stephen ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Tables - you can still use them in web design article
From: Nick Lo [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know there are plenty of these articles but unfortunately I got drawn into this one (possibly as it was in my Netregistry newsletter!): -- http://www.netregistry.com.au/news/articles/79/1 I always found Barry Pearson to be enormously entertaining and thorough. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but it's a fun read - so long as you read it open-mindedly :-) http://www.barry.pearson.name/articles/layout_tables/index.htm -- Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Offlist unscientific poll
I said offlist, didn't I?... Hello listers, With all the browsers available these days, I was very curious as to what the professional developers rely on for their own personal, non-dev non-testing browsing needs. What browser do you guys always come back to for personal banking/personal browsing needs? This is just for my own curiosity. Just wanted to know what the pros actually use. OFF LIST PLEASE! Yes, I know how many replies I might get. Thanks for the concern. ;-) Georg, let me guess... Opera? ;-) -- Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist Media Logic www.mlinc.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Offlist unscientific poll
Firefox, of course! (Mac X/ 10.3.6) Tom Livingston wrote: I said offlist, didn't I?... Hello listers, With all the browsers available these days, I was very curious as to what the professional developers rely on for their own personal, non-dev non-testing browsing needs. What browser do you guys always come back to for personal banking/personal browsing needs? This is just for my own curiosity. Just wanted to know what the pros actually use. OFF LIST PLEASE! Yes, I know how many replies I might get. Thanks for the concern. ;-) Georg, let me guess... Opera? ;-) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Offlist unscientific poll
Hi Tom If you really want offlist responses, please add your email address to your message. The standard reply will go to wsg and it doesn't make it easy to discover your personal address. This is why I'm sending this to the list and not to you directly. p.s. I use the latest version of firefox. Ted -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Livingston Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 10:44 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Offlist unscientific poll I said offlist, didn't I?... Hello listers, With all the browsers available these days, I was very curious as to what the professional developers rely on for their own personal, non-dev non-testing browsing needs. What browser do you guys always come back to for personal banking/personal browsing needs? This is just for my own curiosity. Just wanted to know what the pros actually use. OFF LIST PLEASE! Yes, I know how many replies I might get. Thanks for the concern. ;-) Georg, let me guess... Opera? ;-) -- Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist Media Logic www.mlinc.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Accessibility and Browsers (N4.x)
To expand upon that concept, using a link rel= in your HTML is a fine thing to do. Within that stylesheet you called, use the @import to grab the actual stylesheet. This also allows you to easily break up your stylesheets into managable fragments, as well as add/remove without any duplication. You could have: @import url(head.css); @import url(nav.css); etc.. Joseph R. B. Taylor Sites by Joe, LLC http://sitesbyjoe.com (609)335-3076 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Geoff Pack wrote: Katrina wrote: Is it recommended to continue to use work-arounds to ensure accessibility in older browsers? What work-arounds? Just filter your stylesheets to prevent older browsers seeing them, and you're done. I use a two step stylesheet to do this: html: link rel=stylesheet type=text/css media=screen title=Default href=screen.css screen.css: @import globalNav.css; @import main.css; etc... This makes it easy to split the css into modules, and to change which browsers are filtered without having to change any of the html. Change double to single quotes to exclude IE/Mac as well. cheers, Geoff. == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Tables - you can still use them in web design article
On 16/05/06, Joseph R. B. Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Design choices are left to the designer. Rewards and consequences will eventually follow, whichever path is chosen. But that's what this is all for, all this standards-focused fighting for the cause: to aide people in choosing the right path for their needs. Nowadays with the proper support, the proper workarounds and the proper compromises, there is very little room for table-based layouts. Of course, that's all just my opinion, but I can show enough examples to prove this statement. But that's not the intention. Extremism is unforgivable and I'm refraining from even invoking the slightest bit of extremism in anyone posting to this list. -Rob.
Re: [WSG] Tables - you can still use them in web design article
Thats exactly the point. There are extremists fighting both sides. Me, I strictly use CSS, never tables (though I once did), and I'm confident enough these days that I use hacks VERY VERY infrequently, as I know the issues to expect with my design choices long before I turn on the text editor. The standards cause is good and just. An analogy can be made for almost any other industry, and the outcome would be the same. The standards will win over, because its just logical. Do to that fact, however eventual and far off it may seem, my personal choice is to take the standards approach and only use CSS for layouts, regardless. Joseph R. B. Taylor Sites by Joe, LLC http://sitesbyjoe.com (609)335-3076 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rob Mientjes wrote: On 16/05/06, Joseph R. B. Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Design choices are left to the designer. Rewards and consequences will eventually follow, whichever path is chosen. But that's what this is all for, all this standards-focused fighting for the cause: to aide people in choosing the right path for their needs. Nowadays with the proper support, the proper workarounds and the proper compromises, there is very little room for table-based layouts. Of course, that's all just my opinion, but I can show enough examples to prove this statement. But that's not the intention. Extremism is unforgivable and I'm refraining from even invoking the slightest bit of extremism in anyone posting to this list. -Rob. N���.�Ȩ�X���+��i�� n�Z�֫v�+��h��y�m�쵩�j�l��.f���.�ץ�w�q� (��b��(��,�)උazX����)��i ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Offlist unscientific poll
Firefox. Opera's better, but I don't find the interface intuitive[1], and I can't block ads. [1] Or maybe it's just that it's not the same as IE/NN/FF/everything-else, and I'm too lazy to learn something new. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] about css pop up windows
While trying not to be quite as harsh as Paul with my comments :), I have to say that I agree with everything here. The idea behind the portfolio shouldnt be look at me fellow web designers, isnt this mouseover effect cool, it should be geared towards your target audience, which by the looks of your profile, would be SME corporate customers. Therefore the flow of the site (i use that word as a kinda mixture between style and structure) would be best geared towards MDs/Managers who have little experience/knowledge of web design, but more than likely use the web on a very regular basis (or they probably wouldnt even think about looking at your site, or even thinking they need one themselves). Keep things simple, ensure your actions are consistent with what users would expect (ie, dont use those unintuitive cursors... how am i supposed to know that the help cursor actually means i can click links on one page, and oh, i cant on another page... taking your portfolio and services page as prime examples), and finally keep things clear (Georgia, while a very attractive font, isnt a) the most standard font for the web (with your fallback choices being even less standard) and b) is very difficult to read at smaller font sizes (the paragraph text looks incredibly cramped there)). Also, from a more design perspective, you might gain more from those thumbs/large porgtfolio images by creating them as cutouts of the main design, rather than sticking the whole page into 1 small image (maybe a small section of a logo/unique feature for the thumbnail, and a larger portion with the header/link/page section in the larger image... and make it obvious that they can be clicked for an example). I would try and stay clear of the take a screen screen shot and stick it in an image approach... why does the customer care that you have a nice pretty mac task bar? Anyway, I hope at least some of this helps. Thanks, David Paul Novitski wrote: At 01:19 AM 5/14/2006, Breiterstrom [Cosmin Ciobanu] wrote: Please take a look at my web site: http://www.cosmin-ciobanu.popconsulting.ro The CSS is http://www.cosmin-ciobanu.popconsulting.ro/cssfolder/mystyle.css I want you to study the portfolio page and tell me how do you think it looks. I've used Only CSS rules, no JAVA script, for the windows that appears on mouse over on the ice thumbnails. Is there a way to make that pop ups appear with some effects? Like fade in, for ex.? Can anybody help me with a sugestion? Cosmin, For me your portfolio doesn't work: when I hover over the menu of thumbnails, the larger screenshots appear in the same place and cover up the menu itself. I find this very irritating. It means that to view more than one screenshot I have to move my mouse completely out of the menu area and come back into it from another direction. You're forcing me to use a lot of extreme mouse motion for no particular reason, and I think there's something fundamentally wrong about a user interface that covers itself up while the user is trying to use it. The design is not only inconvenient, it's superfluous. You have already allocated space on the page to display a thumbnail representing each portfolio item, however you're using the same ice image for each thumbnail. That seems like a waste of space. Why not put the website screenshots into the menu in the first place? This doesn't make the hover images irrelevant -- it's OK to show a larger version of a thumbnail on hover. Your menu design seems like an especially poor choice for a web designer's portfolio: I was not impressed with your ability to design a functional user interface and, at least on this basis, I would not be likely to approach you for help on a web project. While I understand your desire to show off your abilities, I suggest you do so in a way that enhances functionality and doesn't detract from it. My recommendation is that you use screenshot thumbnails for the menu itself and, on hover, display the larger screenshots on top of the big ice cube at left. That way I could hover over different thumbnails until I found one I wanted to click on, and the thumbnail menu would remain usable throughout the selection process. Regards, Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] HTML editor for Mac
I agree with Sean about skEdit. I am a recent Mac convert (last July) and I fell in love with skEdit. I use it for (x)html along with css. http://www.skti.org/skEdit.php If you want free, I can also recommend Taco Html. A good editor without too many bells and whistles. http://tacosw.com/main.php debbie T http://www.splashofstyle.com On May 16, 2006, at 6:15 AM5/16/06, Sean Sullivan wrote: Paul, For a inexpensive solution I have been using SKEdit and CSS Edit Both are $20. Well worth the price. Download the free trials and see for yourself. -Sean Paul Collins wrote: Hi all, Recently made the change from PC to Mac. Love the platform, but can't seem to find a good, simple HTML editor. I normally use Homesite on the PC, but there is no Mac version. I've tried using Dreamweaver, but found it has a lot of features that get in the way that I'll never use. (particularly - WYSIWYG). It's the little differences when you use the software every day! Been using Textmate too, but not completely satisfied. Was curious to know if anyone else is doing front end development on the Mac? If so, what software are you using? Cheers, Paul ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Offlist unscientific poll
Tom Livingston wrote: With all the browsers available these days, I was very curious as to what the professional developers rely on for their own personal, non-dev non-testing browsing needs. What browser do you guys always come back to for personal banking/personal browsing needs? I tend to use both Firefox and Konqueror very regularly and almost interchangeably. Once in a while I'll fire up Opera. Each has its own advantages and disadvantaged over the others. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Tables - you can still use them in web design article
Hi all, Stevio wrote: - Original Message - From: Joseph R. B. Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 4:31 AM Those who haven't arrived at this place yet and are clinging to tables and using minor display issues as an excuse, you're really in for a treat when you finally make the switch. Hi Joseph, How do you know what display issues another designer has and whether they are major or minor? Also, how do you know a designer has not made the switch, examined the options, and still come to the conclusion that in a particular situation a table is more appropriate? I tend to use CSS for layout, and haven't used table based layout for a long time. That said, the real weak point of CSS layouts and the strength of table based layouts is that tables will handle UI mirroring while CSS currently doesn't. Andrew ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Tables - you can still use them in web design article
At 04:31 PM 5/16/2006, Andrew Cunningham wrote: the real weak point of CSS layouts and the strength of table based layouts is that tables will handle UI mirroring while CSS currently doesn't. Please elucidate. It seems to me that you'd have to reverse the sequence of table markup going from LTR to RTL, and while you could do the same with CSS there's also the potential to reverse float direction and keep the markup the same, n'est ce pas? Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Thanks for sending me an email. I'm out of the office until Thursday 18th May 2006 and I will not be accessing emails during this time. If you need to contact the Hiser office, please phone 03 9648 4333. Regards, Naomi Heagney ***Disclaimer*** This email and any attachments may contain confidential and/or privileged material and/or material subject to copyright; it is for the intended addressee(s) only. If you are not a named addressee you shall not use, retain or disclose such information. The views expressed in this email are those of the originator and do not necessarily represent the views of The Hiser Group or its parent company, Serco Group Pty Ltd. Nothing in this email shall bind Hiser or Serco in any contract or obligation. Hiser cannot guarantee that the email or any attachments are free from viruses or errors and will not be responsible for loss or damage resulting either directly or indirectly from any such virus or error. If this is a commercial electronic message within the meaning of the Spam Act, you may indicate that you do not wish to receive any further commercial electronic messages from us by sending an email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] The Hiser Group Pty Ltd. Incorporated in NSW, November 1990. ACN 050 327 716 Registered office: Level 10, 90 Arthur Street, North Sydney, NSW 2060, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Tables - you can still use them in web design article
Paul Novitski wrote: Please elucidate. It seems to me that you'd have to reverse the sequence of table markup going from LTR to RTL, and while you could do the same with CSS there's also the potential to reverse float direction and keep the markup the same, n'est ce pas? If the page is LTR, then the first column of a table is left most, with each following column to the right of the preceeding column. In a RTL page, the browser will render the first column on the right of the page and each subsequent column will be rendered to the left of the preceeding column. The primary issue here is the direction of the bidi embedding level the table is in. In a sense the order of columns in a table is direction neutral, ie they inherit the direction of the page (or parent element). The default direction being LTR. This ability can be used to develop a template which is direction neutral, ie the same template can be used irregardless of directionality of the page. In CSS, it is more complex. Yes you can swap the direction of any floated elements, but you'd also have to swap any elements that have left or right margins or paddings defined, etc. The easiest approach is to have two separate css files which are nearly identical except for page orientation, and use the apporpriate version for the appropriate languages. Essentially menats that the CMS or scripts in use need to be developed to understand text direction and how to handle it appropriately when generating html pages. Alternatively, all CSS that has direction implications could be striped out of an external CSS file and embeded in the scripting languages generating the HTML, allowing the scripts generating the HTML to insert appropriate CSS rules based on the directionality of the page. Either way, more complex and less clean that just using a well implemented table layout. The key issue is that CSS layouts are defined in terms of measurements to the left or right of something, and thus are not direction neutral. It is no big deal if you are just handling languages in one writing script or a set of writing scripts that share directionality. Andrew ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Tables - you can still use them in web design article
On 17/5/06 10:57 AM, Andrew Cunningham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This ability can be used to develop a template which is direction neutral, ie the same template can be used irregardless of directionality of the page. irregardless? Surely you jest ... -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Tables - you can still use them in web design article
From: Kevin Futter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...the same template can be used irregardless of directionality irregardless? Surely you jest ... http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/?date=19970721 -- Peter Williams ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Tables - you can still use them in web design article
Kevin Futter wrote: On 17/5/06 10:57 AM, Andrew Cunningham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This ability can be used to develop a template which is direction neutral, ie the same template can be used irregardless of directionality of the page. irregardless? Surely you jest ... LOL, as to jesting? Yes AND no A poorly internationalized and over brudened table layout may have problems with UI mirroring. But it is possible to use tables to design a layout that will support UI mirroring. With CSS on the other hand ... I prefer templates and layouts i can use with any language. Today I might need Amharic and Pashto, tomorrow maybe Assyrian, Urdu, Khmer, Lao and Yoruba. Good use of CSS is essential to developing well internationalized web sites. Unfortunately, from the point of view of developing internationalized user interfaces, there's a lot lacking in CSS 2.1. The very idea that Andrew ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Tables - you can still use them in web design article
My last response play in the tables/css ping-pong match that never ends. Yes, we all acknowledge that tables are most stable when used sparingly. Yes, CSS has a ways to go to enjoy the same stability. However, as we are all here discussing standards, is it not one goals of the standards movement to completely separate content, presentation and functionality? Is it not true, that the complete separation will offer the greatest flexibility that is part of the bigger picture of the information on the internet and it's foreseeable future? CSS handling the presentation layer of information is part of this future. Tables handling presentation disrupts this separation. Of course it is possible that I'm retarded and have misinterpreted everything I've come to believe about the standards movement Cheers, Joseph R. B. Taylor Sites by Joe, LLC http://sitesbyjoe.com (609)335-3076 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Andrew Cunningham wrote: Kevin Futter wrote: On 17/5/06 10:57 AM, Andrew Cunningham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This ability can be used to develop a template which is direction neutral, ie the same template can be used irregardless of directionality of the page. irregardless? Surely you jest ... LOL, as to jesting? Yes AND no A poorly internationalized and over brudened table layout may have problems with UI mirroring. But it is possible to use tables to design a layout that will support UI mirroring. With CSS on the other hand ... I prefer templates and layouts i can use with any language. Today I might need Amharic and Pashto, tomorrow maybe Assyrian, Urdu, Khmer, Lao and Yoruba. Good use of CSS is essential to developing well internationalized web sites. Unfortunately, from the point of view of developing internationalized user interfaces, there's a lot lacking in CSS 2.1. The very idea that Andrew ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Tables - you can still use them in web design article
Joseph R. B. Taylor wrote: Is it not true, that the complete separation will offer the greatest flexibility that is part of the bigger picture of the information on the internet and it's foreseeable future? I'd agree with you. CSS handling the presentation layer of information is part of this future. Tables handling presentation disrupts this separation. although in certain areas CSS has a long way to go. CSS3 will be an improvement when it eventuates, and if it gets enough support in web browsers. Andrew ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Tables - you can still use them in web design article
Hi Al, Yeah that article is more the kind of thing I can handle as he gives a good overview even while taking his position. The article's dates... Page created: 1 January, 2004 Page last updated: 13 January, 2005 ...are interesting though considering his comment... I estimate news sites are publishing about 100,000 pages or more every day. The overwhelming majority of these use layout-tables. The notable exceptions are Wired of course, and c|net news.com, and er (gosh). ...which just goes to show how quickly things are developing as we could all gather many more recent examples of news sites that have adopted CSS layouts. Nick From: Nick Lo [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know there are plenty of these articles but unfortunately I got drawn into this one (possibly as it was in my Netregistry newsletter!): - - http://www.netregistry.com.au/news/articles/79/1 I always found Barry Pearson to be enormously entertaining and thorough. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but it's a fun read - so long as you read it open-mindedly :-) http://www.barry.pearson.name/articles/layout_tables/index.htm -- Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
