[WSG] Alerting users upon page reloading

2006-06-04 Thread John S. Britsios

Hello everybody,

I have a question:

It is obvious that if users enter invalid data in forms, eg. user name 
and/or password, or email address,
we should not automatically change or refresh the browser window without 
first alerting him/her that a
change will occur and giving him/her the ability to disable or postpone 
the change.


We added a title attribute to the submit button: Page will reload!, 
and when the page reloading, the user
with be directed to that page part, before the label tag, and will get a 
error message too.


For example, try to subscribe our newsletter with an invalid email 
address to see what I mean here: http://www.webnauts.net


Does this solve the accessibility problem?

Thanks in advance for your kind comments, or for your alternative solutions.

Best,

John

--
John S. Britsios
Web Architect  Marketing Consultant

Webnauts Net (Main Office)
Koblenzer Str. 37A
D-33613 Bielefeld

Webnauts Net (U.S. Office)
5 Ivanhoe Drive
Urbana IL 61802

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web address: http://www.webnauts.net



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Re: [WSG] Alerting users upon page reloading

2006-06-04 Thread Lachlan Hunt

John S. Britsios wrote:

It is obvious that if users enter invalid data in forms, eg. user
name and/or password, or email address, we should not automatically
change or refresh the browser window without first alerting him/her
that a change will occur and giving him/her the ability to disable or
postpone the change.

We added a title attribute to the submit button: Page will reload!,


When a user activates a submit button, they expect that the page will be 
replaced.  There is no need to notify them of such things.


Guidelines about notifying users of page refreshes only applies to 
situations where it doesn't happen as a direct result of a user action. 
 e.g. using meta refresh or JS to refresh the page after a time interval.



and when the page reloading, the user with be directed to that page
part, before the label tag, and will get a error message too.


That's a good technique.

--
Lachlan Hunt
http://lachy.id.au/


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[WSG] Pixel Perfect

2006-06-04 Thread Bruce



Hi all,

I ran into something todat from a client I have never seen 
here or elsewhere.

A client claiming there must be code errors because in making 
a pdf file of the site there are a couple of images out a few pixels, one 
considerably. Says clients need to be able to make nice copies of the 
site!

The site is 100% error free in both code and css according to 
the w3c validator, no errors, no warnings on css.
Has anyone ran into this? I have the tendency to tell the 
client to shop elsewhere

Thanks

Bruce Prochnau
BKDesign Solutions


 
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Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect

2006-06-04 Thread 1802
The site is 100% error free in both code and css according to the 
w3c validator, no errors, no warnings on css.
Has anyone ran into this? I have the tendency to tell the client to 
shop elsewhere


Can we take a look to this site?
--

Matteo Discardi 1802
http://homepage.mac.com/matteo.discardi

Transcending History and the World,
a tale of Soul and Swords
eternally retold
SoulCalibur


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Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect

2006-06-04 Thread Christian Montoya

On 6/4/06, Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Hi all,

I ran into something todat from a client I have never seen here or
elsewhere.

A client claiming there must be code errors because in making a pdf file of
the site there are a couple of images out a few pixels, one considerably.
Says clients need to be able to make nice copies of the site!


Exactly how is the client generating PDFs?

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com


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Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect

2006-06-04 Thread Marko Mihelcic - founder of mcville.net (http.//www.mcville.net)|(http://board.mcville.net)

yeah a URL would be great :D

On 6/4/06, 1802 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

The site is 100% error free in both code and css according to the
w3c validator, no errors, no warnings on css.
Has anyone ran into this? I have the tendency to tell the client to
shop elsewhere

Can we take a look to this site?
--

Matteo Discardi 1802
http://homepage.mac.com/matteo.discardi

Transcending History and the World,
a tale of Soul and Swords
eternally retold
SoulCalibur


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Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect

2006-06-04 Thread Bruce

Matteo wrote:

Can we take a look to this site?



Yes, it isn't perfect or done yet but is in process:
http://66.118.191.85/~websterk/index.php

Thanks

Bruce Prochnau

1802 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect


The site is 100% error free in both code and css according to the 

w3c validator, no errors, no warnings on css.
Has anyone ran into this? I have the tendency to tell the client to 
shop elsewhere


Can we take a look to this site?
--

Matteo Discardi 1802
http://homepage.mac.com/matteo.discardi

Transcending History and the World,
a tale of Soul and Swords
eternally retold
SoulCalibur


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Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect

2006-06-04 Thread Bruce

Bob McClelland wrote:
When I print to acrobat distiller, the pdf is nothing like the web site!  I 
wouldn't expect it to be actually, unless I'd provided a print style sheet. 
Did I miss it? I couldn't see one in there.


Also Bruce, folk using IE with text size set to small will not be able to 
read a fair proportion of the text - it's miniscule!  Sorry if you don't 
want to hear that - just trying to be helpful.

**

Thanks for the feedback,
I haven't added a print stylesheet yet, will soon though. I make print 
stylesheet for people to print the articles, not the entire page lol.
Appreciate the font tip, hadn't noticed and will fix. I have no idea what 
she used to make site pdf, asked her...


Bruce Prochnau
bkdesign

- Original Message - 
From: Designer [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect



Bruce wrote:

Yes, it isn't perfect or done yet but is in process:
http://66.118.191.85/~websterk/index.php

Thanks

Bruce Prochnau


When I print to acrobat distiller, the pdf is nothing like the web site! 
I wouldn't expect it to be actually, unless I'd provided a print style 
sheet.  Did I miss it? I couldn't see one in there.


Also Bruce, folk using IE with text size set to small will not be able to 
read a fair proportion of the text - it's miniscule!  Sorry if you don't 
want to hear that - just trying to be helpful.


--
Best Regards,

Bob McClelland

Cornwall (UK)
www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk




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Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect

2006-06-04 Thread David Dixon
Im just going to echo what Bob said. Your site will not print properly 
because a) your site is fixed width and is not designed to scale with 
smaller display areas (such as the translated size of A4 paper), and b) 
you do not have any style sheet that applies to printed pages, so that 
the fixed width will be converted to a variable width site (ready for 
for document printing).


My advise would be to add in a print style sheet, that a) converts the 
page to a variable width format and b) removes non-required elements 
such as redundant images, headers, navigation etc. Printing a site (or 
converting to pdf) is generally done to be able to view the content of 
the page they are after, not to have a duplicate paper copy of a website.


Thanks,

David.

Designer wrote:

Bruce wrote:

Yes, it isn't perfect or done yet but is in process:
http://66.118.191.85/~websterk/index.php

Thanks

Bruce Prochnau


When I print to acrobat distiller, the pdf is nothing like the web 
site!  I wouldn't expect it to be actually, unless I'd provided a print 
style sheet.  Did I miss it? I couldn't see one in there.


Also Bruce, folk using IE with text size set to small will not be able 
to read a fair proportion of the text - it's miniscule!  Sorry if you 
don't want to hear that - just trying to be helpful.





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Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect

2006-06-04 Thread Bruce

Thanks for the feedback.

I said:
1) The site isnt done yet.
2) The print stylesheet hasnt been added yet.
I asked about pdf's actually, if anyone has been asked to have the entire 
site viewable as pdf and have it look perfect:


Thanks
bruce Prochnau

- Original Message - 
From: David Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect


Im just going to echo what Bob said. Your site will not print properly 
because a) your site is fixed width and is not designed to scale with 
smaller display areas (such as the translated size of A4 paper), and b) 
you do not have any style sheet that applies to printed pages, so that the 
fixed width will be converted to a variable width site (ready for for 
document printing).


My advise would be to add in a print style sheet, that a) converts the 
page to a variable width format and b) removes non-required elements such 
as redundant images, headers, navigation etc. Printing a site (or 
converting to pdf) is generally done to be able to view the content of the 
page they are after, not to have a duplicate paper copy of a website.


Thanks,

David.

Designer wrote:

Bruce wrote:

Yes, it isn't perfect or done yet but is in process:
http://66.118.191.85/~websterk/index.php

Thanks

Bruce Prochnau


When I print to acrobat distiller, the pdf is nothing like the web site! 
I wouldn't expect it to be actually, unless I'd provided a print style 
sheet.  Did I miss it? I couldn't see one in there.


Also Bruce, folk using IE with text size set to small will not be able to 
read a fair proportion of the text - it's miniscule!  Sorry if you don't 
want to hear that - just trying to be helpful.





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Re: [WSG] pls help

2006-06-04 Thread Leonard Salubayba



heres the sample file http://w3fire.com//mockup/simms/thanks

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Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect

2006-06-04 Thread Jan Brasna

entire site viewable as pdf


But what does that mean exactly? Bruce, making PDF files from a site is 
done by printing it to a PDF writer, so it is dependent on the print 
style sheet most of the times.


--
Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net


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Re: [WSG] pls help

2006-06-04 Thread Shawn Cassick




Leonard Salubayba wrote:
hi
i am having prob with my css layout pls help. i have a liquid layout
which is 90% in width, what i want is, when i minimize it and goes
below 800x600 res, i want it to stop there and instead have a
horizontal scrollbar. coz my div keeps dropping and it not good. pls
anyone help? 
  
  
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Try putting a min-width and min-height on it, of course you will need
to define max also just set that to your 90%, and for some reason in
opera, unless some else has a better idea, I've realized that you also
need to set a standard definition for it. I guess you could say
something like this

the_div {
 width: XX;
 height: XX;

 max-width: XX;
 max-height: XX;

 min-width: 800px;
 min-height: 600px;
}

Also for the scrollbar you can try adding an "overflow" to the CSS of
the div you want to have it.

and yes, I know that the W3C CSS Validator will say it is not valid as
you are using percentage and then pixel, but I am sure you can figure
out the percentage for 800x600.


Hope it was at least some help,
Shawn Cassick
Cassick_Designs 


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Re: [WSG] pls help

2006-06-04 Thread Stephen Neate
Hi Lenoard,Whilst the min-width, min-height will work in the likes of FireFox you will find that it does fall over in the likes of IE. I had a similar issue for a navigation toolbar for a client where 300 of their terminal users were on 800x600 max resolutions, although with the amount of navigation required around 840px space width. Wrapping the navigation wasnt an option so a div was placed just above with a 1px height and 840px width.
This may sound very old fashioned (aka tables and spacers) but it does work. You could place either a spacer gif, or 2 more divs in your code that are 800px wide and 600px deep. With a depth/width of only 1px. 
That way you will force the scroll bars on the smaller monitors. Most likely 760 x 520 would be more appropriate to take into account that even 800x600 monitors dont have a true width of 800, and the height a little less to take into account users toolbars etc...
Cheers

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Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect

2006-06-04 Thread Steven Tan
Hi Bruce,

You can use some application servers to generate PDF on the fly. 

I have used Coldfusion MX 7 server to generate PDF of HTML pages. 
See here for more info: 
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/coldfusion/video_tutorials.html

I think .net has something similar too. 

Hope this helps.

Steven


On Monday, June 05, 2006, at 05:33AM, Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Thanks for the feedback.

I said:
1) The site isnt done yet.
2) The print stylesheet hasnt been added yet.
I asked about pdf's actually, if anyone has been asked to have the entire 
site viewable as pdf and have it look perfect:

Thanks
bruce Prochnau

- Original Message - 
From: David Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect


 Im just going to echo what Bob said. Your site will not print properly 
 because a) your site is fixed width and is not designed to scale with 
 smaller display areas (such as the translated size of A4 paper), and b) 
 you do not have any style sheet that applies to printed pages, so that the 
 fixed width will be converted to a variable width site (ready for for 
 document printing).

 My advise would be to add in a print style sheet, that a) converts the 
 page to a variable width format and b) removes non-required elements such 
 as redundant images, headers, navigation etc. Printing a site (or 
 converting to pdf) is generally done to be able to view the content of the 
 page they are after, not to have a duplicate paper copy of a website.

 Thanks,

 David.

 Designer wrote:
 Bruce wrote:
 Yes, it isn't perfect or done yet but is in process:
 http://66.118.191.85/~websterk/index.php

 Thanks

 Bruce Prochnau

 When I print to acrobat distiller, the pdf is nothing like the web site! 
 I wouldn't expect it to be actually, unless I'd provided a print style 
 sheet.  Did I miss it? I couldn't see one in there.

 Also Bruce, folk using IE with text size set to small will not be able to 
 read a fair proportion of the text - it's miniscule!  Sorry if you don't 
 want to hear that - just trying to be helpful.



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 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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 **

 



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Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect

2006-06-04 Thread Doc
Bruce,I haven't been asked this before - not in 10 years. Typically there's a requirement for a particular page(s) to be able to be saved as a PDF, but for that we provide dedicated  specific functionality - using a server-side PDF generator. It's a reasonable request, though, and could be achieved using a print stylesheet (which I understand haven't been added yet), so you may want to ask the client for definite requirements in this regard. 
From the sounds of it the requirements aren't clear at this stage - there's no way I'd expect a Web page to create a perfect PDF without special consideration of that requirement up-front.CheersSteve
On 05/06/06, Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







Hi all,

I ran into something todat from a client I have never seen 
here or elsewhere.

A client claiming there must be code errors because in making 
a pdf file of the site there are a couple of images out a few pixels, one 
considerably. Says clients need to be able to make nice copies of the 
site!

The site is 100% error free in both code and css according to 
the w3c validator, no errors, no warnings on css.
Has anyone ran into this? I have the tendency to tell the 
client to shop elsewhere

Thanks

Bruce Prochnau-- --Steve 'Doc' Baty B.Sc (Maths), M.EC, MBA
Director, User Experience StrategyRed SquareP: +612 8289 4930M: +61 417 061 292Member, UPA - www.upassoc.orgMember, IxDA - www.ixda.org
Member, Web Standards Group - www.webstandardsgroup.org

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Re: [WSG] pls help

2006-06-04 Thread David Hucklesby
Leonard Salubayba wrote: 

 hi i am having prob with my css layout pls help. i have a liquid layout 
 which is 90% in width, what i want is, when i minimize it and goes 
 below 800x600 res, i want it to stop there and instead have a 
 horizontal scrollbar. coz my div keeps dropping and it not good. pls 
 anyone help?
 

Stu Nicholls has a min-width solution for Internet Explorer on Windows. 
It does require you to put IE in quirks mode however, so may or may not 
be appropriate to your needs. See here:

  http://www.cssplay.co.uk/boxes/minwidth.html

Cordially,
David
-- 
David Hucklesby, on 6/4/2006
http://www.hucklesby.com/
--





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Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect

2006-06-04 Thread RobS
Hi Bruce,

Bruce wrote on 04-06-2006:

  I asked about a client  recreating a site as a pdf, and having that
  expected,  the entire site, and if anyone has had that requested as
  I have never been asked to have that.

Maybe not exactly a match, but I have had problems where a client wanted
the website, including navigation bars etc... in the printed output, and
images printing at different scales to the online version...

The problems were (as far as I recall) limited to background images, and
only manifest in Firefox on Mac, where they printed larger than the live
webpage. I thought it was related to the dpi of the images, so fixed
that and still got the same problem. Changing the background image for
printing was also not a solution because all other browsers I tried were
consistent with the sizing of background images, whether live page or
printed... even firefox on PC got it 'right'. I remain baffled.

Maybe it helps shed some light...

Best regards

Rob


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[WSG] AJAX Question

2006-06-04 Thread Omen King
Good Evening WSG,I have been exploring AJAX and wondered if I could achieve the same result of retrieving data from XML documents locally from a directory but without the requirment of a HTTP Server to serve up the page.
I am intriguied of the idea of developing a web application that could be used locally without the requirement of a HTTP server.Could anyone help me please think of a method to which this is possible?Thanks WSG,


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Re: [WSG] pls help

2006-06-04 Thread Shawn Cassick




Leonard Salubayba wrote:

  
  
  
  
  hey guys thanks for the help (shawn,
davi, stephen) ill try to do what you have suggested, i just woke up
hope this will work, thanks ill give you updates
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
Shawn Cassick 
To:
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
Sent:
Sunday, June 04, 2006 2:42 PM
Subject:
Re: [WSG] pls help


Leonard Salubayba wrote:
hi i am having prob with my css layout pls help. i have a
liquid layout which is 90% in width, what i want is, when i minimize it
and goes below 800x600 res, i want it to stop there and instead have a
horizontal scrollbar. coz my div keeps dropping and it not good. pls
anyone help? 
  
  
** 
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
  
  
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
  
for some hints on posting to the list  getting help 
** 
  
  

Try putting a min-width and min-height on it, of course you will need
to define max also just set that to your 90%, and for some reason in
opera, unless some else has a better idea, I've realized that you also
need to set a standard definition for it. I guess you could say
something like this

the_div {
 width: XX;
 height: XX;

 max-width: XX;
 max-height: XX;

 min-width: 800px;
 min-height: 600px;
}

Also for the scrollbar you can try adding an "overflow" to the CSS of
the div you want to have it.

and yes, I know that the W3C CSS Validator will say it is not valid as
you are using percentage and then pixel, but I am sure you can figure
out the percentage for 800x600.


Hope it was at least some help,
Shawn Cassick
Cassick_Designs 


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good luck man, let us now.

Shawn Cassick
Cassick_Designs 



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Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect

2006-06-04 Thread Gene Falck

Hi Steven,

You wrote:


I have used Coldfusion MX 7 server to generate PDF
of HTML pages. ...

I think .net has something similar too.


I just came from checking for info on the site of
one of our fine commercial enterprises that was,
it seems, generated by .net. After not being able
to successfully click on any of the apparent link
icons, I checked the page source and it was a mess
in regard to standards. The page markup had a nasty
inline JavaScript line above the DOCTYPE, no URI in
the DOCTYPE, JavaScript in the head, a call to an
external JS in the head, and JavaScript in the body.
I finally found the information I wanted in a .pdf
that I had to magnify to be able to bring the tiny
type up out of pixel hell.

My impression is that the .net way is not a nice
way to go if you want standards-based markup.

--

Regards,

Gene Falck
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect

2006-06-04 Thread Nick Cowie
Adobe Acrobat has the ability to capture a website as a pdf documentWhen I last used it with Acrobat 4 in about 2001, it's rendering engine then was quite different to other browsers at the time (IE5 and NN4.7). 
The differences that your client is seeing is probably due to differences in rendering engine. ie the Adobe engine is not standard compliant.My advice, show your client how to capture her website using tools other than Adobe Acrobat. 
-- Nick Cowiehttp://nickcowie.com

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Re: [WSG] Pixel Perfect

2006-06-04 Thread Bruce


Nick Cowie wrote:

When I last used it with Acrobat 4 in about 2001, it's rendering engine 
then was quite different to other browsers at the time (IE5 and NN4.7).
The differences that your client is seeing is probably due to differences 
in rendering engine. ie the Adobe engine is not standard compliant.
My advice, show your client how to capture her website using tools other 
than Adobe Acrobat. 


**
Actually I just heard back from her:

I have a button in both Mozilla and IE where I just click convert to PDF (I 
have the full version of Acrobat Pro).  It works for 95% of web sites and 
it's how I save web pages.   I also can usually print a reasonable rendition 
of a page directly in IE or Firefox so I was curious why it gets so jumbled 
on my web site...
Now that the shock has worn off lol...it isn't unrealistic to ask to have 
the site render nicely as a pdf, but it certainly threw me for a loop. I did 
inform her it would be looked into last, and may cost extra depending on the 
work involved, as there certainly was no agreement to have it look nice as a 
pdf!

lol
On the group here I have heard it don't look right in ie, in firefox, in 
whateverbut never have I seen, it doesn't render right as a pdf!!!


I suppose, on reflection,  this isn't really a standards related post as I 
have the main page valid as css and xhtmldunno...

However;
Quote:
The differences that your client is seeing is probably due to differences 
in rendering engine. ie the Adobe engine is not standard compliant.

Is great info!!!

Thanks all

bruce Prochnau
bkdesign 




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RE: [WSG] AJAX Question

2006-06-04 Thread Samuel Richardson








You might have better luck asking on a
forum dedicated to _javascript_ or AJAX rather then web standards.





-Original
Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Omen King
Sent: Monday, 5 June 2006 1:34 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] AJAX Question



Well
I was hoping if there was some way this was already supported by _javascript_,
But if it were to be another client side programming other than _javascript_ than
C++.





On 6/4/06, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On
6/4/06, Omen King [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 Good Evening WSG,

 I have been exploring AJAX and wondered if I could achieve the same result
 of retrieving data from XML documents locally from a directory but without

 the requirment of a HTTP Server to serve up the page.
 I am intriguied of the idea of developing a web application that could be
 used locally without the requirement of a HTTP server.

 Could anyone help me please think of a method to which this is possible? 

Client side programming? Java or C++?

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com 


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Re: [WSG] AJAX Question

2006-06-04 Thread Omen King
hmmm, this is true Samuel.I shall search for a community for AJAX, good Idea.ThanksOn 6/4/06, Samuel Richardson 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:















You might have better luck asking on a
forum dedicated to _javascript_ or AJAX
 rather then web standards.





-Original
Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:listdad@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Omen King
Sent: Monday, 5 June 2006 1:34 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] AJAX Question



Well
I was hoping if there was some way this was already supported by _javascript_,
But if it were to be another client side programming other than _javascript_ than
C++.





On 6/4/06, Christian Montoya 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On
6/4/06, Omen King [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 Good Evening WSG,

 I have been exploring AJAX and wondered if I could achieve the same result
 of retrieving data from XML documents locally from a directory but without

 the requirment of a HTTP Server to serve up the page.
 I am intriguied of the idea of developing a web application that could be
 used locally without the requirement of a HTTP server.

 Could anyone help me please think of a method to which this is possible? 

Client side programming? Java or C++?

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... 
portfolio.christianmontoya.com 


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The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/

See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
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 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
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