Re: [WSG] Son of Suckerfish - right to left

2006-09-21 Thread Ido Dekkers

Andrew Cunningham wrote:

Dear Ido

If you want to mark up a whole page as RTL, you should put the dir 
attibute on the HTML element and not on the BODY element.


The W3C'S Internationalization Best Practices recommends adding 
dir=rtl to the html tag any time the overall document direction is 
right-to-left.



Thank you Andrew,

I'm so glad i joined this list - so much knowledge : -)

Ido


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Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to

2006-09-21 Thread Jan Brasna

IE7 handles transparent PNGs, and IE5.5 and 6 can use a proprietary
filter to display them correctly.


Issue with the filter is that it can't be applied to tiled background.


The stats I have (massive europe-wide company dealing directly with
all types of consumer) is that IE5 is below 0.1%, IE5.5 around 1.2%
and IE6 still at 85-90% usage.


In entry analysis for our recent client (publishing company, technical 
book store) we found that IE5 is 1.2% which means approx. the same as 
Safari - it is a bit disappointing.


--
Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net


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[WSG] z-index with ie

2006-09-21 Thread Able Net Design



Hi,

I'm playing with z-index's for a site I am 
buildings. In FF there is not a problem the site looks exactly how I would 
expect it to look but when you view it in IE nothing is right.


div#header {background: #ff; height: 80px; position: static; z-index:1;}div#header img {position: relative; border: 0; margin: 0; padding: 0; width: 150px; 
height: 
150px; z-index: 2; float: right; bottom: 25px; 
right: 25px;}
I have been reading about an issue with 
position:relative and z-index with IE but 
can't seem to finda solution.

Any ideas?

Kind Regards,
Tristan

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Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to

2006-09-21 Thread Matthew Pennell

On 9/21/06, Jan Brasna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 IE7 handles transparent PNGs, and IE5.5 and 6 can use a proprietary
 filter to display them correctly.

Issue with the filter is that it can't be applied to tiled background.



Works fine on my site.


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Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to

2006-09-21 Thread Jan Brasna

Issue with the filter is that it can't be applied to tiled background.


Works fine on my site.


Neither #header nor a#logo have *tiled* backgrounds.

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Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to

2006-09-21 Thread Matthew Pennell

On 9/21/06, Jan Brasna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Neither #header nor a#logo have *tiled* backgrounds.


Sorry, thought you meant PNGs placed on top of a tiled background.


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RE: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to

2006-09-21 Thread Ted Drake
I've had significant, if not too much experience with IE7 and transparent
png behaviors. 
http://last-child.com/index.php?s=ie7+transparent+png 


Here's what I would suggest. 

IE6 is going to become a minor player for the majority of web sites within a
year. Microsoft has an aggressive schedule planned to get people to upgrade
to IE7. There are significant security issues that have been solved with the
new browser and it is going to be a high priority upgrade. That said, you
need to code your css for IE7, not IE6.

When it comes to transparent png images, IE7 will behave the same as firefox
and Safari as of IE7 RC1.  The bug I reported with the transparent png
sprites has been fixed.  You should create an IE6 style sheet and import
that via a conditional comment:  I have found that IE7 still needs you to
invoke hasLayout and the double margin float bug. You could either create a
new IE7 specific style sheet or add a couple innocuous styles to your main
style sheet.
To invoke hasLayout use {zoom:1}. Don't use height:1% anymore. IE7 will
treat that correctly.
To avoid double margin float issue, add {display:inline;} to your floated
objects.

Other than that, you may have some box-model issues left in your IE7 style
sheet.  Personally, I'm a fan of keeping your hacks out of the main style
sheet. However, it is an extra http:request for the majority of your
customers. That is a trade off you need to evaluate.

Here's the conditional comment code

! -[if IE 7]
link href=/css/ie7.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=all/
![endif]-
! -[if lte IE 6]
link href=/css/ie6.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=all/
![endif]-  
You can hack inside your style sheets to target IE6, IE7, and both at the
same time.
http://www.last-child.com/ie7-hacks/ 
If you need to send something to IE6 and nothing else: use the underscore
attribute hack (_border:1px solid pink;) If you want to send something to
IE7 AND IE6, use the *attribute hack (*border:1px solid black;). If you want
to send something to IE7 and NOT IE6, use a combination (*border:1px solid
black; _border:1px solid pink;).

Ted Drake
www.last-child.com
 






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RE: [WSG] z-index with ie

2006-09-21 Thread Ted Drake








IE6 and z-index issues are enough to make
Fabio go bald.



IE6 looks not only at the z-index of bob
and sue but the z-index of their parents. Does that make sense?



If you want bob to sit on top of sue, Bobs
parent container needs to have a higher z-index than sues parents.



It becomes an ugly game of keeping up with
the Jones family. 



http://www.last-child.com/conflicting-z-index-in-ie6/



when you come across a z-indexed element
that needs to sit on top of a select box, you better hope Bobs
grandparents are rich and famous because it takes a hell of a lot of
connections to fix this nightmare.



Hedger Wang has a solution http://www.last-child.com/hedger-wang-is-god-well-a-guru-at-least/

Or you could use the Yahoo User Interface
library. The container library handles this for you. 



Ted













From:
listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Able Net Design
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006
1:12 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] z-index with ie







Hi,











I'm playing with z-index's for a site I am buildings. In FF
there is not a problem the site looks exactly how I would expect it to look but
when you view it in IE nothing is right.











div#header {background:
#ff; height:
80px;
position: static; z-index:1;}
div#header img {position:
relative; border:
0; margin:
0; padding:
0; width:
150px;
height: 150px; z-index:
2; float:
right; bottom:
25px;
right: 25px;}





I have been reading about an issue with position:relative
and z-index
with IE but can't seem to finda solution.











Any ideas?











Kind Regards,





Tristan








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Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to

2006-09-21 Thread Jan Brasna

! -[if IE 7]
link href=/css/ie7.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=all/
![endif]-
! -[if lte IE 6]
link href=/css/ie6.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=all/
![endif]-  


I'd go for the option of one IE-stylesheet with separating the 
browsers inside (direct selectors for IE7-specific issues, * html foo 
for IE6- etc.).


--
Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net


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RE: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to

2006-09-21 Thread Ted Drake
No no no no no

Don't use * html! That won't work.

If you need to separate the browsers, use *border and _border on the
individual styles.

Ted




-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Jan Brasna
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 9:21 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to

 ! -[if IE 7]
 link href=/css/ie7.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=all/
 ![endif]-
 ! -[if lte IE 6]
 link href=/css/ie6.css type=text/css rel=stylesheet media=all/
 ![endif]-  

I'd go for the option of one IE-stylesheet with separating the 
browsers inside (direct selectors for IE7-specific issues, * html foo 
for IE6- etc.).

-- 
Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net


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Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to

2006-09-21 Thread Nick Fitzsimons

On 21 Sep 2006, at 17:55, Ted Drake wrote:


No no no no no

Don't use * html! That won't work.



* html will work to separate IE6 rules from IE7 rules, as IE7 no  
longer understands it (given that it's parsing in strict mode). See

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/09/02/460115.aspx

Regards,

Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/





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Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to

2006-09-21 Thread Jan Brasna

Don't use * html! That won't work.


How comes? You maybe didn't understand what I meant.

--
Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net


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Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to

2006-09-21 Thread Jan Brasna

Neither #header nor a#logo have *tiled* backgrounds.


Sorry, thought you meant PNGs placed on top of a tiled background.


Yup, I thought so ;) The issue is when you'd need the actual transparent 
background to repeat, then you can't use the filter. It would be handy 
in various stretching/collapsing boxes, shrinking headers, or just 
translucent shadows etc.


--
Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net


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RE: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to

2006-09-21 Thread Ted Drake
Technically, I can see you using the * html inside an IE only style sheet.
However, it is a bad idea to use it in general. There are a lot of sites
breaking because people depended on *html, many I've built included. 

When I see someone suggest using it, my gut reaction is to say, no. Don't
use *html because it is an outdated hack. Use conditional comments and if
you have to use a hack, the *property and _property are two hacks that can
be used dependably with IE6 and IE7

Ted



-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Jan Brasna
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:41 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to

 Don't use * html! That won't work.

How comes? You maybe didn't understand what I meant.

-- 
Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net


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[WSG] WIPA

2006-09-21 Thread Mike Brown

Good stuff Russ et al!

for once we might even have to admit the Aussies have done it better.

Compare and contrast

WIPA http://www.wipa.org.au/

Web Developers Association of New Zealand http://www.wdanz.co.nz/

Mike



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Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to

2006-09-21 Thread John Faulds - Tyssen Design
Technically, I can see you using the * html inside an IE only style  
sheet.


I've been doing that a bit lately as sometimes there may be only one or  
two rules that are different between = 6 or 7 and it doesn't seem worth  
the effort creating a separate stylesheet for both and then conditional  
comments to call the two when * html will do the job just the same.


--
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Web  print design services
www.tyssendesign.com.au
Ph: (07) 3300 3303
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RE: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to

2006-09-21 Thread Ted Drake
I would still advise that you use the *property/_property hack instead of *
html. 

I don't have anything to point to other than some discussions with the IE7
folks and it's what they recommend.  Well, they're not going to recommend
any hacking. But they downplay * html.  I'd prefer to go with something that
has unofficial head nodding than something they plead that people don't use.

Who knows what future problems may come with *html?

Ted


-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of John Faulds - Tyssen Design
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:32 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to

 Technically, I can see you using the * html inside an IE only style  
 sheet.

I've been doing that a bit lately as sometimes there may be only one or  
two rules that are different between = 6 or 7 and it doesn't seem worth  
the effort creating a separate stylesheet for both and then conditional  
comments to call the two when * html will do the job just the same.

-- 
Tyssen Design
Web  print design services
www.tyssendesign.com.au
Ph: (07) 3300 3303
Mb: 0405 678 590


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Re: [WSG] What version of IE should be build to

2006-09-21 Thread Jan Brasna

Who knows what future problems may come with *html?


Future problems when targeting back to particular (dead) browsers do not 
bother me.


--
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[WSG] Site check: lot's of space where there shouldn't be any

2006-09-21 Thread Taco Fleur
Title: Website design - Pacific Fox



Good morning 
all,

We have a page that is displaying an 
enormous amount of white where there shouldn't be any. I validated the page http://development.yellaterra.com.au:92/products/car-performance/product-detail/index.cfm?productCategoryIdentity=2modelIdentity=2and it's 
fine.

In Firefox however 
there is about 250px space between the "Make: British Leyland 
Model: "A" Series" and the header "Cylinder Heads", I was wondering if anyone knew what is causing 
that? There are a few more issues on this page, but I'll 
stick with asking for help on the space for now.
Thanks in advance 
for any 
help.


Kind 
regards,Taco 
Fleur 


Pacific 
Foxfree call 
1800 032 982 or mobile 0421 851 786  fax 07 3414 
6464, international +61 7 3325 5103www.pacificfox.com.au an 
industry leader with commercial experience since 1994  
our 
services: 

  
  online, 
  print, marketing  information 
  technology
  
  website, 
  branding, logo, business cards, letterheads
  
  hosting, 
  e-commerce, domain names, sms solutions and web 
strategy

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Re: [WSG] Site check: lot's of space where there shouldn't be any

2006-09-21 Thread John Faulds - Tyssen Design
It's the clear: both on the 'Cylinder Heads' h2 which is causing the  
problem.


On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 09:41:17 +1000, Taco Fleur [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:



Good morning all,
We have a page that is displaying an enormous amount of white where there
shouldn't be any. I validated the page
http://development.yellaterra.com.au:92/products/car-performance/product-det
ail/index.cfm?productCategoryIdentity=2
http://development.yellaterra.com.au:92/products/car-performance/product-de
tail/index.cfm?productCategoryIdentity=2modelIdentity=2  
modelIdentity=2

and it's fine.
In Firefox however there is about 250px space between the Make: British
Leyland Model: A Series and the header Cylinder Heads, I was  
wondering

if anyone knew what is causing that? There are a few more issues on this
page, but I'll stick with asking for help on the space for now.
Thanks in advance for any help.

Kind regards,
Taco Fleur

  _

Pacific Fox
free call 1800 032 982 or mobile 0421 851 786 - fax 07 3414 6464,
international +61 7 3325 5103
www.pacificfox.com.au http://www.pacificfox.com.au/?source=email  an
industry leader with commercial experience since 1994 .

our services:

*
online, print, marketing  information technology

*
website, branding, logo, business cards, letterheads

*
hosting, e-commerce, domain names, sms solutions and web strategy



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Re: [WSG] Site check: lot's of space where there shouldn't be any

2006-09-21 Thread Joseph R. B. Taylor

Taco Fleur wrote:


Good morning all,
 
We have a page that is displaying an enormous amount of white where 
there shouldn't be any. I validated the page 
http://development.yellaterra.com.au:92/products/car-performance/product-detail/index.cfm?productCategoryIdentity=2modelIdentity=2 
http://development.yellaterra.com.au:92/products/car-performance/product-detail/index.cfm?productCategoryIdentity=2modelIdentity=2 and 
it's fine.
 
In Firefox however there is about 250px space between the Make: 
*British Leyland* Model: *A Series* and the header Cylinder 
Heads, I was wondering if anyone knew what is causing that? There are 
a few more issues on this page, but I'll stick with asking for help on 
the space for now.

Thanks in advance for any help.


Taco,

It looks like a clear:right issue on your content there.  It's simply dropping 
below the right menu.  Try enlarging/shrinking the text and you'll see it move 
along with the height of the menu.

The div above the heading where the trouble begins seems to behave, so you may 
want to consider moving your content either into that div or nesting everything 
into a div that handles the whole main column.

I also noticed that your rollovers are being bad - disappearing on rollover 
until everything loads (IE7 and Firefox).  I'm guessing your switching images 
instead of changing background positions on one image - bad Taco!

--
Joseph R. B. Taylor
Sites by Joe, LLC
http://sitesbyjoe.com
(609)335-3076
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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[WSG] Content Jumps onClick in Firefox

2006-09-21 Thread Samuel Richardson
 
An interesting bug this one, open up:

http://www.intrepidtravel.com/

In Firefox. Scroll to the bottom of the page and click on one of the country
links, you'll notice that just after the click the content of that area
jumps down. I thought it might have been something to do with line-heights
set on the links active state but the link clicked can cause an entirely
different line in the same area to jump down. Plus I haven't explicitly set
any styles on active links anywhere in the CSS.

Any ideas? I've just noticed this happening on a few other pages in
different areas and I suspect it's a fundamental flaw somewhere in my CSS.

Thanks,

Samuel
www.intrepidtravel.com 



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Re: [WSG] Content Jumps onClick in Firefox

2006-09-21 Thread Rahul Gonsalves

Samuel Richardson wrote:
 
An interesting bug this one, open up:


http://www.intrepidtravel.com/

In Firefox. Scroll to the bottom of the page and click on one of the country
links, you'll notice that just after the click the content of that area
jumps down. I thought it might have been something to do with line-heights
set on the links active state but the link clicked can cause an entirely
different line in the same area to jump down. Plus I haven't explicitly set
any styles on active links anywhere in the CSS.


Hi, Samuel,

Beginner here trying to troubleshoot quite an advanced (and very nice) 
website.


Try adding:

a { outline: none;}

This disables the outline box surrounding links, that appears in 
Firefox, which is very useful, accessibility wise. Remove at your own 
risk. You can duplicate this by using the keyboard to navigate through 
the links - the box essentially shows up on :focus.


I hope this helps,
Regards,
 - Rahul.


--

Rahul Gonsalves (Personal)
w: www.rahulgonsalves.com
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-


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Re: [WSG] Content Jumps onClick in Firefox

2006-09-21 Thread John Faulds

Try adding line-height: 0.8em to ul#interlinks li.

On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:45:02 +1000, Samuel Richardson  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



An interesting bug this one, open up:

http://www.intrepidtravel.com/

In Firefox. Scroll to the bottom of the page and click on one of the  
country

links, you'll notice that just after the click the content of that area
jumps down. I thought it might have been something to do with  
line-heights

set on the links active state but the link clicked can cause an entirely
different line in the same area to jump down. Plus I haven't explicitly  
set

any styles on active links anywhere in the CSS.

Any ideas? I've just noticed this happening on a few other pages in
different areas and I suspect it's a fundamental flaw somewhere in my  
CSS.


Thanks,

Samuel
www.intrepidtravel.com



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RE: [WSG] Content Jumps onClick in Firefox

2006-09-21 Thread Samuel Richardson
Spot on, that's worked a treat. My understanding of the outline rule was
that it would place an outline around an element without affecting the box
model (as opposed to a border which will contribute to the width the
element).

Interesting none the less, thanks for that.

Samuel

-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rahul Gonsalves
Sent: Friday, 22 September 2006 12:03 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Content Jumps onClick in Firefox

Samuel Richardson wrote:
  
 An interesting bug this one, open up:
 
 http://www.intrepidtravel.com/
 
 In Firefox. Scroll to the bottom of the page and click on one of the
country
 links, you'll notice that just after the click the content of that area
 jumps down. I thought it might have been something to do with
line-heights
 set on the links active state but the link clicked can cause an entirely
 different line in the same area to jump down. Plus I haven't explicitly
set
 any styles on active links anywhere in the CSS.

Hi, Samuel,

Beginner here trying to troubleshoot quite an advanced (and very nice) 
website.

Try adding:

 a { outline: none;}

This disables the outline box surrounding links, that appears in 
Firefox, which is very useful, accessibility wise. Remove at your own 
risk. You can duplicate this by using the keyboard to navigate through 
the links - the box essentially shows up on :focus.

I hope this helps,
Regards,
  - Rahul.


-- 

Rahul Gonsalves (Personal)
w: www.rahulgonsalves.com
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: [WSG] Site check: lot's of space where there shouldn't be any

2006-09-21 Thread Taco Fleur
Thanks guys, that fixed it... Although I don't understand the physics of it
;-)

Yes, we still need to preload the images. Thanks for the reminder 


Kind regards,
Taco Fleur 

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 Good morning all,
  
 We have a page that is displaying an enormous amount of white where 
 there shouldn't be any. I validated the page
 http://development.yellaterra.com.au:92/products/car-performance/produ
 ct-detail/index.cfm?productCategoryIdentity=2modelIdentity=2
 http://development.yellaterra.com.au:92/products/car-performance/prod
 uct-detail/index.cfm?productCategoryIdentity=2modelIdentity=2 and it's
fine.
  
 In Firefox however there is about 250px space between the Make: 
 *British Leyland* Model: *A Series* and the header Cylinder 
 Heads, I was wondering if anyone knew what is causing that? There are 
 a few more issues on this page, but I'll stick with asking for help on 
 the space for now.
 Thanks in advance for any help.

Taco,

It looks like a clear:right issue on your content there.  It's simply
dropping below the right menu.  Try enlarging/shrinking the text and you'll
see it move along with the height of the menu.

The div above the heading where the trouble begins seems to behave, so you
may want to consider moving your content either into that div or nesting
everything into a div that handles the whole main column.

I also noticed that your rollovers are being bad - disappearing on rollover
until everything loads (IE7 and Firefox).  I'm guessing your switching
images instead of changing background positions on one image - bad Taco!





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