Re: [WSG] Problem with Navigation in IE 6

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Carolyn Diaz wrote:

Thanks so much! I should have seen that right off. Isn't that also known as
the Holly hack or some such thing?


That's right...

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Re: [WSG] Rewriting site - help, please.

[David Hucklesby]

Andrew Maben wrote:

> I'm rewriting my site in what I hope is the 'right' way - semantic, 
> standards-compliant, accessible.

[...]

> Any help with that (and any other comments) would be much appreciated:
 (just the index page, any deeper and you'll find 
PHP errors)

luiz gustavo aleagi nunes replied in part:
>
> Another tip, try to code your HTML with XHTML 1.1 Strict. It's a lot easier 
> to reache
> accessibility standards because it is very hard and demand semantics all the 
> time.
>
I think you mean XHTML 1.0 Strict, no? XHTML 1.1 is not for documents
sent as HTML. As the World's Favorite Browser won't deal with anything
else for your pages, I suggest you don't use it.

Re: your site, I don't seem to be able to reach it at the moment to help.

Cordially,
David
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Re: [WSG] Layout Problem: Floating Elements with different heights breaks the flow.

[Shlomi Asaf]

Please ignore my last email
the layout i sent is not valid

the one Tee presented to us is the correct one.

A Question:
using the layout above VS. the same layout except the row divs now will
clear the Row. clear:both.
what do you think is the better & correct layout?
a "table" like or a clearing one?

they r both semantic the same, and amount of code elements.

Sol


On 2/23/07, Shlomi Asaf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Ive uploaded a page describing my approach to "table" list design:
http://www.webcssdesign.34sp.com/me/aTableLikeList.htm

i think a List would be a much more semantic way to describe this kind of
layout

UL{
list-style:none;
margin:0;
padding:0;
display:table;
width:80%
}
DIV{
display:table-row;
zoom:1
}
LI{
display:cell;
float:left;
width: 32.9%;
border:1px dotted #000
}




Title
Text


Title
Text


Title
Text


   

Title
Text


Title
Text


Title
Text




i could have used UL to describe each row, but all the LI elements are
brothers so i sepereated them with the non semantic element- DIV.
i placed the unValid property- Zoom for IE6 support. to give the div a
layout. without it the table-row wouldn't had work.

thank you a lot Tee, u helped me a lot!

Solomon

On 2/23/07, Shlomi Asaf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> what do you think suppose to be in tables?
> does a list represent better a list of cloths and there details, ordered
> in a gallery layout?
> does a table represent a tabular data. what is that exactly? only
> numbers or maybe also cloths and there details?
>
>
>
> On 2/23/07, Christian Montoya < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On 2/23/07, Shlomi Asaf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Thanks a Lot Tee
> > > what i don't understand is- you create a table layout, so why not
> > using a
> > > Table if u already has the structure, and even a little more
> > expensive then
> > > table- you have another element- the clearing one.
> >
> > Because using the table wouldn't be semantically correct... it's for
> > things that aren't meant to be put in tables, but making it look like
> > a table would acheive the visual effect you want.
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Christian Montoya
> > christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com
> >
> >
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Re: [WSG] Please Help! Hover not working to trigger display:block in FF

['Scott Swabey']

Cole Kuryakin wrote:

Hello All –


Hi Cole

 > I’ve set one of the li’s as css trigger (via a class name) in order to

show a drop-down menu (a UL) that has a default value of display:none.

Unfortunately, nothing I try will initiate the declaration containing 
the display:block.


You will need to nest the #industry ul within the li you wish it to 
display under to target it with the css:


Industry

Immigration Information
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Questions and Answers



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Re: [WSG] Please Help! Hover not working to trigger display:block in FF

[John Faulds]

The dropdown menu's s'posed to be nested within the  from which it's  
to drop down from - it can't be a completely separate ul.


On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 11:08:30 +1000, Cole Kuryakin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hello All -


I've done this successfully in one previous project, but can't for the  
life

of me understand what I'm doing wrong now.


I've got a UL nav bar with a number of li's.


I've set one of the li's as css trigger (via a class name) in order to  
show

a drop-down menu (a UL) that has a default value of display:none.


Unfortunately, nothing I try will initiate the declaration containing the
display:block.


My CSS and test.html page validates so I don't know where I'm going  
wrong.



Could someone please show me the error of my ways?


To see this live, please go here: http://www.x7m.us/_problems/test.htm  
and
hover over the "Industry" li . of course, you won't see anything happen  
as

this is the crux of my problem.


HTML and CSS copied below for convenience.


Appreciate any and all guidance on how to fix this


Cole


HTML




http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd";>

http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml";>



/>















Home

Industry /*class .test is suppose to be
the trigger*/

Clientele

Partners

Careers

About

Contact






Immigration Information

POEA Regulations

Disciplinary Guidelines

POEA Sample Contract

Questions and Answers












CSS




/* --- Global Properties
--- */


* {

margin: 0;

padding: 0;

border: none;

}


html{

height: 100%;

}


body{

min-width: 770px;

min-height: 101%;

text-align: center;


font-family: Arial, Verdana, Tahoma, Helvetica, Geneva,
sans-serif;

font-weight: normal;

font-size: 100%;


background-color: #000;

color: #000;

}


#wrapper {

position: relative;

width: 770px;

height: 500px;

margin: 0px auto;

text-align: left;

color: inherit;


background-color: #FFF;

}


ul {

list-style: none;

}


/* --- Nav Top
 */


#navTop { /*THIS IS A UL*/

height: 42px;

padding-left: 10px;

padding-top: 3px;

background-color: #00CC00;

}


#navTop li {

display: inline;

border-right: 1px solid white;

padding-top: 12px;

padding-bottom: 24px;

padding-right: 26px;

padding-left: 6px;

font-weight: bold;

font-size: 0.75em;

}


#navTop li.noLeftPadding {

padding-left: 0;

}


/* --- Drop Down Menus
 */


#industry {

position: absolute;

top: 45px;

left: 70px;

display: none;  /*INDUSTRY UL IS HIDDEN BY DEFAULT*/

}


ul#navTop li.test:hover ul#industry { /*I THINK THIS IS THE PROBLEM
AREA*/

display: block;

}


li.test {

cursor: pointer;

}


.menu {

background-color: #FFCC99;

}


.menu li {

padding: 5px 10px;

font-size: 0.75em;

border-bottom: 1px solid black;

}






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[WSG] Please Help! Hover not working to trigger display:block in FF

[Cole Kuryakin]

Hello All -

 

I've done this successfully in one previous project, but can't for the life
of me understand what I'm doing wrong now.

 

I've got a UL nav bar with a number of li's.

 

I've set one of the li's as css trigger (via a class name) in order to show
a drop-down menu (a UL) that has a default value of display:none.

 

Unfortunately, nothing I try will initiate the declaration containing the
display:block.

 

My CSS and test.html page validates so I don't know where I'm going wrong.

 

Could someone please show me the error of my ways?

 

To see this live, please go here: http://www.x7m.us/_problems/test.htm and
hover over the "Industry" li . of course, you won't see anything happen as
this is the crux of my problem.

 

HTML and CSS copied below for convenience.

 

Appreciate any and all guidance on how to fix this

 

Cole

 

HTML



 

http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd";>

http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml";>









 



 



 



Home

Industry /*class .test is suppose to be
the trigger*/

Clientele

Partners

Careers

About

Contact



 



Immigration Information

POEA Regulations

Disciplinary Guidelines

POEA Sample Contract

Questions and Answers



 



 





 

CSS



 

/* --- Global Properties
--- */

 

* {

margin: 0;

padding: 0;

border: none;

} 

 

html{

height: 100%;

}

 

body{

min-width: 770px;

min-height: 101%;  

text-align: center;   

 

font-family: Arial, Verdana, Tahoma, Helvetica, Geneva,
sans-serif;

font-weight: normal;

font-size: 100%;

 

background-color: #000;

color: #000;

}

 

#wrapper {

position: relative;

width: 770px;

height: 500px;

margin: 0px auto;

text-align: left;

color: inherit;



background-color: #FFF;

}

 

ul {

list-style: none;

}

 

/* --- Nav Top
 */

 

#navTop { /*THIS IS A UL*/

height: 42px;

padding-left: 10px;

padding-top: 3px;

background-color: #00CC00;

}

 

#navTop li {

display: inline;

border-right: 1px solid white;

padding-top: 12px;

padding-bottom: 24px;

padding-right: 26px;

padding-left: 6px;

font-weight: bold;

font-size: 0.75em;

}

 

#navTop li.noLeftPadding {

padding-left: 0;

}

 

/* --- Drop Down Menus
 */

 

#industry {

position: absolute;

top: 45px;

left: 70px;

display: none;  /*INDUSTRY UL IS HIDDEN BY DEFAULT*/

}

 

ul#navTop li.test:hover ul#industry { /*I THINK THIS IS THE PROBLEM
AREA*/

display: block;

}

 

li.test {

cursor: pointer;

}

 

.menu {

background-color: #FFCC99;

}

 

.menu li {

padding: 5px 10px;

font-size: 0.75em;

border-bottom: 1px solid black;

}

 

 

 



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Re: [WSG] Problem with Navigation in IE 6

[Carolyn Diaz]

Thanks so much! I should have seen that right off. Isn't that also known as
the Holly hack or some such thing?

On 2/23/07, Gunlaug Sørtun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Carolyn Diaz wrote:
> http://netprojx.com/STU/facts.htm.
>
> The problem is the left navigation in IE 6. The sub elements or 2nd
> level of
> the navigation loses its background, sometimes the color, sometimes the
> image...in other words, extremely buggy behavior!

Add...
li {height: 1%;}
...or another suitable 'hasLayout'[1] trigger, to those list-items.

That's one IE/win bug that is fixed in IE7.

regards
   Georg

[1]http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html
--
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Re: [WSG] Problem with Navigation in IE 6

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Carolyn Diaz wrote:

http://netprojx.com/STU/facts.htm.

The problem is the left navigation in IE 6. The sub elements or 2nd 
level of

the navigation loses its background, sometimes the color, sometimes the
image...in other words, extremely buggy behavior!


Add...
li {height: 1%;}
...or another suitable 'hasLayout'[1] trigger, to those list-items.

That's one IE/win bug that is fixed in IE7.

regards
Georg

[1]http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html
--
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[WSG] Problem with Navigation in IE 6

[Carolyn Diaz]

I inherited a problem with a site. You may see an example of the problem at
http://netprojx.com/STU/facts.htm.

The problem is the left navigation in IE 6. The sub elements or 2nd level of
the navigation loses its background, sometimes the color, sometimes the
image...in other words, extremely buggy behavior!

Could someone please hlep me with this? It displays "normal" behavior in
Firefox and IE 7.

The style sheet is at http://netprojx.com/STU/styles/main.css.

Links don't work as this is just an example.

Thanks in advance.

Carolyn


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Re: [WSG] with web standards

[TuteC]

And the link is...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gmP4nk0EOE

It's been sent, anyway.
Best regards;
Eugenio Costa.

On 2/23/07, Rolf SF <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Someone just sent me this youtube link, titled "The machine is us/ing
us" - it's actually a celebration of web standards in a sense, so I
thought I'd pass it on. For those that prefer to separate fun from
work, in addition to separating content from presentation, you could
save it for later ;-)

Rolf



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[WSG] with web standards

[Rolf SF]

Someone just sent me this youtube link, titled "The machine is us/ing  
us" - it's actually a celebration of web standards in a sense, so I  
thought I'd pass it on. For those that prefer to separate fun from  
work, in addition to separating content from presentation, you could  
save it for later ;-)


Rolf


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Re: [WSG] alternative to target="_blank" in xhtml 1.1

[L. Robinson]

*/"Gallagher, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:

Users of the search engine on my intranet site wold like to have the
results open in a new page. Can anyone suggest a valid method to do
this in xhtml 1.1?


http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200603/the_target_attribute_and_opening_new_windows/

http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200610/opening_new_windows_with_javascript_version_12/

lr


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Re: [WSG] alternative to target="_blank" in xhtml 1.1

[Minh D. Tran]

Hi Robin,

Another way to open a new window is

http://www.anotherlink.com";
 onclick="window.open(this); return false;" title="Sample Link">

Let me know if this works.

Minh Tran



"Gallagher, Robin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: sec: u alternative to 
target="_blank" in xhtml 1.1 Users of the search engine on my intranet site 
wold like to have the results open in a new page. Can anyone suggest a valid 
method to do this in xhtml 1.1?
  Thanks 
  Robin Gallagher  
DSTO Intranet & Internet Manager  
(03) 9626 7386 
 
 
  
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-
The fish are biting.
 Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.

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Re: [WSG] Internationalization for hindi (data getting corrupted while sendng from jsp to action)

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 23 Feb 2007, at 06:55:01, Nisha Kumari wrote:


Hi

I have done all following changes in my jsp page. I am using struts  
and

even have saved my Hindi text in a application recourse file and have
save that file in a UTF-8 encoding format.

I can see in browser the encoding is getting set to UTF-8 because  
of the

jsp tag (<[EMAIL PROTECTED] encoding="UTF-8"
contentType="text/html;charset=UTF-8"%>).

But still its showing me something other than Hindi (may be garbag). I
tried commenting out the page encoding from jsp page and then I
explicitly changed the page encoding from browser then the text  
appears

perfectly in Hindi.

What could be the reason?


As manually changing the encoding in the browser shows the Hindi  
correctly, you are obviously sending the correct data, so that's not  
the problem.


When the browser attempts to identify the character set of the  
document, it looks first for a Content-Type HTTP header, and only if  
that isn't found does it look for a  element specifying the  
character set - see [1]. I don't know Struts, but a look at the JSP  
documentation suggests that you should be using "pageEncoding"  
instead of "encoding" in your @page directive. [2] I don't know if  
this affects the Content-Type header, or just creates a   
element, though.


If changing that doesn't work, then I would suggest looking at the  
raw HTTP headers for your page, to see if the Content-Type header is  
correctly specifying UTF-8. If you use Firefox, there are various  
ways to do this via extensions such as Firebug, although going to  
Tools menu->Page Info may tell you what you need to know. Assuming  
you're using Microsoft Windows, a free application called Fiddler,  
written by a chap at Microsoft, will allow you to examine the raw  
HTTP traffic between your browser and your server [3]. If it turns  
out that the Content-Type header in the HTTP response is overriding  
any Meta element in the document, then you need to change your server  
configuration; at that point, my lack of knowledge of your  
configuration leaves me unable to help any further :-(


[1] 
[2] 

[3] 

HTH,

Nick.
--
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http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/





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Re: [WSG] layout - choices?

[Matthew Pennell]

On 2/22/07, Designer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


So, my (genuine) question is, is this really so wrong?  So long as it's
kept really simple, which way is easier to read in a screen reader?
(Include the floated and hacked to death standards version as a third
alternative too).

It seems to me that pragmatism can sometimes outbenefit the religion of
standards - and I'd really like some real world feedback on when such a
table approach causes real problems.   (Yes, I know it's not truly
semantic, and I agree that it's a problem because of that).



The one killer thing that CSS allows you to do, but layout tables don't (and
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet) is that you can rewrite your CSS
to display the contents of the page in a completely different place without
touching the underlying markup  - and this is NOT possible when using a
table.

So, for example, you have used a single layout table to create a 3-column
layout, and built your 10,000 page site using that method. The day before
launch, the CEO decides that the left and right sidebars should be swapped
over; even with a CMS, you probably have dozens of template files to edit
and re-arrange - at worst, you have to edit 10,000 individual files! If
you'd used a pure CSS solution, the only change you have to make is in your
layout.css file. This is the key benefit of the separation of presentation
and content, and why you should avoid using tables for layout.

It is also relevant when you consider using alternative stylesheets, zoom
layouts, user-defined settings, etc. Look at www.adactio.com/journal and try
out the alternative styles - it would have been impossible to do this if he
was using a table (even a simple one) for layout.

Matthew.


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Re: [WSG] layout - choices?

[Designer]

Martin Heiden wrote:

Bob,

on Friday, February 23, 2007 at 12:19 wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote:




content
different content




This can then be CSS'd of course, in the normal way.



The important point though, is that the number of cells in a grid should
be restricted to an agreed number (4?) AND most importantly, they cannot
be nested!  This would provide a solution to the often cumbersome markup
required to produce equal height columns, It would stop 'nestingitis' 
and - it would be semantic!  It isn't really presentational either, any

more than  is . . .


I don't think that grid nor gridcell are semantic. In fact it doesn't
say anything about semantics just about presentation. It is an much
cleaner approach to set a div to display: table/table-cell (but the
wording should be changed to grid or something like that...) The div
doesn't imply any semantics either, just structure, but that is what
is needed in this case.

regards

  Martin



Yeah, that'd do fine. (I told you I was making it up as I went along . . 
. :-))



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www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk



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Re: [WSG] layout - choices?

[Designer]

Rimantas Liubertas wrote:

One of the (many) things I wish for is a  tag.   Something along
the lines of the following (made up as I go along, so don't nitpick too
much :-)):


content
different content


This can then be CSS'd of course, in the normal way.

<...>

(I can dream, can't I? :-))



http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-layout/


Regards,
Rimantas
--
http://rimantas.com/


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Roll on!  (thanks)

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Re: [WSG] layout - choices?

[Rimantas Liubertas]

One of the (many) things I wish for is a  tag.   Something along
the lines of the following (made up as I go along, so don't nitpick too
much :-)):


content
different content


This can then be CSS'd of course, in the normal way.

<...>

(I can dream, can't I? :-))



http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-layout/


Regards,
Rimantas
--
http://rimantas.com/


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Re: [WSG] layout - choices?

[Martin Heiden]

Bob,

on Friday, February 23, 2007 at 12:19 wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote:


> 
> content
> different content
> 

> This can then be CSS'd of course, in the normal way.

> The important point though, is that the number of cells in a grid should
> be restricted to an agreed number (4?) AND most importantly, they cannot
> be nested!  This would provide a solution to the often cumbersome markup
> required to produce equal height columns, It would stop 'nestingitis' 
> and - it would be semantic!  It isn't really presentational either, any
> more than  is . . .

I don't think that grid nor gridcell are semantic. In fact it doesn't
say anything about semantics just about presentation. It is an much
cleaner approach to set a div to display: table/table-cell (but the
wording should be changed to grid or something like that...) The div
doesn't imply any semantics either, just structure, but that is what
is needed in this case.

regards

  Martin

 





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Re: [WSG] layout - choices?

[Designer]

Barney Carroll wrote:



But at the end of the day, {display: table} is just as ridiculous as 
div{display:inline} or span{display:block}. Besides, when I made 
table-based designs I often found myself nesting tables within tables, 
and I ended up with horribly deep code (a bit like Google ads, only for 
a reason). With modern CSS we can have table-cells without using table 
bodies or rows or even tables... It makes life a lot simpler.



Regards,
Barney



One of the (many) things I wish for is a  tag.   Something along 
the lines of the following (made up as I go along, so don't nitpick too 
much :-)):



content
different content


This can then be CSS'd of course, in the normal way.

The important point though, is that the number of cells in a grid should 
be restricted to an agreed number (4?) AND most importantly, they cannot 
be nested!  This would provide a solution to the often cumbersome markup 
required to produce equal height columns, It would stop 'nestingitis' 
and - it would be semantic!  It isn't really presentational either, any 
more than  is . . .


(I can dream, can't I? :-))

--
Bob

www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk



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Re: [WSG] layout - choices?

[Barney Carroll]

TuteC wrote:

and a screen reader can read the contents.


Eugenio, screen readers have no problem with tables. What you are 
talking about is a myth.


Bob, remember that tables have all sorts of properties that are not down 
to style. For instance, there is the artificial (in that it isn't nested 
in the markup) grouping of columns, descriptive headings with clear 
reference, etc.


But at the end of the day, {display: table} is just as ridiculous as 
div{display:inline} or span{display:block}. Besides, when I made 
table-based designs I often found myself nesting tables within tables, 
and I ended up with horribly deep code (a bit like Google ads, only for 
a reason). With modern CSS we can have table-cells without using table 
bodies or rows or even tables... It makes life a lot simpler.



Regards,
Barney


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Re: [WSG] Layout Problem: Floating Elements with different heights breaks the flow.

[Shlomi Asaf]

Ive uploaded a page describing my approach to "table" list design:
http://www.webcssdesign.34sp.com/me/aTableLikeList.htm

i think a List would be a much more semantic way to describe this kind of
layout

UL{
   list-style:none;
   margin:0;
   padding:0;
   display:table;
   width:80%
}
DIV{
   display:table-row;
   zoom:1
}
LI{
   display:cell;
   float:left;
   width:32.9%;
   border:1px dotted #000
}


   
   
   Title
   Text
   
   
   Title
   Text
   
   
   Title
   Text
   
   
  
   
   Title
   Text
   
   
   Title
   Text
   
   
   Title
   Text
   
   


i could have used UL to describe each row, but all the LI elements are
brothers so i sepereated them with the non semantic element- DIV.
i placed the unValid property- Zoom for IE6 support. to give the div a
layout. without it the table-row wouldn't had work.

thank you a lot Tee, u helped me a lot!

Solomon

On 2/23/07, Shlomi Asaf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


what do you think suppose to be in tables?
does a list represent better a list of cloths and there details, ordered
in a gallery layout?
does a table represent a tabular data. what is that exactly? only numbers
or maybe also cloths and there details?



On 2/23/07, Christian Montoya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 2/23/07, Shlomi Asaf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Thanks a Lot Tee
> > what i don't understand is- you create a table layout, so why not
> using a
> > Table if u already has the structure, and even a little more expensive
> then
> > table- you have another element- the clearing one.
>
> Because using the table wouldn't be semantically correct... it's for
> things that aren't meant to be put in tables, but making it look like
> a table would acheive the visual effect you want.
>
> --
> --
> Christian Montoya
> christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com
>
>
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--
www.webcssdesign.34sp.com
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--
www.webcssdesign.34sp.com


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Re: [WSG] alternative to target="_blank" in xhtml 1.1

[Thierry Koblentz]

Gallagher, Robin wrote:
> Users of the search engine on my intranet site wold like to have the
> results open in a new page. Can anyone suggest a valid method to do
> this in xhtml 1.1?

This solution requires no extra markup:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/popup_window_with_no_extra_markup.asp

HTH,
---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com


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Re: [WSG] Layout Problem: Floating Elements with different heights breaks the flow.

[Shlomi Asaf]

what do you think suppose to be in tables?
does a list represent better a list of cloths and there details, ordered in
a gallery layout?
does a table represent a tabular data. what is that exactly? only numbers or
maybe also cloths and there details?



On 2/23/07, Christian Montoya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On 2/23/07, Shlomi Asaf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks a Lot Tee
> what i don't understand is- you create a table layout, so why not using
a
> Table if u already has the structure, and even a little more expensive
then
> table- you have another element- the clearing one.

Because using the table wouldn't be semantically correct... it's for
things that aren't meant to be put in tables, but making it look like
a table would acheive the visual effect you want.

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.net .. designtocss.com


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--
www.webcssdesign.34sp.com


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