Re: [WSG] programmmer said: difination list not a standard practise
Tee G. Peng wrote: Client came back that the member profile markup was replaced because her client's programmer said dl is not standard practise. She also questioned my choice of the new markup with definition list again, she said she can't submit it to her client therefor needs an explanation from me so that she can bring it with her to the meeting. Alright Tee, Definition lists are pretty cool but is it standard practice to have multiple dds ? That might be what they were getting at. You can nest almost anything inside a dd so that might be another solution. Do you know what the scripts will be doing with the markup e.g. resizing, hiding, doing backflips etc..? Divs are more stable for playing with css properties so that might be why. Annoying as it may be. Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] programmmer said: difination list not a standard practise
Christian Montoya wrote: On 10/11/06, Rob O'Rourke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tee G. Peng wrote: Client came back that the member profile markup was replaced because her client's programmer said dl is not standard practise. She also questioned my choice of the new markup with definition list again, she said she can't submit it to her client therefor needs an explanation from me so that she can bring it with her to the meeting. Alright Tee, Definition lists are pretty cool but is it standard practice to have multiple dds ? Yes. Cool Divs are more stable for playing with css properties so that might be why. Playing with CSS properties always works regardless of the tag, as long as it is a block by default in this case. Well yeah but its never that straightforward though, I've been messing with dls inside forms recently and there are loads of IE quirks and cross browser differences even before adding any scripts. I'm just offering suggestions as to why the programmer might have said its not standard. I don't think its right to make a judgement about their html abilities without more info from Tee. Take it easy, Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] programmmer said: difination list not a standard practise
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Rob O'Rourke wrote: Well yeah but its never that straightforward though, I've been messing with dls inside forms recently and there are loads of IE quirks and cross browser differences even before adding any scripts. Strange, I've never had issues like that with DLs...unless some bits of CSS got lost in the leaky internet tubes. Do you have any more info on this? Patrick I do indeed, its a combination of lost CSS (the tubes round here are FULL of holes) and too much CSS dependency going on (bad habit of mine). The problems were with a liquid form layout I was doing for a new cms with tooltips floated left and the labels and form controls in regular flow inside the dd's. Plus nearly everything had % widths which doesn't make things any easier for IE. Anyway, fluid stuff and floats can cause some issues if the CSS is not specific enough but quirksmode sorted it all out in the end. Rob (random css department) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] can the legend include block level elements
Mel wrote: on 13/10/2006 19:29 Rob O'Rourke said the following: I thought the legend tag was supposed to offer some effects for screen readers when reading out the form controls. Out of curiosity do you know which screen reader it is? JAWS? I've come across some evidence that suggest that, when in Forms Mode, JAWS will only read text enclosed in form controls. Assuming that JAWS correctly identifies legend as a bona fide form control, it should render the legend before reading out the inputs. Text within the form tags that aren't enclosed in form controls, however, may be missed. I'm currently trying to find out if this is still the case with the latest version of JAWS and whether it's an issue with other screen readers. If it is, it impacts on additional text/instructions that might accompany specific inputs. JAWS isn't all that good if thats the case... I'm interested in hearing what you find out, i tried installing JAWS once but it broke everything so I've not dared since. If I we're you I'd just give the legends an accesskey, then you have navigation across more of browser land. How do you communicate the approprate accesskey to the user? My own research amongst keyboard navigators suggest that very few, if any, will bother to 'learn' accesskeys associated with a specific site. After all, would you? If people don't already 'know' the relevant accesskey, its usefulness becomes debatable. Mel Fair point but it depends on a lot of things, if the form is used regularly like a login or cms backend or shopping basket then accesskeys couldn't hurt, although it would require some preamble text to let the user what they are. If Personally if I really needed them I'd learn them but even if the user can't be bothered learning them it couldn't hurt to have them in there whether its on a legend or not. Interesting topic this one. Take it easy, Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] remove links to self the easy way
Anders Nawroth wrote:
Terrence Wood skrev:
Here's the easy fix: just remove the href attribute. An anchor
element sans ANY attribute is perfectly acceptable HTML[3]. It
inherits CSS as expected and doesn't appear in any link collection.
I've found that IE has problems when applying CSS to an anchor tag that
has no href. It depends on whether you style the anchor on it's own ie.
a { } or as a:link { ... } in the CSS, I think this method requires
the former selector.
I use this a lot.
Still one problem:
Sometimes it is confusing, not beeing able to tab into the menu item.
(Like in a tree menu, where the current item is a folder in the menu.)
In that case I set the href to javascript:; and use a class or id to
style it.
(actually, I do this with client-side scripting, and have no href
attribute in the markup)
/AndersN
I also find that instead of removing the anchor tag altogether,
replacing it with another tag like strong or em provides the
necessary CSS hook to keep the menu nice. The difference is also visible
without extra CSS if its a plain list.
My two pence,
Rob
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Re: [WSG] Correct markup for a chat board?
morten fjellman wrote: Hi list, I'm marking up a chat board, and I'm wondering how I should tag the actual message? The message would typically be: NickName says: Ain't this cool? I was thinking a DL, like this: dl dtNickName says:/dt ddAin't this cool?/dd /dl Am I way off here? Kind regards Morten Looks good to me, you could then do the skype style thing where if NickName types two messages in a row you'd just write out another dd. I prefer that to other IM programs. For marking up the relationship between name and message(s) I couldn't think of a more suitable structure offered by HTML. Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Correct markup for a chat board?
James Crooke wrote: *frowns* Using dl for marking up dialogue is generally frowned upon because dl is widely considered to be for marking up definitions. Tantek has provided a more semantic example of in a old presentation of his. See XHTML Compound: Conversation. http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/#slide22 http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/#slide22 You should probly take Tantek's advice there Lachlan =] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Correct markup for a chat board?
Lachlan Hunt wrote: Rob O'Rourke wrote: Lachlan Hunt wrote: Using dl for marking up dialogue is generally frowned upon because dl is widely considered to be for marking up definitions. Tantek has provided a more semantic example of in a old presentation of his. See XHTML Compound: Conversation. http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/#slide22 You should probly take Tantek's advice there Lachlan =] Why? What are you referring to? I meant Morten should use Tantek's example, I was getting my wires crossed. Seriously they're all over the place... Anyway my bad, Tantek's method of marking up a chat will blatantly be right on or at least closer to the money is what I meant to say. Sorry for any confusion. Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Rotten Standardistas
Tony Crockford wrote: Christian Montoya wrote: Otherwise I will just have to keep on assuming that these specters don't exist. There are one or two font-size fanatics that will accuse you of not respecting your users if you feel the need to set a font size other than default. does that count? I used to think so till I found out why exactly. Different users may have an unusual default font-size set, if you set anything other than the default font-size *on the body* it means they end up not getting the size they wanted/need. You can set your different font-sizes on the elements within at your leisure. I still don't quite get what the difference is but seeing as font-size on the web is completely arbitrary (or should be) it doesn't make a difference. You have to set font-sizes relative to the users default for your elements anyway. The choice is yours but at least base it on what you know for a fact about every potential visitor in your target audience. Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] page loads in safari and then jumps to the middle
Hello there, I've been putting my CV together but I don't have a mac for testing, a friend of mine who does said that when the page loads up in safari it immediately jumps to where it says 'Web designer and developer'. I'm stumped as to what might be causing it. The page in question is at http://robert.o-rourke.org Anyone run into a similar problem before? I'm planning to make the cut-out thing smaller, I was developing the concept and haven't re-done any graphics yet. Cheers, Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] page loads in safari and then jumps to the middle
Steve Green wrote: I'm running Safari 2.0 and it does jump. However, it does not jump immediately. When you hover over a link the page reloads and this is when it jumps (not always to the same place). The same happens if you press the Tab key after the page loads. It does this even if JavaScript is turned off. Sorry, I have no idea why it's doing it. Thanks for confirming that Steve, I've taken all the javascript out because its kinda pointless in this instance. Can you check if the same happens on this page please?: http://robert.o-rourke.org/undex.php I've removed the anchor link which might have been the reason for it... guess it's a process of elimination from here on. Cheers, Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] page loads in safari and then jumps to the middle
Steve Green wrote: Wow, it's even worse now (or maybe it would have done this before but I never tried it). If I hover the mouse over a link and leave it there, the page continuously reloads and it jumps up and down between the Cocktail Bartender and Web Designer subheadings. It gets slower and slower till the 'beachball of death' appears and I have to force quit the browser. We've seen some weird stuff in our time but nothing quite like this. Steve :$ poop... I don't think on online cv that breaks safari is going to get me very far... I've stripped out the CSS now... any joy? It seems to work ok in swift except it loads up with the high contrast large print css for some reason. Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] page loads in safari and then jumps to the middle
It's now jumping on load to the bit where you have: object style=display:none; data=#robert-orourke class=include type=text/html/object just before h3 class=summary titleWeb Designer and Developer/h3 so it looks like something to do with the object referencing part of the page via a URL hash. As to why you're embedding the page in itself as an object, I really can't guess... HTH, Nick. --Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ =D Nice one Nick, I think you've cracked it Those objects are in there to reference my personal hCard from my experience ones its one of the microformats design patterns, I was just trying to be all fancy-pants clever so I've used hyperlinks instead. Cheers for the help guys, 'preciate it Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] page loads in safari and then jumps to the middle
Steve Green wrote: It seems better but when I hover over a link it still reloads, jumps down to the Cocktail Bartender subheading then up to the Web Designer subheading. At least it doesn't bounce up and down continuously and crash the browser. Steve Is that even with the objects removed? If so I'll take out those links altogether and get on the uF-discuss list about it. Cheers, Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] page loads in safari and then jumps to the middle
Steve Green wrote: No, it's ok now. My last post was before you removed the objects. Steve WooHoo! I was all ready to drown my sorrows in lager but this deserves a martini =] Nice one Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Are we turning the tide?
Dwain Alford wrote: Where I am (Ithaca NY), there's very little CSS-based work; they even teach outdated practices: http://www.christianmontoya.com/2006/11/02/advanced-html/ where i am (winfield, alabama) they still use frames and tables and do it wysiwyg. they know nothing of seo. a new client can't even use the domain name they are paying for because the host who registered the name registered it in his name and won't transfer the name to them. sorry, i stray. when adobe, macromedia and microsoft gave us go live, dreamweaver and front page, they did to web design what george eastman did to photography; everybody became a web designer and a photographer. i haven't been designing with css and xhtml very long (2 years this past summer) and there is much i still have to learn, but when i knew there was a better way and began to learn about standards i jumped on board with both feet. i try to promote standards whenever i can. i try to educate our small client base to the importance of standards and seo. i might even start a group for web designers in this booming metropolis of around 4,000 and see if we can get together and make the web a better place. ok, i'm getting delusional, so i'll stop. in closing, if one designer a day can be brought into the ranks of standards compliant design then there is hope. dwain The only answer is to keep up the good work, I think web standards must be gaining a lot of ground because when I started out learning I was almost immediately directed to the CSS zengarden by a friend. After trolling through tons of everyone else's code and learning by doing I saw the value in it and found the enthusiasm of other standardistas infectious. I'm in the fortunate position of never having learnt any old-hat methods and having potential bad habits drummed out of me by peer review on mailing lists such as this. Hopefully this will be true for more and more new designers and developers in the coming years. The good news is that advocates of web standards will more than likely be at the top of the search engine results these days. That's usually the first place anyone looks for good tutorials/info. Also, just in this past year I've noticed many websites e.g. The University Of Bristol's website have been brought up to speed (only the public facing section so far but it's a start). Sites that don't catch up will eventually fall behind and drop off the radar (fingers crossed). Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] page loads in safari and then jumps to the middle
~davidLaakso wrote: Rob O'Rourke wrote: ~davidLaakso wrote: And perhaps a little contemplation about the questions you did not ask with regard to that page...? I wanted to think about other things for a while... I'd love to hear any suggestions as to where I could improve it. I honestly don't know what other questions to ask, I've had no other criticism bar the Safari issue so far. No criticism here. Just some light entertainment and food for thought: -- If it can be said a page exists for a reason, just what is the reason your page exists? Woops forgot to change the email address to the list. It's a fair comment, but I'm currently looking for work in the Liverpool/Manchester area (UK), hopefully it'll get me some interviews... Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] page loads in safari and then jumps to the middle
snip Sorry everyone, went OT there. That last reply to my thread wasn't meant to go to the list. Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] how to retain equal height without losing layout integrity when user resizes font size
Tee G. Peng wrote:
Hi, I am doing a layout that requires equal height for each column and
row, however the contents inside of each column and row are different
and in some pages, in certain sections, the length of the content will
be decided by end users' data feed. Each column, each row has its own
background color (gradient image). I don't want to set 'height'
attribute; I maybe able to play with pixel perfect with precise
calculation to obtain equal height but when a user resize font size,
the integrity will be lost.
Here is a mockup screen shot, client got everything precisely line up:
http://project.lotusseedsdesign.com/ss.png
an untidy layout I just did
http://project.lotusseedsdesign.com/ss02.png
my markup is such:
div class=left_colFirst row, first column /div
div class=right_colFirst row, second column /div
div class=left_colsecond row, first column /div
div class=right_colsecond row, second column /div
I was thinking if I insert a wrapper for each row so it looks like so
div class=wrapper
div class=left_colFirst row, first column /div
div class=right_colFirst row, second column /div
/div
div class=wrapper
div class=left_colsecond row, first column /div
div class=right_colsecond row, second column /div
/div
However with different background colors that are controlled by
gradient images, it seems pointless to do so.
Your suggestion deeply appreciated!
Thanks!
tee
Hi Tee,
If those blocks always contain similar output you could float your
blocks left to stack them up and set the height in ems. Seems to me the
easiest way to do a layout like that.
e.g.
div id=container
div class=left id=bookmarks/div
div class=right id=people/div
div class=left id=sites/div
div class=right id=tags/div
/div
and then CSS like:
#container { width: 830px; } /* to leave a 30px gap in the middle e.g.
|400px| 30px |400px| */
.left, .right { height: 60em; width: 400px; margin-bottom: 30px; } /*
whatever your dimensions need to be */
.left { float: left; clear: left; }
.right { float: right; clear: right; }
That way your blocks have equal height and width, will stack as per the
image and you have a nice semantic unique id on each to apply styles
with. Might need some tweaking for cross-browser goodness but in a fixed
width layout that code should be safe to work from.
Hope that gives you some ideas.
Rob O
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Re: [WSG] how to retain equal height without losing layout integrity when user resizes font size
Tee G. Peng wrote: Seems odd that resizing the font would affect the bottom margins. Do you have a demo or screenshot? I'll have a go at getting it to work myself but I think that the table-layout method would be best for forward compatibility. Keep us posted. Rob, was experimenting different methods and I must say, using Georg's method for advanced browsers and height with EM [1] for IE works appear to be the best for my situation (still need refinement for the two buggers though!) I am posting the results for different approaches I have tried. This page is set the height with EM (no content wrapper) for all browsers that you want to see. The height shrink or expand depending on the font size increases /decreases. I thought this is the normal behavior for EM value, not quite understand why you said it shouldn't. http://project.lotusseedsdesign.com/SH-new/with_height.html I meant that I don't know why there would be an undesirable amount of space at the bottom. I've put together a quick example to demonstrate my idea, works in FF, IE6 and Opera. I've placed CSS background-colours on the blocks to avoid that white background showing through and a div at the top with the darker background-colour set in the CSS too. http://www.sanchothefat.com/dev/list-help/tgp.htm That's the kind of thing I was getting at, I'm afraid I don't have time to play with the display: table stuff right now, good luck with it! Finally comes the one with Georg' method http://project.lotusseedsdesign.com/SH-new/georg_method.html in IE 6, the background images for each block are gone, I think it's caused by (overflow:hidden), whereas in IE 7, the vertical scrolling still exist (with overflow:hidden), and the background images are pushed to the very bottom of the page. Georg, please help! Are they pushed to the bottom even when the background-position is set to top? Take it easy, Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] FF understands body:last-child
Barney Carroll wrote:
Anybody know about this?
body:last-child ... {}
I saw this a while back and chuckled, but today I found cause to use
it. It's supposedly a hack for WebKit browsers (I don't understand how
there could be any ambiguity over what the last child of the body
could be, but there you go). I've seen examples of such rules only
being picked up by my Safari, with everything else I've got ignoring
it - however when I applied it myself it was picked up by Safari and
my Firefox.
Any idea why this is?
Regards,
Barney
It's CSS3, there're loads of cool pseudo classes like this coming along
in the future but Firefox supports a few already. I can't remember which
exactly. Have a look at this article, interesting stuff:
http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200601/css_3_selectors_explained/
Rob O
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[WSG] Accessibility of forms, do you always need a label with drop downs?
Hi all, Just a quick question, I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with or has read something about the accessibility of a form that uses the value attribute to convey what the field is for. I'm talking about those forms where there is something already filled in for the field to tell you what it's for. I'm not keen on the practice myself but the case I'm curious about is when using a select drop down box. The search form here http://www.tradeonly.co.uk takes this approach. The site isn't by any means a shining example of accessibility anyway but I'm just interesting in your views on this approach. I was thinking about positioning the labels off-screen as a workaround (much as I don't want to but it's a request from above). Cheers, Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessibility of forms, do you always need a label with drop downs?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We come across this sort of thing a lot during user testing and we find that default text in textboxes and text areas causes loads of problems. However, using the default value of a combobox as the label generally works well and I have never seen it cause any problems. I suppose there could be a minor problem if that field also appears on a subsequent page (such as in a multi-stage transaction) because it will be then set to the value the user selected originally rather than the default value. However, not only is this situation rare, but the user ought to recognise that it is displaying the value they selected. The technique works particularly well when more than one combobox is used for a single piece of data such as date of birth. The use of multiple labels for such fields causes both visual and audible (for screen readers) clutter, in which case it is often preferable to have a single text label for the whole group and use the default combobox values as labels for each field. Steve Green Director Test Partners Ltd / First Accessibility www.testpartners.co.uk www.accessibility.co.uk That's great, thanks Steve and thanks Mike. Every day's a school day... Cheers, Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] The Decline of Print Styles
Jixor - Stephen I wrote: There is a few PHP (and php+perl/etc) things out there that do html to pdf but none of them are quite right. One will find that they need to spend a lot of time tweaking their output and if you are printing with complex floats even add additional markup to compensate for bugs. So thats not quite a good option yet either. Ive been writing print stylesheets and then printing to PDF from the browser (firefox) with PrimoPDF (http://www.primopdf.com) to create pdf files when I or a client needs them, doesn't quite solve the problem but it comes in handy. I think those sites that use a stylesheet-switcher to switch to a printer-friendly version to make the layout and so on simpler, hiding useless/irrelevant objects from the printed page and still maintaining the look and feel of the sites formatting work very well on the whole. If we never use the print css tools people will never catch on and browser support will continue to be flaky. On the topic of weird and wonderful print css glitches never use white-space: pre; with IE6 print css because it's well... you guessed it, it's broken (at least in conjunction with lists that is). Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] containing div not streching
Robin @ Xplore.net wrote: I am having a problem in firefox with my outer div not streching when the inner div content exceeds the template width, the page looks ok in ie7, could anyone enlighten me please. http://gilescadman.com/test_folder/index.htm thanks Robin Sounds like IE7 is incorrectly expanding the height of #main, you can either float #main to contain the two floated columns or set overflow: hidden; on #main to contain them. You may find those images at the bottom have the bottom border going over the top of them aswell, add position: relative; to #images or to the images themselves e.g. #images img and you should be ok... hopefully =] Im not sure how well I explained that, if i've confused you let me know and i'll go into more detail. Have fun, Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Semantics of news
What about h2Title of the article span class=date9-12-2006/span/h2 ? I must admit i'm a bit of a css positioning junkie, I always do stuff like that in my h1s but thats the structure i use for my news articles. Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Semantics of news
Joseph R. B. Taylor wrote: Mike, Thats an interesting point. I always thought that any given dt or dd should hold one piece of information only. If nesting stuff inside them like that is completely legit that certainly opens up a lot of possibilities. Consider this: dl dtimg src=house_photo.jpg //dt dt123 Property Address/dt dd3 Bedrooms | 1.5 Baths/dd dd$150,000/dd ddView Link/dd /dl This is how I've been marking up property lists (single list unit shown), which is where my previous example was coming from. Your example seems to capture the information relationship pretty well thoughh Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote: I'm curious, Joseph, wouldn't that be better like this? h2Our News/h2 dl dt2006-12-09/dt dd h3News Headline/h3 pTeaser statement for the article./p pLink to Full Story/p /dd /dl Assuming of course this would be valid as it would be with any other kind of list (I didn't check). Respectfully, Mike Cherim http://green-beast.com/ Hi, On the topic of using definition lists in this sense I know some people would argue that the examples above aren't semantically accurate. I have seen dls used as a way of organising Name-Value pairs which I've recently implemented on some product detail screens but is an article's *date* defined by its *excerpt*? Wouldn't an ordered list be better? (or unordered, I'm not that fussy =P) eg. ul class=news-articles li div class=date09-12-2006/div h2Article title/h2 pExcerpt here/p a href=full-articleRead the whole thing/a /li /ul Also, why does the date need to come first? And does it really need to be a heading? I'm actually asking because I've thought about it but never really drawn any solid conclusions. Just some thoughts, Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Semantics of news
akella wrote: The date in design - so it's just better for it to go first in code too. Right, thanks. It makes sense and it seems to be the norm on every news related thing I've looked at in the last half hour. So my problem was that i just cant use h3-h2 - considering its not logically correct. As for your structure ul class=news-articles li div class=date09-12-2006/div h2Article title/h2 pExcerpt here/p a href=full-articleRead the whole thing/a /li /ul May be then this would be the best one: small09-12-2006/small h2Article title/h2 pExcerpt here/p Yep, or any variation on that I guess. Ideally there'd be a date tag but lets not go there :-) Cheers, Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Last letter of a line appearing on next row (IE6...)
Hi all, I had the last letter of some floated form elements appearing on the next line. I've managed to get rid of the letter itself with position: relative; on the form input but there's still a 'phantom line' in IE adding a load of 'padding' to the bottom of the label or fieldset. The problem wasn't there when I isolated the 'my details' fieldset however it is apparent when you look at the whole form: http://www.sanchothefat.com/dev/phantom-line.html (CSS is inline) There are some other problems I've noticed when viewing the form in a fluid state, namely with the password fieldset being out of alignment when the page first loads in IE6 and also the shorter post code input can't decide if it's on the form or not. The rendering in Firefox, IE7 and Opera is what I'm after although Opera puts a little bit of space in front of the email and password inputs, I'm guessing it's white-space so not too big a deal. I've tried everything I can think of so far but hopefully it's an easy one to fix... Thanks in advance, Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Last letter of a line appearing on next row (IE6...)
� wrote:
Rob O'Rourke wrote:
I had the last letter of some floated form elements appearing on the
next line. I've managed to get rid of the letter itself with
position: relative; on the form input but there's still a 'phantom
line' in IE adding a load of 'padding' to the bottom of the label or
fieldset.
http://www.sanchothefat.com/dev/phantom-line.html
Have you tried adding...
* html option {display: none;}
...?
That addition improves things in my IE6 (on win2K).
regards
Georg
Nope, I would never have considered that option! (no pun intended) very
bizarre behaviour... but then again it's IE6. Thanks a million Georg.
I found the PIE page i was looking for [1], it was the duplicate
characters bug however none of the triggers mentioned on that page were
present... as far as i could work out anyway. At least the fix mentioned
on the page works, along with overflow: hidden;
* html option { display: none; }
* html label.del-post-code { margin-right: -3px; overflow: hidden; }
* html label.business-type { margin-right: -3px; overflow: hidden; }
This seems to have done the trick but I still can't work out why the
initial page rendering is off sometimes. At least it doesn't appear out
of line in the layout its currently starring in so that's something.
Thanks again Georg,
Rob O
[1] http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/dup-characters.html
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Re: [WSG] Last letter of a line appearing on next row (IE6...)
Nick Fitzsimons wrote: On 13 Dec 2006, at 19:39:17, Rob O'Rourke wrote: I found the PIE page i was looking for [1], it was the duplicate characters bug however none of the triggers mentioned on that page were present... as far as i could work out anyway. [1] http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/dup-characters.html It's probably your input type=hiddens; they're mentioned as triggering the bug in the paragraph beginning Update! July 5, 2004 about halfway down the page. Regards, Nick. --Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ Hi Nick, Thats just it, there are no input type=hiddens or any none displayed elements in the places it says are the trigger points e.g. between floats. I read the whole PIE page but it describes the cure and not the symptom in this case. Unless of course you want to generalise and describe the symptom as IE6 =P I need to get control of what hasLayout and what doesn't before I can work out what's really going on. Thanks, Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Last letter of a line appearing on next row (IE6...)
Nick Fitzsimons wrote: On 13 Dec 2006, at 22:18:42, Rob O'Rourke wrote: I need to get control of what hasLayout and what doesn't before I can work out what's really going on. Use Microsoft's IE Developer Toolbar's DOM Inspector: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=e59c3964-672d-4511-bb3e-2d5e1db91038displaylang=en It will allow you to walk through the DOM tree for your page; hasLayout will show up in the Styles pane for all elements having that most peculiar property. HTH, Nick. --Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ I like it, thanks! I need to turn google toolbar off to use it though, tried outlining inputs and it crashed my PC. It doesn't surprise me in the least though... I'm getting a mac for christmas =] Cheers Nick Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] ainput//a - how wrong?
Barney Carroll wrote:
...snip...
Update:
Couldn't get csshover.htc to work - dumped it in with my stylesheets
and called it via body{behavior:url(stylesheets/csshover.htc)} but it
wouldn't have any effect... May turn out to be a stupid oversight...
...snip...
Regards,
Barney
Hi Barney,
I knew there was something not quite straightforward about the htc,
forgot to add this link. It may be to do with your hosting provider, if
you can get in touch and confirm the mimetype they deliver htcs with is
set to text/x-component it should work. If thats not the issue send us a
link or test page.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306231
Rob
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Re: [WSG] my world, my country.. :(
Hassan Schroeder wrote: Steve Green wrote: We do a lot of user testing with screen reader users,... Also Flash movies are made in layers. Have you tested any (non-timelined) Flex-based sites or apps? Just my two pence but I think what you really need to do is add an audio layer to that flash site. As an example one of the sites we host (its not at all accessible code-wise) has audio to say hello and indicate what you can do on a page. I think similar use of audio on that site to read it from the flash would be a nice touch. Then it'd be accessible to blind users who don't have a screenreader too (...they must exist) Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] my world, my country.. :(
Steve Green wrote: Audio opens up a new can of worms. It certainly should not start automatically because that causes problems for several user groups, not just those with disabilities. It could benefit some users but you shouldn't implement it in a way that is to the detriment of others. Some blind people use Braille displays rather than screen readers but this is not common. I don't see the benefit of adding audio unless the Flash content is 100% accessible, in which case it ought not to be necessary. Navigating with a screen reader or Braille device is a lot slower than using a graphical browser, so users don't want to spend time doing anything that isn't really necessary. Steve Hi Steve, To be honest I'd not thought about the problems audio in flash could cause further than interfering with whatever music i've got on in the background =$ I'd like to find out more about it because I've just made an audio blog for my brother, can you point me to any resources or articles that discuss the topic? Rob PS. Its just clicked, will a screen reader play the audio and try and read text at the same time? I can imagine that would get a bit cacophonous (my big word for the day). *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Use of audio in Flash and on web pages in general - FROM: my world, my country.. :(
Matthew Smith wrote: Quoth (haha) Rob O'Rourke at 01/11/07 03:57... Just my two pence but I think what you really need to do is add an audio layer to that flash site. As an example one of the sites we host (its not at all accessible code-wise) has audio to say hello and indicate what you can do on a page. I think similar use of audio on that site to read it from the flash would be a nice touch. Then it'd be accessible to blind users who don't have a screenreader too (...they must exist) Unanticipated sound can cause issues. I have problems with Web content that a) makes noises without asking and/or b) has movement without asking.* Please don't do this, unless it is by activation of a 'play audio' control. Cheers M * Presentation: The Forgotten Difficulties - Fatigue and the Web http://www.smiffysplace.com/ozewai2006/ Cheers Steve and Matthew, I've created a new topic because its not related to the previous topic any more. I can see the issue with this, I've removed the autostart I had on the flash player, the nice thing is I can add javascript controls to the page (I've already got a cookie that remembers the players current state when you navigate to another page/elsewhere). I have a div with skip-to links positioned off page, do you think it would be enough to add a header that says mp3 player controls and then list them there? I've tried it anyway, i would appreciate your (everyones) thoughts on the accessibility of this approach. The site is http://brendan.o-rourke.org, not much on there content wise yet because i still have to show him how to use textpattern =P Cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] my world, my country.. :(
Jermayn Parker wrote: The thing that gets me with this discussion is why create all these features to cover up the problem? If you created it in XHTML/ php etc and not flash, you would not have these problems and then you would not have to spend extra time fixing the problems that has been caused by using flash. My apologies for confusing the issue at hand: Mihael only has a single splash page with flash. The rest is a heavily table-based layout using frames, a slightly bigger problem I think (despite not being able to navigate to the rest of the site without flash as was pointed out). Mihael, have a look at the CSS-Discuss wiki for some good articles about creating layouts like yours using CSS: http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssLayouts In particular there are some ready made three column layouts that might be useful. Also when/if you do update the site make use of the w3c validators to check your code: http://validator.w3.org/ - for html http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ - for css Just ask if you get stuck. Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] my world, my country.. :(
Mihael Zadravec wrote: Oh boy..! Ok..!. :D I am not the author of that page. It was just a bad examle of Blind people community website :D But hey!..thanks for links anyway! cya! Mihael Haha! sorry Mihael I thought it was your site and you were asking for comments! d'oh and yes, it is very sad.. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] 3 questions: flash, aimg and Ad Sense
Elle Meredith wrote:
Hey,
Just got 3 questions that are actually on 3 separate subjects:
1. I have a flash slide show in a page header and the page's logo is
positioned absolutely with higher z-index on top of the flash object
but only some of the logo is on top of the flash slideshow. Every time
a new image loads up in the flash movie, it hides part of the logo. If
you hover on the logo, it comes back up till the next image loads.
Would you know why this happens?
Nick answered that, Flash is an activeX object in windows IE so like
comboboxes it is rendered above everything else.
2. Situation is:
I declare a general rule that says that all my links will have
border-bottom of some kind or background color when hovering on them.
Then I have an image that is also a link.
Even though I declare: a img {border-bottom: 0; background-color:
none;}, it doesn't have any effect and I still get a border-bottom or
can see background color on hover where I have padding around the image.
Why wouldn't it accept my second rule?
It has accepted it it's just that the rules you specified for the anchor
tags themselves aren't the same as the rules you've specified for the
images within the anchor tags. You could add a class to the anchor that
contains the image to differentiate it like so:
a.img { border-bottom: 0; background-color: none; }
3. I recently added Google AdSense to my validated pages and it caused
errors on my page.
Is there anything I could do to still have pages that validate as
XHTML strict?
You could put the ads in an iframe... not ideal. Google don't do good
markup or valid anything really, you would probably be better off with
xhtml friendly text link ads:
http://www.text-link-ads.com
Much appreciated any help,
Elle
http://waznelle.com
All the best,
Rob O
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Re: [WSG] Logo and H1's
Christian Montoya wrote: On 1/12/07, Marcio Werneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello ! I have a doubt regarding putting the logo in an H tag. Wrapping the website logo in an H1, is a good practice? - always? I have done the following with multiple sites: h1img src=logo alt=site title/h1 And have never seen any issues with regards to SEO. As for semantics, if you think about it, the title of the site is in the title tag (you know, in the head), so having a duplicate of that in the h1 tag really isn't that useful. If you can go with just using a div for the logo and making the h1 the title of the current page rather than the title of the site, that's a much better option. I do this sort of thing too, I usually place both the logo and the site title in an h2 in the page header and then the page title in an h1 associated with the content, depends on the layout and what people are likely to be searching for. If its a small site and your page titles are things like 'About Us' (and other favourites) then SEO wise you are better off putting the site name/company name in the h1. If it's a blog then you want the article titles in the h1 and nice readable url. Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Logo and H1's
Mihael Zadravec wrote: On 1/12/07, *Mihael Zadravec* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/12/07, *Rob O'Rourke* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christian Montoya wrote: On 1/12/07, Marcio Werneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello ! I have a doubt regarding putting the logo in an H tag. Wrapping the website logo in an H1, is a good practice? - always? I have done the following with multiple sites: h1img src=logo alt=site title/h1 And have never seen any issues with regards to SEO. As for semantics, if you think about it, the title of the site is in the title tag (you know, in the head), so having a duplicate of that in the h1 tag really isn't that useful. If you can go with just using a div for the logo and making the h1 the title of the current page rather than the title of the site, that's a much better option. I do this sort of thing too, I usually place both the logo and the site title in an h2 in the page header and then the page title in an h1 associated with the content, depends on the layout and what people are likely to be searching for. If its a small site and your page titles are things like 'About Us' (and other favourites) then SEO wise you are better off putting the site name/company name in the h1. If it's a blog then you want the article titles in the h1 and nice readable url. Rob I you'd listen to screen reader... (I use JAWS), you could se the diference in expirience I still claim it is absolutly better, if it's headeing... let it be text. Screen reader otherwise reads it heading one. image graphics. Company logo ... it is much much more nicer if it says heading one. Company name dash online computer store image graphics bla bla... and than you also need to point out with alt text that the image graphic is Somecompanyname logo... I prefer the text in headings. EDIT - ROB, don't get me wrong... When I said If you'd listen to screen reader, I was not pointing at you... It was just a figure of speech and for those who did not listen to screen reader... cya! Mihael No worries Mihael, i think you wanted to say if you have ever listened to a screen reader. When I say I put the logo in a header it's because It's my opinion that it is an important part of the document and should be in the html as with other images that are relevant to the document. A website ideally should be accessible to everyone, sighted or not so I don't code specifically for screen readers nor any user agent. I always try to code a nice, meaningful document. 'Try' is the operative word there, one thing that's clear is that any consensus from these discussions is hard to come by. I've not managed to get a screen-reader working very well for testing so far, does anyone know of one (preferably free) that provides a fairly typical screen reader experience? JAWS is a bit out of my price range. Cheers Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Free Screen Readers
Hi everyone, While we are on the subject I remembered something I came across ages ago and never took the time to get to know how to use it. The site is http://www.webbie.org.uk The page that explains its use is http://www.webbie.org.uk/webbiefordesigners.htm and definitely worth more than a quick scan. I had absolutely no idea about the windows narrator function (windows key + U) which webbie works with to give something like the screen reader experience. Not exact obviously but close enough to provide some insight, and its FREE =] I'm going to evaluate it further this time, see how useful it can be. Happy coding everyone, Rob O *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] [OT] What happend to WebDesign-L?
Carl Reynolds wrote: I apologize for an off topic question. I tried to get an answer from the webstandarsgroup web site first, but got no response. I'm certain I have seen some of the same people here and at the WebDesign-L mailing list so I wanted to find out if any of you have had problems getting mail from that list. I had a subscription to the WebDesign mailing list at http://webdesign-L.com/. Suddenly, a couple months ago, I stopped receiving any mail from the list. I have tried to re-subscribe, with no response. I have tried sending messages to the list-mom at both his list-mom address and his private address. I get a series of responses that my mail can't be delivered. I know that some of the people in the Web Standards Group also participate in discussions at WebDesign-List. I was wondering if any of the rest of you have had a similar problem with that list or was I suddenly banned for some reason I'm not aware of? Does anyone know if the WebDesign-List is still in operation? Thanks for your response, Carl. Fraid not, sounds like an ISP/Hosting issue. They may have blocked the sender because of high traffic thinking its spam. I still receive email from both lists, so it's not the list-serv that's faulty. You might have to brave customer services for this one. Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [SPAM?] Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
Michael MD wrote: ? I just tried sending a fairly complex HTML email that uses tables and is *totally* styled with inline CSS to my gmail account -- and it renders exactly as I'd expect. That might be fine for webmail accounts where you are using a web browser but what about desktop email clients? (yes Outlook/Outlook Express use IE to render html.. but what about others?.. can you be sure everyone's email client can even render tables? maybe I might be seen as old fashioned in this regard... but for email I prefer PLAIN TEXT - at least you can be sure everything can read that!) Quite right, though I think basic html 4 with a couple of inline styles works on the whole. I don't know if its come up yet on the list but things are going to get worse for HTML email... http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/01/10/microsoft-breaks-html-email-rendering-in-outlook/ The crux of it is the rendering engine they are using for Outlook 2007 is MS Word... Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility - my opinion ;)
Milosz A. Lodowski - New Media Designer wrote: Christian in your opinion - those sites are inaccessible... without any argues I cannot agree so that's why I've asked... Accessibility is making a site available and usable to the widest possible audience, on as many user agents as possible. A lot of the sites you've picked are pure flash, while these can be made somewhat accessible (e.g. making the text selectable and perhaps some text resizing options, not playing loud music as soon as I open the site, I don't really know much more about making flash accessible...) the point is these sites will never be as accessible as properly done html/css sites. I couldn't use most of those sites from my mobile phone for example, whereas with html a stylesheet with a media type of 'handheld' could be implemented with no changes to the html. Basically you can only use most of those sites if you can see and are using a mouse. There are lots of levels to accessibility that I'm still plumbing the depths of. In terms of the web usability/accessibility/code/design all need to work together in the right balance because its kind of an omni-media. You can't lump it into any one category other than 'web'. And, like Christian says I'm not sure what you're asking this list for with regards to those sites or your idea... Do you want to discuss web standards and accessibility with regard to those sites? or do you just want to know if we think they're pretty/usable? What is your opinion on web accessibility? Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility - my opinion ;)
Sunday John wrote: Yea, I agree with your comment. Contents that is available through xml for flash improves performance. Also given the user a choice to switch to version of site is good idea to meet end users viewing experience. Like I said, all still boils down to the project goal, target audience and your client. Sunday John Web Developer www.isslng.com True, I'm starting to realise that more and more now as the works piling up =$ Still, at least the world of corporate merchandise e-commerce is a little more accessible now =] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Art and accessibility - my opinion ;)
Christian Montoya wrote: On 2/2/07, Mark Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: miden wrote: Interesting letter on The Register WRT accessiblity: ...it's very hard to see why the tiny amount of forethought website authors could show toward accessibility in the very beginning is so terribly absent. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/02/letters_0202/ And that's really the key point I was trying to make when I started this thread (which, as Russ pointed out, has morphed considerably). Too many 'designers' regard accessibility as something you *do* to your site *after* you've developed its visual glory, with consequent compromises, and text-based alternatives. It should be, instead, a factor that influences your design choices from the beginning, sort of given these parameters, how do we get the effect we want which is a more sensible (and usually cheaper) option. Validate your test models before polishing and you're more than halfway to creating a site that satisfies on both criteria. Now I'm just compelled to mention Faust - Flash AUgmenting STandards. http://blog.space150.com/2007/1/11/faust-flash-augmenting-standards A great example of Faust in practice: http://www.ivyhotel.com/ Thanks for pointing that out Christian, I always loved flash(y) sites before I knew anything about web standards etc... it's nice to know that there are options out there, at least when I have the ability to make something that might be considered arty. Anyone want to lend me a copy of flash 8? =P Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check in IE6 - c7designs.com
Tee G. Peng wrote: The site is face-slapping beautiful for the first 80%, and then I reach the footer and it's like I'm on a different site. Besides the footer text being incredibly tiny, the lack of alignment among the form elements makes it look like you just ignored designing that part of the site. IMO, you should at least use some floats to give it a bit of a grid appearance. Hi Chris, I took another look, I think your layout as a whole lacks unity - you sure can do pretty design, but attention to detail distinguish a good design and a best design IMHO. Christian is right about the footer, apart from the issues he raised - input fields, radio buttons and textarea, and the text is too small , also, the grey isn't a very nice color there. Grey is a very complimenting color, but not in the case in your footer. I sometimes wonder, maybe it is a culture thing, for countless websites I have visited, that Korean and Hungarian designers are maestro of using grey color - they know exactly how, when to give grey to live, call out its emotion, make the layout pop by using blend, gradient, shadow or with other colors. This is very subjective view of me I supposed. The footer gives an impression that you were in a rush to finish the job. As for markup and CSS, improvement needed too. I learned from experience, that structural markup and CSS go hand in hand, you can't be a good CSS coder if you don't understand the use of structural semantical markup. One of the obvious example is the use of classes. In the front page, the two images are not horizontally line up in Opera and Safari. I will use float instead. In your qualification you listed Strong foundation in web standards and accessibility guidelines - I expect to see you site at least pass section 508. tee Hi Chris, Its getting there, one thing you could try to make that form line up a little better is to wrap the form inputs with the associated label and then set 'display: block;' on the labels, this will also allow you use text-align. If you set 'text-align: right;' on the labels aswell it will make them line up nicely on that side, should be good a starting point for you. Use padding/margin as you see fit. I'll make an example tomorrow evening if you're still stuck. Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] RSS feeds
Teresa Carroll wrote: Hello All, I am looking to add RSS feeds to a Web site I am developing. I was wondering if anyone has used a software product that adds the links to a Web site automatically. I would like to hear people's thoughts and experiences before I began creating this part of the project. All the best, Teresa Hello Teresa Are you using a CMS or any server-side scripts at all? It would be useful to know that so we can give you more specific advice. As far as adding the links to the site you only need to add the link to the feed and update the feed as more articles/content/whatever is added. It's a lot easier to do when the information is pulled out of a database. Or do you mean you want the items in the RSS feed to be listed out on the site? Jason - I was wondering, do you use the MagpieRSS PHP to update the site content and use a separate app to write articles in RSS format? That's a nice publishing solution if so, could be done without a database too. Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Article: creating drop cap on the fly
Kevin McMonagle wrote:
I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/the_perfect_drop_cap.asp
Looks good, if you decrease the font size by one or two than the drop cap indent goes way in.
Is there a way to fix that.
-best
kvnmcwbn
Nice work but using drop-caps you have to pay attention to line-height
or you end up with unwanted space underneath the image. The image is
about 57px tall so you want the line-height to be a multiple of that.
Try adding the following to your example page to see the difference it
makes:
p { line-height: 19px; clear: left; }
it might be better to use the em equivalent of 19px though.
Rob
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