Re: [SPAM?] Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
Michael MD wrote: ? I just tried sending a fairly complex HTML email that uses tables and is *totally* styled with inline CSS to my gmail account -- and it renders exactly as I'd expect. That might be fine for webmail accounts where you are using a web browser but what about desktop email clients? (yes Outlook/Outlook Express use IE to render html.. but what about others?.. can you be sure everyone's email client can even render tables? maybe I might be seen as old fashioned in this regard... but for email I prefer PLAIN TEXT - at least you can be sure everything can read that!) Quite right, though I think basic html 4 with a couple of inline styles works on the whole. I don't know if its come up yet on the list but things are going to get worse for HTML email... http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2007/01/10/microsoft-breaks-html-email-rendering-in-outlook/ The crux of it is the rendering engine they are using for Outlook 2007 is MS Word... Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
Drop the border colour, and give the table a background and turn up your cellspacing and set border to 0. table cellpadding=5 cellspacing=2 border=0 background=#cc However, I would strongly suggest CSS for this job. Regards, Svip On 1/30/07, Samuel Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm building an HTML 4 Transitional layout for Firefox using tables. Before you all run screaming or hang me from the gallows I have a reason, the page is being used as an email promotion, web based email readers such as GMail ignore float styles necessitating the use of table based layouts (oh joy! The design is very complicated and the powers above don't want to simplify it) My question is; I'm using the follow to create a 2px wide red border with padding for content table cellpadding=5 cellspacing=0 border=2 bordercolor=#cc in IE this renders perfectly fine, in Firefox it adds a 3D effect to the table border. Is there anyway of switching this off? -- Samuel Richardson 0405 472 748 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
Can you use CSS styles instead of HTML attributes and do: border-collapse: collapse; border: 2px solid #C00 ? On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 08:39:42 +1000, Samuel Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm building an HTML 4 Transitional layout for Firefox using tables. Before you all run screaming or hang me from the gallows I have a reason, the page is being used as an email promotion, web based email readers such as GMail ignore float styles necessitating the use of table based layouts (oh joy! The design is very complicated and the powers above don't want to simplify it) My question is; I'm using the follow to create a 2px wide red border with padding for content table cellpadding=5 cellspacing=0 border=2 bordercolor=#cc in IE this renders perfectly fine, in Firefox it adds a 3D effect to the table border. Is there anyway of switching this off? -- Samuel Richardson 0405 472 748 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Tyssen Design Web print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
As I explained, CSS layouts do not render in Gmail/Hotmail etc. I've tried your HTML below, it just gives me a fill in that table. You can see the HTML here: http://tui/expresstemplate/template_japanese/ The yellow section partway down the page is what I'm trying to fix, if you view it in both Firefox and IE you'll see the difference between them and what I'm trying to achieve. Thanks, Samuel -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Svip Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2007 9:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables Drop the border colour, and give the table a background and turn up your cellspacing and set border to 0. table cellpadding=5 cellspacing=2 border=0 background=#cc However, I would strongly suggest CSS for this job. Regards, Svip On 1/30/07, Samuel Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm building an HTML 4 Transitional layout for Firefox using tables. Before you all run screaming or hang me from the gallows I have a reason, the page is being used as an email promotion, web based email readers such as GMail ignore float styles necessitating the use of table based layouts (oh joy! The design is very complicated and the powers above don't want to simplify it) My question is; I'm using the follow to create a 2px wide red border with padding for content table cellpadding=5 cellspacing=0 border=2 bordercolor=#cc in IE this renders perfectly fine, in Firefox it adds a 3D effect to the table border. Is there anyway of switching this off? -- Samuel Richardson 0405 472 748 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 09:39:42AM +1100, Samuel Richardson wrote: I'm building an HTML 4 Transitional layout for Firefox using tables. My question is; I'm using the follow to create a 2px wide red border with padding for content table cellpadding=5 cellspacing=0 border=2 bordercolor=#cc bordercolor? So not HTML 4 Transitional then. in IE this renders perfectly fine, in Firefox it adds a 3D effect to the table border. Is there anyway of switching this off? Not without using CSS. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
Samuel Richardson wrote: As I explained, CSS layouts do not render in Gmail/Hotmail etc. ? I just tried sending a fairly complex HTML email that uses tables and is *totally* styled with inline CSS to my gmail account -- and it renders exactly as I'd expect. And as it happens, it has an embedded table with the following: table style=border-collapse:collapse; border: 1px solid silver; font-size: .9em; margin-top: 1em; :: which looks as intended, at least in Firefox... FWIW! -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
Hi Samuel, Can't you still use inline styles for the border and gmail will render it correctly? I know gmail is a pain with css, but have you tested inline css for this border problem? Cheers, Rachel -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Samuel Richardson Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2007 12:12 p.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: FW: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables Sorry, that address should be: http://duvel.intrepidtravel.com/expresstemplate/template_japanese/ -Original Message- From: Samuel Richardson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2007 10:11 AM To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Subject: RE: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables As I explained, CSS layouts do not render in Gmail/Hotmail etc. I've tried your HTML below, it just gives me a fill in that table. You can see the HTML here: http://tui/expresstemplate/template_japanese/ The yellow section partway down the page is what I'm trying to fix, if you view it in both Firefox and IE you'll see the difference between them and what I'm trying to achieve. Thanks, Samuel -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Svip Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2007 9:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables Drop the border colour, and give the table a background and turn up your cellspacing and set border to 0. table cellpadding=5 cellspacing=2 border=0 background=#cc However, I would strongly suggest CSS for this job. Regards, Svip On 1/30/07, Samuel Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm building an HTML 4 Transitional layout for Firefox using tables. Before you all run screaming or hang me from the gallows I have a reason, the page is being used as an email promotion, web based email readers such as GMail ignore float styles necessitating the use of table based layouts (oh joy! The design is very complicated and the powers above don't want to simplify it) My question is; I'm using the follow to create a 2px wide red border with padding for content table cellpadding=5 cellspacing=0 border=2 bordercolor=#cc in IE this renders perfectly fine, in Firefox it adds a 3D effect to the table border. Is there anyway of switching this off? -- Samuel Richardson 0405 472 748 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
Gmail supports many attributes, but not everything. I once found a great list of what different software and online clients support, sorry I have checked my bookmarks and can't locate it. If you find that list you'll be set, please post it here too because I would love to find it again! Cheers, Steve. Hassan Schroeder wrote: Samuel Richardson wrote: As I explained, CSS layouts do not render in Gmail/Hotmail etc. ? I just tried sending a fairly complex HTML email that uses tables and is *totally* styled with inline CSS to my gmail account -- and it renders exactly as I'd expect. And as it happens, it has an embedded table with the following: table style=border-collapse:collapse; border: 1px solid silver; font-size: .9em; margin-top: 1em; :: which looks as intended, at least in Firefox... FWIW! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
? I just tried sending a fairly complex HTML email that uses tables and is *totally* styled with inline CSS to my gmail account -- and it renders exactly as I'd expect. That might be fine for webmail accounts where you are using a web browser but what about desktop email clients? (yes Outlook/Outlook Express use IE to render html.. but what about others?.. can you be sure everyone's email client can even render tables? maybe I might be seen as old fashioned in this regard... but for email I prefer PLAIN TEXT - at least you can be sure everything can read that!) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
I did follow a random article that I found with a Google search that gave a list of which styles worked and which didn't, I assumed that the didn't list would not work inline either which may not be the case after reading a few posts on the list. If anyone can dig up a best methods article for producing HTML emails then that would be fantastic. S -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rachel May Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2007 11:31 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables Hi Samuel, Can't you still use inline styles for the border and gmail will render it correctly? I know gmail is a pain with css, but have you tested inline css for this border problem? Cheers, Rachel -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Samuel Richardson Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2007 12:12 p.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: FW: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables Sorry, that address should be: http://duvel.intrepidtravel.com/expresstemplate/template_japanese/ -Original Message- From: Samuel Richardson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2007 10:11 AM To: 'wsg@webstandardsgroup.org' Subject: RE: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables As I explained, CSS layouts do not render in Gmail/Hotmail etc. I've tried your HTML below, it just gives me a fill in that table. You can see the HTML here: http://tui/expresstemplate/template_japanese/ The yellow section partway down the page is what I'm trying to fix, if you view it in both Firefox and IE you'll see the difference between them and what I'm trying to achieve. Thanks, Samuel -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Svip Sent: Wednesday, 31 January 2007 9:52 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables Drop the border colour, and give the table a background and turn up your cellspacing and set border to 0. table cellpadding=5 cellspacing=2 border=0 background=#cc However, I would strongly suggest CSS for this job. Regards, Svip On 1/30/07, Samuel Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm building an HTML 4 Transitional layout for Firefox using tables. Before you all run screaming or hang me from the gallows I have a reason, the page is being used as an email promotion, web based email readers such as GMail ignore float styles necessitating the use of table based layouts (oh joy! The design is very complicated and the powers above don't want to simplify it) My question is; I'm using the follow to create a 2px wide red border with padding for content table cellpadding=5 cellspacing=0 border=2 bordercolor=#cc in IE this renders perfectly fine, in Firefox it adds a 3D effect to the table border. Is there anyway of switching this off? -- Samuel Richardson 0405 472 748 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
Michael MD wrote: That might be fine for webmail accounts where you are using a web browser but what about desktop email clients? (yes Outlook/Outlook Express use IE to render html.. but what about others?.. can you be sure everyone's email client can even render tables? maybe I might be seen as old fashioned in this regard... but for email I prefer PLAIN TEXT - at least you can be sure everything can read that!) I second that emotion! *growls in a curmudgeonly way and crawls back into hole* mark *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
If anyone can dig up a best methods article for producing HTML emails then that would be fantastic. http://www.campaignmonitor.com/blog/archives/2005/08/optimizing_css_1.html -- Tyssen Design Web print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
Michael MD wrote: That might be fine for webmail accounts where you are using a web browser but what about desktop email clients? (yes Outlook/Outlook Express use IE to render html.. but what about others?.. can you be sure everyone's email client can even render tables? maybe I might be seen as old fashioned in this regard... but for email I prefer PLAIN TEXT - at least you can be sure everything can read that!) And this client's emails are all sent multipart -- with a text/html *and* a text/plain version. And the HTML version is checked in both Outlook and Thunderbird, which probably covers 99% of her audience. Do you know any contemporary email clients that will try to render HTML that *don't* understand tables? I'd love to know which one(s) if you do. Thanks, -- Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com opinion: webtuitive.blogspot.com dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
Quoth Mark Harris at 01/31/07 12:01... Michael MD wrote: That might be fine for webmail accounts where you are using a web browser but what about desktop email clients? (yes Outlook/Outlook Express use IE to render html.. but what about others?.. can you be sure everyone's email client can even render tables? maybe I might be seen as old fashioned in this regard... but for email I prefer PLAIN TEXT - at least you can be sure everything can read that!) I second that emotion! I think that the best practice is to only send HTML emails if the recipient consents to it. Personally, I would say that the only thing that belongs in an e-mail is plain text (no virii, no waiting for graphics, no inline graphics that are so helpful to spammers, no distracting colours, etc...), but at very least give the recipient the choice. I am on several mailing lists with large corporations (mostly electronic component manufacturers), and nearly all of them present the mail format option on sign-up. Good on 'em. M -- Matthew Smith IT Consultancy Web Application Development Business: http://www.kbc.net.au/ Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Remove 3D Border Effect from Firefox Tables
It is always a good idea to check the CSS-discuss wiki http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=StyleInEmail might have enough links, tips and tricks to do what you want. (and you can always update it...) Philippe --- Philippe Wittenbergh http://emps.l-c-n.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
