Technical Meeting Venues
I'm still looking for suggestions for venues for the next two technical meetings (Feb 22 26). How do people feel about going back to State51? Does someone want to contact the ICA? Any other suggestions? Dave...
Re: Dream weaver
On Wed 24 Jan, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dreamweaver (I know, don't ask) But I must ! You are only the second person I have heard of who has used it... In November I was asked by a Judge to convert a court guide written in Word into HTML. Only real problem was the index which was good, but indexed pages, not paragraphs. I solved this with a bit of creative editing of the Word file, a script, and MakeIndex. A colleague and I then checked each page on every available OS and browser and it was then sent off by the Judge to Court Service to be put on their site, assuming it would appear there within a couple of days. It turned out that Court Service requires that every page on its site should be topped and tailed with a template which ensures that the page is in the default colours of white text on a sludge blue background. Hardly difficult to achieve, although hideous[1]. Even without using TT, and as an amateur, it took me less than half an hour to extract the templates from another file on the site and to write a script that topped and tailed all 37 files in about 20 seconds. (OK, my version probably needed a bit of tidying up by hand.) But when I asked those in charge of the Court Service site why they could not do the same I was told "We don't have Perl and we don't need it, we use Dreamweaver. It will take us 5 days to do the work". The files appeared on the CS site 6 weeks later. Am I right in thinking that what CS said made as much sense as "We don't need a case of claret because we have a pound of brussels sprouts"? rh [1] http://www.courtservice.gov.uk -- Roger Horne 11 New Square, Lincoln's Inn, London WC2A 3QB mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.hrothgar.co.uk/
Re: Dumb-assed question
On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 06:02:25PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dreamweaver (I know, don't ask) nicely escapes the spaces to %20 but when I try and download these, the %20 appears in the Netscape file save as box instead of spaces. Dreamweaver is by far the best GUI html development tool I'm aware of. Michael
Re: Dumb-assed question
* at 25/01 10:37 + Michael Stevens said: On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 06:02:25PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dreamweaver (I know, don't ask) nicely escapes the spaces to %20 but when I try and download these, the %20 appears in the Netscape file save as box instead of spaces. Dreamweaver is by far the best GUI html development tool I'm aware of. the number of times i've sent stuff to people that works fine, had them run it through dreamweaver and then complain that it's broken makes me wonder what the bad gui tools are like. struan
Re: Dream weaver
Roger Horne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed 24 Jan, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dreamweaver (I know, don't ask) But I must ! You are only the second person I have heard of who has used it... [snip] Am I right in thinking that what CS said made as much sense as "We don't need a case of claret because we have a pound of brussels sprouts"? Pretty much ! Having started the web site project here without much knowledge of developing websites (having mostly been doing corporate network support before that) I allowed the designer to choose the tools. I chose apache/mod_perl for the backend because I wanted to learn more about perl apache. Perhaps not the best rationale but hey, it's my project :-) We now have a site with lots of html files full of dreamweaver tags which are very easy to mess up with a text editor so we tend to stick to DW and keep the hand editing to a minimum. Having learned LOTS in the last year, we are planning to rebuild the site to separate the templates from the content because content management is becoming a pain. Naturally we will be doing this with perl. So - Dreamweaver is a good gui editor but it generates files which are difficult to maintain. It is good for those who are not technically minded but probably not the best choice if you have technical skills available. We will ditch DW in the new version of the site. Simon. __ This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, our company disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited.
Re: Dream weaver
On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 11:09:15AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Pretty much !
Having started the web site project here without much knowledge of developing
websites (having mostly been doing corporate network support before that) I
allowed the designer to choose the tools. I chose apache/mod_perl for the
backend because I wanted to learn more about perl apache. Perhaps not the best
rationale but hey, it's my project :-)
We now have a site with lots of html files full of dreamweaver tags which are
very easy to mess up with a text editor so we tend to stick to DW and keep the
hand editing to a minimum.
Having learned LOTS in the last year, we are planning to rebuild the site to
separate the templates from the content because content management is becoming a
pain. Naturally we will be doing this with perl.
So - Dreamweaver is a good gui editor but it generates files which are difficult
to maintain. It is good for those who are not technically minded but probably
not the best choice if you have technical skills available.
We will ditch DW in the new version of the site.
I think there's a lot of potential for manipulating dreamweaver's markup
and file structures from perl. I've been able to write CGI scripts
that do stuff like.
print STDOUT get_library_component('componentname');
and fetch and include stuff from dreamweaver at the appropriate place.
I think there's a lot of potential in this sort of approach but I've not
heard of anyone exploiting it.
Michael
__
This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed
and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent
written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, our company disclaim all
responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the
consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such
information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written
confirmation.
If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us
immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from
your computer.
Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification,
distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly
prohibited.
use Std::Disclaimer::Moan;
my $moan = new Std::Disclaimer::Moan;
$moan-mail('[EMAIL PROTECTED]');
Re: Dumb-assed question
On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 11:05:49AM +, Struan Donald wrote: * at 25/01 10:37 + Michael Stevens said: On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 06:02:25PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dreamweaver (I know, don't ask) nicely escapes the spaces to %20 but when I try and download these, the %20 appears in the Netscape file save as box instead of spaces. Dreamweaver is by far the best GUI html development tool I'm aware of. the number of times i've sent stuff to people that works fine, had them run it through dreamweaver and then complain that it's broken makes me wonder what the bad gui tools are like. struan Waiter, a copy of Frontpage 2000 for the gentleman! jp
Re: perl code from cron
On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Robert Shiels wrote:
Hi,
Stupid question, but a code snppet got posted to NY-PM last night, and I
wanted to play with it. The problem I have is not understanding how to add
this function (rcsw) to get it to run from cron, or indeed, to run. I've put
the code in my ~/.bashrc file, am I on the right track ?
Here's the recursive version, which has more perl. Run
this out of cron once a week to remind you if you left any
files locked somewhere in your development tree:
rcsw()
{
perl -MFile::Find -e '
find(sub { push(@f, $File::Find::name) if /,v$/; }, @ARGV);
$/ = ";";
foreach $file (@f) {
if (open(F, $file)) {
while (F) {
if (/locks\s+(\S+);/ $1) { print "$file\t$1\n"; last; }
}
close(F);
} else {
warn "Could not read $file";
}
}
' $*
}
Nice.
Put the function in the top of a shell script and the call it with just
rcsw at some point after that (possibly after setting an appropriate
environment ) run the shell script from cron.
/J\
--
Jonathan Stowe |
http://www.gellyfish.com | I'm with Grep on this one
http://www.tackleway.co.uk |
RE: Dream weaver
As someone who's been using templates and perl to do web sites since January 96 I can see both sides of the argument. We (perl people) are all much happier with the idea of building pages from bits it appeals to our laziness. There are however end users to consider. Much as I have tried I cannot get the marketing droids to use vim and templates. They seem to have a real problem with this. Our solution to this has been to write some perl code to convert Word documents (marketers tool of choice) into Template::Toolkit templates that we use internally. This makes us all happy :-) SAM
Re: Dream weaver
On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 01:32:46PM -, Matthews Simon wrote: As someone who's been using templates and perl to do web sites since January 96 I can see both sides of the argument. We (perl people) are all much happier with the idea of building pages from bits it appeals to our laziness. There are however end users to consider. Much as I have tried I cannot get the marketing droids to use vim and templates. They seem to have a real problem with this. Our solution to this has been to write some perl code to convert Word documents (marketers tool of choice) into Template::Toolkit templates that we use internally. This makes us all happy :-) I would actually be interested to hear from someone on the Dreamweaver side of this argument... Anyone? Michael
Re: Dream weaver
On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 01:43:47PM -, Mark Kitching wrote: I would actually be interested to hear from someone on the Dreamweaver side of this argument... Anyone? Michael I'd love to but the last time I spoke about Dreamweaver with Dave Cross around it turned into a LOOONG lunchtime. I'm not seeing the flaw yet... Michael
Re: Dream weaver
Matthews Simon sent the following bits through the ether: Our solution to this has been to write some perl code to convert Word documents (marketers tool of choice) into Template::Toolkit templates that we use internally. IIRC, you had patched wvware to output XML. Has this patch made it into the main wvware distribution, and if not why not? ;-) Have you found wvware stable enough to do this properly everytime, or do you force your users to use standard templates? Leon ps would make a good talk for tpc ;-) -- Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/ yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/ ... Join the Group Mind - become a Borg
Re: Dream weaver
* at 25/01 15:56 - Robert Shiels said: Subject: RE: Dream weaver Just got sent this: DREAMWEAVER 3.0- Training Dates Now Available! == With Dreamweaver being adopted by up to 90% of development companies worldwide, Focus Group are now providing cost effective, scheduled and company specific Dreamweaver training, offering Developers the opportunity to gain extensive skills in just 2 days. up to 90%? struan
Re: JOB: desperately seeking symbian
* Steve Mynott ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: you dont want this job, you'd have to sit near me ;-) The upside of this is that you are likely to get the occasional chocolate bar thrown in your direction! i only buy chocolate for good little programmers not evil testers/technical authors -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: word processors
I generally find myself writing outlines on paper or in textpad and then finishing in MSWord, since that's how everyone wants the final product. I refuse to provide documentation in Word as its prone to editing by others. For me, Lyx - Latex - PDF. PGP sign and deliver.
Re: Dream weaver
DREAMWEAVER 3.0- Training Dates Now Available!
==
With Dreamweaver being adopted by up to 90% of development companies
worldwide, Focus Group are now providing cost effective, scheduled and
company specific Dreamweaver training, offering Developers the
opportunity to gain extensive skills in just 2 days.
What's a 'development company' when it's at home? Also, note that
Developers is being used as a proper noun here (as in, what Focus group
consider a Developer to be)
Later.
Mark.
(Who works in marketing and remembers the phrase about not trying to
bullshit a bullshiter)
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name = 'Mark Fowler',Title = 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm = 'Profero Ltd',Web = 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email = '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone = '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: odd -w effect
to delete the URL in a browser window and then paste. Being able to click it and then hit ^V is *much* nicer (in Windows) than this manual delete time wastage. If you run enlightment as a windowmanager you can use the URL epplet. You simply highlight the URL (or a lump of text which contains a URL) and click "www", "ftp" or "get". WWW opens up a web browser, ftp opens up an xterm with ftp running and connected and "get" runs wwwget and saves the file in your local directory. Red
Mailing List Archive
From the discussion on IRC, it seems that Leon's summary mail has opened a bit of a can of worms. There are a number of people who don't like the idea of a publically advertised archive of this mailing list. It seems that mail-archive.com have been archiving our list for some time and anyone who knows about mail-archive can find anything posted to our list. I just wanted to make sure that anyone knew that this was happening and give everyone the chance to air their views. If the majority are against it then I'll do what I can to prevent it. In there meantime, you might be interested to know that mail-archive claims that they honour the X-No-Archive mail header. Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug
Re: Mailing List Archive
On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 08:20:28PM +, Dave Cross wrote: From the discussion on IRC, it seems that Leon's summary mail has opened a bit of a can of worms. There are a number of people who don't like the idea of a publically advertised archive of this mailing list. For the record, I don't like the idea.
Re: Mailing List Archive
Well, this discussion has been beaten to death on IRC, so I feel like I'm repeating myself here. But for the public record: ;-) - This is a public list. Anyone can subscribe using an advertised address. - We're not plotting to bring down the government. - "Information wants to be free." Old emails live for ever. However: - Google already knows more about me than I'd like ;-) - We don't need an archive: it's not exactly going to contain useful information. - The hoarders among us will have our own archives. So I vote against a public archive. .robin.
Re: Mailing List Archive
Robin Houston sent the following bits through the ether: - This is a public list. Anyone can subscribe using an advertised address. This is the key point. It is a public list. If you don't like the idea that your potential employers or employees could read everything you write then: o grow up o conversations in the pub are not the same as a mailing list o people are leaky in real life - it pays to be honest all the time I'm proud of everything google finds out about me. Why shouldn't you be? Leon -- Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/ yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/ ... Bioengineers wear designer genes
Re: Mailing List Archive
* Robin Houston ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 09:14:08PM +, Leon Brocard wrote: o grow up Hey! No need to get defensive till you lose the vote :-) i vote for no vote, keep things as they are if people object to their views being public, don't post them in what is a public forum - if this is still a problem, then the question should be should london.pm become a private forum, with people being added after a vote - this smells fishy to me ;-) ;-) ;-) [1] personally, the day london.pm becomes a private, invite only forum, i'll be off to london-public.pm's mailing list (this may make london.pm even more popular for those sensitive to signal/noise) - as for google knowing too much about you, welcome too 1984+17 i saw a good post today on abou, someone was complaigning that the older sci-fi books were crap because they were too close to reality (they didn't realise the significance of this and so were flamed, the flame got to abou) grep - i was called this by a non-london.pmer recently [1] you++ to anyone who gets the joke apart from stevem -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Mailing List Archive
On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 11:24:44PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: [1] you++ to anyone who gets the joke apart from stevem This is clearly a red ha^Herring. Ignore. Besides, policy type="groucho marx" / Paul
Re: Mailing List Archive
On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Leon Brocard wrote: Robin Houston sent the following bits through the ether: - This is a public list. Anyone can subscribe using an advertised address. This is the key point. It is a public list. If you don't like the idea that your potential employers or employees could read everything you write then: o grow up o conversations in the pub are not the same as a mailing list o people are leaky in real life - it pays to be honest all the time I'm proud of everything google finds out about me. Why shouldn't you be? I go trawling search engines to see what they turn up about me also. It's fun. But It isn't a question of google finding out about you: it is about how much information you want made available to complete strangers. How would you feel if a member of this list was sacked because someone accessed an archive and noticed a post during work hours? Bear in mind, we are living with Big Brother now. Regards Kieran
Re: Mailing List Archive
On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 11:24:44PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Robin Houston ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 09:14:08PM +, Leon Brocard wrote: o grow up Hey! No need to get defensive till you lose the vote :-) i vote for no vote, keep things as they are if people object to their views being public, don't post them in what is a public forum - if this is still a problem, then the question should be should london.pm become a private forum, with people being added after a vote - this smells fishy to me ;-) ;-) ;-) [1] personally, the day london.pm becomes a private, invite only forum, i'll be off to london-public.pm's mailing list (this may make london.pm even more popular for those sensitive to signal/noise) - as for google knowing too much about you, welcome too 1984+17 I don't have a problem with it, apart from not knowing about it beforehand, especially as mail-archive.com doesn't seem to reveal email addresses but I think making the list "private" is a different argument from putting up a web-accessible archive. To make it harder for google to find you - change your name Prince style. jp
Re: Mailing List Archive
* Robin Szemeti ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I must admit I don;t particularly like the idea of someone else holding this info though .. I mean .. its like 'ours' innit .. but i have no i'm sure you could do something in your sig, along the lines of this email is copyright of robin szemeti , archiving of this email is strictly prohibetted and then call them up/fax them/go sit in their lobby/email them etc. telling them how they shouldnt be doing this better still if everybody did this for just one or two messages a year it would cause chaos muhahahahahahahaha -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Mailing List Archive
* James Powell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: To make it harder for google to find you - change your name Prince style. good idea! - greg of wales -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Mailing List Archive
On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, you wrote: * Robin Szemeti ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I must admit I don;t particularly like the idea of someone else holding this info though .. I mean .. its like 'ours' innit .. but i have no i'm sure you could do something in your sig, along the lines of this email is copyright of robin szemeti , archiving of this email is strictly prohibetted and then call them up/fax them/go sit in their lobby/email them etc. telling them how they shouldnt be doing this he he .. to be fair I don;t really mind em doing it sorta .. I means its useful innit .. but I do get a funny 'they dint ask me first .. are they going to become millioaires on the advertising revenue and I dont get a penny' sorta thing ... and as any fule kno .. just because you publish it on a public channel does NOT mean you don't have copyright on what was written wether its explicitly stated or not. (in the UK at least) ahh whatever lifes too short to worry about it ... since this is being archived .. next week lottery numbers are ; 2 7 20 23 34 38 you just see if im right ... -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Fwd: [uri@sysarch.com: free copy of data munging with perl]
I'd be failing in my duty as group leader if I didn't pass on this announcement from the Perl Mongers Group Leaders mailing list :) Dave... - Forwarded message from Uri Guttman [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:25:55 -0500 From: Uri Guttman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: free copy of data munging with perl this is forwarded from manning and they are offering each pm group a free copy of data munging with perl by dave cross. uri New Book Announcement: Data Munging with Perl by David Cross January 18, 2001 This message is being sent to you as a representative of a Perl Mongers group. To learn more about one of Manning's newest Perl books and to find out how to get a complimentary copy for your group, please read the following announcement. _ Manning Publications Co. announces the release of Data Munging with Perl. The ebook edition is available now exclusively from the publisher's web site, www.manning.com/cross. The print edition will be available later in this month. The transformation of data from one format to another, colloquially "munging," is one of the most common programmer tasks. This new Manning book examines this important process in detail and shows how well suited Perl is for these tasks. Although aspects of data munging are much discussed online within the Perl community, this is the first Perl book entirely focused on munging. The book covers appropriate methods for reading and writing various data formats, from unstructured text files through record based file formats and binary data, to highly structured formats like HTML and XML. XML is fast becoming one of the most frequently seen data formats and this book is the first to cover XML processing with Perl in some depth. The book culminates with techniques for building parsers that will handle any file format you are likely to need. If you are a programmer who munges data, this book will save you time. It will teach you systematic and powerful techniques using Perl. What's inside: ~ Using CPAN modules like Number::Format, Date::Manip, Text::CSV_XS ~ Making your code concise using Perl's special variables (like $/, $" and $_) ~ Building data parsers using Parse::RecDescent ~ Processing of HTML and XML For a closer look at Data Munging with Perl, Manning offers components of the book online: the Table of Contents, two sample chapters, the Index, source code and direct access to the author's expertise via the Author Online discussion forum. . Even those who do not own the book can tap into these features. Just go to www.manning.com/cross. ABOUT THE AUTHOR... Dave Cross is the owner and Managing Director of Magnum Solutions Ltd., an Internet and database consultancy based in London. He has 12 years' experience working in the IT industry. He is an active member of the Perl community, the founder of the London Perl Mongers, and is a regular columnist for Perlmonth, the online Perl magazine. MANNING'S USER GROUP PROGRAM... Manning actively supports user groups by donating complementary copies of our books for presentation at meetings, for raffle prizes and for group libraries. For a copy of this book, please email your request to Helen Trimes at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please include the book title, format (print or ebook), your name, the user group's name and your shipping address. As a small but growing computer book publisher, we appreciate the value of word of mouth. You can help by posting book reviews on a mailing list, on a Web site, in a magazine or ezine, on a newsgroup or at an online bookstore. Manning is committed to supporting the Perl community and we appreciate your interest in Manning books. Please inquire about author speaking engagements at user group meetings by contacting [EMAIL PROTECTED] MANNING'S INNOVATIVE EBOOKS PROGRAM. Manning ebooks, downloaded in pdf format, contain the complete text and illustrations of the printed edition, plus a linked index and bookmarks to every entry in the Table of Contents. To order Data Munging with Perl, ebook edition, go to the publisher's Web site http://www.manning.com/cross/ebook.html. At $13.50, it is a considerable saving off the printed edition. As an added perk, buyers of the ebook who later decide to purchase the print edition will receive a $13.50 discount. That is like getting the ebook free. To take advantage of this offer, you must order both editions from the Manning site. BUY MANNING BOOKS. Data Munging with Perl, ebook edition is available now in PDF format. Watch for the release of Data Munging with Perl, print edition at an introductory discount of 20% off at the publisher's Web site later this month. Information on telephone and FAX orders is also available at the site, but the 20% discount applies *only* to online orders of the printed version of this book. Manning print editions are available from the publisher's Web site and everywhere that
Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms
Robin Houston [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (Sadly I no longer have shell access to any four-processor Sun machines to confirm this.) Which reminds me. How in gods name do Sun get away with charging so much for stuff? We've erm, "acquired" an enterprise 420. this box has 2 CPUs, 4G or RAM and about 80G of disk. For the same money I could build a clutster of what, 30 linux boxes? Don't tell me programmer time has got that expensive? Or that thinking about what you're doing stopped happening? If it's good enough for Google... Help me out here! -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
