RE: previous jobs
so who else has had cool non-IT jobs in the past? I walways had crappy non-IT jobs. The absolute worst was when I went to work in a plastics factory. As new boy, it fell to me to make sure that all the waste plastic was disposed of as efficiently as possible. Translated, that meant dragging sack after sack of off-cuts to a large skip, chucking them in, and then packing them down. i.e. fifty percent of my job involved getting in the skip and jumping up and down on the rubbish. Great at parties: "So, what do you do, then?" "I jump up and down in a skip." "Oh, hello Mr Icke!" -- matt you said it wasn't art, so now we're gonna rip you apart
Re: previous jobs
At Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:44:28 +, Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so who else has had cool non-IT jobs in the past? I was the social secretary at City University for a year - 1981/2. Does that count? Interesting stories that I can be persuaded to tell after a few beers: 1/ Turning down Culture Club because they'd never get anywhere. 2/ Also turning down China Crisis for the same reason (tho' I was probably right there). 3/ Being threatened by Buster Bloodvessel of Bad Manners. 4/ Booking Toto Coelo and being accused of sexism by the London Student newspaper. 5/ Booking Marillion just before they became really famous. Probably some more that I'll remember later. Dave...
Mark Thomas
(Even more off-topic than usual) I've got four tickets for the filming of the Mark Thomas Product this Sunday. It's filmed in the pub at the end of my road, but I don't think I'll be around in time to go. You'd need to be in the pub for about 7:15pm to get decent seats, but the filming doesn't actually start until 9pm. I'll have them with me tonight if anyone wants to claim them. Dave...
Re: previous jobs
so who else has had cool non-IT jobs in the past? Security guard at a site which was under constant threat from animal rights bombers. with the name and we need to ``leverage'' it (sorry) now in all aspects of the company, from sales/marketting to programming Hmmm, skills... A healthy paranoia of un-expected parcels and letters.
Re: Perl Books
Also L Steins Network Programming with Perl is a good book. I'm only a chunk into it buts its a good read on its own and an even better one if your not from a Unix background. Yup, it's a bloody impressive book. I concur. I was lucky enough to get a look at the copy that Dave Cross had at the technical meeting. The next day I was down Waterstones buying my own copy.
Opening Files using OO Modules
I'm tidying up a script that splits a file into several other files.
The script is called like this:
splitter.pl input.dat 3 out1.dat 4 out2.dat 5 out3.dat
Within the script, the lines output to different files depending on
a $type data field. The files are used like this:
my $fh = "FH$type";
open $fh, "=$streamnum{$type}" or die $!;
print $fh "some data from the input file";
Where %streamnum maps a $type to an output file descriptor.
This, of course, breaks under 'use strict' as print doesn't like to be
passed a variable for the filehandle (it treats it as a symbolic
reference).
Aha, I think. I'll replace the file stuff with one of the OO file
modules. so I've changed the code to:
my $fh = IO::File-new;
$fh-open("=$streamnum{$type}") or die $!;
$fh-print "some data from the input file";
But it seems that IO::File::open doesnt like the '=FD' syntax as I get
an error saying:
Output C failed to open at ./split_web2.pl line 50, chunk 2
Whereas it worked find on the older, more clunky method.
I've also tried using the Filehandle module with the same (lack of)
results.
Any advice?
Dave...
Re: Mark Thomas
Dave Cross wrote: (Even more off-topic than usual) I've got four tickets for the filming of the Mark Thomas Product this Sunday. It's filmed in the pub at the end of my road, but I don't think I'll be around in time to go. You'd need to be in the pub for about 7:15pm to get decent seats, but the filming doesn't actually start until 9pm. I'll have them with me tonight if anyone wants to claim them. Dave... Does MT have a special T shirt vendor ? Yesterdays was a monopoply joke that I did not get Greg
Re: previous jobs
so who else has had cool non-IT jobs in the past? Operations Manager, Wizards of the Coast Limited next best thing to being a crack dealer :-) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: irc problems
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:18:04AM +, Michael Stevens wrote: I can't get onto any of rhizomatic.net. Is anyone else having problems? Not I. London tolerates my caresses. Bullfrog seems to be doing some spletnit shenannigans though. .robin. -- Straw? No, too stupid a fad! I put soot on warts.
Re: Opening Files using OO Modules
At Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:52:25 +, Robin Houston [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 05:01:37AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote:
Within the script, the lines output to different files depending on
a $type data field. The files are used like this:
my $fh = "FH$type";
open $fh, "=$streamnum{$type}" or die $!;
print $fh "some data from the input file";
Where %streamnum maps a $type to an output file descriptor.
This, of course, breaks under 'use strict' [...]
If you have perl 5.6, you can do it even more simply
(and in a way which works under 'strict'):
open my $fh, "=$streamnum{$type}" or die $!;
print $fh "some data from the input file";
I like that!
Yeah that would be cool, but we're using 5.005_02 here :(
I've fixed it anyway. For the '=FD' sybtax to work, you need to have
redirected that file descriptor to a file, which I was doing in the
full script, but not in my cut-down testbed.
D'oh!
Dave...
Re: Opening Files using OO Modules
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 05:01:37AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote:
Within the script, the lines output to different files depending on
a $type data field. The files are used like this:
my $fh = "FH$type";
open $fh, "=$streamnum{$type}" or die $!;
print $fh "some data from the input file";
Where %streamnum maps a $type to an output file descriptor.
This, of course, breaks under 'use strict' [...]
If you have perl 5.6, you can do it even more simply
(and in a way which works under 'strict'):
open my $fh, "=$streamnum{$type}" or die $!;
print $fh "some data from the input file";
I like that!
.robin.
RE: Mark Thomas
From: Greg Cope [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Does MT have a special T shirt vendor ? Yesterdays was a monopoply joke that I did not get I tuned in halfway through an item about ECGD (the UK Govt's export credit guarantee department), which was something to do with two hotels they helped fund in Ghana, which turned out to be one hotel and a load of apartments, presumably without any refund to the poor old UK taxpayers... - hence the shirt - two hotels != one hotel and four houses... Andrew.
Re: previous jobs
so who else has had cool non-IT jobs in the past? Being a bus conductor during the summer holidays when I was in the sixth form was fun. Working on various defence projects for dodgy third world dictatorships (including Indonesia and the US) was not, but we had wonderful toys. You wouldn't believe how much pleasure can be gained from drop-testing expensive hardware. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important ** PGP signature
Re: Mark Thomas
At Thu, 01 Feb 2001 10:27:25 +, Greg Cope [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does MT have a special T shirt vendor ? Yesterdays was a monopoply joke that I did not get I think it was a comment on the project in Ghana (or was it Kenya?) where the money for two hotels had ended up building a hotel and some expensive flats. I've a friend who works for the ECGD - she's going to get _such_ stick! Dave...
Re: irc problems
I can't get onto any of rhizomatic.net. Is anyone else having problems? Michael we're all there fine in actuall fact as I type this you've just appeared :-) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: Mark Thomas
At Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:57:11 +, Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: (Even more off-topic than usual) I've got four tickets for the filming of the Mark Thomas Product this Sunday. It's filmed in the pub at the end of my road, but I don't think I'll be around in time to go. You'd need to be in the pub for about 7:15pm to get decent seats, but the filming doesn't actually start until 9pm. I'll have them with me tonight if anyone wants to claim them. /me wants two - i assume the usual method of distribution applies You can have two and Red gets the other two. I'll explain how it all works tonight, but it'll be easier all round if the four of you could meet in the pub before the show. Are you sure you'll be back from Newark in time? Well I know the Audi goes (yes, it can do 140mph! :-) ) but I'm not sure it'll do that 4up and anyway those tricks are best reserved for _very_ late a night. As it is I was assuming we'd be working some of Sunday as well. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: irc problems
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:28:37AM +, Neil Ford wrote: I can't get onto any of rhizomatic.net. Is anyone else having problems? Michael we're all there fine in actuall fact as I type this you've just appeared :-) Having now got on I can state the problem was a complete inability to get rhizomatic dns. Michael
Re: the list
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:21:47 +, Dominic Mitchell wrote: On Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 12:04:54PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: everyone is probably reading up on ruby in preparation for it taking over the world Well, there's a good article on it in the "25th anniversary" Dr Dobbs magazine. But there's also a Perl/Tk article, so don't feel left out. Bah! It's not a Perl/Tk article. It's a totally shit perl symbol table article which is unfocussed and chock full of hideous errors and misconceptions. No, hang on, that's the perl article in the next issue, which keeps mentioning Tk::Browser like it's relevant. I don't remember what the article you refer to was like, but it didn't have me shouting at the magazine. -- Peter Haworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Please keep in mind that you have come up against a KNOWN BUG in the C library, and Perl can't fix *everything* that is broken by other people." -- Chip Salzenberg
irc problems
I can't get onto any of rhizomatic.net. Is anyone else having problems? Michael
Re: irc problems
On or about Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:31:16AM +, Michael Stevens typed: On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:28:37AM +, Neil Ford wrote: I can't get onto any of rhizomatic.net. Is anyone else having problems? Michael we're all there fine in actuall fact as I type this you've just appeared :-) Having now got on I can state the problem was a complete inability to get rhizomatic dns. Still seeing that here. And oh dear: roger@dayspring:~$ host -t ns rhizomatic.net|wc -l 1 And whois gives: token.aliengods.com 199.245.105.172 token.aliengod.com 199.245.105.171 Ahem. Didn't they learn _anything_ from Microsoft? IRC's IP, anyone? R
Re: irc problems
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:35:47AM +, Roger Burton West wrote: Ahem. Didn't they learn _anything_ from Microsoft? IRC's IP, anyone? london.rhizomatic.net is also www.astray.com is 195.82.114.160
Re: previous jobs
Matthew Jones wrote: so who else has had cool non-IT jobs in the past? I walways had crappy non-IT jobs. The absolute worst was when I went to work in a plastics factory. As new boy, it fell to me to make sure that all the waste plastic was disposed of as efficiently as possible. I worked as a handy man and barman for a sort of restaurant/bar/shop complex in germany (like the Lassiters complex in Neighbours but without the class). I got in at 8am and swept for an hour and a half and then had to do things like clean the windows with washing up liquid and kitchen towel. Then I had to clean the vans with tea towels and washing up liquid. And no hose. In the time it took me it would ahve been far more efficent to just drive it to the car wash. But by far the worst job was cleaning out the grease traps in the kitchen which were big, heavy and full and had to be carried down a long corridor (usually spilling a fair whack over myself and the floor) and then taken outside and poured into canisters (with no funnel, I improvised using newspaper) again spilling copious quantities over myself and the floor. Then I had to clean up all the oil that was lying around. I got home at 2pm and then at 6:30 I went out again and worked as the barman until midnight/1am. The clientele was mostly pissed squaddies. For this work I got the princley sum of 8 Marks an hour. Or 2 pounds 30. However pints were 1 mar (about 3o p) each so I worked out that since I could buy 8 pints an hour that was the equivalent of 16 quid which kept me (sort of) sane. Mostly.
Re: Perl Books
On Thu, 01 Feb 2001, you wrote: Robin Szemeti [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: * *i think we get a slanted view on what a 'normal level of intelligence' *is, because in general, we work with exceptional people. I spent the last I know at least 2 nobel laureates who wouldn't know jack about CGI or about selecting which book might be a better buy. Hell, I installed Microsoft BOB for one of them way back when the GUI of windows vs. the beauty of TeX was a bit much. Something new is a challenge, even if you are a rocket scientist. hmm .. I think we're getting a bit mixed up between mr hearst and newspapers and technical knowledge in a particular area. still ... keep going. :) But what you say above proves my point dunnit ... these guys are nobel laureates and they enjoy a challenge.. out there in the real world a large percentage of the population finds adding up the money for the bus a challenge ... the pasics of CGI are rocket science for most people. It's not a matter of pandering to the stupid, it's a matter of presenting the information in a format that is easy to read and understand without treating the reader to sanskrit. uh huh ... agreed. Of course, even the brilliant are often stupid especially when it comes to applied v. theory. The great unwashed masses of CGI are probably not the brightest bulbs, but I don't think it's so much an esoteric subject to justify such a dearth in good documentation for them. no .. its not (for want of a better word) rocket science, but to do it correctly does require a broad range of knowledge about several different systems and really what Ms Castro attempts to do is give a bit of all of that to a readership that simply wants to bang something into their homepage and for it to work. I agree that the documenttion was not 'good' by professional standards but it was a book for non-programmers. a sort of paperback intro to half of what they needed to know. I have issues with how shes goes about it (like CGI.pm would have made life soo much easier ) and some of the perl is awful, but I beleive that readership it was aimed at would have gone all glassy eyed and fallen over backwards at the word 'subroutine' and run off screaming if you said 'regex' so ... oh I dunno .. yes its crap perl, yes its not a great work on CGI .. but it probably achieves what it set out to do, give basic knowledge to someone who only wnats to spend two lunchtimes on a bit of CGI for their home page. I dunno .. I guess there is the 'type this in like this' level and there is the full blown 'buy a copy of Programming Perl' approach I dont see much middle ground. -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: irc problems
IRC's IP, anyone?
195.82.114.160
london.rhizomatic.net === astray.com
=== twoshortplanks.com
=== huckvale.net
(which is easier to remeber than IP numbers Shirley)
Should really get round to seconding the DNS methinks.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name = 'Mark Fowler',Title = 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm = 'Profero Ltd',Web = 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email = '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone = '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Perl Books
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:39:24AM +, Robin Szemeti wrote: [big snip] no .. its not (for want of a better word) rocket science, but to do it correctly does require a broad range of knowledge about several different systems and really what Ms Castro attempts to do is give a bit of all of that to a readership that simply wants to bang something into their homepage and for it to work. I agree that the documenttion was not 'good' by professional standards but it was a book for non-programmers. a sort of paperback intro to half of what they needed to know. I have issues with how shes goes about it (like CGI.pm would have made life soo much easier ) and some of the perl is awful, but I beleive that readership it was aimed at would have gone all glassy eyed and fallen over backwards at the word 'subroutine' and run off screaming if you said 'regex'... AHH! REGEX! (runs away) (sorry) Totally unrelated, I wish they'd open a PC Bookshop in Farringdon. jp
website directory access
I'm trying to stop people buggering about on my website and looking in directories they shouldn't be, this includes several robots that have started trawling through it. I have family pictures, and work related pictures. I want each group to only look at their own images (for example I don't want my family looking at the pictures of pissed-up perlmongers (not that I'm ashamed of you or anything :-) So I guess I have to make directories, and only tell people who need to know that they are there, and not link to them from any other publicly available page. I don't really like this, is there another way? I don't want to have to resort to .htpasswd files, which is what I've implemented for now. /Robert, realising that he doesn't know very much about web security actually
Re: Perl Books
At 12:34 PM 2/1/01 +, jp wrote: [snip] Totally unrelated, I wish they'd open a PC Bookshop in Farringdon. But it's only a 10-15 minute stroll to the one in Southampton Row from Farringdon. Rob
Re: website directory access
* at 01/02 12:35 - Robert Shiels said: I don't really like this, is there another way? I don't want to have to resort to .htpasswd files, which is what I've implemented for now. er, what's wrong with them? struan
Re: Perl Books
Those 15 minutes (each way, probably about 20 from where I am) come out of my pay packet! And it doesn't stay open late enough in the evening. I've been spoilt, I used to work at Tower 42 (was natwest tower) and the city branch was a well lobbed copy of an o'reilly book (preferably mysql msql) away. I can also recommend the bar in Tower 42 as a place to take friends to impress them (well, apart the snooty bar staff and average cocktails). jp On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 12:36:53PM -, Robert Shiels wrote: From: "James Powell" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Totally unrelated, I wish they'd open a PC Bookshop in Farringdon. Don't be so lazy :) You can walk to Holborn in under 15 minutes. /Robert
Re: website directory access
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:02:03PM -, Robert Shiels wrote: Well, publishing username/passwords to everyone who needs them is trickey, and getting people to remember them is also hard. For example, I took family photos, I want the whole family to look at them, and anyone else who they give the link to, but my mum has enough trouble connecting to the internet without remembering new usernames and passwords. You could give out urls with the usernames and passwords in? Michael
Re: website directory access
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:02:03PM -, Robert Shiels wrote: For example, I took family photos, I want the whole family to look at them, and anyone else who they give the link to, but my mum has enough trouble connecting to the internet without remembering new usernames and passwords. Username 'shiels' with no password? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important ** PGP signature
Re: website directory access
I don't really like this, is there another way? I don't want to have to resort to .htpasswd files, which is what I've implemented for now. er, what's wrong with them? Well, publishing username/passwords to everyone who needs them is trickey, and getting people to remember them is also hard. For example, I took family photos, I want the whole family to look at them, and anyone else who they give the link to, but my mum has enough trouble connecting to the internet without remembering new usernames and passwords. /Robert
Intra-list wanderings
I've noticed that a couple of threads have been wandering between the dircon and hfb lists. I think that we should be heavily deprecating the hfb list now and as some people are only on the dircon list it means that they are only getting a partial transcript of the discussion. Can everyone please double check any london.pm aliases that they might have set up and if you see any discussions going to hfb can you repoint them as appropriate. Cheers, Dave...
Free T-Shirts
It seems that Foyles on Tottenham Crt Rd are giving away free orielly shirts. I got a Perl and a Linux one just by asking ( there are loads on some orielly display in there ) and not even purchasing anything. mallum http://10.am/Development/Perl
Re: Amazon Sales Rank
On or about Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:39:08PM +, Michael Stevens typed: Now if they'd just actually send me the copy I ordered... (I think they said 3-5 weeks) Ditto. It's one of the 9 things remaining before they ship my latest order. Roger
Re: Amazon Sales Rank
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 08:35:10AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: Data Munging with Perl by David Cross Amazon.com Sales Rank: 760 Blimey, how did that happen? Yesterday it was 87,867! Now if they'd just actually send me the copy I ordered... (I think they said 3-5 weeks) Michael
Amazon Sales Rank
Data Munging with Perl by David Cross Amazon.com Sales Rank: 760 Blimey, how did that happen? Yesterday it was 87,867! Dave...
Re: website directory access
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 02:24:08PM +0100, Philip Newton wrote: Michael Stevens wrote: You could give out urls with the usernames and passwords in? Were you thinking of http://username:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/pics/drunkenperlmongers.jpg ? No such thing; RTFRFC for more info. There may well be no such thing, but since it works in just about every user agent, including LWP, that's a pretty bad argument against using it here in the Real World. It's a pretty obvious and compatible extension the the standard... .robin. -- "do not assume that you are in control of your own actions, but take responsibility for them anyway."
Re: website directory access
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 02:24:08PM +0100, Philip Newton wrote: Michael Stevens wrote: You could give out urls with the usernames and passwords in? Were you thinking of http://username:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/pics/drunkenperlmongers.jpg ? No such thing; RTFRFC for more info. Being somewhat practical, they do tend to work. Michael
Re: Amazon Sales Rank
At Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:39:08 +, Michael Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 08:35:10AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: Data Munging with Perl by David Cross Amazon.com Sales Rank: 760 Blimey, how did that happen? Yesterday it was 87,867! Now if they'd just actually send me the copy I ordered... (I think they said 3-5 weeks) Did you order it from amazon.co.uk? amazon.com have it stock and are sending it out now. It'll be another couple of weeks before it hits the amazon.co.uk warehouse. Dave...
Re: Amazon Sales Rank
At Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:44:25 +, Struan Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
* at 01/02 08:35 -0500 Dave Cross said:
Data Munging with Perl
by David Cross
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 760
Blimey, how did that happen? Yesterday it was 87,867!
a day in the life of a famous perl author:
goto: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1930110006/
while (1){
look at sales rank
sleep 300
hit refresh
}
This is so true.
Actually, the only difference between Perl authors and any other
authors is that we write scripts to do this an send us sms messages
whenever the sales rank changes[1]
Dave...
[1] Or, at least, we think very seriously about it :)
Re: Free T-Shirts
hurrah for the mayhem of foyles! * mallum ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: It seems that Foyles on Tottenham Crt Rd are giving away free orielly shirts. I got a Perl and a Linux one just by asking ( there are loads on some orielly display in there ) and not even purchasing anything. mallum http://10.am/Development/Perl -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
RE: Amazon Sales Rank
At Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:40:08 - , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought you were boycotting/not paying any attention to amazon ? Boycotting, yes. No paying any attention to, no - that would be stupid. Much as I hate it, I must accept that the majority of my sales will come thru Amazon. That's just The Way Of The World. Dave...
Re: Amazon Sales Rank
* at 01/02 08:35 -0500 Dave Cross said:
Data Munging with Perl
by David Cross
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 760
Blimey, how did that happen? Yesterday it was 87,867!
a day in the life of a famous perl author:
goto: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1930110006/
while (1){
look at sales rank
sleep 300
hit refresh
}
struan
Re: Amazon Sales Rank
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 08:52:02AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: Now if they'd just actually send me the copy I ordered... (I think they said 3-5 weeks) Did you order it from amazon.co.uk? amazon.com have it stock and are sending it out now. It'll be another couple of weeks before it hits the amazon.co.uk warehouse. Yeah - amazon.co.uk. It's part of a larger order and I'm probably going to just wait until it all ships... Michael
Re: Amazon Sales Rank
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:56:24PM +, Paul Mison wrote: Didn't the case of 'A Fist In the Bush' prove that Amazon's "Sales" rankings are actually down to how many people look at things? Wasn't that more to do with the "people who like like also like *this*" rankings that the actual sales ranks, which they claim are actually based on sales, and not even on who's paid them most? Tony -- - Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk don't you know how hard it is to hit the ground and mean it -
Re: Amazon Sales Rank
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:42:24PM +, Roger Burton West wrote: On or about Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:39:08PM +, Michael Stevens typed: Now if they'd just actually send me the copy I ordered... (I think they said 3-5 weeks) Ditto. It's one of the 9 things remaining before they ship my latest order. Roger WHSmith's www.bookshop.co.uk is good for this as they are incapable of storing orders so have to send each book when they get it (so you can end up with deliveries on subsequent days). They're also pretty competitive with Amazon. jp
Re: Amazon Sales Rank
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:56:24PM +, Paul Mison wrote: Didn't the case of 'A Fist In the Bush' prove that Amazon's "Sales" rankings are actually down to how many people look at things? Wasn't that more to do with the "people who like like also like *this*" rankings that the actual sales ranks, which they claim are actually based on sales, and not even on who's paid them most? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201615711/ref=sim_books/107-8558793- 5982946 gives Lincoln Steins rank as 11. What does this mean then, it's hardly going to be the 11th most popular book on Amazon, maybe it's the 11th most popular Perl book. How would you feel being number 760 in that list Dave :-) /Robert
Re: Free T-Shirts
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 02:44:54PM -0500, mallum wrote: It seems that Foyles on Tottenham Crt Rd are giving away free orielly shirts. I got a Perl and a Linux one just by asking ( there are loads on some orielly display in there ) and not even purchasing anything. When I got there they said I had to buy 3 O'Reilly books. So I bought three pocket references: mod_perl, Emacs and CVS. -- Niklas Nordebo -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 618, further transmissions to you by the sender may be stopped at NO COST to you by forwarding this e-mail to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=remove
Re: Free T-Shirts
on Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:48:14PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: hurrah for the mayhem of foyles! Its always fun when you get served by the crazy russian girl in there who always will ask you some bizzare visual studio question, when you inform her you use Linux and not Windows she then tells you Linux is no good because it dosn't support DCOM. hm mallum
Re: Perl Books
Robin Szemeti [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: * *But what you say above proves my point dunnit ... these guys are nobel *laureates and they enjoy a challenge.. out there in the real world a *large percentage of the population finds adding up the money for the bus a *challenge ... the pasics of CGI are rocket science for most people. Well, this particular one was 65 years old, a consultant to world leaders in Economic affairs and was completely baffled by the advent of a new laptop. He had better things to worry about than learning something as trivial and insignificant to life on the planet earth than CGI. Almost anyone other than Webheads have better things to do than learn CGI. It doesn't make them stupid, in fact, I'd almost argue that they are the bright ones. *'regex' so ... oh I dunno .. yes its crap perl, yes its not a great work *on CGI .. but it probably achieves what it set out to do, give basic *knowledge to someone who only wnats to spend two lunchtimes on a bit of *CGI for their home page. Which is probably about 95% of the planet. Why should they care if the Perl is shoddy? The web page works :) I went hunting for a quickie DBI/CGI tutorial/template/code I could steal last December and I can pretty much vouch for there being zip in that category out there on the web for the new and the lazy to take and learn from. It's disappointing. *I dunno .. I guess there is the 'type this in like this' level and there *is the full blown 'buy a copy of Programming Perl' approach I dont see *much middle ground. It's hard to write such a book. e.
Re: Amazon Sales Rank
Dave Cross [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: *Data Munging with Perl *by David Cross * *Amazon.com Sales Rank: 760 * *Blimey, how did that happen? Yesterday it was 87,867! http://cpan.valueclick.com/authors/id/TOMC/scripts/ contains 'amarank' which is a script you can use to feed the obsession :) It's old but it should still work. e.
Re: website directory access
Robin Houston wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 02:24:08PM +0100, Philip Newton wrote: Michael Stevens wrote: You could give out urls with the usernames and passwords in? Were you thinking of http://username:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/pics/drunkenperlmongers.jpg ? No such thing; RTFRFC for more info. There may well be no such thing, but since it works in just about every user agent, including LWP, that's a pretty bad argument against using it here in the Real World. Hm. You're right; it works at least with MSIE and NS on Win32, also with LWP. I had only tried it out on one site with Lynx (2.8.3rel1) and got a "400 Bad Request: Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand. Client sent malformed Host header", so I suppose Lynx sent "username:[EMAIL PROTECTED]". It's a pretty obvious and compatible extension the the standard... I'll give you that. Cheers, Philip
Re: Perl Books
On Thu, 01 Feb 2001, you wrote: Well, this particular one was 65 years old, a consultant to world leaders in Economic affairs and was completely baffled by the advent of a new laptop. He had better things to worry about than learning something as trivial and insignificant to life on the planet earth than CGI. Almost anyone other than Webheads have better things to do than learn CGI. It doesn't make them stupid, in fact, I'd almost argue that they are the bright ones. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS SAYING ... (in big letters just to make sure :) stunningly bright but experience in a different field .. understood. but still one of the (very) bright ones. I think you are getting confused between my comments about the desire to learn CGI by 'normal' people ( where I reckon that these people are already in the top few % of the pile) with my comments about the population in general .. who err .. 'function on a slightly lower level'. *'regex' so ... oh I dunno .. yes its crap perl, yes its not a great work *on CGI .. but it probably achieves what it set out to do, give basic *knowledge to someone who only wnats to spend two lunchtimes on a bit of *CGI for their home page. Which is probably about 95% of the planet. Why should they care if the Perl is shoddy? The web page works :) I went hunting for a quickie DBI/CGI tutorial/template/code I could steal last December and I can pretty much vouch for there being zip in that category out there on the web for the new and the lazy to take and learn from. It's disappointing. I thought thats what I was saying too ... I'd disagree with the 95% .. I'd say 99% .. plus. The good code is prfessionally written ... and mostly not out there on display .. you have to buy it! *I dunno .. I guess there is the 'type this in like this' level and there *is the full blown 'buy a copy of Programming Perl' approach I dont see *much middle ground. It's hard to write such a book. yup .. right see you lot at the meeting tonite, then .. im off to Switzerland :)) -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: Perl Books
Robin Szemeti writes: WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS SAYING ... (in big letters just to make sure :) stunningly bright but experience in a different field .. understood. but still one of the (very) bright ones. When I worked at an ISP, our motto was: The customer is an expert in their own field. Meaning, nobody's really a complete idiot and we'd seem just as dumb if we called brain surgery tech support, new mother tech support, or even gardening tech support. This has nothing to do with your thread, but this is London.pm so relevance be fucked :-) Nat
Re: Perl Books
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:57:20AM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote: [...] brain surgery tech support [...] Have you got the number? I'm having a spot of bother with my hypothalamus. .robin.
Re: Perl Books
On 01/02/2001 at 10:03 +, Robert Shiels wrote: Just had a look at the PC Bookshops website (www.pcbooks.co.uk). Didn't they used to have a way of finding out whether the book was actually on the shelf or not - I may drop in there today on my way south of the river (Oh, the shame) and wanted to plan my potential purchase. I was in there yesterday (working in Central London)++ and there was one copy in the Holborn shop. They didn't seem to have Programming Internet Email or DMP though. (When does Foyles close in the evenings anyway? I was pleasantly surprised when I went in there last week. Lots of tube books too.) -- :: paul :: they don't come at you with guns :: they come at you with smiles
Re: Perl Books
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:57:20AM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote:
Meaning, nobody's really a complete idiot and we'd seem just as dumb
if we called brain surgery tech support, new mother tech support, or
even gardening tech support.
True, but there aren't many people who will assume that they can perform
brain surgery just because they successfully applied a band-aid to a paper
cut the week before.
Ben
--
Benjamin HolzmanECNvantage Corp.
Chief Technical Officer 295 Park Avenue S., Suite 7C
(212) 358-0436 : [EMAIL PROTECTED] New York, NY, 10010
$ perl -le 'print join $" ,reverse map ucfirst ,qw{ hacker perl another just}'
Re: Perl Books
-Original Message- From: Elaine -HFB- Ashton [EMAIL PROTECTED] anyone other than Webheads have better things to do than learn CGI. It doesn't make them stupid, in fact, I'd almost argue that they are the bright ones. Amen. Which is probably about 95% of the planet. Why should they care if the Perl is shoddy? The web page works :) I can see your point and I agree that a tiny initial learning curve is a good thing but what happens when the shoddy bit of cgi is used to execute an intrusion on the host it's based on or another machine?. The coder has a responsibility to make sure that his work at least pays some attention to security. And if the book doesn't cover use warnings or use strict I doubt taint mode is in the contents. If you thought Simons Buffy joke was bad have a look at this, you want the Tainted Perl section... http://www.spy.org.uk/london2600/party-2000.htm Dean (Packing for Belgium so not at tonight's meeting) -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: Perl Books
-Original Message- From: Benjamin Holzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] True, but there aren't many people who will assume that they can perform brain surgery just because they successfully applied a band-aid to a paper cut the week before. You haven't been to the NHS recently have you... ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: Perl Books
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: No, there wasn't even something I could buy for it sadly. It's a simple CGI, I would have paid $15 for a quickie 'here's your simple cgi just plug in your variables here' code. Been there - more often than not, the cookbook fills any holes. I had a particular problem with web forums - slashcode being a bit OTT and wwwthreads cotsing money and then hundreds of PHP and java and asp forums, then I found mwforum and now I am rewriting it big time to get back into coding after sitting on my arse for weeks waiting for work or chasing people up or editing html. If anybody is interested I hope to have a TT'd version of mwforum on the web some time next week. After that I will totally hack it apart and rework it to fit my own twisted needs. If I wanted Java or PHP however, I could take my pick or reasonably quickly useful stuff. I didn't have the same results for Perl it is just not out there or my standards are too high and I was looking in the wrong place. A lot of programming is knowing where to look, If I hadn't been given a good lowdown on where to get decent Notes information I would have spent months getting anywhere but I was given the course notes for a notes course, a stack of Notes Magazines and a list of urls. Also bought myself the SAMs book on Notes Unleashed. I told my old man he'd learn pretty much all he needed to know from learning perl and perl cgi by ORA. Its much better than wasting tiem learning java or getting muddled with loads of crappy shareware or budget perl software. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Bad Perl
On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 09:22:57AM -0600, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote:
And speaking of bad books, who is this Martin Brown guy who has a new book
every month these days, certainly he must have a ghostwriter.
Debugging Perl ("his" latest, I believe...) is fairly evil.
Also, be sure to queue up for 'Instant Perl Modules', water not included.
Uh... well, this one shouldn't have *too* many problems (he says with
fingers crossed... :-).
dha
--
David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
"Well, to make this story the way it should be done we will technology
that won't invented for 30 years and a budget that could pay for a
large south american country." "What have we got?" "25 cents and a
block of wood." - Possible Dr. Who budget conference
