Re: Good Accountants
On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:33:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: actually .. nutscrape under Linux annoys me when it insists on looking up a hostname no matter how hard you click on the stop button .. bad threading. Excellent reason to use a proxy. Junkbuster's good... Roger
Re: Good Accountants
Robin Szemeti wrote: now I am absolutely totally 100% certain that some web browser (and thats all it is) should *not* mess around with the way I view folders. I think that was a turning point for me and my judgement is probably clouded and No, no, no, that's _not_ all it is. IE is a set of distributed objects that between them handle those things that you might want to do related to HTTP and the rendering of HTML and assocciated technologies. That's MUCH more than just a browser. Once IE is installed on your system it becomes relatively simple to make an excel spreadsheet where some cell has a value that is the result of an HTTP request. This is not something AFAIK that Opera or Netscape do. I think Mozilla is trying to be more like this, but I never use it so I don't know. I do know that Mozilla appears to be just as 'lightweight' as IE. The tragedy is that all these great objects and classes tend to be only accessible from inside stuff like VBA or VB or MSVC++. Maybe Perl's DCOM bindings on Win32 are robust enough now that I can use perl to script the IE objects, I don't know. Jon, who is now at a company that uses Netscape Messenger as the corporate mail client. Weep. But at least they keep ports 22 and 23 open on the firewall. Yay.
davorg, evil destroyer of privacy
On Thursday, April 26, 2001, at 07:23 PM, Niklas Nordebo wrote: Gets a 9, apparently. http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/04/26/1229238mode=thread I like the following comment (I know you've seen it, Niklas): =for amusement Boycott This Book!!! (Score:2, Troll) by none on Thursday April 26, @12:10PM EST (#22) (User #161746 Info) Have you stopped to consider the consequences of the information contained in books like this? This type of effort should not be supported by the Free Software community. Books like this give corporations the tools they need to destroy our privacy and strip us of our rights. How do you think Double Click puts the information about you it sells into useable form? With techniques it learns from this type of book. Same goes for the corporate websites you visit, your supermarket, etc. Information wants to be free, but not the information in this book. Data mining and Data munging techniques should never have left the hallowed halls of academe. Once they enter the public domain, they are immediately exploited by greedy corporations. The author should have thought about that before writing a book like this. If you buy or support books like this, you have lost any right to complain about your privacy being violated. If you are serious about privacy, boycott this book! =cut Marcel -- We are Perl. Your table will be assimilated. Your waiter will adapt to service us. Surrender your beer. Resistance is futile. -- London.pm strategy aka embrace and extend aka mark and sweep
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, you wrote: Well, if you're daft enough to install Turdpoke you deserve all you get. In my defence your Honour, this relates to the BL[1] period of my life and I am now a reformed character. I have worshipped at The Shrine Of The Penguin for many moons now, broken bread with Linus and I won't be going back to the cult od Gates[2]. [1] Before Linux [2] Well .. unless the client is paying .. hey .. I'am a contractor after all .. -- Robin Szemeti The box said requires windows 95 or better So I installed Linux!
DBD::*-bind_param() ?
Seems like DBD::Pg and mysql both support bind_param().. but do they really? Checking mysql API docs seems to suggest (unless I'm looking at the beginner version) there aren't any functions to prepare statements. I haven't looked at Postgres. Can anyone confirm/deny? Ah ha! (answering my own question): http://dbi.symbolstone.org/cgi/summarydump?module=Msql-Mysql-modules ? is emulated http://dbi.symbolstone.org/cgi/summarydump?module=DBD::Pg Yes, ? and :1 styles (native) Does anyone have any Real World experience with the speed-up (even hand-wavy vague anecdotes) of using bind values v. reparsing the SQL each time (for databases that support this obviously). Postgres and Oracle I'm particularly interested in. Paul
Re: MySQL - Oracle wrapper/compat. libs
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, you wrote:
The real answer is since you are using a database you care about speed
so spend three minutes reading the docs/google for your particular
database vendor and implement whatever strategy is suggested
(AUTO_INCREMENT, ROWID, oid, SEQUENCE, before-row-insert triggers,
etc).
but of course .. however the topic was (somewhere along the thread)
related to portable methods to try and keep from having to change all the
SQL between different db version.
Anyway .. for 90% of web apps its its a 100:1 read/write ratio .. lots of
people browse .. occasionally one of em places a bid/ makes a purchase so
the blocking anly occurs occasionally, ... if you do it sensibly (get all
the data ready .. {lock, get max, insert, release} the lock period is
tiny. and not really an issue.
however I stll prefer my method (implement it as a 'library' wrapper
class on DBI with the appropriate (AUTO_INCREMENT, ROWID, oid, SEQUENCE
or whatevr) technique and a library::insert($sql,@args) method) and then
you just have to plug in the approprate wrapper between your app and
todays choice of DB and in theory the app can stay the same.
--
Robin Szemeti
The box said requires windows 95 or better
So I installed Linux!
Re: Buffy? .. naah .. wait till you see this
Have a look at her right big toe in this, has someone doctored the photo? http://britneyspears.ac/bs/024b.jpg -- Robert - Original Message - From: Robin Szemeti [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 26 April 2001 21:19 Subject: Buffy? .. naah .. wait till you see this amusing: http://britneyspears.ac/lasers.htm -- Robin Szemeti The box said requires windows 95 or better So I installed Linux!
Re: DBD::*-bind_param() ?
On or about Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:46:16AM -0700, Paul Makepeace typed: Does anyone have any Real World experience with the speed-up (even hand-wavy vague anecdotes) of using bind values v. reparsing the SQL each time (for databases that support this obviously). Postgres and Oracle I'm particularly interested in. Oracle quite a bit - it parses the statement with placeholders and does large amounts of cacheing. Definitely worth it if you're fiddling with large dbs. For postgres it's a lot less important IME. Roger
Re: MySQL - Oracle wrapper/compat. libs
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 09:38:45AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
but of course .. however the topic was (somewhere along the thread)
related to portable methods to try and keep from having to change all the
SQL between different db version.
Why do this? Unless you're using the db in a toy capacity (which is
fair enough: see PHP) it's like using Java when you could be using
custom DSP hardware.
[side note: I did just see a bizarre thread in macosx-dev where
one guy claimed his FFT code was executing faster in Java than C
because its interpreter used runtime info to optimize it. Search on
'informal benchmarks']
the blocking anly occurs occasionally, ... if you do it sensibly (get all
the data ready .. {lock, get max, insert, release} the lock period is
tiny. and not really an issue.
There are enough assumptions here to make me again suggest you use
a vendor-specific route :-)
however I stll prefer my method (implement it as a 'library' wrapper
class on DBI with the appropriate (AUTO_INCREMENT, ROWID, oid, SEQUENCE
or whatevr) technique and a library::insert($sql,@args) method) and then
you just have to plug in the approprate wrapper between your app and
todays choice of DB and in theory the app can stay the same.
If it was that simple, someone would've done it -- DBI is a very
mature and competent module. Go check out Automatic Key or Sequence
Generation in the DBD driver feature summaries and you'll see why
it's hard to encapsulate this: they're all sooo different.
Paul
Re: Buffy? .. naah .. wait till you see this
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 09:39:18AM +0100, Robert Shiels wrote: Have a look at her right big toe in this, has someone doctored the photo? http://britneyspears.ac/bs/024b.jpg I read press releases that explicitly denied all rumors of any surgical enhancements to Britney's anatomy. HTH :) Paul
Re: DBD::*-bind_param() ?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 09:49:33AM +0100, Roger Burton West wrote: Oracle quite a bit - it parses the statement with placeholders and does large amounts of cacheing. Definitely worth it if you're fiddling with large dbs. For postgres it's a lot less important IME. Great, thanks! This is all in preparation for a syntax adjustment in everyone's favourite MTA... (which I'm fully expecting to get fried on) Paul
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:41:00AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: [ and don't even ask me about the time Demon distributed some pox ridden disk with IE4.1 on it ..'err I just installed the latest version of Turnpike and seem to have inherited IE4 .. how do I get rid of it as its screwed my desktop and folders' 'easy sir just do remove-programs etc' 'err hello .. Ive done that and my desktop is *still* screwed .. my folders appear as some sort of poxy browser with a stop button and back-forward buttons and they didn't before and I dont want them' ' err sorry sir .. it does some things to the kernel that can't be removed' now I am absolutely totally 100% certain that some web browser (and thats all it is) should *not* mess around with the way I view folders. I think that was a turning point for me and my judgement is probably clouded and unnecessarily predjudiced against it. ] Ho ho, you should have heard the stick that support got from that little prank. Have you been sent a green CD, sir? We'd better send you an orange one to recover your system... It went on for *weeks*. -Dom (always preferred green anyway)
Re: MySQL - Oracle wrapper/compat. libs
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, you wrote:
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 09:38:45AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
but of course .. however the topic was (somewhere along the thread)
related to portable methods to try and keep from having to change all the
SQL between different db version.
Why do this? Unless you're using the db in a toy capacity (which is
fair enough: see PHP) it's like using Java when you could be using
custom DSP hardware.
well somewhere along the thread the topic was keeping your db and app
sorta independent (ala tangram) for the 'we like it .. does it work on
Postgres as well as MySQL' days that come along and you'd rather not
change too much... but agreed for serious heavy duty work a fienly tuned
db schema using the best bits of whatever db you happen to have is the
way to go.
[side note: I did just see a bizarre thread in macosx-dev where
one guy claimed his FFT code was executing faster in Java than C
because its interpreter used runtime info to optimize it. Search on
'informal benchmarks']
uh huh .. but he's a Java programmer .. his C could be *REALLY* bad ;) ..
favourite Java quote 'If javas garbage collector is damn good, how come
the whole thing doesn't delete itself upon execution?'
the blocking anly occurs occasionally, ... if you do it sensibly (get all
the data ready .. {lock, get max, insert, release} the lock period is
tiny. and not really an issue.
There are enough assumptions here to make me again suggest you use
a vendor-specific route :-)
yes .. but the verndor specific code lives in the wrapper class ...
however I stll prefer my method (implement it as a 'library' wrapper
class on DBI with the appropriate (AUTO_INCREMENT, ROWID, oid, SEQUENCE
or whatevr) technique and a library::insert($sql,@args) method) and then
you just have to plug in the approprate wrapper between your app and
todays choice of DB and in theory the app can stay the same.
If it was that simple, someone would've done it -- DBI is a very
mature and competent module. Go check out Automatic Key or Sequence
Generation in the DBD driver feature summaries and you'll see why
it's hard to encapsulate this: they're all sooo different.
sure .. but with a wrapper that implements a vendor specific technique
and say a library_mysql, library_postgres etc I just plug in the
appropriate one between the app and DBI and it works for me ...its just
another layer of (plugable) abstraction. doesnt seem to slow it down
that much ...
(and if speed was that imoprtant I'd do it in C++[1] anyway :)
[1] .. well except I'm crap at it so it probably wouldnt work .. come to
think of it some of my perl doesnt work .. hmmm.
--
Robin Szemeti
The box said requires windows 95 or better
So I installed Linux!
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 09:23:16AM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Robin Szemeti wrote: now I am absolutely totally 100% certain that some web browser (and thats all it is) should *not* mess around with the way I view folders. I think that was a turning point for me and my judgement is probably clouded and No, no, no, that's _not_ all it is. IE is a set of distributed objects that between them handle those things that you might want to do related to HTTP and the rendering of HTML and assocciated technologies. That's MUCH more than just a browser. Once IE is installed on your system it becomes relatively simple to make an excel spreadsheet where some cell has a value that is the result of an HTTP request. This is not something AFAIK that Opera or Netscape do. I think Mozilla is trying to be more like this, but I never use it so I don't know. I do know that Mozilla appears to be just as 'lightweight' as IE. The tragedy is that all these great objects and classes tend to be only accessible from inside stuff like VBA or VB or MSVC++. Maybe Perl's DCOM bindings on Win32 are robust enough now that I can use perl to script the IE objects, I don't know. It's pretty easily manageable from within Python, last time that I looked, and it should work pretty well inside Perl, too. Mozilla will be nice and able to do all this, it's basically reimplemented COM as XPCOM for its own use. Which is all very well and good, but there's no easy way (yet) to get at XPCOM from outside of mozilla. ActiveState are working on this, though and there was a recent announcement about Perl/Python XPCOM integration being available as a preview release. Probably worth checking out... -Dom
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, you wrote: Ho ho, you should have heard the stick that support got from that little prank. Have you been sent a green CD, sir? We'd better send you an orange one to recover your system... It went on for *weeks*. umm .. I went for the 'format from the ground up' method and took it as an opportunity to rod the thing out ;) -- Robin Szemeti The box said requires windows 95 or better So I installed Linux!
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:21:35AM +0100, Roger Burton West wrote: On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:33:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: actually .. nutscrape under Linux annoys me when it insists on looking up a hostname no matter how hard you click on the stop button .. bad threading. Excellent reason to use a proxy. Junkbuster's good... Junkbuster++ I don't use it for busting junk, but because I can quickly and easily change its settings with a shell script, instead of having to fuck around in Netscape's menus to change proxies. I really just use it as a mere proxy, either going straight to the rest of the net or via ssh port forwarding to another proxy elsewhere. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: Good Accountants
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lucy McWilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hmmm, would it be bad form to reminisce about all things Manc on a London.pm list?! Given the number of people I've seen from Manchester Uni at the technical meetings, probably not... -- rob partington % [EMAIL PROTECTED] % http://lynx.browser.org/ Bsc(Hons) Computer Science University of Manchester Graduated 1995
Re: MySQL - Oracle wrapper/compat. libs
Paul Makepeace sent the following bits through the ether: If it was that simple, someone would've done it -- DBI is a very mature and competent module That's the problem. It seems like people aren't content with writing their own, slightly different, templating system, and have moved onto many different DBI abstraction layers to cope with all databases at the same time. The OO-DB persistence modules all have their own way of doing it too... Leon -- Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/ Iterative Software..http://yapc.org/Europe/ ... Did anyone see my lost carrier?
tube strike / may meeting postponed til 10th
well, it looks like the tube strike (8pm Weds 2nd May - 8pm Thurs 3rd May) is still on, and this will scupper our May social meeting plans rather. invoking the awesome powers delegated to me by davorg i pronounce that May's social meeting will be postponed until thursday May 10th, and if the tube strike happens to be called off lastminute like, we'll stick to the 10th so as to avoid any more confusion than usual. i'll update the website to reflect all this. http://www.thisislondon.com/dynamic/news/story.html?in_review_id=385519in_review_text_id=331603 http://www.tubehell.com/files/aslef.htm jo -- would everyone stop please taking the law into their own hands [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://state51.co.uk
Re: DBD::*-bind_param() ?
Paul Makepeace sent the following bits through the ether: Does anyone have any Real World experience with the speed-up (even hand-wavy vague anecdotes) of using bind values v. reparsing the SQL each time (for databases that support this obviously). Postgres and Oracle I'm particularly interested in. It helps a lot (and is also blindingly easy to benchmark yourself ;-). Using bind_columns also helps to speed up DBI, see: http://www.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/msg/perl-DBI-dev%3A503109 Leon -- Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/ Iterative Software..http://yapc.org/Europe/ ... Insert part M into notch C of part F
Re: Good Accountants
From: Chris Heathcote [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 27/4/01 11:08 am, Rob Partington wrote: about all things Manc on a London.pm list?! Given the number of people I've seen from Manchester Uni at the technical meetings, probably not... Y'see I was a Salford problem kid... I always knew Manchester was the centre of the Universe. Shame about the footballs teams though. Barbie.
Re: require Module; and filehandles
Jonathan Stowe wrote: And hide the test failures if you are running on SCO OpenServer or Unixware (see p5p passim) :) Does anyone still run SCO? Thought they'd all died. Cheers, Phi OpenSewer lip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: require Module; and filehandles
Ian Brayshaw wrote: it's the internal workings of require that stop the tie from being honoured. I presume that the require burrows down into the internals and isn't aware that it's a tie'd handle. As far as I can tell the code within the require call is unaware that this handle is an object. If you place an AUTOLOAD method in TrueHandle instead of the READ and READLINE methods, only DESTROY is called. Did you tell p5p about this? Perhaps they can do something about it, if they consider this a bug. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: MySQL - Oracle wrapper/compat. libs
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, you wrote: Paul Makepeace sent the following bits through the ether: If it was that simple, someone would've done it -- DBI is a very mature and competent module That's the problem. It seems like people aren't content with writing their own, slightly different, templating system, and have moved onto many different DBI abstraction layers to cope with all databases at the same time. The OO-DB persistence modules all have their own way of doing it too... I know .. I know .. damm programmers keep messing with things until they break them ... -- Robin Szemeti The box said requires windows 95 or better So I installed Linux!
Re: require Module; and filehandles
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:31:38PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: Jonathan Stowe wrote: And hide the test failures if you are running on SCO OpenServer or Unixware (see p5p passim) :) Does anyone still run SCO? Thought they'd all died. Well the last place I worked that ran OpenSewer did get closed down, though the fact it was running SCO wasn't a factor in it's demise :-) I know that Virgin Cosmetics run SCO (they run the same software we did) and I suspect there are many more pyramid selling^W^Wdirect marketing companies doing the same. So not all dead yet. Heck I even list OpenSewer amongst the products I'll work with. well somebody has too :-) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: require Module; and filehandles
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:32:24PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: Ian Brayshaw wrote: it's the internal workings of require that stop the tie from being honoured. I presume that the require burrows down into the internals and isn't aware that it's a tie'd handle. As far as I can tell the code within the require call is unaware that this handle is an object. If you place an AUTOLOAD method in TrueHandle instead of the READ and READLINE methods, only DESTROY is called. Did you tell p5p about this? Perhaps they can do something about it, if they consider this a bug. Having looked at the implementation yesterday, I pity the person who's *so* certain it's a bug that they try and fix it. It would not be an easy thing to do, I don't think. (Anyway, PerlIO layers will save us all!) .robin. -- Are we not drawn onward, we few, drawn onward to new era?
Re: Good Accountants
[ I sent this earlier on, but it doesn't seem to have gone through - I'm trying again using the address I subscribed with, but I'm sure I've used a non-subscription address before. Are postings subscriber only ..? ] On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:03:46AM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: OK, so I was just being nosy - as opposed to being in the position of offering a job - and noticed Alex is: a) younger than me (makes a change!), and b) went to UMIST. Hmmm, would it be bad form to reminisce about all things Manc on a London.pm list?! Absolutely. It'd be terribly inconsiderate. :hides his .signature. ~C. -- Chris Ball. Department of Computation, UMIST, England. [EMAIL PROTECTED] || http://printf.net/ finger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 10:11:40AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Ho ho, you should have heard the stick that support got from that little prank. Have you been sent a green CD, sir? We'd better send you an orange one to recover your system... It went on for *weeks*. I take it this pre-dated Matrix, or the red/blue pill jokes would have dragged it on for a few more... Martin
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 10:11:40AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Ho ho, you should have heard the stick that support got from that little prank. Have you been sent a green CD, sir? We'd better send you an orange one to recover your system... It went on for *weeks*. I take it this pre-dated Matrix, or the red/blue pill jokes would have dragged it on for a few more... umm 94?95? -- Robin Szemeti The box said requires windows 95 or better So I installed Linux!
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:59:53PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 10:11:40AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Ho ho, you should have heard the stick that support got from that little prank. Have you been sent a green CD, sir? We'd better send you an orange one to recover your system... It went on for *weeks*. I take it this pre-dated Matrix, or the red/blue pill jokes would have dragged it on for a few more... umm 94?95? More likely late 96 early 97. -Dom
Re: Good Accountants
Chris Ball wrote: Are postings subscriber only ..? ] As far as I know, yes; Jonathan Stowe has to hand-approve non-subscriber postings for them to make it to the list. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: Good Accountants
Philip Newton wrote: Chris Ball wrote: Are postings subscriber only ..? ] Subscriber not even, more like. I bet this email never makes it to the list for a start. I blame majordomo, when's that mailman thing getting here? Jonathan Peterson Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, 020 7383 6092 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:30:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Philip Newton wrote: Chris Ball wrote: Are postings subscriber only ..? ] Subscriber not even, more like. I bet this email never makes it to the list for a start. I blame majordomo, when's that mailman thing getting here? Well, it is based on Python, which might cause a few stirrings around here... -Dom
Re: Good Accountants
Dominic Mitchell wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:30:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: I blame majordomo, when's that mailman thing getting here? Well, it is based on Python, which might cause a few stirrings around here... You think the Perl community is proud of the majordomo code? Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: require Module; and filehandles
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:32:24PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: Ian Brayshaw wrote: it's the internal workings of require that stop the tie from being honoured. I presume that the require burrows down into the internals and isn't aware that it's a tie'd handle. As far as I can tell the code within the require call is unaware that this handle is an object. If you place an AUTOLOAD method in TrueHandle instead of the READ and READLINE methods, only DESTROY is called. Did you tell p5p about this? Perhaps they can do something about it, if they consider this a bug. Having looked at the implementation yesterday, I pity the person who's *so* certain it's a bug that they try and fix it. It would not be an easy thing to do, I don't think. (Anyway, PerlIO layers will save us all!) The report has been sent. Will see what comes of it. I suspect nothing, given the new PerlIO layers. Thanks for your help. Ian _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:03:46AM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: Hmmm, would it be bad form to reminisce about all things Manc on a London.pm list?! Given that I didn't learn perl until after I graduated, and Buffy isn't Manc-specific, then probably :-) Hazy tales of drunken nights in Jilly's drinking too much snakebite and falling over while trying to dance to the Sisters of Mercy probably won't interest most of london.pm Alex -- I ask for so little. Just let me rule you, and you can have everything that you want. - Jareth, Labyrinth
Re: MySQL - Oracle wrapper/compat. libs
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Robin Szemeti wrote: On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, someone who Robin's attrib to fscked up wrote: [side note: I did just see a bizarre thread in macosx-dev where one guy claimed his FFT code was executing faster in Java than C because its interpreter used runtime info to optimize it. Search on 'informal benchmarks'] uh huh .. but he's a Java programmer .. his C could be *REALLY* bad ;) .. favourite Java quote 'If javas garbage collector is damn good, how come the whole thing doesn't delete itself upon execution?' Don't see why this isn't possible. The idea is that you factor out *all* really unlikely cases (how you know this is based on past performance) and catch them all with some simple test. Then you (more expensively, but who cares since this happens only once in a blue moon) deal with it and work out exactly what was the problem. Another example, you could use a processor level exception to catch those pesky divide by zero errors (which is very expensive if it fires, but much much cheaper each time round than explictly checking it.) The advantage is that a compiler doesn't have this information lying around - you can't tell from the code how often cases come up; You need to profile at run time as you go. Sorry if this is all babble. I haven't had much sleep. Later. Mark. -- who *still* hasn't got round to getting a new .signature
Re: Good Accountants (?)
Hazy tales of drunken nights in Jilly's drinking too much snakebite and falling over while trying to dance to the Sisters of Mercy probably won't interest most of london.pm How can you fall over doing one step forward one step backward with your arms out for balance? Or was it the one where you hold you arms over your head in an impression of someone trying to get out of a too-tight jumper in slow motion? -- Jonathan Peterson Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, 020 7383 6092 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Migrating South (was Good Accountants)
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, will wrote: Alex page wrote: Hazy tales of drunken nights in Jilly's drinking too much snakebite and falling over while trying to dance to the Sisters of Mercy probably won't interest most of london.pm Cheap bottles of calsberg and rage against the machine... There isn't anywhre quite like it in london - sigh Ack - another one. On topic - how come all the decent jobs are dahn sarf? Off topic - have you tried Gossips, Slimelight or the 'Leccy Ballroom? L. Long dark hair, ankhs and beer - the Egyptions were the original goths.
Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:50:50PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: On topic - how come all the decent jobs are dahn sarf? Dunno. A lot of my coursemates ended up working for a Manchester-based IT company (Lantara?) doing network admin and web coding, but the pay wasn't great and I'd had a better offer from Nominet, hence my move to Oxfrod. Another friend ended up working for Oldham council doing C++ coding on contract, and seems fairly happy with his lot. Maybe it's because everyone in Manchester and Oop North is a horrible luddite who doesn't see the point of this new-fangled Interweb doofer... or, like the lecturers at UMIST, don't see why you need any languages other than FORTH, LISP and ADA... :-) Off topic - have you tried Gossips, Slimelight or the 'Leccy Ballroom? Gossips: Depends on the night. Tenebrae (once a month IIRC, Fridays) is a very good, well-populated goth night, more trad than anything else. Club Noir (every thursday) is a darkwave / synthpop / EBM night with piss-poor attendance and hence no atmoshphere. Malice (every? Tuesday) is another tradgoth night with some great playlists. The club itself is nice, but the bar is HELLISHLY expensive. Slimelight: Been a member for the last 3 or 4 years. The club venue is good, the music on the downstairs floor is OK, and the top venue is hard tecnho crap. I basically go there to see my friends rather than for any other reason. Going there tomorrow, actually - I'll be the one in black *g* Electric Ballroom: Only ever been to their Full Tilt night (every Friday). Far too much skate-punk, nu-metal and dance music for my liking, and the atmosphere is a lot more on-edge and unfriendly than most of the clubs I frequent. Still, if you're drunk enough not to care, then there's enough loose women in tight PVC to make it worth attending... Alex ObLondon.pmRef: The Bronze looks like a really good club! -- I ask for so little. Just let me rule you, and you can have everything that you want. - Jareth, Labyrinth
Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)
Slimelight: Been a member for the last 3 or 4 years. The club venue is good, the music on the downstairs floor is OK, and the top venue is hard tecnho crap. I basically go there to see my friends rather than for any other reason. Going there tomorrow, actually - I'll be the one in black *g* I thought it closed down, actually. Is it still bring your own booze? Do they still have a silly entrance exam? -- Jonathan Peterson Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, 020 7383 6092 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MySQL - Oracle wrapper/compat. libs
Mark Fowler sent the following bits through the ether: Don't see why this isn't possible Indeed. All you need to do this is: o bytecode and a virtual machine o some way of instrumenting said VM to save interesting info o ability to rewrite bytecode on fly OK, I give you Perl, the Perl debugger, and B::Generate. First one to optimise Perl code (maybe replacing bits of Perl with XS on the fly?) gets a pat on the back. Leon, sleeep -- Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/ Iterative Software..http://yapc.org/Europe/ ... I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:25:23PM +0100, Barbie wrote: I always knew Manchester was the centre of the Universe. Ahem. I suggest you go look at the entry for NY.pm at http://www.pm.org/groups/north_america.shtml :-) dha -- David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ Oh, the irony. - Abigail
Re: MySQL - Oracle wrapper/compat. libs
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Robin Szemeti wrote: On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, someone who Robin's attrib to fscked up wrote: [side note: I did just see a bizarre thread in macosx-dev where one guy claimed his FFT code was executing faster in Java than C because its interpreter used runtime info to optimize it. Search on 'informal benchmarks'] uh huh .. but he's a Java programmer .. his C could be *REALLY* bad ;) .. favourite Java quote 'If javas garbage collector is damn good, how come the whole thing doesn't delete itself upon execution?' Don't see why this isn't possible. The idea is that you factor out *all* really unlikely cases (how you know this is based on past performance) and catch them all with some simple test. Then you (more expensively, but who cares since this happens only once in a blue moon) deal with it and work out exactly what was the problem. my basic point was: that given that the FFT code uses similar technicques in both its C and Java variants the C variant will win hands down. if you're going to throw in completley new techniques then sure you could skew it the other way around .. but in the end (assuming that both codesets use similar basic principles) you will not beat the speed of C with anything other than hand optimised assembler. Now that is a fact. -- Robin Szemeti The box said requires windows 95 or better So I installed Linux!
Re: MySQL - Oracle wrapper/compat. libs
Friday, April 27, 2001, 1:09:05 PM, Robin Szemeti wrote: RS but in the end (assuming that both RS codesets use similar basic principles) you will not beat the speed of C RS with anything other than hand optimised assembler. Now that is a fact. Sounds much more like a function of the compiler to me. A really good Fortran compiler would turn out faster code than a bad c compiler. Granted, it is a *lot* easier to write a fast c compiler, since you're already halfway to assembler anyway. Now if you're just comparing any fully compiled language with java, you're absolutely right. -- mike
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:30:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: I blame majordomo, when's that mailman thing getting here? Actually that's my fault I said I'd look into it about a year ago (or so it feels). I'll do it this weekend. As to whether penderel gets used for this mailing list is something someone else would decide... Paul
Re: DBD::*-bind_param() ?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:45:40AM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote: It helps a lot (and is also blindingly easy to benchmark yourself ;-). Clearly says someone who's hasn't installed Oracle recently! [This is after all the point of community lists is to ask questions of others who've already done it rather than rejig the wheel...] Using bind_columns also helps to speed up DBI, see: http://www.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/msg/perl-DBI-dev%3A503109 Ah ha, great. Hmm, doesn't show bind_columns to be wildly better (although a bit). Hashref is obviously to be avoided in speed critical things. It seems as though the DBI layer is the rate limiting factor, looking at those figures. Oracle really is smokin'ly fast. Paul
Re: MySQL - Oracle wrapper/compat. libs
Friday, April 27, 2001, 2:20:21 PM, Paul Makepeace wrote: PM On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:51:38PM -0500, Mike Jarvis wrote: Sounds much more like a function of the compiler to me. A really good Fortran compiler would turn out faster code than a bad c compiler. PM But that isn't saying much. People tend not to use really bad things if PM they can help it. You haven't been to the same client sites I have if you believe that statement. It always amazes me what moronic things businesses will insist that you work with. Now if you're just comparing any fully compiled language with java, you're absolutely right. PM Hmm. PM http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/archive/macosx-dev/2001-April/013885.html Must you always drag facts into the argument? -- mike
A couple more bite the dust
Blueberry and Madge.web bit the dust in the last couple of days. If you know any good graphics people, HTML slaves, coders and so on with the right attitude, and Lord knows many of you are now acquainted with Reading Room's attitute, would y'all be so kind as to let me (or them directly ;-) know... Ta, Dave
Re: Good Accountants
David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yeah, but only testing it on one browser, ignoring the - what, 30%? - that don't use IE - that's kinda silly. On a random band's site that number is more like, per hits: 3959719 IE 662895 Netscape 10 the rest It's a pity, but it's life. (And Barclays lets you use NS) -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
Re: Good Accountants
Paul Makepeace [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:33:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: well .. it *does* handle them .. but ,,, errr .. sort of non cascading IYSWIM ... No it doesn't. It has almost no clue about stylesheets at all. Have you ever developed a CSS site for Netscape? And got it to work in anything like a sensible timeframe? Yes, I did. It needs tuning but it's pretty much there. *snip* Hmm, IE does stop almost immediately. THe Mac version in OS X requires a couple of presses but it's pretty well behaved otherwise (when it's not crashing or preventing me from copying the address line to the clipboard, bah). I've actually had more trouble getting Netscape to stop, YMMV, etc. NS's DNS handling is the suckiest. Blocks bloody everything. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
Re: Review of Data munging with Perl on Slashdot
Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Too late! Dave... [feeling smug] Enjoy it while it lasts... -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
Re: MySQL - Oracle wrapper/compat. libs
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 06:50:18PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote: OK, I give you Perl, the Perl debugger, and B::Generate. First one to optimise Perl code (maybe replacing bits of Perl with XS on the fly?) gets a pat on the back. I think NI-S is working on it; see recent perl6-language discussion about tying. -- I never thought I'd say this, but you're getting very strange. Thank God: I thought it was everybody else. - J-P Stacey
Re: Good Accountants (?)
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:50:15PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: How can you fall over doing one step forward one step backward with your arms out for balance? Or was it the one where you hold you arms over your head in an impression of someone trying to get out of a too-tight jumper in slow motion? Actually, in Manchester, one traditionally dances to the Sisters either with a four-way country reel, or the Can-Can. Sobriety is not an option :-) Alex -- I ask for so little. Just let me rule you, and you can have everything that you want. - Jareth, Labyrinth
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:55:06PM -0400, Alex Page wrote: Blimey, there's an Oxford perl mongers! You mean I'm not the only perl coder in this city?!? No. -- I find that anthropomorphism really doesn't help me with a place full of bugs. -- Megahal (trained on asr), 1998-11-06
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:00:40PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:55:06PM -0400, Alex Page wrote: Blimey, there's an Oxford perl mongers! You mean I'm not the only perl coder in this city?!? No. By which I mean, yes, you're not. And, of course, we've got Malcolm Beattie, who ranks as one of Perl's minor dieties. -- Will your long-winded speeches never end? What ails you that you keep on arguing? -- Job 16:3
Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:50:50PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: Long dark hair, ankhs and beer - the Egyptions were the original goths. Hmmph. Goths wouldn't know good beer if it grabbed them by the goolies and swung them round over its head whilst shouting I'm good beer, I'm good beer, and if you disagree I'll cut your head off and shit down your neck Anyway, what the Egyptians brewed was barely recognisable as beer. -- David Cantrell, Drunk, and blaming Earle off of (void).
Boozers in Dublin
Can any of you boozy reprobates recommend a boozer in Dublin for a geeky piss-up? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete PGP signature
Re: Boozers in Dublin
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:07:08PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: Can any of you boozy reprobates recommend a boozer in Dublin for a geeky piss-up? My first recommendation would be the Messrs. Maguire on Burgh Key is a nice place - very *big* pub (it's on three levels) and serves pretty good food. It reminds me a lot of the place opposite London Bridge tube station where we had the MJD Meet. The Oliver St. John Gogarty is a bit smaller, and I'm not sure about the food, but it's a good place to hang out, drink and listen to Irish folk. Possibly a good idea to move there after Messrs. Maguire, because it Maguire's gets bloody packed. As a last resort, anywhere in Temple Bar is worth looking at. -- In this talk, I would like to speculate a little, on ... the development of intelligent life. I shall take this to include the human race, even though much of its behaviour throughout history has been pretty stupid... - Stephen Hawking PGP signature
Re: Good Accountants
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:26:04PM -0400, David H. Adler wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:25:23PM +0100, Barbie wrote: I always knew Manchester was the centre of the Universe. Ahem. I suggest you go look at the entry for NY.pm at http://www.pm.org/groups/north_america.shtml :-) Yes yes, that's OK. We'll permit the colonials to have their little delusions. We all know that The Bronze is the centre of the universe. -- David Cantrell | Not particularly a Biffy fan at all | Gimme Willow Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: DBD::*-bind_param() ?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:16:32PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:45:40AM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote: It helps a lot (and is also blindingly easy to benchmark yourself ;-). Clearly says someone who's hasn't installed Oracle recently! Does anyone? Every time I've used Oracle, it's been installed by someone else who was supposedly an expert. Although I remain to be convinced that any of them really *was* an expert. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete
Re: DBD::*-bind_param() ?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:31:16PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:16:32PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:45:40AM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote: It helps a lot (and is also blindingly easy to benchmark yourself ;-). Clearly says someone who's hasn't installed Oracle recently! Does anyone? Every time I've used Oracle, it's been installed by someone else who was supposedly an expert. Although I remain to be convinced that any of them really *was* an expert. I installed it (i.e. clicked about on the nice Java buttons) and I'm definitely not an expert. I do know not to create stuff in the SYSTEM tablespace which is more than one DBA an ex-employer of mine once hired... Paul
Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 06:22:50PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: I thought it closed down, actually. Is it still bring your own booze? Do they still have a silly entrance exam? Hmm, I'm feeling like this is getting waaay too off-topic, especially while Dave the Goth is on sabbatical, so... No, sort of, no. Alex -- I ask for so little. Just let me rule you, and you can have everything that you want. - Jareth, Labyrinth
Re: DBD::*-bind_param() ?
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:16:32PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: Clearly says someone who's hasn't installed Oracle recently! You can install Oracle now? Wow, they must have really been fixing it of late. -- If the code and the comments disagree, then both are probably wrong. -- Norm Schryer
Re: DBD::*-bind_param() ?
On Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 12:09:49AM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:16:32PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: Clearly says someone who's hasn't installed Oracle recently! You can install Oracle now? Wow, they must have really been fixing it of late. OK, so I cheated, and copied the arsDigita instructions :-) http://www.arsdigita.com/ad-training/acs-install/oracle For those that haven't seen this, worth a read: http://philip.greenspun.com/arsdigita/litigation-story Scary stuff. Paul
Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 06:56:22PM -0400, Alex Page wrote: Hmm, I'm feeling like this is getting waaay too off-topic What is this off-topic you speak of? Is it a custom of your people? :-) -- David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ My theory is that his ignorance clouded his poor judgement. - Alice, in Dilbert's office
Re: Boozers in Dublin
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, you wrote: Can any of you boozy reprobates recommend a boozer in Dublin for a geeky piss-up? thinks... umm .. we sent some of our blokes to Dublin and theres a pub with a webcam and they used to all go in and wave at as at exactly 12:30 so we could see them when we were in birmingham .. it was sorta nice. err .. no .. I lied .. it was Belfast ... you could commute? cue local info from Tony -- Robin Szemeti The box said requires windows 95 or better So I installed Linux!
Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:47:47PM -0400, David H. Adler wrote: On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 06:56:22PM -0400, Alex Page wrote: Hmm, I'm feeling like this is getting waaay too off-topic What is this off-topic you speak of? Is it a custom of your people? Yeah... I'm on this mailing list called goats-fans, for fans of Goats: the Comic Strip (http://www.goats.com - NOW!), and flaming and off-topic posting leads to the moderators kicking your arse severly. Alex -- I ask for so little. Just let me rule you, and you can have everything that you want. - Jareth, Labyrinth
Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)
On Sat, 28 Apr 2001, you wrote: What is this off-topic you speak of? Is it a custom of your people? Yeah... I'm on this mailing list called goats-fans, for fans of Goats: the Comic Strip (http://www.goats.com - NOW!), and flaming and off-topic posting leads to the moderators kicking your arse severly. Excellent! ... Men, I believe we have a new mission. How do we sign up for htis so-called 'on topic' list ? -- Robin Szemeti The box said requires windows 95 or better So I installed Linux!
