Re: putting escape characters in files
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 10:25:00PM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote: If your terminal has flow control enabled it will eat ^Q and ^S for you. stty -ixon removes this problem. But then how do you pause that long ls listing when your less,more,pg,sed,awkperl binaries are all fscked? :-) -Dom
Re: putting escape characters in files
Dominic Mitchell wrote: On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 10:25:00PM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote: If your terminal has flow control enabled it will eat ^Q and ^S for you. stty -ixon removes this problem. But then how do you pause that long ls listing when your less,more,pg,sed,awkperl binaries are all fscked? :-) Use dd with the count= option for the first page, and with count= and skip= for subsequent pages :) Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: putting escape characters in files
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 11:10:13AM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: Dominic Mitchell wrote: On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 10:25:00PM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote: If your terminal has flow control enabled it will eat ^Q and ^S for you. stty -ixon removes this problem. But then how do you pause that long ls listing when your less,more,pg,sed,awkperl binaries are all fscked? :-) Use dd with the count= option for the first page, and with count= and skip= for subsequent pages :) You're right, but assuming you can get into a bourne shell, you can still do things like write cat(1) in sh, as well. Although it'd be hard to control without ^S and ^Q, unless you have a modern /bin/sh with the arithmetic stuff to count lines with. Otherwise you'd have to use expr(1), which is also probably busted. We now return you to your regularly scheduled comp.unix.buffy debate... -Dom
Re: putting escape characters in files
Dominic Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 10:25:00PM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote: If your terminal has flow control enabled it will eat ^Q and ^S for you. stty -ixon removes this problem. But then how do you pause that long ls listing when your less,more,pg,sed,awkperl binaries are all fscked? :-) Stallman used to have a long rant about ^S/^Q that shipped with the emacs source. Wonder if it's still there. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
Re: putting escape characters in files
Dominic Mitchell wrote: assuming you can get into a bourne shell, you can still do things like write cat(1) in sh, as well. This is not going to help you pause output. Although it'd be hard to control without ^S and ^Q, ...which was what the original post was all about. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: putting escape characters in files
On Thu, 10 May 2001 22:25:00 +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote: (Someone has a quote about the only safe thing to send down a serial line being a break, because emacs interprets every character) You mean this? On a normal ascii line, the only safe condition to detect is a 'BREAK' - everything else having been assigned functions by Gnu EMACS. -- Tarl Neustaedter I find that having an enormous sig file is extremely useful on occasions like this. -- Peter Haworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] The network had broken because someone had snipped out 40 cm of cable, apparently to tie something together. -- Alex McLean
Re: putting escape characters in files
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 11:41:20AM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: Dominic Mitchell wrote: assuming you can get into a bourne shell, you can still do things like write cat(1) in sh, as well. This is not going to help you pause output. Although it'd be hard to control without ^S and ^Q, ...which was what the original post was all about. No, you'd need the maths operators that came with later shells, so you could work out lines. Dammit, I'm going to have to write shmore now. #!/bin/sh lineno=1 while read line do echo $line lineno=$((lineno+1)) if [ $(($lineno % 24)) = 0 ] ; then echo -n -- more -- read ans /dev/tty test $ans = q exit 0 fi done -Dom
Re: putting escape characters in files
On Fri, 11 May 2001, Dominic Mitchell wrote: On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 11:41:20AM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: Dominic Mitchell wrote: assuming you can get into a bourne shell, you can still do things like write cat(1) in sh, as well. This is not going to help you pause output. Although it'd be hard to control without ^S and ^Q, ...which was what the original post was all about. No, you'd need the maths operators that came with later shells, so you could work out lines. Dammit, I'm going to have to write shmore now. #!/bin/sh lineno=1 while read line do echo $line lineno=$((lineno+1)) if [ $(($lineno % 24)) = 0 ] ; then echo -n -- more -- read ans /dev/tty test $ans = q exit 0 fi done That breaks if the line is longer than the width of your screen. MBM -- Matthew Byng-Maddick [EMAIL PROTECTED] +44 20 8980 5714 (Home) http://colondot.net/ +44 7956 613942 (Mobile) Under any conditions, anywhere, whatever you are doing, there is some ordinance under which you can be booked. -- Robert D. Sprecht, Rand Corp.
Re: putting escape characters in files
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 11:14:08AM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: On Fri, 11 May 2001, Dominic Mitchell wrote: On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 11:41:20AM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: Dominic Mitchell wrote: assuming you can get into a bourne shell, you can still do things like write cat(1) in sh, as well. This is not going to help you pause output. Although it'd be hard to control without ^S and ^Q, ...which was what the original post was all about. No, you'd need the maths operators that came with later shells, so you could work out lines. Dammit, I'm going to have to write shmore now. #!/bin/sh lineno=1 while read line do echo $line lineno=$((lineno+1)) if [ $(($lineno % 24)) = 0 ] ; then echo -n -- more -- read ans /dev/tty test $ans = q exit 0 fi done That breaks if the line is longer than the width of your screen. Oh dear. -Dom
Re: putting escape characters in files
Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: That breaks if the line is longer than the width of your screen. So do a lot of cheap pager routines. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: putting escape characters in files
At 10:32 11/05/01 +0100, you wrote: Dominic Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 10:25:00PM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote: If your terminal has flow control enabled it will eat ^Q and ^S for you. stty -ixon removes this problem. But then how do you pause that long ls listing when your less,more,pg,sed,awkperl binaries are all fscked? :-) Stallman used to have a long rant about ^S/^Q that shipped with the emacs source. Wonder if it's still there. You know, from the outside, Unix looks so well designed and clean and modern... -- Jonathan Peterson Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, 020 7383 6092 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: putting escape characters in files
On or about Fri, May 11, 2001 at 10:48:41AM +0100, Jonathan Peterson typed: You know, from the outside, Unix looks so well designed and clean and modern... From the outside, Windows looks as if it works. ObRant: computers and OSes in their current state are not consumer devices. They're not sufficiently reliable or intuitive. Bad marketing has made people think they need the things; most of them are wrong... Roger
Re: putting escape characters in files
* at 11/05 11:32 +0100 Roger Burton West said: On or about Fri, May 11, 2001 at 10:48:41AM +0100, Jonathan Peterson typed: You know, from the outside, Unix looks so well designed and clean and modern... From the outside, Windows looks as if it works. ObRant: computers and OSes in their current state are not consumer devices. They're not sufficiently reliable or intuitive. Bad marketing has made people think they need the things; most of them are wrong... you just have to see that people have trouble with palm's sometimes and they are so much more simple to realise that your average fully fledged computer in not a consumer device. but then any reasonably flexible multi-purpose device is always going to have a hard time being a consumer device as by it's nature it's complex and trying to make complex things appear simple is very very hard. OTOH, if it was simple it's be no fun :) [1] struan [1] usual caveats regarding definition of fun apply
Re: putting escape characters in files
Roger Burton West [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ObRant: computers and OSes in their current state are not consumer devices. They're not sufficiently reliable or intuitive. Bad marketing has made people think they need the things; most of them are wrong... OK, so what does it take? For me, the sorts of things that I _think_ IPv6 has should go a long way. Ubiquitous encryption and authentication will breed the real next generation of applicances. Or something. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
Re: putting escape characters in files
On or about Fri, May 11, 2001 at 11:37:20AM +0100, Struan Donald typed: but then any reasonably flexible multi-purpose device is always going to have a hard time being a consumer device as by it's nature it's complex and trying to make complex things appear simple is very very hard. Yes. Things like the Amstrad word-processor are what people really want. (Just ask any secretary who was forced to upgrade from one to a PC.) R
Re: putting escape characters in files
On or about Fri, May 11, 2001 at 11:32:33AM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson typed: Roger Burton West [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ObRant: computers and OSes in their current state are not consumer devices. They're not sufficiently reliable or intuitive. Bad marketing has made people think they need the things; most of them are wrong... OK, so what does it take? While using a computer is a skill considered harder than using a washing machine or mowing a lawn, they're not ready. Putting pretty interfaces on existing unstable systems does not help to make them simpler... R
Re: putting escape characters in files
At 11:37 11/05/01 +0100, you wrote: but then any reasonably flexible multi-purpose device is always going to have a hard time being a consumer device as by it's nature it's complex and trying to make complex things appear simple is very very hard. I can never work out if life is getting simpler or more complex. Computers seem very complex, and an application (lets say, a spreadsheet) appears to have thousands of features and whatnot that make the business of creating a Profit/Loss sheet far more complex than it ever was (or by implication ought to be). But this replaced a system of copybooks, ledgers, accounting systems and procedures that was also very complex. Not only that, but all the actual arithmetic had to be done (by the human) as well. So the accountant of 1890 needed to do mental arithmetic very fast and accurately (and in L.S.D.), and had to know and understand a bookshelf full of different ledgers, each with different columns, tables and and systems. And they had to work with near 100% accuracy, because of the difficulty of erasing or re-doing work. I think the difference is not that computers (or cars, or whatever) are that much more complex than what went before them. The difference is: 1. People are expected to understand and deal with all these things, not to specialise in one. Today, we are expected to be able to drive a car and use a spreadsheet, and then paint the spare room. The Victorian accountant most likely would not have known how to ride, certainly not have known how to look after a horse. They would not have done their own cooking, even, would not be responsible for repairing or even organising repairs to their rented accomodation, etc etc. 2. The rate of change is very fast. The Victorian's system of accountancy, while more complex, would have been what he grew up with, and would not have changed radically over his life (assuming he retired prior to the 1940's). Jon I see a topic far in the distance and rapidly dwindling... -- Jonathan Peterson Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, 020 7383 6092 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: putting escape characters in files
Roger Burton West [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Putting pretty interfaces on existing unstable systems does not help to make them simpler... That's part of it. Landing a thudding great book of what the thing _can_ do, rather than a cookbook of what you _want_ it to do is very offputting. There's a computer version of the Poke'mon card game that leads you through learning the rules very gently and very well. That's the sort of thing we need for gadgets...start off with stop and play and then gently lead you through to the hard stuff. Or make it like the Tivo - it just works. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
Re: putting escape characters in files
* at 11/05 11:49 +0100 Dave Hodgkinson said: Roger Burton West [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Putting pretty interfaces on existing unstable systems does not help to make them simpler... That's part of it. Landing a thudding great book of what the thing _can_ do, rather than a cookbook of what you _want_ it to do is very offputting. but then what you want to do differs greatly for different people so instead of one book with lots of information you have to sift through you get lots of books you have to sift through to find the right one. I imagine most computer neophytes find their first visit to the computer section of any large bookshop pretty damn confusing to start with. plus you're assuming people know what they want to do, or even what they can do. The fact that you could have _two_ windows open at once was a revelation to a friends dad recently. There is a very real argument for devices that do one thing and one thing only but do it in a very simple way without all the flimflam that accompanies most modern computers. Donald Norman has quite a few good books on this. Or make it like the Tivo - it just works. which is kind of a proof of the one thing very well point. struan
Re: putting escape characters in files
Struan Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is a very real argument for devices that do one thing and one thing only but do it in a very simple way without all the flimflam that accompanies most modern computers. Donald Norman has quite a few good books on this. Agreed, but they MUST talk to each other. Securely and knowingly. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
Re: putting escape characters in files
* at 11/05 12:07 +0100 Dave Hodgkinson said: Struan Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is a very real argument for devices that do one thing and one thing only but do it in a very simple way without all the flimflam that accompanies most modern computers. Donald Norman has quite a few good books on this. Agreed, but they MUST talk to each other. Securely and knowingly. see Donald Norman. he talks about all this stuff. struan
Tie::Regex::Hash
Sorry to drag us back on topic, but I thought you might like to tsee this
which I just knocked up for someone on perlmonks.
package Tie::Hash::Regex;
use strict;
use vars qw($VERSION @ISA @EXPORT @EXPORT_OK);
require Exporter;
require Tie::Hash;
@ISA = qw(Exporter Tie::StdHash);
@EXPORT = qw();
@EXPORT_OK =();
$VERSION = '0.01';
sub FETCH {
my $self = shift;
my $key = shift;
return $self-{$key} if exists $self-{$key};
foreach (keys %$self) {
return $self-{$_} if /$key/;
}
return;
}
1;
You use it like this:
use Tie::Hash::Regex
my %hash;
tie %hash, 'Tie::Hash::Regex';
$hash{key} = 'one';
$hash{stuff} = 'two';
print $hash{key}\n; # prints 'one'
print $hash{'^s'}\n; # prints 'two'
print $hash{'y'}\n; # prints 'one'
print $hash{'.*'}\n; # prints 'two'
The last is, of course, of limited use as it just matches the first key it
finds in the hash.
Share and Enjoy,
Dave...
The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.
(OT) constrained walk
As was discussed (after Greg and the steak posse had left last night), there may be a second constrained walk (following on from the epic London Walk, somewhat documented on http://husk.org/lndn/walk/), probably around the stations above the Circle Line, sometime in the next two or three weeks. I estimate it'd be between six and eight hours of walking, but as we've now done one walk starting at sunrise, I thought it'd be fine to start it a little later in the day; there's probably going to be debate about where to start and which direction to walk in too. To save London.pm from this distraction, I've (finally, cheers Evil) set up the long threatened crisps mailing list for potential walkers; email [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body subscribe crisps to join, if you're interested in taking part in this or other walks. -- :: paul :: how fickle fate can be
Re: putting escape characters in files
At 10:05 AM 2001.05.11 +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 10:25:00PM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote: If your terminal has flow control enabled it will eat ^Q and ^S for you. stty -ixon removes this problem. But then how do you pause that long ls listing when your less,more,pg,sed,awkperl binaries are all fscked? :-) How about piping to lp then? Load up enough paper and you can pause as long as you'd like... ;) -- Chris Devers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: see attachment
At 10:06 PM 2001.05.09 +0100, Grep wrote: well i had 15 minutes to spare so i decided to do this ... Lessee... Let's make a film, a travel film, involving Damien-esque programming as a plot device. We can make PIMF (Perl is my Film) tshirts to promote it, even if Randal doesn't like them. It will involve many pub scenes, Viking type raids on unsuspecting other groups (webboards might not work, but something to that effect). In homage to great cinema epic Ishtar, there will be camel scenes (but at the zoo), after which the camel will be served as supper, followed by dinner table cameos by Dr Who Willow (on a pony), who will show how to prepare for the coming Y2K crisis. That covers most of 'em. Drink up! -- Chris Devers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
New Mongers' Script Archive Update
I am posting an update of what's going on with this to the list because, erm, dave told me to. Right, this is what has happened/will happen: At the technical meeting it was decided that we need a developers site; This site should be used primarily to disseminate information about the state of each part of the NMS Archive Project. The proposed format for this site is that for each of the sections will have a page that will have a) a short description of the section b) a summary of the current state of affairs c) a list of *current* files d) a weblog of the recent changes e) a pumpking The sections will be * the website itself * the unix install * the windows install * the mac install * one for each script The front page will have, in addition to a link to each of the pages, a quick summary of the state of affairs of the project and a collection of the most recent entries from all the weblogs The technology to do all of this will be quick and dirty. The reasoning for this is simple: 1) Let's do it quickly, and we can refactor later. 2) The code we're using isn't that complicated and something like CVS would probably be an overkill. Likewise for a proper bugzilla system. 3) All changes should be go through the pumpking for each of the individual sections so this shouldn't be a problem People that have agreed to be pumpkings so far: Mark Fowler (that's me) agreed to be website pumpking Simon Batistoni agreed to be windows install pumpking. Paul Mison agreed to be mac install pumpking If you agreed to write a script, you're pumpking for that (note that pumpkings can hand the responsibility to other people if they want) The developers website is working now, and it's just a matter of slapping in the code for listing files, editing the weblogs, and um the sections. Shouldn't take that long then ;-) The trial website should be up in the next week or so[1] and I'll post more info to the list once it's done. Later. Mark. NRN. [1] Damn nice weather making me want to sit in the sun. -- dammit jim I'm a doctor not a signature line
Re: putting escape characters in files
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 11:32:15AM +0100, Roger Burton West wrote: ObRant: computers and OSes in their current state are not consumer devices. ObRantContinuation: It goes a little further than that. Cars are now consumer devices; but if you were deploying a fleet of new company vans, you wouldn't expect the random office guy who'd read a dummies book to maintain them - you'd hire a mechanic. Martin
Re: (OT) constrained walk
Paul Mison wrote: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] A message that you sent could not be delivered to all of its recipients. The following address(es) failed: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: all relevant MX records point to non-existent hosts: it appears that the DNS operator for this domain has installed an invalid MX record with an IP address instead of a domain name on the right hand side Looks like it: $ dig @ns.stub.org husk.org axfr ; DiG 8.2 @ns.stub.org husk.org axfr ; (1 server found) $ORIGIN husk.org. @ 1D IN SOA @ root.vx-labs.org. ( 2001020100 ; serial 8H ; refresh 4H ; retry 10H ; expiry 1D ); minimum 1D IN NSns.vx-labs.org. 1D IN NSns.stub.org. 1D IN A 195.149.50.61 1D IN MX5 195.149.50.61. * 1D IN A 195.149.50.61 @ 1D IN SOA @ root.vx-labs.org. ( 2001020100 ; serial 8H ; refresh 4H ; retry 10H ; expiry 1D ); minimum ;; Received 7 answers (7 records). ;; FROM: penderel to SERVER: 193.243.252.29 ;; WHEN: Fri May 11 15:47:41 2001 I suggest you shoot the DNS operator for this domain and hire a new one :) I suppose that in the meantime I'll have to forge a subscription with `telnet husk.org smtp` if my MUA won't send to it. Cheers, Philip
Re: putting escape characters in files
At 15:42 11/05/01 +0100, you wrote: It goes a little further than that. Cars are now consumer devices; but if you were deploying a fleet of new company vans, you wouldn't expect the random office guy who'd read a dummies book to maintain them - you'd hire a mechanic. Hmmm.. You're suggesting that the mechanic is a well trained engineer who knows all about cars, while companies are trying to get away with using pimply faced youths who've just read a book or got an MCP to maintain computers on the cheap. Your average mechanic follows instructions on a computer that tells him what part number to use to replace the faulty item. The act of replacing simply involves known what size socket wrench to use, and remembering where to attach the wires and hoses afterwards. The average bottom rung mechanic knows as much about cars as the average bottom rung tech support guy knows about computers. The difference is that the mechanic can't get a job without his NVQ, whereas the PFY can get a job without his MCP. -- Jonathan Peterson Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, 020 7383 6092 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (OT) constrained walk
Paul Mison wrote: there may be a second constrained walk What's a constrained walk? Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: (OT) constrained walk
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 05:17:10PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: Paul Mison wrote: there may be a second constrained walk What's a constrained walk? About 5 yards. ;) Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: (OT) constrained walk
On 11/05/2001 at 15:55 +0100, Philip Newton wrote: Paul Mison wrote: email [EMAIL PROTECTED] invalid MX record My DNS service provider (waves at the happy people, they know who they are) are endevouring to fix this at the moment. Try again on Monday when I'll put a bit more effort into fixing this. I see you managed to subscribe anyway; I ph34r y0ur l33t 5M7P sk1llz. -- :: paul :: how fickle fate can be
Monitors
How many things do you have on top of your monitor? -Dom
Re: putting escape characters in files
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:05:21PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: The average bottom rung mechanic knows as much about cars as the average bottom rung tech support guy knows about computers. Okay. I know very little of the vehicle maintenance industry, so it was a poor choice of analogy, but I hold to the rough point - there are too many organisations (notably schools, as well as companies) pushing excessive technical responsibilities onto unqualified and inexperienced staff. It's not fair on (a) the staff, (b) the rest of the organisation (c) others affected through poor security (private/personal information leakage, network abuse...) ...and arguably (d) unemployed BOFHs. Martin
Re: Monitors
On Fri, 11 May 2001, Dominic Mitchell wrote: How many things do you have on top of your monitor? monitor type=flatscreen None ;-) / Why, btw? L. This cheese intentionally left rank.
Re: (OT) constrained walk
On 11/05/2001 at 16:17 +0100, Philip Newton wrote: Paul Mison wrote: there may be a second constrained walk What's a constrained walk? This is covered in London Walking by Simon Pope (which is where celia read about it, which prompted me and Robin to organise it); his idea was to walk from sunrise to sunset, east to west, along a single row of the A-Z (the proper edition, with the expanded map of Central London in the middle). We [0] took his idea, moved the time of year (he did it in December, so it was only about 9 hours; we did it in March, so it was more like 12), turned it around so it was north to south, and managed to get a lot more people involved. Amazingly, it seemed to be fun, so we're doing it again. This time, the constraint is the route; we'll be trying to walk around the Circle line, either trying to follow it as closely as possible or just walking between the stations. (We're deciding that on crisps, when it works.) -- :: paul :: how fickle fate can be
Re: (OT) constrained walk
Paul Mison wrote: I see you managed to subscribe anyway; I ph34r y0ur l33t 5M7P sk1llz. Thanks. They do come in handy quite often. (For example, when verifying an open relay or seeing whether it anonymises or not.) I remember the person who taught me SMTP; I'm grateful to him. (Though I suppose I could have taught myself from the RFC without too much pain; after all, that's how I learned to speak POP3.) Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: Monitors
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:22:04PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: How many things do you have on top of your monitor? Deja vu, I had this thread elsewhere recently (although it was 'things behind'...) Here I have nowt, what with it being a laptop and all. At home, er... more monitors? http://pkl.net/~martin/room-bredroll.jpg Old picture. And, er, not me in it. The room's mostly still there though. Martin
Re: (OT) constrained walk
on 11/5/01 4:35 pm, Paul Mison wrote: This time, the constraint is the route; we'll be trying to walk around the Circle line, either trying to follow it as closely as possible or just walking between the stations. (We're deciding that on crisps, when it works.) Has anyone got a proper lundun map with tube lines indicated... that would be just chops. c. -- every day, computers are making people easier to use http://www.unorthodoxstyles.com
Re: (OT) constrained walk
On Fri, 11 May 2001, Philip Newton wrote: Paul Mison wrote: I see you managed to subscribe anyway; I ph34r y0ur l33t 5M7P sk1llz. Thanks. They do come in handy quite often. (For example, when verifying an open relay or seeing whether it anonymises or not.) I remember the person who taught me SMTP; I'm grateful to him. (Though I suppose I could have taught myself from the RFC without too much pain; after all, that's how I learned to speak POP3.) I don't see what's so difficult about learning from the RFC. :) However, the number of people (Bloated Goats, Sexchange) who manage to get it wrong still surprises me. And the spamware that carries on blindly even though it gets errors MBM -- Matthew Byng-Maddick [EMAIL PROTECTED] +44 20 8980 5714 (Home) http://colondot.net/ +44 7956 613942 (Mobile) Under any conditions, anywhere, whatever you are doing, there is some ordinance under which you can be booked. -- Robert D. Sprecht, Rand Corp.
Re: Monitors
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:33:42PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: On Fri, 11 May 2001, Dominic Mitchell wrote: How many things do you have on top of your monitor? monitor type=flatscreen None ;-) / Boring! You should be able to manage some clip on furry animals. For reference, I have 8 Kinder egg toys, 4 of which are Giraffes. Paul Mison stated that he had nothing on his monitor, but did confess to having a squealing monkey under his monitor (very bofh-ish, I feel). Why, btw? Because it's Friday Afternoon[tm]. And I want to know. -Dom
Re: Monitors
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:22:04PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: How many things do you have on top of your monitor? I have a solitary copy of a japanese netsuke depicting a cat. My machine is name 'neko', which is japanese for cat. -- Niklas Nordebo -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- +447966251290 The day is seven hours and fifteen minutes old, and already it's crippled with the weight of my evasions, deceit, and downright lies
Re: Monitors
Dominic Mitchell wrote: How many things do you have on top of your monitor? Depends on the day. Today, two things: a goose called Lucy[1] (a Ty Beanie Baby) and a green duck called Martin. Both are plush toys. I generally bring one of my small stuffed toys to work, but sometimes I forget to take it out of my coat pocket, or forget to bring it along in the first place. And occasionally, I bring two at once. For example, the day before yesterday I had two Beanie Baby stuffed geese (of a different design than Lucy) called Wendy and Henry[2] who are married to one another. (Lucy and Martin are just friends. Maybe not even that; they're still a bit cautious about the relationship.) Cheers, Philip [1] Though her tag spells her name Loosy. [2] Their name tags say Honks; we decided that's their last name. Wendy, by the way, was bought in London while I was at yapc::Europe::19100, as a present for my wife. -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: (OT) constrained walk
On Fri, 11 May 2001, Chris Heathcote wrote: on 11/5/01 4:35 pm, Paul Mison wrote: This time, the constraint is the route; we'll be trying to walk around the Circle line, either trying to follow it as closely as possible or just walking between the stations. (We're deciding that on crisps, when it works.) Has anyone got a proper lundun map with tube lines indicated... that would be just chops. There are machines in the tube that sell them. MBM -- Matthew Byng-Maddick [EMAIL PROTECTED] +44 20 8980 5714 (Home) http://colondot.net/ +44 7956 613942 (Mobile) Under any conditions, anywhere, whatever you are doing, there is some ordinance under which you can be booked. -- Robert D. Sprecht, Rand Corp.
Re: putting escape characters in files
At 16:31 11/05/01 +0100, you wrote: there are too many organisations (notably schools, as well as companies) pushing excessive technical responsibilities onto unqualified and inexperienced staff. That's actually a really good point (about the schools). You hear about all these 'computers for schools' initiatives, but very rarely do you hear about 'CS teachers for schools'. It usually means that some maths teach somewhere gets another 2 lessons per week and a small LAN to look after. Martin -- Jonathan Peterson Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, 020 7383 6092 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Monitors
Dominic Mitchell wrote: For reference, I have 8 Kinder egg toys, 4 of which are Giraffes. Ah. At home I also have Kinder egg toys on my monitor. Three of them to be precise. I think they're all cars. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Re: Monitors
Philip Newton wrote: I generally bring one of my small stuffed toys to work ^ or my wife's. She has me than I. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
RE: Monitors
How many things do you have on top of your monitor? Currently none. But at Torrington I had 8 items ( I think ) including marzipan models of Bagpuss (complete with Organ Mouse) and Tux. They have yet to migrate to my job. Rob --- Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of IBNet Plc. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version.
Re: Monitors
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 05:43:29PM +0200, Niklas Nordebo wrote: On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:22:04PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: How many things do you have on top of your monitor? I have a solitary copy of a japanese netsuke depicting a cat. My machine is name 'neko', which is japanese for cat. That's cute! Do you have oneko installed to chase your mouse cursor as well? -Dom
Schroedingers Computer
http://www.nature.com/nsu/010503/010503-6.html So far, demonstrations of quantum computing have been limited to the most rudimentary of calculations, involving only two or three bits of information. I'm sure Damian could them straight on that one ;-P Barbie
Re: Monitors
On Fri, 11 May 2001, Dominic Mitchell wrote: How many things do you have on top of your monitor? Hmm. I usually have a technic lego bike (thanks secret santa.) Also floating around in my geek sphere at the moment is: - A wind up clockwork chick (as in 'chicken,' not as in 'woman') - Coffee Mug (extra large) Empty Caffinated Mints boxes. - A Beach ball - A copy of 'e' and the 'bofh' books - Various O'Reilly books (mostly blue) and a Manning Book (the other one is on the main bookshelf) - A SPACED DVD, A copy of the 'Worms World Party' computer game. - A large card that has 'Horror' printed on one side and 'Beauty' on the other. - Simpsons' daily desk calendar - One arm of my chair (that I removed because it was annoying me and now use as a book holder) - Palms (multiple,) Laptop, flash memory and other computer hardware items (such as a PCMICA network card that I borrowed off of leon and then never returned.) At home on top of my monitor is a Mars Bar that I was presented for 'putting up the most from another perl monger while they were in another country' (I don't eat chocolate.) Later. Mark.
Re: Monitors
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 05:48:40PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: Philip Newton wrote: I generally bring one of my small stuffed toys to work ^ or my wife's. She has me than I. Eeek, I have more than my SO and I am wondering if in fact my population of small giraffes is diminishing... -Dom (suspicious)
Re: Monitors
Currently just Tux, who thankfully doesn't get used as Nerf gun target practice since leaving tw2. Barbie.
Re: Monitors
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:33:42PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: How many things do you have on top of your monitor? A dust puppy fluffy toy, a copy of Network Progamming with Perl and a flock of post it notes. monitor type=flatscreen None ;-) / monitor type=21inch deskspace=minimal / Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Monitors
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:59:13PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote: From: Dominic Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 4:22 PM How many things do you have on top of your monitor? Here - none (not sure why my mini-Tux never made it to Acxiom) At home - many things. But boring things like network hubs or CD backups or boot disks. And occasionally a (real) cat. You heard that's how sleepycat software got their name - it was the first thing that they saw when they looked around their office. :-) -Dom
Re: Monitors
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:52:15PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: My machine is name 'neko', which is japanese for cat. That's cute! Do you have oneko installed to chase your mouse cursor as well? I do now :) Hadn't thought of it, of course I should have a copy of neko installed on neko. -- Niklas Nordebo -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- +447966251290 The day is seven hours and fifteen minutes old, and already it's crippled with the weight of my evasions, deceit, and downright lies
RE: (OT) constrained walk
Has anyone got a proper lundun map with tube lines indicated... that would be just chops. just posted to the crisps list, http://www.sitw.f2s.com/london/maps/geog.gif It's not a proper london map, and the resolution is terrible, but I'm sure a grafix wizard could do an overlay job
Re: Monitors
On Fri, 11 May 2001, Dominic Mitchell wrote: On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:33:42PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: On Fri, 11 May 2001, Dominic Mitchell wrote: How many things do you have on top of your monitor? monitor type=flatscreen None ;-) / Boring! You should be able to manage some clip on furry animals. A cow-orker did selotape a sympathetic Wildlife bar to the screen, but she's not very computer savvy and I had to put it in the DNA fridge to un-thaw. I have a furry orangutan climbing an inflatable Big Ben. L. Cambridge Beer Festival, 21-26 May, Jessus Green www.camra.org.uk/cambridge
Re: Monitors
Under and around my SGI flatscreen I have: SGI Tux waiyip Tux beanie-baby penguin fluffy dust-puppy wooden camel (known as YouBastard after Pratchett) fluffy santa beanie-baby monkey BB squid (it's a sex thing) fluffy octopus (aka Admiral Akbar) plush baloo Extreme Networks flag Extreme baseball cap and t-shirt Lara Croft t-shirt Veritas baseball cap Cowboy hat Cheers, Mike -- Mike Wyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] || Woof? http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~mw || Gaspode the Wonder Dog Work: +44 020 7594 8440|| Mobile: +44 07879 697119|| ICQ: 43922064
Re: Monitors
On Fri, 11 May 2001, Philip Newton wrote: Dominic Mitchell wrote: How many things do you have on top of your monitor? Depends on the day. Today, two things: a goose called Lucy[1] ! L. Blessed are the cheesegraters.
Re: (OT) constrained walk
On Fri, 11 May 2001, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: On Fri, 11 May 2001, Chris Heathcote wrote: Has anyone got a proper lundun map with tube lines indicated... that would be just chops. There are machines in the tube that sell them. I have a large collection of these due to always forgetting to take mine with me whenever I go to Nodnol and having to buy another one. L. This cheese intentionally left rank.
Re: Monitors
On Fri, 11 May 2001, Mark Fowler wrote: (I don't eat chocolate.) *shock* L. Do spiders make gravy...?
101 uses for an inflatable Tux
On Fri, 11 May 2001, Barbie wrote: Currently just Tux, who thankfully doesn't get used as Nerf gun target practice since leaving tw2. Heh. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~siona/captions/january.html L. Cambridge Beer Festival, yadda yadda yadda.
Re: see attachment
On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 10:06:52PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: well i had 15 minutes to spare so i decided to do this ... Right, so who's going to write a script that parses all of the london.pm traffic and tells us what we need to drink? Alex, what, *read* the bloody thing? -- I ask for so little. Just let me rule you, and you can have everything that you want. - Jareth, Labyrinth
Re: Monitors
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 05:15:56PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: On Fri, 11 May 2001, Mark Fowler wrote: (I don't eat chocolate.) *shock* It's not strictly necessary, as you still get the kinder egg toys... -Dom
Re: Monitors
On Fri, 11 May 2001, Dominic Mitchell wrote: On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 05:15:56PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: On Fri, 11 May 2001, Mark Fowler wrote: (I don't eat chocolate.) *shock* So you buy them anyway and give the chocolate away... L. Can I be your new best friend?
Re: Buffy musings ...
On Wed, 9 May 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote: And while we are on the old films chestnut, my current recommendation is 'O Brother, where art thou?', excellent film. Oh yes. Truly fantastic. Must buy the soundtrack album. ah yes, and the soggy bottom boys' `hit' is particularly good Ye-es, but gets slightly annnoying when youre lab colleague plays it repeatedly while dancing round with DNA. do they do lots of foot stamping? He's an Aussie, so he might do. L.
Re: 101 uses for an inflatable Tux
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 05:18:14PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: On Fri, 11 May 2001, Barbie wrote: Currently just Tux, who thankfully doesn't get used as Nerf gun target practice since leaving tw2. Heh. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~siona/captions/january.html Suggestions also welcome for all of these: http://pkl.net/~martin/lonix-2001-05-10/ Martin
Fwd: YAPC::Europe reminders, and requests for help (fwd)
FYI, Ann is one of the Y::E committee this year. Dave... Envelope-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 13:13:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Ann Barcomb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: YAPC::Europe reminders, and requests for help (fwd) You talked about giving London.pm a push. I figured I'd send you the letter I just sent Amsterdam.pm...maybe some parts of it can be re-used. Atm we're short on both full-length and lightning talks. Ann -- Forwarded message -- Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 12:23:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Ann Barcomb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Amsterdam PM mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: YAPC::Europe reminders, and requests for help I just wanted to remind everyone that the deadline for speech proposals for YAPC::Europe is in less than 3 weeks, on 1 June. If you hadn't really thought about giving a speech because you don't think you could fill the entire time, or you're worried about speaking, consider giving a lightning talk. With only 5 minutes of time to fill, you could probably compose your speech during the conference! Just send a title and 1 line about the topic to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Or just mail if you can commit to giving a lightning talk, even if you haven't thought of a topic yet. We're still looking for sponsors. If you know of companies that might be willing to sponsor the conference, mail Jouke [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Publicity is another area where we could use help. Suggestions and contacts for flyer distribution (such as at other conferences, meetings, etc) can be sent to me. Thanks, Ann [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.dave.org.uk SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug
Re: putting escape characters in files
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 11:14:08AM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: On Fri, 11 May 2001, Dominic Mitchell wrote: On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 11:41:20AM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: Dominic Mitchell wrote: assuming you can get into a bourne shell, you can still do things like write cat(1) in sh, as well. This is not going to help you pause output. Although it'd be hard to control without ^S and ^Q, ...which was what the original post was all about. No, you'd need the maths operators that came with later shells, so you could work out lines. Dammit, I'm going to have to write shmore now. #!/bin/sh lineno=1 while read line do lineno=$((lineno+1)) if [ $(($lineno % 24)) = 0 ] ; then echo -n -- more -- read ans /dev/tty test $ans = q exit 0 fi done That breaks if the line is longer than the width of your screen. echo $line --- echo `echo $line | dd bs=79 count=1 2/dev/null` -- Chris Benson P.S. Why are we doing this in sh(1)??
Re: Schroedingers Computer
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:55:47PM +0100, Barbie wrote: So far, demonstrations of quantum computing have been limited to the most rudimentary of calculations, involving only two or three bits of information. I'm sure Damian could them straight on that one ;-P Hmm, I think Damian's module ought to be called Classical::NonDeterminism. Lovely though it is, it's (theoretically) more powerful than quantum computers are known to be... .robin. -- A man, a plan, a cat, a ham, a yak, a yam, a hat, a canal--Panama! --Guy Jacobson
Re: Monitors
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:22:04PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: How many things do you have on top of your monitor? -Dom Zero but then things don't really sit too well on the powerbook's lcd or on the 15 lcd I've got :-) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: Monitors
On Fri, 11 May 2001, Dominic Mitchell wrote: How many things do you have on top of your monitor? Er, none this is a laptop :) I did have a wooden camel on top of the old desktop machine but this is now on top of the telly. /J\
Re: Monitors
On Fri, 11 May 2001, Dominic Mitchell wrote: How many things do you have on top of your monitor? -Dom Time enough for a delurking... 1 Frog (green, flat, catbeaten) 1 Dinosaur (brown, with pointy horns and tail) 1 Dinosaur (those wooden skeletons (you'd not imagine the trouble I had trying to buy this...)) And, tied to the ceiling above the monitor, a 35p flying dinosaur which waves in the thermals. Alex Gough -- A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
Re: Monitors
From: Robert Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 4:51 PM Subject: RE: Monitors How many things do you have on top of your monitor? Currently none. But at Torrington I had 8 items ( I think ) including marzipan models of Bagpuss (complete with Organ Mouse) and Tux. They have yet to migrate to my job. That's because they were sold off in the Torrington sale of assets. Matt
Re: Monitors
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:22:04PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: How many things do you have on top of your monitor? Five CommTech Star Wars figures -- the type that have a chip with a few voice samples in their base which the reader scans plays. Some of them have defined sequences so placing one figure after another on the reader results in a conversation. Very silly! Paul, who will now drop by toy shops that are in clearance-mode more often PS My 3rd 21 monitor is in the mail, muhaha. Sony F520 for $850, hee :)
Re: Monitors
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:22:04PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: How many things do you have on top of your monitor? Nothing. If your monitor cost as much as mine, you'd keep it sacrosanct too. -- SM is fun. ADSM is not. Safe, Sane, Consensual... three words that cannot used to describe ADSM. - Graham Reed, sdm.
Re: Monitors
On Sat, May 12, 2001 at 12:46:11AM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote: On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:22:04PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: How many things do you have on top of your monitor? Nothing. If your monitor cost as much as mine, you'd keep it sacrosanct too. All this says is you don't have enough money to buy a decent monitor every few months. Ah, to be kept in the lifestyle to which one so easily becomes accustomed... Sell the gold cat! Paul
Re: Schroedingers Computer
Barbie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.nature.com/nsu/010503/010503-6.html So far, demonstrations of quantum computing have been limited to the most rudimentary of calculations, involving only two or three bits of information. I'm sure Damian could them straight on that one ;-P And there was a demonstration of a 7 qubit computer last year! -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED] i gained nothing at all from supreme enlightenment, and for that very reason it is called supreme enlightenment. -- gotama buddha
