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We're so popular! At the official February monthly meeting (i.e. not the McCarroll heretics meeting) we'll be graced with the presence of Mark-Jason Dominus. Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug
Re: copious free time
On Fri, Jan 05, 2001 at 03:00:39PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: i think the real question (not specifically about h2g2) is what happened to cost/benefit analysis (and i'm talking about benefit to the profit sheet not some imaginary paper money IPO value)? Also know as the first rule of finance: "Don't run out of money". Tony -- - Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk girlboys may nothing more than boygirls need -
Re: copious free time
* David H. Adler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Fri, Jan 05, 2001 at 03:25:02PM +, Neil Ford wrote: I'd re-launch Surrey.pm and hold meetings in Guildford if I thought there'd be anyone there but me... :-(= Nat and I would probably come... but then I suspect the conversation wouldn't stay on the subject of Perl for very long... advantage being we could always hold them outdoors in the summer :-) You people talk about *perl*??? What kind of perl mongers group *are* you??? hey! at least we can arrange the meeting place/date in less than a thousand posts ;-) -greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Choke - The Register is working for the enemy
Simon Batistoni wrote: I quote: "A majority of Websites that incorporate user interaction and personalization rely on PHP" ^^ Surely to be in context .. "A majority of Websites that incorporate user interaction and personalization rely on PHP to demonstrate the crappiness of sharing code and html and so the clever people are using Perl" oh well, I can dream.. Cheers Graham Full story: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/15862.html Simon Batistoni, CTO, Userfrenzy.com Ltd. e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] p: +44 20 7209 4117
Re: Choke - The Register is working for the enemy
On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 01:05:47PM -, Simon Batistoni wrote: I quote: "A majority of Websites that incorporate user interaction and personalization rely on PHP" ^^ I'm getting a strong feeling of deja-vu, pointing back to the survey of used modules. Of course it's interesting to note that the reg site itself is a twisted heap of mod_perl spewed forth from the fevered brains of Birmingham.pm. Which is nice. -- Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
one liner
Ok, we are not (void) but we are pretty close so here is a one liner that hopefully will provote discussion the only thing that gives potential for the marketing of a language is the projects that are achieved using it and java has a hell of a lot more cool projects than perl /me is thinking of a new london.pm project called ``ignore the perl 6 body and parallel to it lets create our own perl propoganda/marketting/best practice/for the good fo the language movement'' -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: one liner
On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 10:12:37PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: Ok, we are not (void) but we are pretty close so here is a one liner that hopefully will provote discussion the only thing that gives potential for the marketing of a language is the projects that are achieved using it and java has a hell of a lot more cool projects than perl What are these mysterious cool java projects that no-one's been telling me about? /me is thinking of a new london.pm project called ``ignore the perl 6 body and parallel to it lets create our own perl propoganda/marketting/best practice/for the good fo the language movement'' I think the best thing people can do for the language is create good things and modules and whatever using it.
Re: one liner
-Original Message- From: Michael Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] Greg are you trolling? If so let me play ;) the only thing that gives potential for the marketing of a language is the projects that are achieved using it and java has a hell of a lot more cool projects than perl What are these mysterious cool java projects that no-one's been telling me about? Fortay's a good example. A Java IDE written in Java, and under Linux it's pretty quick even on 64 MB ram. IBM developerworks and Alphaworks have tftp and dhcp servers in Java. I wouldn't run them though :) I think the best thing people can do for the language is create good things and modules and whatever using it. I agree but I also think that this is one of the problems, the only people who see the modules are other perl coders. I'm not saying that modules are a bad thing or a waste of effort, I'd hate to think about writing the code for half of the modules I use on a regular basis but the only people who really understand and use them are perl coders, people who know that perl is good. I think Greg means making something a little more visible, How many netusers see the powered by python logo on mailman each day? Whats our answer to that? Slashcode? Plying devils advocate is fun. Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: one liner
-Original Message- From: Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ok, we are not (void) but we are pretty close so here is a one liner that hopefully will provote discussion I left (void) and you'l not take me back alive! Outlook canne take the strain! the only thing that gives potential for the marketing of a language is the projects that are achieved using it and java has a hell of a lot more cool projects than perl I think that marketing is the key term in this mail. Java has a good marketing team and is being taught in universities at the moment, nothing better than having a lot of fresh faced advocates being spawned at the end of each term. Dean (Playing both sides in this one) -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand. --- Anon
Re: one liner
On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, Dean S Wilson wrote: I left (void) and you'l not take me back alive! Outlook canne take the strain! i think london.pm is busier than (void) nowadays, a lot of the thought-provoking people left -- Snack pastries are dramatic when shapes are combined
Re: one liner
On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, Dean S Wilson wrote: I agree but I also think that this is one of the problems, the only people who see the modules are other perl coders. indeed. there are few end-user perl apps. in my eyes Perl is not particularly good for programs written by one person, or in small groups working closely together, or by highly experienced programmers. maybe this is why you don't end up with many good, generalised Perl applications. at the least, Perl development needs to be well managed, perhaps a little more than most. perhaps perl6 will solve this, but it seems to me that Perl programmers have so much choice, that every Perl hacker uses a different sub-language within Perl. for example, i dislike Perl with map()'s that throw away return values, and most uses of unless(), but do plenty to annoy other programers - for example strange data hiding techniques. well that's all negative, so i'll go on to say why Perl is the best language for me... i believe that Perl allows human expression better than any other language i've heard of. most importantly, i can get things working fast. i can't use c++ to create art because there is too much time between the idea and execution - so the idea gets stale before it can be realised. with Perl, the creative process continues while i'm in the coding phase; in fact, that's the only phase i have for my personal projects... also the amount of choice allows me to write programs that match my way of thinking. i can write a large program and be confident that it will work first time (apart from syntax errors), because i have been able to construct the program in my own terms. i have control over my medium. the impressive data munging capabilities allow me to create art quickly and expressively, that has direct 'influences' from the external world... for example, creating audio based on the structure of motorways taken from GPS data, or from mailing lists. and of course the community - CPAN is very useful but exists because of a sharing and (mostly) friendly community. if i'm going to use other people's code in my art this is a highly important point. so to me, Perl is the most human computer language, and so the most suitable language for computer art. alex ps Tangram and Template Toolkit are great! -- Snack pastries are dramatic when shapes are combined
Re: one liner
On Sat, Jan 06, 2001 at 10:12:37PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: the only thing that gives potential for the marketing of a language is the projects that are achieved using it and java has a hell of a lot more cool projects than perl I've been playing with Akopia ne' MiniVend/Tallyman which of course is written in perl and certainly from a functionality point of view it's very, very cool and is a serious-weight app. I haven't dug into its internals yet but it looks pretty sophisticated with shades of Template.pm even. http://developer.akopia.com/ I would definitely count this as a Perl success story. Like it not, Matt Wright's stuff is a perl success story if only from a bums-on-seats PoV... Paul
