Re: Much Coolness XML Wise.

2001-01-09 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Simon Wistow ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 
  There are a few crypto modules on CPAN, although they all use C for the
  hard work.  Whether they're available in PPMs for Activestate or not,
  I don't know.
 
 I'm doing a pure WML script implementation of MD5 at the moment that'd
 be dead easy to port to Perl. Especially since Perl has things like
 arrays which I always find useful for this sort of thing, grumble,
 grumble, Wap rhymes with cr

MIND THE WAP



-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net




Re: Hiring

2001-01-09 Thread David Hodgkinson

David Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Picture painted?

Man, I REALLY need to check Reply-To's...!

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire
  -



Re: Perl commandments

2001-01-09 Thread Piers Cawley

David Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Was it here that we discussed the Perl commandments? You remember,
 things like "thou shalt use strict and -w" and so on...

I don't think we were. But:

Thou shalt not write the same thing twice.
Thou shalt not use map in a void context.
Thou shalt ensure that everything knows as little as possible about
   anything else. (There's *got* to be a way to condense that...)
Thou shalt use DWIMmery where appropriate
Thou shalt not write C/COBOL/Basic/FORTRAN in Perl. Unless that's the
   point of the joke.

-- 
Piers




Perl 6

2001-01-09 Thread Greg McCarroll


has anyone been keeping up with the Perl 6 mailing lists and the Perl 6
project in general? i'd like to have a look into some of the proposals
and i've sort of lost touch with it all.

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Perl commandments

2001-01-09 Thread David Cantrell

On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 11:25:18AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:

 * Piers Cawley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

  Thou shalt ensure that everything knows as little as possible about
 anything else. (There's *got* to be a way to condense that...)

Thou shalt encapsulate?

 ok heres my 10 rules 
 
   3.) use warnings and use strict, even if you have to sprinkle no
   strict and use strict block throughout the code

And 3b) always document why you are using no strict.

 6.) regular expressions are not the only way to code, length and
 substr are in the language for a reason

Also index.  These two snippets are equivalent:
  if($foo=~/foo/) { ... }
  if(index($foo, 'foo')!=-1) { ... }
I always want to do just plain if(index(...)) though.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

  Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced



Re: Much Coolness XML Wise.

2001-01-09 Thread Mike Wyer

On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Dean S Wilson wrote:

I've been involved in the debates on this list about Perl and Java and
I'd thought I'd say something nice for once.

I've just spent three hours playing with XML::Generator and md5
checksums, I was having problems building hash's of hash's with the
module (Seems to only add the last one in a foreach loop to the XML.
Gotta be me :)) and then with a quick glance at cpan I found
XML::Dumper. I don't know if I'm the only one here who didn't know
about this module but its Data::Dumper that outputs well formed xml.
Two minutes to read the docs and make a quick test script and tada!
Well formed xml files of my structures ready to be used. In under five
additional lines of code.

How does the output compare to XML::Simple::XMLout() ?

Cheers,
Mike
-- 
Mike Wyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] || "Woof?"
http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~mw ||  Gaspode the Wonder Dog
Work:  +44 020 7594 8440||
Mobile: +44 07879 697119||  ICQ: 43922064




Re: Perl 6

2001-01-09 Thread David Cantrell

On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 11:57:46AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:

 has anyone been keeping up with the Perl 6 mailing lists and the Perl 6
 project in general? i'd like to have a look into some of the proposals
 and i've sort of lost touch with it all.

From what I can tell, there ain't a lot happening.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

  Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced



Re: Perl commandments

2001-01-09 Thread Piers Cawley

David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 11:25:18AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:
  6.) regular expressions are not the only way to code, length and
  substr are in the language for a reason
 
 Also index.  These two snippets are equivalent:
   if($foo=~/foo/) { ... }
   if(index($foo, 'foo')!=-1) { ... }
 I always want to do just plain if(index(...)) though.

ISTR that (for weird reasons), the regex version of that is faster.





Re: Perl commandments

2001-01-09 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Piers Cawley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 11:25:18AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:
   6.) regular expressions are not the only way to code, length and
   substr are in the language for a reason
  
  Also index.  These two snippets are equivalent:
if($foo=~/foo/) { ... }
if(index($foo, 'foo')!=-1) { ... }
  I always want to do just plain if(index(...)) though.
 
 ISTR that (for weird reasons), the regex version of that is faster.
 

but of course we don't (shouldn't) program perl for program time optimization
but for programmer time optimization ;-)



-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Perl commandments

2001-01-09 Thread Piers Cawley

Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 * Piers Cawley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
   On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 11:25:18AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:
6.) regular expressions are not the only way to code, length and
substr are in the language for a reason
   
   Also index.  These two snippets are equivalent:
 if($foo=~/foo/) { ... }
 if(index($foo, 'foo')!=-1) { ... }
   I always want to do just plain if(index(...)) though.
  
  ISTR that (for weird reasons), the regex version of that is faster.
 
 but of course we don't (shouldn't) program perl for program time
 optimization but for programmer time optimization ;-)

So the regex wins on all counts then. Faster, clearer, shorter, easier
to maintain. The list goes on.

-- 
Piers





Re: Perl commandments

2001-01-09 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Piers Cawley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  * Piers Cawley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
   David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 11:25:18AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 6.) regular expressions are not the only way to code, length and
 substr are in the language for a reason

Also index.  These two snippets are equivalent:
  if($foo=~/foo/) { ... }
  if(index($foo, 'foo')!=-1) { ... }
I always want to do just plain if(index(...)) though.
   
   ISTR that (for weird reasons), the regex version of that is faster.
  
  but of course we don't (shouldn't) program perl for program time
  optimization but for programmer time optimization ;-)
 
 So the regex wins on all counts then. Faster, clearer, shorter, easier
 to maintain. The list goes on.
 
nope daves was a bad example

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Perl commandments

2001-01-09 Thread Leon Brocard

Greg McCarroll sent the following bits through the ether:

 nope daves was a bad example

Benchmark.pm - hard facts are better than guesses (hmm, I could do a
talk on this...)

Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/

... All new improved Brocard, now with Template Toolkit!



Re: Perl commandments

2001-01-09 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Leon Brocard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 Greg McCarroll sent the following bits through the ether:
 
  nope daves was a bad example
 
 Benchmark.pm - hard facts are better than guesses (hmm, I could do a
 talk on this...)
 

in my original rule it was all to do with good programming style, not
eeking out every bit of performance, my reply was actually that i
thought dave choose a very grey area in terms of programming style


-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Perl commandments

2001-01-09 Thread Leon Brocard

Greg McCarroll sent the following bits through the ether:

 in my original rule it was all to do with good programming style, not
 eeking out every bit of performance, my reply was actually that i
 thought dave choose a very grey area in terms of programming style

Indeed. And someone mentioned another bit of code being faster,
*without benchmarking it*.

Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/

... All new improved Brocard, now with Template Toolkit!



RE: Much Coolness XML Wise.

2001-01-09 Thread Jonathan Peterson


 How does the output compare to XML::Simple::XMLout() ?


I found XML::Simple::XMLout() to be deeply yucky, as it kind of randomly
chooses to go for sub elements or attributes based on phases of the moon*.
Also, it will happily output invalid XML if you have invalid data in your
datastructure. Also it dies if given recursive structures. And it doesn't do
binary data.

I've found XML::Writer to be OK, although it doesn't do an 'export this data
structure as XML' thing. You could use it write your own though. Or use
XML::Dumper, I guess.



*Something like all single nested items are made into attributes, or, if you
prefer, nothing is made into attributes. Ick.




Re: Perl commandments

2001-01-09 Thread Piers Cawley

Leon Brocard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Greg McCarroll sent the following bits through the ether:
 
  in my original rule it was all to do with good programming style, not
  eeking out every bit of performance, my reply was actually that i
  thought dave choose a very grey area in terms of programming style
 
 Indeed. And someone mentioned another bit of code being faster,
 *without benchmarking it*.

This time. The discussion has been back and forth on various lists,
usually with benchmarks.

-- 
Piers




Re: Perl 6

2001-01-09 Thread Piers Cawley

Nathan Torkington [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 David Cantrell writes:
  From what I can tell, there ain't a lot happening.
 
 As Piers said, we are blocked on Larry.  We're working on some
 interpreter design now, but some language issues really need to be
 nailed down before we know what we're going to be writing.

Any idea how long we're going to stay blocked?

-- 
Piers




Re: Perl commandments

2001-01-09 Thread Leon Brocard

Piers Cawley sent the following bits through the ether:

 This time. The discussion has been back and forth on various lists,
 usually with benchmarks.

Thou shalt optimise for programmer time unless absolutely necessary,
when thou shalt Benchmark and quoth both the benchmark and the
results.

Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/

... All new improved Brocard, now with Template Toolkit!



Re: Perl 6

2001-01-09 Thread Andy Wardley

On Jan 9,  8:24am, Nathan Torkington wrote:
 As Piers said, we are blocked on Larry.  We're working on some
 interpreter design now, but some language issues really need to be
 nailed down before we know what we're going to be writing.

Are there any plans to keep the RFC process going in the future?  It
occurs to me that people are always coming up with half-assed ideas
about the next greatest thing that should go in Perl and an RFC process
would allow them to air them for peer review.

It might also draw the all-talk-and-no-trousers crowd away from the
serious perl6 development process.  It would give us, er, I mean *them*
somewhere to rant without bothering too many people doing the real work
on crafting Perl 6.


A


-- 
Andy Wardley [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Signature regenerating.  Please remain seated.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/



Re: Hiring

2001-01-09 Thread David Hodgkinson


Anyone got Richard Clamp's mobile no? He's due here now...


-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire
  -



Re: Perl 6

2001-01-09 Thread Nathan Torkington

Piers Cawley writes:
  As Piers said, we are blocked on Larry.  We're working on some
  interpreter design now, but some language issues really need to be
  nailed down before we know what we're going to be writing.
 
 Any idea how long we're going to stay blocked?

None whatsoever.  Many phone conversations with Larry have lead me to
conclude that he'll complete it in his own time or not at all.  The
trick is deciding which it is :-)

Nat



Re: Hiring

2001-01-09 Thread Simon Wistow

David Hodgkinson wrote:
 
 Anyone got Richard Clamp's mobile no? He's due here now...

07720 298487

I think



Re: Hiring

2001-01-09 Thread Steve Mynott

David Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Simon Wistow [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  I think
 
 Ta,

How did he do then?

:-

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

microsoft: where do you want to go today?
linux: where do you want to go tomorrow?
bsd: are you guys coming or what?



Re: Perl 6

2001-01-09 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Nathan Torkington ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 
 We're going to use RFCs for future additions to Perl, we just need to
 find some good filters that will prevent them from consuming
 everyone's time.

how about adding a field on the RFC template such as, ``forum initially 
discussed in'' - then encourage people that before they submit an RFC
they should of had it discussed in an open forum such as P5P, #perl
or even their local (or favourite) Perl monger list.

this has the ( devious ) side effect of gently spamming some people
about issues for Perl 6 hence getting more pairs of eyeballs on the
development and design of the beastie

Greg

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net