Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Steve Mynott ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  * Aaron Trevena ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
   
   Also many hackers have more business sense than their MDs - look at
   success of projects started by hackers or engineers versus that of those
   started by MBAs or middle managers..
   
  
  business sense != project sucess
 
 why not?  I would have thought similar skills were involved in both?
 

i used to think so, but having seen business ``hackers'' at work i have
seen the light. there is a breed of person who is so skilled at hacking
the business system/structures especially inter-business arrangements
that they have an entirely different skillset

looking back at Aaron's post i agree with him on middle management but
not wrt good MD's

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Greg Cope ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 
 Thats were a few people have gone wrong lately then ;-)
 

yup

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: thoth

2001-01-19 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 01:35:32AM -0500, Mark Rogaski typed:

That would be c.l.p.m ... unless of course you aren't referring to Tom.

You weren't at the technical meeting last night, were you? This thoth
is a network monitoring system.

R



Re: OT : DVD

2001-01-19 Thread Paul Mison

On 15/01/2001 at 21:12 +, mallum wrote:
 ^

Your clock's wrong...


--
:: paul
:: and if you refuse to believe
:: you will be cast into the void






Re: Compiling mod_perl on Debian

2001-01-19 Thread Niklas Nordebo

On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 07:51:30PM +, Marcel Grunauer wrote:
 apt-get install apache-perl will get you an apache with mod_perl linked into
 Apache.
 
 The trouble I find with precompiled mod_perl's is that they usually
 haven't beencompiled with EVERYTHING = 1, so they have to be compiled
 from scratch anyway when using AxKit.

Yes, I want one with EVERYTHING=1...

-- 
Niklas Nordebo -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 618, further transmissions
  to you by the sender may be stopped at NO COST to you by forwarding this
  e-mail to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=remove
 



Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Dave Hodgkinson

Greg Cope [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
  
  "Paul Makepeace" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
   The US has much more to worry about than the UK, like high water tables,
   vicious weather and earthquakes. The smart money goes on hosting in Texas
   (San Antonio) not California though -- relatively
   earthquake/tornado/storm/etc-free!
  
  You're talking rackspace.com, I take it? ;-)
 
 Are they not in New York ?

No. San Antonio if traceroutes are to be believed.

 
 Dellhost are in texas - which I destest due to its attitude to capital
 P.

You not been following the Confederacy conspiracy?

 What like americans ?
 
 (present american company excluded)

No, cable installation "engineers". All cable company phone
support/accounts.

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire
  -



Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Dave Hodgkinson

David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 And the UK doesn't have high water tables (in some places and not in others,
 just like anywhere else) or vicious weather (again, in some places not in
 others, just like anywhere else).  But it strikes me as being absurd that I
 hear EVERY YEAR of the power going out for large areas of major cities in
 .us, something which just doesn't happen in Europe.

It should be mandatory for all public servants to be adept at Sim
City.


-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire
  -



Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Greg Cope

Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
 
 Greg Cope [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
  
   "Paul Makepeace" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
The US has much more to worry about than the UK, like high water tables,
vicious weather and earthquakes. The smart money goes on hosting in Texas
(San Antonio) not California though -- relatively
earthquake/tornado/storm/etc-free!
  
   You're talking rackspace.com, I take it? ;-)
 
  Are they not in New York ?
 
 No. San Antonio if traceroutes are to be believed.

I'll shut up then ;-0

 
 
  Dellhost are in texas - which I destest due to its attitude to capital
  P.
 
 You not been following the Confederacy conspiracy?
 

No - just dont like the gun ho lets fry anyone on deathrow - and now a a
great chestnut one of them got to be president ...

  What like americans ?
 
  (present american company excluded)
 
 No, cable installation "engineers". All cable company phone
 support/accounts.
 

Luckily I've not suffered from those.

Greg

 --
 Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
 Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
   Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire
   -



What's a perl person then?

2001-01-19 Thread Jonathan Peterson

Got this through the email. Where do Perl people fit in?

Unix person:  So then he tried to su to chroot, but of course the crontab
wasn't even mounted because there were four spaces instead of a tab in the
getty sed awk ^] sh ksh zsh   | and that's why we're getting another
three E45000s to run it on.
Other unix person:  haw haw haw!  Computing is truly an art.
 
Windows Person:  We spent 50 hours optimizing the drawing routine so as to
produce proper antialiasing even on strange hardware, but in the end we
couldn't roll it out because none of the sysadmins knows how to.
Other windows person:  oh well.
 
Java person:  We spent 3000 hours optimizing the drawing until finally it
could run on a pentium II.  Now we just have to make sure the users have
I.E.4.8 with the JDK1.3.1 plugin, J3D 2.x, and at least DBTools 2.2 or
above, and the correct classpath, and odbc settings, and one of the default
fonts that actually works.  If not, our six months of work will be
completely wasted.
Other java person:  Failure is impossible.  We will prevail.  Setbacks are
irrelevant.  The fools just don't understand that this is JAVA.


Jonathan PetersonIdeas Hub Ltd
(t) +44 (0)20 7487 1310
www.ideashub.com





Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Michael Stevens

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 09:42:11AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:
  yes and no. If you need to do an allnighter and its unavoidable (due to a
  client suddenly changing ther mind) then theres no problem doing it ..
  just charge em bigtime!
 nope this is where your pimp/MD should of tied up the contract watertight,
 so if they change their mind the deadline changes

What do you do where this is not the case, other than think about finding
a new job?

Michael



Re: What's a perl person then?

2001-01-19 Thread Greg Cope

Jonathan Peterson wrote:
 
 Got this through the email. Where do Perl people fit in?
 
 Unix person:  So then he tried to su to chroot, but of course the crontab
 wasn't even mounted because there were four spaces instead of a tab in the
 getty sed awk ^] sh ksh zsh   | and that's why we're getting another
 three E45000s to run it on.
 Other unix person:  haw haw haw!  Computing is truly an art.
 
 Windows Person:  We spent 50 hours optimizing the drawing routine so as to
 produce proper antialiasing even on strange hardware, but in the end we
 couldn't roll it out because none of the sysadmins knows how to.
 Other windows person:  oh well.
 
 Java person:  We spent 3000 hours optimizing the drawing until finally it
 could run on a pentium II.  Now we just have to make sure the users have
 I.E.4.8 with the JDK1.3.1 plugin, J3D 2.x, and at least DBTools 2.2 or
 above, and the correct classpath, and odbc settings, and one of the default
 fonts that actually works.  If not, our six months of work will be
 completely wasted.
 Other java person:  Failure is impossible.  We will prevail.  Setbacks are
 irrelevant.  The fools just don't understand that this is JAVA.

perl person:  Hacked a drawing program in 2 hours.
other person:  That long, oh dear ..

Greg

 
 
 Jonathan PetersonIdeas Hub Ltd
 (t) +44 (0)20 7487 1310
 www.ideashub.com



Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Piers Cawley

David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 04:42:55PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:
  * Leo Lapworth ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
   People (no particular order):
   
= Pimp   =   =  Accountant  =
= BOFH   =   = Security Guru =
= Perl Gurus' =  = Perl Trainee Gurus  =
  
  i'd add an MD/CEO who would initially do a lot of the
  pimping, the accountant could initially also be outsourced.
  the BOFH and Security Guru could be rolled into one.
  i'd also hire non-Perl programmers so that you didn't
  just have one leg to the stool
 
 Seems reasonable. Also think about Oracle and Sybase wizards
 (combined with the BOFH and/or $language Guru roles initially) and
 an NT person. Actually, *all* the tech people should be sufficiently
 multi-skilled to be able to do two things reasonably well - that way
 it's easier to pimp them, they can command more dosh, and they (and
 the company) are protected if one of their skills goes badly out of
 fashion.

And one of the goals of gurus within the consultancy should be to help
train up other folks who want to pick up that skill. Preferably in an
environment where something real is being acheived.

   Money:
 Base salary and split proffit according to which category your in.
  
  founders split say 50% of the equity, 25% reserved for latecomers
  and 25% pencilled for VC types
 
 Just wait for the arguing about how that 50% gets split!

That 50% gets split equally among the founding partners.

   Open source / clients:
 Create projects for open source community (sell to clients
 with support). When not assigned to a specific money 
 making project or client create next project to OS and 
 make money from.
  
  agreed!
 
 Yup. Plan to make money from support contracts on this open source
 stuff, and also from being a 'preferred implementor' using it.

Indeed. Ooh, this sounds very tempting.

-- 
Piers




Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Piers Cawley

David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 04:51:18PM +, Greg Cope wrote:
 
  What about a bed / kip room and of course a play room - and I do not
  mean some 70's swingers thing - a P2, etc ... 
 
 Having something to crash on when pulling an all-nighter is, IMO, a bad
 idea as it encourages pulling all-nighters.  You just don't write good
 code at 2 in the morning, and end up spending just as much time untangling
 it as you did writing it in the first place.  And in any case, if you
 *need* to work all night, there's something wrong with the project
 management.  Oh yeah, we'd need to have project management skillz in the
 group too.  No need for a whole project mangler though to start with.
 
 As for toys - if they're not the *useful* sort of toy then they should be
 rewards*, as opposed to being there right from the start.  That way they
 become a motivational tool.  Although to be honest, I wouldn't be motivated
 by lots of the things numija companies think are motivating like PS2s.
 I'd be more for getting a bigger monitor on my workstation, or a punchbag
 for the office.  Or some clean jerrycans :-)

Big monitors on workstations are *not* rewards. They are essential
tools for the job. Anything smaller than 19" is rapidly approaching
too cramped for serious work. TFT monitors on workstations are
rewards...

 * - eg, when the first big fat cheque arrives from a happy client,
 get a PS 2. When we hit milestones *on time* in the next
 project, get another game for it.

Modulo the PS2 not necessarily being a motivator, that sounds like a
plan. 

-- 
Piers




Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Piers Cawley

Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Greg Cope [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  IMHO developers should be given the environment that is what makes them
  confotable, an IBM research center was on the telly the other day that
  had a big open plan style area, as well as individaul offices, as well
  as Lego.  The environment was totally focused to nuturing developers so
  that they create (hopefully good, bug-free(TM) code).
 
 Sounds like extreme programming to me...

I *so* want to try this. I'm getting fed up of being sole programmer
on projects.

-- 
Piers




Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Michael Stevens

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 10:32:16AM +, Michael Stevens wrote:
 On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 09:42:11AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:
   yes and no. If you need to do an allnighter and its unavoidable (due to a
   client suddenly changing ther mind) then theres no problem doing it ..
   just charge em bigtime!
  nope this is where your pimp/MD should of tied up the contract watertight,
  so if they change their mind the deadline changes
 What do you do where this is not the case, other than think about finding
 a new job?

Although, thinking about it, I can also note that the "find a new job" approach
seems to work...

Michael



Re: What's a perl person then?

2001-01-19 Thread Simon Wistow

Greg Cope wrote:

 perl person:  Hacked a drawing program in 2 hours.
 other person:  That long, oh dear ..

perl person: yeah but I was drunk at the time. Oh and it sends mail. And
it's written in Latin. And none of the sub routines are actually called.
It just sort of guesses which one you want. And it plays music to you
depending on what you're drawing. 
other person: yeah, but two hours? for a one line program? 
perl person: I suppose so. Fancy a pint?
other person: compare! swap! 
perl person: oh shut up.

;)



Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat wormdiscovered

2001-01-19 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On 19 Jan 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:

 David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  And the UK doesn't have high water tables (in some places and not in others,
  just like anywhere else) or vicious weather (again, in some places not in
  others, just like anywhere else).  But it strikes me as being absurd that I
  hear EVERY YEAR of the power going out for large areas of major cities in
  .us, something which just doesn't happen in Europe.
 
 It should be mandatory for all public servants to be adept at Sim
 City.

Thats where I went wrong when I was working in the public sector - I used
to play Duke Nukem all the time :)

/J\
-- 
Jonathan Stowe   |   
http://www.gellyfish.com |   I'm with Grep on this one 
http://www.tackleway.co.uk   |




Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Michael Stevens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 10:32:16AM +, Michael Stevens wrote:
  On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 09:42:11AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:
yes and no. If you need to do an allnighter and its unavoidable (due to a
client suddenly changing ther mind) then theres no problem doing it ..
just charge em bigtime!
   nope this is where your pimp/MD should of tied up the contract watertight,
   so if they change their mind the deadline changes
  What do you do where this is not the case, other than think about finding
  a new job?
 
 Although, thinking about it, I can also note that the "find a new job" approach
 seems to work...

write a suggestions document of where the project management and
management functions are going wrong

if they ignore it leave

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



RE: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Andrew Bowman

 From: Greg McCarroll [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 write a suggestions document of where the project management and
 management functions are going wrong

 if they ignore it leave

Do you know anywhere this has happened Greg? ;-)




Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread Dave Cross

A quick reminder of something I mentioned last night.

The hardware spec for penderel (our server) is starting to show its age 
(I don't know exactly what the specs are, but the box is at least 18 
months old).

There are also a number of people who have expressed an interest in
joining the exclusive club of people who have accounts on the server.

The suggestion is, therefore, that we set up a hardware upgrade fund to
buy new bits for the server. Contributions would be set at £50 and 
anyone contributing would gain the same rights on the box as the 
origianl contributors.

I'm therefore looking for a volunteer to organise this. The organiser
would, of course, be given a free login on the server.

Anyone fancy it?

Dave...



Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread alex

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
 Anyone fancy it?

I forgot to mention, I offered to do this before, and that offer still
stands.

alex

-- 
Snack pastries are dramatic when shapes are combined





Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread Simon Wistow

Dave Cross wrote:

 I'm therefore looking for a volunteer to organise this. The organiser
 would, of course, be given a free login on the server.
 
 Anyone fancy it?

I'll give it a go.



Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread Dave Cross

At Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:10:26 + (GMT), alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
  Anyone fancy it?
 
 I forgot to mention, I offered to do this before, and that offer still
 stands.

Alex,

Thanks for the offer. I'm more that happy to take you up on it.

How soon do you think you can have a list of the kinds of hardware that
you want to buy? That would give us an estimate of how many new donors
we're looking for.

Dave...



Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread Dave Cross

At Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:12:58 +, Simon Wistow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dave Cross wrote:
 
  I'm therefore looking for a volunteer to organise this. The 
  organiser would, of course, be given a free login on the server.
  
  Anyone fancy it?
 
 I'll give it a go.

Simon,

The advantage of having Alex doing it, is that with penderel sitting 
under his desk, hardware installation is much easier. I'm sure he'd
be happy for help speccing the requirement tho'.

Did you get your login account? You earned one for lugging the bloody
thing halfway across london.

Dave...



Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote:

 At Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:10:26 + (GMT), alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
   Anyone fancy it?
  
  I forgot to mention, I offered to do this before, and that offer still
  stands.
 
 Alex,
 
 Thanks for the offer. I'm more that happy to take you up on it.
 
 How soon do you think you can have a list of the kinds of hardware that
 you want to buy? That would give us an estimate of how many new donors
 we're looking for.
 

ISTR that I *was* originally signed up to pay for the server in the first
place but for some reason failed to do so I would be quite happy to chip
in the odd 50.00 this time.

If anyone needs some help organizing as well let me know.

/J\
-- 
Jonathan Stowe   |   
http://www.gellyfish.com |   I'm with Grep on this one 
http://www.tackleway.co.uk   |




Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread John

Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

 At Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:12:58 +, Simon Wistow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Dave Cross wrote:
  
   I'm therefore looking for a volunteer to organise this. The 
   organiser would, of course, be given a free login on the server.

What's the current specs of the machine? (Just out of interest)

John

-- 
:wq



Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread Neil Ford

A quick reminder of something I mentioned last night.

The hardware spec for penderel (our server) is starting to show its age
(I don't know exactly what the specs are, but the box is at least 18
months old).

There are also a number of people who have expressed an interest in
joining the exclusive club of people who have accounts on the server.

The suggestion is, therefore, that we set up a hardware upgrade fund to
buy new bits for the server. Contributions would be set at 50 and
anyone contributing would gain the same rights on the box as the
origianl contributors.

I'm therefore looking for a volunteer to organise this. The organiser
would, of course, be given a free login on the server.

Anyone fancy it?

Dave...

As a comparison, here's the spec of Ourshack.com (which houses 
Template Toolkit amongst other projects). I don't think anyone's 
complained about performance just yet.

Pentium II 233MMX
320MB RAM (this we have upgraded)
14GB HD

Box is running Apache, Roxen, MySQL and all the regular stuff (named, 
mail, mailman), never seems to be heavily loaded.

So you might be quite surprised how little you need to add. The 
biggest expense may be some kind of backup device.

Neil.



-- 
Neil C. Ford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.binky.ourshack.org



Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread alex

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
 Thanks for the offer. I'm more that happy to take you up on it.

no problems.

 How soon do you think you can have a list of the kinds of hardware
 that you want to buy? That would give us an estimate of how many new
 donors we're looking for.

I'd prefer to do it the other way round if you don't mind, and say you
have just one month to send a cheque for 50 pounds made out to C A McLean
[1] to state51, 8 rhoda street, bethnal green, e2 7ef , or brought along
to the next social or technical meeting.

At the end of the month I'll let you all know what money we have and we
can then decide what to do with it.


Alex

[1] My first name is actually Christopher, but handily my parents changed
their minds after registering my birth and decided to call me by my middle
name.

PS The guy with the tennants extra broke in to another part of the
building and caused some damage to a couple of studios :( it seems that he
couldn't find anything to steal, but still, not nice.

-- 
Snack pastries are dramatic when shapes are combined





Re: Advice

2001-01-19 Thread Simon Wistow

Dean S Wilson wrote:

 What kind of low level stuff are you interested in? kernel/device
 drivers kind of thing or something else entirely?

I've been working on compilers, WAP browsers and crypto since I got
here. I'd love to have a go working on kernel stuff or device drivers.
What I'd really like to do is work on my Flash stuff but nothing's
really been forthcoming on that front.

Robert Shiels wrote:

 If possible, move to a good job, not away from a bad one.

I think that's some of the best advice anybody's ever given me.

Games would be good. But the pay is low (20K pa) - over a grand a month
gross less for me which is a change in lifestyle (although it's only
recently I wasn't surviving as a student on 10).

The games industry is very volatile at the moment - so many different
platforms (10 at least) and so many people producing games for them. You
work for 2 years on a game by which time the console you're devloping
for may not have survived (e.g N64) or the game may do inexplicably
badly.

On the other hand games give me a hard on so 

/me sighs



Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread Dave Cross

At Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:41:38 + (GMT), alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote:

  How soon do you think you can have a list of the kinds of hardware
  that you want to buy? That would give us an estimate of how many new
  donors we're looking for.
 
 I'd prefer to do it the other way round if you don't mind, and say you
 have just one month to send a cheque for 50 pounds made out to C A 
 McLean [1] to state51, 8 rhoda street, bethnal green, e2 7ef , or 
 brought along to the next social or technical meeting.
 
 At the end of the month I'll let you all know what money we have and 
 we can then decide what to do with it.

OK. Sounds like a fine plan to me.

Just as long as you don't bugger off to Amsterdam, Krefeld or Sweden :)

Dave...



Re: Advice

2001-01-19 Thread Simon Wistow

Redvers Davies wrote:

 Is that a change in conditions such that you have to give 3 months notice
 or that you don't have a termination clause such that you sign up on a
 rolling 3 month contract.

I'm coming to the end of my 3 month probabtion period. AFter that,
becuase I work for the RnD part of the company I have to give 3 month's
notice. Everyone in my department has this and I think it's a fairly
standard thing for all RnD (although I may be wrong) and also for
Academia (my company was set up by 2 of my ex-lecturers)



Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread alex

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
 I'm not sure. I don't think I've ever known this. I'm hoping that
 someone woh a) bought it or b) is sitting next to it will be able to
 leap in with this information.

[alex@penderel alex]$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor   : 0
vendor_id   : AuthenticAMD
cpu family  : 5
model   : 8
model name  : AMD-K6(tm) 3D processor
stepping: 12
cpu MHz : 350.803
cache size  : 64 KB
fdiv_bug: no
hlt_bug : no
sep_bug : no
f00f_bug: no
coma_bug: no
fpu : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level : 1
wp  : yes
flags   : fpu vme de pse tsc msr mce cx8 sep mtrr
pge mmx 3dnow
bogomips: 699.60

[alex@penderel alex]$ cat
/proc/meminfo
total:used:free:  shared: buffers:  cached:
Mem:  130895872 126423040  4472832 53395456 62877696 15953920
Swap: 271392768  6909952 264482816
MemTotal:127828 kB
MemFree:   4368 kB
MemShared:52144 kB
Buffers:  61404 kB
Cached:   15580 kB
BigTotal: 0 kB
BigFree:  0 kB
SwapTotal:   265032 kB
SwapFree:258284 kB

[alex@penderel alex]$ cat /proc/scsi/scsi
Attached devices:
Host: scsi0 Channel: 00 Id: 06 Lun: 00
  Vendor: IBM  Model: DDRS-34560   Rev: S97B
  Type:   Direct-AccessANSI SCSI revision: 02

[alex@penderel alex]$ df
Filesystem   1k-blocks  Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda6  4119172899532   3010396  24% /
/dev/sda1 7746  2951  4395  41% /boot

I can open up the box on any requested fact-finding missions. :)


alex

-- 
Snack pastries are dramatic when shapes are combined





OuPerlPo

2001-01-19 Thread Robin Houston

The talk I gave last night (or an outline thereof) is at
 http://www.kitsite.com/~robin/ou-x-po/talk/0.title.html

The code for my "prisoner's JAPH":
 http://www.kitsite.com/~robin/ou-x-po/japh-prisoner.pl


In case anyone gets really obsessed, the code I used
to analyze font metrics is
 http://www.kitsite.com/~robin/ou-x-po/fontm.c
 http://www.kitsite.com/~robin/ou-x-po/prisoner.pl


Oh - and in case it inspires anyone, the keywords of
Lingua::Romana::Perligata which are permissible under
the prisoner's restriction are listed at
 http://www.kitsite.com/~robin/ou-x-po/LRP%20prisoner%20keywords


 .robin.



Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread alex

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:

ok i was a bit late ;)

-- 
Snack pastries are dramatic when shapes are combined





Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, you wrote:

 [gem@penderel gem]$ cat /proc/meminfo 
 total:used:free:  shared: buffers:  cached:
 Mem:  130895872 125063168  5832704 46772224 63795200 15314944
 Swap: 271392768  6909952 264482816
 MemTotal:127828 kB

if its of any intereset I was offered 133mhz DIMMS of the 256Mb flavour
for ~65 + vat the other day .. memory has plummetted now is a very good
time to buy.

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!



Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:

 * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  At Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:34:11 +, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  [upgrading penderel]
  
   What's the current specs of the machine? (Just out of interest)
  
  I'm not sure. I don't think I've ever known this. I'm hoping that 
  someone woh a) bought it or b) is sitting next to it will be able to
  leap in with this information.
 
 [gem@penderel gem]$ df -h
 FilesystemSize  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
 /dev/sda6 3.9G  879M  2.8G  24% /
 /dev/sda1 7.6M  2.9M  4.2M  41% /boot
 

OK that'll be another disk or two then - if there are going to be a number
of accounts on the machine then I would suggest /home should be a separate
disk.  I would vote for separate /usr /usr/local and /var partitions too.

/J\
-- 
Jonathan Stowe   |   
http://www.gellyfish.com |   I'm with Grep on this one 
http://www.tackleway.co.uk   |




Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread Michael Stevens

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 02:41:57PM +, Jonathan Stowe wrote:
  [gem@penderel gem]$ df -h
  FilesystemSize  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
  /dev/sda6 3.9G  879M  2.8G  24% /
  /dev/sda1 7.6M  2.9M  4.2M  41% /boot
  
 OK that'll be another disk or two then - if there are going to be a number
 of accounts on the machine then I would suggest /home should be a separate
 disk.  I would vote for separate /usr /usr/local and /var partitions too.

insert holy war here



RE: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread Jonathan Peterson

 Personally I'd be happier if we had mirrored disks in there.

I'd go for a backup system before a mirror, myself.




Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread Michael Stevens

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 02:37:24PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
  Personally I'd be happier if we had mirrored disks in there.
 I'd go for a backup system before a mirror, myself.

That could be good, too...

We definately need one of the two. (IMHO)

Michael



Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread Neil Ford

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 02:37:24PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
   Personally I'd be happier if we had mirrored disks in there.
  I'd go for a backup system before a mirror, myself.

That could be good, too...

We definately need one of the two. (IMHO)

Michael

Well a tape drive would be easier and (for the most part) cheaper to 
install. For mirroring you're either going to need a raid controller 
or use software raid... how good is that under linux?

Seeing as access to the box is not currently an issue, tape changing 
can be done .

Neil.
-- 
Neil C. Ford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.binky.ourshack.org



Oh! Idea for penderel!

2001-01-19 Thread Jonathan Peterson

I realise all the l33t people with their own boxen don't have this problem,
but I'm constantly annoyed by not having instant flexible control of my own
DNS.

Could we create domains for every user and then put the zone files in each
person's home dir, with a SUID script to kick named?

Then I could have *.jon.penderel.state51.co.uk and be able to quickly create
names and mx records for things when I need to, which is surprisingly often.
Everyone would get $USERNAME.penderel.state51.co.uk

I'm happy to set this up if anyone is interested (although, frankly, you'd
be mad to let me anywhere near a root password and a copy of bind)


Jonathan PetersonIdeas Hub Ltd
(t) +44 (0)20 7487 1310
www.ideashub.com






Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread Robert Shiels

- Original Message -
From: "Michael Stevens" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 19 January 2001 14:41
Subject: Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund


 On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 02:37:24PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
   Personally I'd be happier if we had mirrored disks in there.
  I'd go for a backup system before a mirror, myself.

 That could be good, too...

 We definately need one of the two. (IMHO)

ghh
definitely
/ghh
 that's better :-)

I think the backup system should be individual users writing cron jobs to
tar/gzip/ftp their stuff to other machines, or emailing it to their hotmail
accounts if they don't have other machines!

Who is planning to store data on penderel that they won't have somewhere
else anyway. I don't think we should ever rely on our data being there. I
have a local copy of everything that I have on other servers.

Perhaps I'm missing the point here...

/Robert




Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hatworm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Neil Ford

Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Piers Cawley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

   Big monitors on workstations are *not* rewards. They are essential
   tools for the job. Anything smaller than 19" is rapidly approaching
   too cramped for serious work. TFT monitors on workstations are
   rewards...

  19" on the first port of the G400, a TFT on the second?

Mmmm... so, when are we going to have a meeting about all this?

Well seeing as I will be amongst the great unwashed from next week, 
anytime soon would be good.

Neil.
-- 
Neil C. Ford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.binky.ourshack.org



RE: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread Jonathan Peterson

 Who is planning to store data on penderel that they won't
 have somewhere
 else anyway. I don't think we should ever rely on our data
 being there. I
 have a local copy of everything that I have on other servers.

What about applications running on penderel that generate data? Even if what
they generate is small, it's a royal PITA to be emailing it around the net
in the name of backup.

If you go for something like an 8 day retention period with weekly full and
daily differential backup, your backup data set would at most be double your
working data set (unless anyone has really funky plans for applications).
So, we need only buy two more of whatever size disk we want in there, and
backup to disk is a world more fun than backup to tape (unless we feel like
spashing out for a tape jukebox).

Or, just get the extra storage space and give everyone an allocation on it
that's double their allocation on the primary storage, and let them write
their own backup scripts. But unless we've already got quota's running (have
we?) that's not so practical maybe.

Jon 'yay! sysadmin!' Peterson




Re: Oh! Idea for penderel!

2001-01-19 Thread Dave Cross

At Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:52:54 -, "Jonathan Peterson" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Could we create domains for every user and then put the zone files in 
 each person's home dir, with a SUID script to kick named?
 
 Then I could have *.jon.penderel.state51.co.uk and be able to quickly 
 create names and mx records for things when I need to, which is 
 surprisingly often. Everyone would get 
 $USERNAME.penderel.state51.co.uk

Sounds like a fun idea to me, but then IANABOFH, so what do I know :)

 I'm happy to set this up if anyone is interested (although, frankly, 
 you'd be mad to let me anywhere near a root password and a copy of 
 bind)

Yep. Bind scares me too. You can do Really Bad Things with it.

Speaking of DNS, did we ever hear anything from the pm.org DNS people?

Dave...



Penderel query

2001-01-19 Thread Simon_Wilcox


Hi all,

  I've been lurking on the list for a while and am hoping to make the
  meeting on the 1st.

  Please excuse my ignorance with this question, but could someone outline
  what services penderel provides to account holders ?

  I've got 50 I'd be happy to contribute but I'd like to know what it gets
  me (other than a sense of satisfaction from furthering the perl cause :-)

  Simon.



__


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   prohibited.






Re: Penderel query

2001-01-19 Thread Leon Brocard

[EMAIL PROTECTED] sent the following bits through the ether:

   I've got 50 I'd be happy to contribute but I'd like to know what it gets
   me (other than a sense of satisfaction from furthering the perl cause :-)

Well, I'd suggest a donation to YAS (yetanother.org) would be better
if you really wished to further the Perl Cause[1]. That way they'll
have some more conferences and pay for Damian to fly all over the
world parsing stuff in crazy ways.

Leon

[1] Insert "I didn't know Perl" verb "The Coors" joke here
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/

... All new improved Brocard, now with Template Toolkit!



Re: Penderel query

2001-01-19 Thread Dave Cross

At Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:15:29 -0500 (EST), I wrote:
 
 Basically, you get an account on a server which is permanently 
 connected to the web.

Net! I meant net, goddamit. I'm very tired and have been absorbing too
much media that doesn't know the difference.

I'm sorry. I'll go and have a lie down.

Dave...



Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread Robert Shiels

  Who is planning to store data on penderel that they won't
  have somewhere
  else anyway. I don't think we should ever rely on our data
  being there. I
  have a local copy of everything that I have on other servers.

 So, we need only buy two more of whatever size disk we want in there, and
 backup to disk is a world more fun than backup to tape (unless we feel
like
 spashing out for a tape jukebox).

I like the idea of a backup disk and a procedure that automatically backs up
to it; I guess what I'm unhappy about is giving someone else the
responsibility for all our data and the job of managing tapes, that doesn't
seem fair.
From a security point of view (are we worried about hiding our data from
each other), the backup disk should only be readable by root. Yes? Or should
all the files retain the owners permissions so that we can restore our data
anytime we fancy without needing the sysadmin to do it. I like this plan.


/Robert




Re: Oh! Idea for penderel!

2001-01-19 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote:

 At Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:52:54 -, "Jonathan Peterson" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  Could we create domains for every user and then put the zone files in 
  each person's home dir, with a SUID script to kick named?
  
  Then I could have *.jon.penderel.state51.co.uk and be able to quickly 
  create names and mx records for things when I need to, which is 
  surprisingly often. Everyone would get 
  $USERNAME.penderel.state51.co.uk
 
 Sounds like a fun idea to me, but then IANABOFH, so what do I know :)
 
  I'm happy to set this up if anyone is interested (although, frankly, 
  you'd be mad to let me anywhere near a root password and a copy of 
  bind)
 
 Yep. Bind scares me too. You can do Really Bad Things with it.
 
 Speaking of DNS, did we ever hear anything from the pm.org DNS people?
 

Not from my initial e-mail - I have fired off another today and hope that
we might get some action.

/J\
-- 
Jonathan Stowe   |   
http://www.gellyfish.com |   I'm with Grep on this one 
http://www.tackleway.co.uk   |




Re: Compiling mod_perl on Debian

2001-01-19 Thread Niklas Nordebo

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 01:28:21PM +, Robin Houston wrote:
 Hope you enjoyed it...

Yes, I did.

Heres the URL to the IP location project I mentioned yesterday, by the way:
http://www.networldmap.com/

-- 
Niklas Nordebo -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 618, further transmissions
  to you by the sender may be stopped at NO COST to you by forwarding this
  e-mail to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=remove
 



Re: Oh! Idea for penderel!

2001-01-19 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote:

 At Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:52:54 -, "Jonathan Peterson" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  Could we create domains for every user and then put the zone files in 
  each person's home dir, with a SUID script to kick named?
  
  Then I could have *.jon.penderel.state51.co.uk and be able to quickly 
  create names and mx records for things when I need to, which is 
  surprisingly often. Everyone would get 
  $USERNAME.penderel.state51.co.uk
 
 Sounds like a fun idea to me, but then IANABOFH, so what do I know :)
 

If this is being considered  perhaps we ought to get the london.pm.org
subdomain delegated to penderel as well - this will allow us to fuck
things up on our own without having to worry the pm.org dns person .

/J\
-- 
Jonathan Stowe   |   
http://www.gellyfish.com |   I'm with Grep on this one 
http://www.tackleway.co.uk   |




RE: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread Gareth Harper
Title: RE: Hardware Upgrade Fund





I don't know about anyone else, but I'm quite happy to provide some money, but I'd much prefer to do a direct bank cash transfer (through online banking) I don't know if you'd want to publicise your bank acvcount details on the list, but if this is all going ahead and you don't mind transfers then can you send me your bank details and I'll set up the transfer. if anyone else is interested in that then I'd suggest to keep the traffic off the list then email alex in person.

-Original Message-
From: alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 19 January 2001 12:42
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund



On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
 Thanks for the offer. I'm more that happy to take you up on it.


no problems.


 How soon do you think you can have a list of the kinds of hardware
 that you want to buy? That would give us an estimate of how many new
 donors we're looking for.


I'd prefer to do it the other way round if you don't mind, and say you
have just one month to send a cheque for 50 pounds made out to C A McLean
[1] to state51, 8 rhoda street, bethnal green, e2 7ef , or brought along
to the next social or technical meeting.


At the end of the month I'll let you all know what money we have and we
can then decide what to do with it.



Alex


[1] My first name is actually Christopher, but handily my parents changed
their minds after registering my birth and decided to call me by my middle
name.


PS The guy with the tennants extra broke in to another part of the
building and caused some damage to a couple of studios :( it seems that he
couldn't find anything to steal, but still, not nice.


-- 
Snack pastries are dramatic when shapes are combined





Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Leon Brocard

Dave Hodgkinson sent the following bits through the ether:

 Sounds like a table at the New World one lunchtime...

OK. We might as well do this quickly, how about Monday 12.30 at the
New World restaurant in Chinatown. Everyone who is vaguely interested
in a Perl Consultancy of some sort is invited. People with business
sense needed too, though: offices, computers and bandwidth don't come
cheap.

Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/

... All new improved Brocard, now with Template Toolkit!



Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund

2001-01-19 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 02:42:19PM +, Neil Ford wrote:
 On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 02:37:24PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
Personally I'd be happier if we had mirrored disks in there.
   I'd go for a backup system before a mirror, myself.
 
 That could be good, too...
 
 We definately need one of the two. (IMHO)
 
 Michael
 
 Well a tape drive would be easier and (for the most part) cheaper to 
 install. For mirroring you're either going to need a raid controller 
 or use software raid... how good is that under linux?

It's very usable.  At Oven, we used it for the main mail-and-stuff server,
managing something like a hundred gig of disk in RAID-5 loveliness.

Personally, I don't like tapes.  They go wrong easily and someone has to
remember to swap the media.  I favour doing backups to another machine
with rsync.  This has the advantage that you can do far more frequent
backups.  Perhaps that's what we should spend the upgrade money on -
a cheap-ass machine with a bg cheap IDE disk to handle backups *only*.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

   Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced



Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Neil Ford

When I got home last night there were two big boxes from Dell waiting
in the middle of the lounge. This is my new 1400 Mhz Pentium IV,
256 Mb Turbo Bastard Nutter machine.

One of the (many) advantages of having a new box is that I'll be able
to do a completely fresh Linux install for the first time for many
years. My current box has been upgraded thru every version of Red Hat
since (I think) 4.1 to its current 7.0.

I could, of course, take the easy route and whack RH7 on it, but this
may be my best chance for some years to _easily_ switch distros.

So I'm looking for advice on the best distro to use. Bear in mind that
the existing box will currently become a firewall/proxy box so I'll
do all the paranoid security stuff on there.

Go for it. Give it your best shot.

Let battle commence.

Dave...

Well following recent discussions brought about by Jo's laptop 
purchase, I'd say the favour list goes something like this;

Debian
Slackware / SuSE
a deadrat derivitive (if you must)

No-one ever seems to mention TurboLinux or any of the minor distributions.

Of course I would strongly suggest investigating a BSD :-)

Neil.
-- 
Neil C. Ford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.binky.ourshack.org



Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Dave Cross

At Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:33:57 +, Roger Burton West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On or about Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 10:29:18AM -0500, Dave Cross typed:
 
 So I'm looking for advice on the best distro to use.
 
 What are you planning to do on the box?

It'll be purely for home use, so:

* Hacking perl
* Prototyping web sites
* Playing with new toys like AxKit and Camelot
* Write
* Surf the web
* Read mail
* Play the occasional game
* Listen to MPs
* Burn CDs

Sort of stuff we all do.

Dave...



Re: Oh! Idea for penderel!

2001-01-19 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 02:52:54PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote:

 I'm happy to set this up if anyone is interested (although, frankly, you'd
 be mad to let me anywhere near a root password and a copy of bind)

Heh.  djbdns is, despite being a bernsteinism, very good.  For values of
'very good' which are equivalent to 'not bind'.  It's smaller, easier to
configure, and more secure.  All in all, it's a Jolly Good Thing.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

   Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced



Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Dave Hodgkinson


Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Go for it. Give it your best shot. 

Mandrake 7.2.

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire
  -



Re: Oh! Idea for penderel!

2001-01-19 Thread Michael Stevens

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 03:31:00PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
 On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 02:52:54PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
  I'm happy to set this up if anyone is interested (although, frankly, you'd
  be mad to let me anywhere near a root password and a copy of bind)
 Heh.  djbdns is, despite being a bernsteinism, very good.  For values of
 'very good' which are equivalent to 'not bind'.  It's smaller, easier to
 configure, and more secure.  All in all, it's a Jolly Good Thing.

aol



Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 10:39:47AM -0500, Dave Cross typed:

It'll be purely for home use, so:

I'd use Debian 'cos I like it. Downside: latest versions of stuff
aren't usually available as packages. Upside: doesn't mess you about
the way the Windowsy distributions (RH, SuSE) do.

R



Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Michael Stevens

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 10:29:18AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote:
 So I'm looking for advice on the best distro to use. Bear in mind that
 the existing box will currently become a firewall/proxy box so I'll 
 do all the paranoid security stuff on there.
 Go for it. Give it your best shot. 
 Let battle commence.

Debian.

Or, if you want uber-paranoia, OpenBSD.

Michael



Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Richard Clamp

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 03:44:42PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
 I'd use Debian 'cos I like it. Downside: latest versions of stuff
 aren't usually available as packages.

Untrue, if you're following the testing/unstable branch and have sufficient
bandwidth that is.


-- 
Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: thoth

2001-01-19 Thread Mark Rogaski

An entity claiming to be Roger Burton West ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: On or about Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 01:35:32AM -0500, Mark Rogaski typed:
: 
: That would be c.l.p.m ... unless of course you aren't referring to Tom.
: 
: You weren't at the technical meeting last night, were you? This thoth
: is a network monitoring system.
: 

Some would argue the same point for common c.l.p.m posters.

Mark

-- 
Mark Rogaski  | "What in the ding-dong-heckama-doodle
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |  hell is that?"
http://www.pobox.com/~wendigo |   -- a farmer in the 1992
__END__   |  movie "Seedpeople"

 PGP signature


Re: Oh! Idea for penderel!

2001-01-19 Thread Michael Stevens

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 03:48:03PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
 On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 03:43:28PM +, Michael Stevens wrote:
  On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 03:31:00PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
   Heh.  djbdns is, despite being a bernsteinism, very good.  For values of
   'very good' which are equivalent to 'not bind'.  It's smaller, easier to
   configure, and more secure.  All in all, it's a Jolly Good Thing.
  aol
 
 However, I don't believe it supports some of the more weird DNS entries
 you can have like HINFO and LOC records.
 
 [dcantrel@tim-the-enchanter dcantrel]$ nslookup
  set type=HINFO
  ariadne.barnyard.co.uk
 
 ariadne.barnyard.co.ukCPU = Amstrad CPC   OS = Amsdos / CPCIP
 
 Yay!  Not supporting such silliness may be considered a Bad Thing by some
 people.

I'm fairly sure it is supported, through an escape that allows you
to return any record type.

--cut--
:fqdn:n:rdata:ttl:timestamp:lo

Generic record for fqdn. tinydns-data creates a record of type n for
fqdn showing rdata. n must be an integer between 1 and 65535. The proper
format of rdata depends on n. You may use octal \nnn codes to include
arbitrary bytes inside rdata.
--cut--

(from http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/tinydns-data.html)

Michael



Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Michael Stevens

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 04:02:01PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
 On or about Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 03:58:41PM +, Richard Clamp typed:
 On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 03:44:42PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
  I'd use Debian 'cos I like it. Downside: latest versions of stuff
  aren't usually available as packages.
 Untrue, if you're following the testing/unstable branch and have sufficient
 bandwidth that is.
 Depends on what you mean by "latest". Give it a week or two to get into
 unstable, a few more to get into testing - fair enough?
 Not what I'd use for CPAN modules, for example.

And, of course, there's the obvious downside of following the unstable
branch of anything...

Michael



Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Leon Brocard

Dave Cross sent the following bits through the ether:

 I'd love to come along, but probably wouldn't have time to get there
 and back during lunch. Can we do it one evening?

OK, Penderel's Oak 6.30pm for those who can't make it to lunch. I'll
go to both and take notes.

Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/

... All new improved Brocard, now with Template Toolkit!



Re: Oh! Idea for penderel!

2001-01-19 Thread Simon Wistow

David Cantrell wrote:

 However, I don't believe it supports some of the more weird DNS entries
 you can have like HINFO and LOC records.

You learn fast young Grasshopper. Oh, wait. You weren't there last
night.

http://www.2shortplanks.com/simon/ip2ll/2.html



Re: AUTOLOAD speed

2001-01-19 Thread Leon Brocard

Simon Wistow sent the following bits through the ether:

 And thought ... would it be big performance hit if I did this through
 AUTOLOAD.

Right, that does it. The next two talks I'm gonna do will be
"Introduction to Benchmarking with Perl and the Bechmark module" and
"Introduction to Testing with Perl and the Test module".

Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/

... All new improved Brocard, now with Template Toolkit!



Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Redvers Davies

What I do:

For a workstation, Mandrake.
For a server, Slackware.

Once you've done the install forget that rpm existed and do everything
from source.

Red




RE:Consultancy company

2001-01-19 Thread Andy Wardley

On Jan 18,  4:28pm, Leo Lapworth wrote:
 Ok, it's all a pipedream.. but what a nice one.

It sounds like an excellent idea.  In fact, I've even got as far as
writing a (fledgling) business plan for such a venture based around
Template Toolkit-ish web development, support and consultancy.  It's
something that Simon Matthews and I have been talking about for a couple
of years, but never really quite got around to taking the plunge.  I
was about to jump but work related improvments of the last few
weeks have pushed it back onto the back burner.

Now, what would it take to convince you that there are nicer places to
work than central London?  Guildford, for example, is quite wonderful
and only a train ride away from the smoke... :-)=

On the matter of funding, I have a friend who works for Goldman Sachs
who offered to put me in touch with VC somewhere in the range of 2 - 10m.
No favours, no guarantees, but at least a foot in the door and the offer
of waving a business plan under the noses of the right kind of people.
Of course, you might argue that GS != Right Kind of People  :-)

But like others, I'm not convinced that VC is the way to go unless you
really have to.  Having said that, if you want to start big and grow
big quickly, I can't see a way to do that without significant moolah up
front.  Maybe that means "really have to"?

One consideration worth playing on is that good Perl people are hard
to come by.  As a scarce resource, we might be able to convince backers
that a solid collection of guru and demi-guru level Perl people represents
a mighty design/development/consultancy force which could quickly corner
a large chunk of the market.

I'd love to come to the meeting and hear the ideas, but I've done my
trip to London for this month :-)


A

Pipe dreamer.

-- 
Andy Wardley [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Signature regenerating.  Please remain seated.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/



Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Redvers Davies

 All I'll say about mandrake is that we have a mandrake box at work and
 when you run printtool the cdrom ejects.

You couldn't do an strace on that so we see what causes that could you?
I would have thought a hardware conflict would be the most likely cause
there...

Red



Re: AUTOLOAD speed

2001-01-19 Thread Dave Cross

At Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:02:23 +, Simon Wistow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I was just typing this ...
 
 # Unsigned int  8bit
 sub ui8()   { my $self; = shift; $self-UI8()}   
 
 # Unsigned int 16bit
 sub ui16()  {  my $self; = shift; $self-UI16()  }  
 sub Word()  {  my $self; = shift; $self-UI16()  }
 sub word()  {  my $self; = shift; $self-UI16()  }
 
 ... 
 
 And thought ... would it be big performance hit if I did this through
 AUTOLOAD.

How about something like this (at the file level of your package):

*ui8 = \U18;
*ui16 = \UI16;
*Word = \UI16;
*word = \UI16;

Typeglobs are your friend.

Dave...
[who doesn't like to encourage people to use AUTOLOAD as it has
potential to break Symbol::Approx::Sub]



Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Struan Donald

* at 19/01 16:12 + Redvers Davies said:
  All I'll say about mandrake is that we have a mandrake box at work and
  when you run printtool the cdrom ejects.
 
 You couldn't do an strace on that so we see what causes that could you?
 I would have thought a hardware conflict would be the most likely cause
 there...

i'm not if the box still exists. i could have a look and see though...

struan



Re: AUTOLOAD speed

2001-01-19 Thread Simon Wistow

Dave Cross wrote:
 
 *ui8 = \U18;
 *ui16 = \UI16;
 *Word = \UI16;
 *word = \UI16;

That's the ticket.

Brain still fried today.



Re: Oh! Idea for penderel!

2001-01-19 Thread Elaine -HFB- Ashton

Jonathan Stowe [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth:
* 
* Speaking of DNS, did we ever hear anything from the pm.org DNS people?
* 
*
*Not from my initial e-mail - I have fired off another today and hope that
*we might get some action.

As far as I know, Ben Hockenhull is still doing DNS for the PM box though
it may take some time as things are in trasition from one place to another
and DNS changes probably aren't high in the queue.

e.



Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Dave Hodgkinson

Struan Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 * at 19/01 14:44 + Dave Hodgkinson said:
  
  Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
   Go for it. Give it your best shot. 
  
  Mandrake 7.2.
 
 All I'll say about mandrake is that we have a mandrake box at work and
 when you run printtool the cdrom ejects.

Nothing wrong with committing random acts of weirdness


-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire
  -



Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Elaine -HFB- Ashton

Dave Cross [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth:
*
*So I'm looking for advice on the best distro to use. Bear in mind that
*the existing box will currently become a firewall/proxy box so I'll 
*do all the paranoid security stuff on there.
*
*Go for it. Give it your best shot. 
*
*Let battle commence.

OpenBSD is the best choice for a firewall box. It's fast, small, secure
and runs ona  myriad of platforms. I use it at home for my firewall and
have started sneaking it in at work. It's tag line is 'secure by default'
and from a base installation you won't get the same from most, if not all,
linux distros.

This is my opinion and I'm not terribly interested in a holy war. 

http://www.openbsd.org/

e.



Re: PIMB THC-shirts

2001-01-19 Thread Andy Wardley

On Jan 19,  9:39am, Steve Mynott wrote:
 THC isn't water soluble at all which is why you have to dissolve the
 stuff in hot fat before cooking it.

I belive that's true, but according to the paper I just found, presumably
the one Paul was referring to, the paper suggests that some THC *is* lost
when using a bong.

  http://www.ukcia.org/lib/pipes.htm

But note that the paper doesn't offer or claim any scientific evidence to
back this up, merely notes that "This suggests...".  I suspect the goodies
are getting stuck to the bowl, pipe, dirt and tar particles in the water,
but not actually dissolving the water as such.

If I were the kind of person to partake in such affairs, I'd suggest
that some objective testing is required.  But of course, I wouldn't want
to indulge in any activity which our wise and esteemed goverments have
decided is dangerous, immoral and quite sensibly illegal.  Nor would I
want to encourage anyone else to break the law.

Note that I also refrain from drinking tea as it's known to be
a gateway drug, according to the clear evidence that 97.2% of all
heroin addicts drank tea before progressing onto harder substance
abuse.  Be warned people!  Stick with tobacco, alcohol and the other
drugs which have been deemed safe enough for us to be trusted with.


A




-- 
Andy Wardley [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Signature regenerating.  Please remain seated.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/



Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Robert Shiels wrote:

 Apart from the games perhaps, I'm just wondering what a PIV1400Mhz will do
 that a PII350 wouldn't :-) What was your inner justification for getting
 such a monster machine Dave?
 

Some people buy Ferraris.

/J\
-- 
Jonathan Stowe   |   
http://www.gellyfish.com |   I'm with Grep on this one 
http://www.tackleway.co.uk   |




Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Dave Cross

At Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:33:40 -, "Robert Shiels" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   What are you planning to do on the box?
 
  It'll be purely for home use, so:
 
  * Hacking perl
  * Prototyping web sites
  * Playing with new toys like AxKit and Camelot
  * Write
  * Surf the web
  * Read mail
  * Play the occasional game
  * Listen to MPs
  * Burn CDs
 
 Apart from the games perhaps, I'm just wondering what a PIV1400Mhz 
 will do that a PII350 wouldn't :-) What was your inner justification 
 for getting such a monster machine Dave?

Heh! Dell's January sale prices were so good that it would have been
rude not too :)

Seriously, my current machine is a PentiumPro 200 Mhz and that's 
getting so frustrating that I knew I needed a new machine and I 
always buy the fastest I can so it will last as long as possible.

Dave...



Re: Consultancy company

2001-01-19 Thread Greg Cope

Andy Wardley wrote:
 
 On Jan 18,  4:28pm, Leo Lapworth wrote:
  Ok, it's all a pipedream.. but what a nice one.
 
 It sounds like an excellent idea.  In fact, I've even got as far as
 writing a (fledgling) business plan for such a venture based around
 Template Toolkit-ish web development, support and consultancy.  It's
 something that Simon Matthews and I have been talking about for a couple
 of years, but never really quite got around to taking the plunge.  I
 was about to jump but work related improvments of the last few
 weeks have pushed it back onto the back burner.
 
 Now, what would it take to convince you that there are nicer places to
 work than central London?  Guildford, for example, is quite wonderful
 and only a train ride away from the smoke... :-)=

Agreed - why work in London - what about telecommuters ?

i.e I want to stay communtin to my desk - all 3 meters of it (the
commute - I live in a small flat)

 
 On the matter of funding, I have a friend who works for Goldman Sachs
 who offered to put me in touch with VC somewhere in the range of 2 - 10m.
 No favours, no guarantees, but at least a foot in the door and the offer
 of waving a business plan under the noses of the right kind of people.
 Of course, you might argue that GS != Right Kind of People  :-)
 
 But like others, I'm not convinced that VC is the way to go unless you
 really have to.  Having said that, if you want to start big and grow
 big quickly, I can't see a way to do that without significant moolah up
 front.  Maybe that means "really have to"?

Why need a VC's money for a consultancy - shurely most people involved
will have all the required kit (PC's / laptops) and all that may be
required is a small office.

A Consultantcy can raise cash quick via charging monthly like anyone
else - ok not everyone pays on time, but if a few do then thats cash in
the bank (especially as you pay everyone else at the end of the month.)

 
 One consideration worth playing on is that good Perl people are hard
 to come by.  As a scarce resource, we might be able to convince backers
 that a solid collection of guru and demi-guru level Perl people represents
 a mighty design/development/consultancy force which could quickly corner
 a large chunk of the market.
 
 I'd love to come to the meeting and hear the ideas, but I've done my
 trip to London for this month :-)

I've been 5 times this week - that's nearly my years quota !

Greg

 
 A
 
 Pipe dreamer.
 
 --
 Andy Wardley [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Signature regenerating.  Please remain seated.
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/



Re: AUTOLOAD speed

2001-01-19 Thread Simon Wistow

Robin Houston wrote:

 Although the best solution would (obviously) be to
 use Symbol::Approx::Sub with an appropriate matcher :-)

[simon@ns0 simon]$ cat globtest
#!/usr/bin/perl

*foo = \UI;

UI16();
UI32();
SI402();
foo12();


sub UI () {
print $_[0],"\n";
}

sub SI() {
print $_[0],"\n";
}

sub AUTOLOAD
{
my ($name) = $AUTOLOAD;
$name =~ /^[^:]+::([^\d]+)(\d+)/  $1($2);
}
[simon@ns0 simon]$ perl globtest
16
32
402
12
[simon@ns0 simon]$



Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Struan Donald

* at 19/01 16:33 - Robert Shiels said:
  
   What are you planning to do on the box?
 
  It'll be purely for home use, so:
 
  * Hacking perl
  * Prototyping web sites
  * Playing with new toys like AxKit and Camelot
  * Write
  * Surf the web
  * Read mail
  * Play the occasional game
  * Listen to MPs
  * Burn CDs
 
 Apart from the games perhaps, I'm just wondering what a PIV1400Mhz will do
 that a PII350 wouldn't :-) What was your inner justification for getting
 such a monster machine Dave?

that geek tendancy to get a farcially over powered machine 'cause they
can?

struan



Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Robert Shiels

 At Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:33:40 -, "Robert Shiels" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
   
What are you planning to do on the box?
  
   It'll be purely for home use, so:
  
   * Hacking perl
   * Prototyping web sites
   * Playing with new toys like AxKit and Camelot
   * Write
   * Surf the web
   * Read mail
   * Play the occasional game
   * Listen to MPs
   * Burn CDs
  
  Apart from the games perhaps, I'm just wondering what a PIV1400Mhz
  will do that a PII350 wouldn't :-) What was your inner justification
  for getting such a monster machine Dave?

 Seriously, my current machine is a PentiumPro 200 Mhz and that's
 getting so frustrating that I knew I needed a new machine and I
 always buy the fastest I can so it will last as long as possible.

I'm just annoyed in that I quite recently bought a PIII866 with 256MbRAM
[1], and I'm way behind in the game already g

/Robert

[1]upgraded my P166MMX 64MB RAM




Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Natalie Ford

At 14:55 19/01/01, Neil Ford wrote:
 Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Mmmm... so, when are we going to have a meeting about all this?
Well seeing as I will be amongst the great unwashed from next week,
anytime soon would be good.

AOLMe too!/AOL




Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Natalie Ford

At 15:49 19/01/01, Dave Cross wrote:
I'd love to come along, but probably wouldn't have time to get there
and back during lunch. Can we do it one evening?

An evening would be better for me, too...

Natalie




Re: Holy War

2001-01-19 Thread Redvers Davies

 Seriously, my current machine is a PentiumPro 200 Mhz and that's 
 getting so frustrating that I knew I needed a new machine and I 
 always buy the fastest I can so it will last as long as possible.

Was it a self-congratulations pressie for the publication of your book.



Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Piers Cawley

Leon Brocard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Dave Hodgkinson sent the following bits through the ether:
 
  Sounds like a table at the New World one lunchtime...
 
 OK. We might as well do this quickly, how about Monday 12.30 at the
 New World restaurant in Chinatown. Everyone who is vaguely
 interested in a Perl Consultancy of some sort is invited. People
 with business sense needed too, though: offices, computers and
 bandwidth don't come cheap.

Put me down for that. Might bring Gill as well. 

-- 
Piers




Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat wormdiscovered

2001-01-19 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On 19 Jan 2001, Piers Cawley wrote:
 
 Put me down for that. Might bring Gill as well. 
 

It seems like every tom dick and harry's other half is called Gill around
here :)

/J\
-- 
Jonathan Stowe   |   
http://www.gellyfish.com |   I'm with Grep on this one 
http://www.tackleway.co.uk   |




Re: Consultancy company

2001-01-19 Thread Greg Cope

Piers Cawley wrote:
 
 Greg Cope [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  Andy Wardley wrote:
  
   On Jan 18,  4:28pm, Leo Lapworth wrote:
Ok, it's all a pipedream.. but what a nice one.
  
   It sounds like an excellent idea.  In fact, I've even got as far as
   writing a (fledgling) business plan for such a venture based around
   Template Toolkit-ish web development, support and consultancy.  It's
   something that Simon Matthews and I have been talking about for a couple
   of years, but never really quite got around to taking the plunge.  I
   was about to jump but work related improvments of the last few
   weeks have pushed it back onto the back burner.
  
   Now, what would it take to convince you that there are nicer places to
   work than central London?  Guildford, for example, is quite wonderful
   and only a train ride away from the smoke... :-)=
 
  Agreed - why work in London - what about telecommuters ?
 
  i.e I want to stay communtin to my desk - all 3 meters of it (the
  commute - I live in a small flat)
 
 I'm *really* unsure about telecommuting. Seems to me that the way to
 really build a team (especially when doing serious development) is to
 have people in the same room; that way you get people who know the
 answers immediately on tap and able to overhear other discussions and
 contribute as appropriate. Whilst I love the journey to work in the
 home office I don't like the rest of the office conditions. Having
 people there is important.

I can understand the idea of building a team, but I think I am more
productive here, than in an office where I am nearly constantly
interupted.  Also not being able to ask a question of the person next
door, means I go look for the answer - and the person next door can get
on with it.

MySQL AB is a example of a company that is developeing a "product" in a
virtual sense - why not try and develope a virtual company ?

 
 And I like central London because (whatever else is wrong with it)
 it's relatively easy for everyone to get to by train no matter where
 they live. Trekking out to (for example) Guildford wouldn't be good
 for me.

But is treking into insert that good to working from home ?  ADSL is
cheap and working from home can be supprisingly productive.

Greg

who has so little work may have to commute to London every day ;-(

 
 --
 Piers



Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Alex Page

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 09:27:18AM +, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:

 It should be mandatory for all public servants to be adept at Sim
 City.

IIRC, Sim City is one of Ken Livingstone's favorites.

Alex



Re: Consultancy company

2001-01-19 Thread Natalie Ford

At 17:42 19/01/01, you wrote:
Piers Cawley wrote:
  Greg Cope [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
   Agreed - why work in London - what about telecommuters ?
  
   i.e I want to stay communtin to my desk - all 3 meters of it (the
   commute - I live in a small flat)
 
  I'm *really* unsure about telecommuting. Seems to me that the way to
  really build a team (especially when doing serious development) is to
  have people in the same room; that way you get people who know the
  answers immediately on tap and able to overhear other discussions and
  contribute as appropriate. Whilst I love the journey to work in the
  home office I don't like the rest of the office conditions. Having
  people there is important.

I can understand the idea of building a team, but I think I am more
productive here, than in an office where I am nearly constantly
interupted.  Also not being able to ask a question of the person next
door, means I go look for the answer - and the person next door can get
on with it.

MySQL AB is a example of a company that is developeing a "product" in a
virtual sense - why not try and develope a virtual company ?

Sounds like a great idea.  Personally, as someone with M.S. (the MonSter), 
I need to be able to nap as and when I need to and work as and when I am 
able to.  Working from home allows me to do this...

  And I like central London because (whatever else is wrong with it)
  it's relatively easy for everyone to get to by train no matter where
  they live. Trekking out to (for example) Guildford wouldn't be good
  for me.

But is treking into insert that good to working from home ?  ADSL is
cheap and working from home can be supprisingly productive.

I can do 200% as much work at home because I can work when and as I feel 
able to and so work when I am my most productive.




Re: OT : DVD

2001-01-19 Thread David H. Adler

On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 03:32:53PM +, Paul Mison wrote:
 On 15/01/2001 at 21:12 +, mallum wrote:
  ^
 
 Your clock's wrong...

Maybe he's just really obsessed with Rush...

dha

-- 
David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/



Re: Consultancy company

2001-01-19 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, you wrote:

  But is treking into insert that good to working from home ?  ADSL is
  cheap and working from home can be supprisingly productive.
 
 Where it's available. That would be 'not from my exchange in the
 forseeable future...'

ISDN is cool .. and from this quarters BT bil I only was connected for a
paltry 786 hours too ...

:)

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!



Re: Consultancy company

2001-01-19 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, you wrote:

 I can do 200% as much work at home because I can work when and as I feel 
 able to and so work when I am my most productive.

well having spent the last year telecommuting I can affirm that it does
let you sometimes work at phenomeonal rates

But I also can see the other side .. contact and 'just being able to ask'
is important too .. the telephone still works, and when I worked in a
building full of people I;d just as lilely phone em up or email em as
walk round to their office to see them. I'd say on balance that both have
merit. at white heat development pace its better to be all in one room ..
when its thrashed out and just needs plain doing, then wandering off home
and doing it when it feels best is just as powerful.

I'd see an ideal solution as being flexible and not pre constraining
yourselves to a fixed pattern. If you prefer one type of working much
over another then do it that way .. both have merit.

and I'm still dead keen to be involved in an XP project :))

whatever .. if you lot are going to be in Chinatown on Monday thats as
good a reason as any I can see for making a trip to the smoke ... see ya
there. 

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!



Re: Consultancy company

2001-01-19 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 05:04:54PM +, Piers Cawley wrote:

 I'm *really* unsure about telecommuting. Seems to me that the way to
 really build a team (especially when doing serious development) is to
 have people in the same room;

Plus there's too many distractions at home.  Even if you live on your own.
It's great to have the capability - for those evening brainwaves, or if
you're ill - but doing it every day just doesn't work, at least for me.

 And I like central London because (whatever else is wrong with it)
 it's relatively easy for everyone to get to by train no matter where
 they live. Trekking out to (for example) Guildford wouldn't be good
 for me.

Yeah.  What he said.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

   Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced



Re: Consultancy company

2001-01-19 Thread Greg Cope

Piers Cawley wrote:
 
 Greg Cope [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  Piers Cawley wrote:
  
   Greg Cope [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
Andy Wardley wrote:

 On Jan 18,  4:28pm, Leo Lapworth wrote:
  Ok, it's all a pipedream.. but what a nice one.

 It sounds like an excellent idea.  In fact, I've even got as far as
 writing a (fledgling) business plan for such a venture based around
 Template Toolkit-ish web development, support and consultancy.  It's
 something that Simon Matthews and I have been talking about for a couple
 of years, but never really quite got around to taking the plunge.  I
 was about to jump but work related improvments of the last few
 weeks have pushed it back onto the back burner.

 Now, what would it take to convince you that there are nicer places to
 work than central London?  Guildford, for example, is quite wonderful
 and only a train ride away from the smoke... :-)=
   
Agreed - why work in London - what about telecommuters ?
   
i.e I want to stay communtin to my desk - all 3 meters of it (the
commute - I live in a small flat)
  
   I'm *really* unsure about telecommuting. Seems to me that the way to
   really build a team (especially when doing serious development) is to
   have people in the same room; that way you get people who know the
   answers immediately on tap and able to overhear other discussions and
   contribute as appropriate. Whilst I love the journey to work in the
   home office I don't like the rest of the office conditions. Having
   people there is important.
 
  I can understand the idea of building a team, but I think I am more
  productive here, than in an office where I am nearly constantly
  interupted. Also not being able to ask a question of the person next
  door, means I go look for the answer - and the person next door can
  get on with it.
 
 Hmm... Have you looked at the XP books?
 

XP ?

  MySQL AB is a example of a company that is developeing a "product" in a
  virtual sense - why not try and develope a virtual company ?
 
 Well, clients probably like offices. Admittedly not necessarily a
 *good* argument.
 

Ah well there I agree - a posh office creates an impression that alot of
big clients (read high revenue clients), find appealing. 

I've not argued against an office - just the idea that everyone has to
be in it all the time !

 
  
   And I like central London because (whatever else is wrong with it)
   it's relatively easy for everyone to get to by train no matter where
   they live. Trekking out to (for example) Guildford wouldn't be good
   for me.
 
  But is treking into insert that good to working from home ?  ADSL is
  cheap and working from home can be supprisingly productive.
 
 Where it's available. That would be 'not from my exchange in the
 forseeable future...'

Ah well, I want to move to Cornwall which will not get adsl for another
few years ;-(

Greg



Re: Consultancy company

2001-01-19 Thread Greg Cope

David Cantrell wrote:
 
 On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 05:04:54PM +, Piers Cawley wrote:
 
  I'm *really* unsure about telecommuting. Seems to me that the way to
  really build a team (especially when doing serious development) is to
  have people in the same room;
 
 Plus there's too many distractions at home.  Even if you live on your own.
 It's great to have the capability - for those evening brainwaves, or if
 you're ill - but doing it every day just doesn't work, at least for me.
 

That should read there's too many distractions at home for me  (or
you as the case may be).

I am about 150% more productive at home - 25 % because I save the
journey, and the other 25% due to not having to go to meetings / going
for long lunches / the chat that turns into a tangenical discussion on
XZY / some Luser or PBH asking a stupid question that they could have
worked out themselves if I was not there / insert any other activity
that takes me away from the task in hand.

Sorry the above turned into a rant, I just get a bit pissed off with
closed minds that assume that having people in an office = productivity.

Yes there are advantages to working in an office - i.e the team can be
greater than the sum of its parts.

But working from elsewhere also allows idividuals to be productive -
often alot more.

Why not combine the two - i.e have a day a week where everyone meets to
brainstorm / ask questions / do what needs to be done to take advantage
of a group.

Rant over.

Greg

  And I like central London because (whatever else is wrong with it)
  it's relatively easy for everyone to get to by train no matter where
  they live. Trekking out to (for example) Guildford wouldn't be good
  for me.
 
 Yeah.  What he said.
 
 --
 David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/
 
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced



RE: RE:Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered

2001-01-19 Thread Andy Mendelsohn



 From: Paul Makepeace [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 
 From: "David Cantrell" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Is a million considered a lot in the UK still?
 
  Not by people who can add up.
 
 OK, same here then. Having said that, it's amazing how much people can
 stretch a few $currency_unit if they *don't* have investment :-)
 
   But then so's a 24hr stretch of uninterrupted electricity
 
  Yeah, it's always amazed me just how crap the north 
 American power system
  seems to be.  Even in cities.
 
 This is a different issue, 
 http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/power.crisis/
 
 The US has much more to worry about than the UK, like high 
 water tables,
 vicious weather and earthquakes. The smart money goes on 
 hosting in Texas
 (San Antonio) not California though -- relatively
 earthquake/tornado/storm/etc-free!
 
 On the upside, the US doesn't have BT "engineers" to deal with...
 

No, the US has PacBell engineers and countless tin-pot, unregulated ISPs who
offer you DSL service, take your deposit money and then promptly go bust
FSCKRS

Oh, and none of these people ever talk to each other.

mail to DSL provider:   Where's my DSL?
Reply:  problems with PacBell. We'll get back to you

2 weeks later:
mail to DSL provider (COVAD):   Where's my DSL?
Reply:  Please contact your ISP.

mail to ISP:Where's my DSL eh? It's been four weeks since you mailed me
to expect a visit from PacBell 'within the next few days'.
Reply:  SILENCE

Call ISP to shout at automated call-handler: WHERE's MY DSL!!
Reply:  Sorry, due to the number of enquiries, we're unable to take your
call at present. please call back.

mail to DSL provider:   I can't get through to my ISP, either by phone or
email, will you please cancel the order
Reply:  Please contact your ISP.

Oh, well, that's a $50 deposit blown away.

rant over...idleness resumed.

andy



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