Re: Video Tips

2001-01-29 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Robin Szemeti ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

 [1]philips 2000 format, years ahead of its time, turn the tapes over like
 an audio cassette, 8 hours per tape, perfect picture in still frame
 (due to video head mounted on a piezo slab)  earlies 80's tecnology!..
 ahhh .. and we got spit vhs instead .. ho hum.
 

don't look at bad technology that becomes the de facto choice as bad
technology, look at it as a catalyst to the next generation of
technology

Greg

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: TPC5

2001-01-29 Thread DJ Adams

On Sat, Jan 20, 2001 at 12:28:03PM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote:
 I want tutorial, paper, and talk proposals.  Tutorials are a half- or
 full-day.  Papers are 25 minutes long, and intended to be high-quality
 and academicish.  Talks can be more informal and are either 25, 40, or
 90 minutes in length.

Yay. Piers and I sent a presentation proposal last week. 

dj



Re: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-29 Thread Philip Newton

Mark Fowler wrote:
 [2] Bath.pm roots showing.  We used to discuss a fair amount 
 of technical (but not necessary perl related) stuff.  From
 this, I quickly progressed into the well rounded perl programmer
 I am today

Is that "well rounded perl programmer" in the sense that "grep is well
rounded"?

g,drvvf

Cheers,
Philip



template toolkit .. one more kwestion

2001-01-29 Thread Robin Szemeti


OK .. this ones driving me dippy ..

I'm playing with Template::Toolkit with a bit of MySQL and the usual
things ... so I wrote a few functions that retreive lists of err stuff.
for speed i use dbi's fetchall_arrayref which returns a reference to an
array of references to arrays ...uh huh I dereference it and pass
the resulting array back out to my template for use in a 
[% FOREACH item = getItemList(category) %]
because the array is full of references to arrays I then access each
itemid as [% item.0 %]
this works fine if the function returns a list with more than one thing
in it .. if there is only one thing in the array I get a 'dont know how
to access [ 3 ].0  if for example item 3 is returned.

if I access the result as just plain [% item %] it works fine if there is
one item in the list .. and returns lots of ARRAY0x1241234 if there is
more than one ...

its almost as if someone has infected it with a variant of sub::approx
and its making some wild guesses about what its supposed to be doing and
guessing different things in different situations .. either way its
driving me dippy.

any ideas on how to tell the thing to stop trying to second guess what I
want or guess right each time?

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!



Re: template toolkit .. one more kwestion

2001-01-29 Thread Rob Partington

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Robin Szemeti [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 this works fine if the function returns a list with more than one thing
 in it .. if there is only one thing in the array I get a 'dont know how
 to access [ 3 ].0  if for example item 3 is returned.
 
 if I access the result as just plain [% item %] it works fine if there is
 one item in the list .. and returns lots of ARRAY0x1241234 if there is
 more than one ...

Sounds like your dereferencing function may be returning a SCALAR instead
of an ARRAY when there's only one result?
-- 
rob partington % [EMAIL PROTECTED] % http://lynx.browser.org/



Re: Video Tips

2001-01-29 Thread Simon Wistow

Dave Cross wrote:
 
 Here's a top tip. Don't try to video two hours of programs on an hour and a
 half of video tape.
 
 Does anyone happen to have Friday's Angel taped - I only really need the
 second half :(

Anybody got the 1st half of the terrestrial Buffy from this week taped?
And the second half infact. 

Damn Burns Night.



Re: Video Tips

2001-01-29 Thread Dave Cross

At Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:18:29 +, Simon Wistow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dave Cross wrote:
  
  Here's a top tip. Don't try to video two hours of programs on an 
  hour and a half of video tape.
  
  Does anyone happen to have Friday's Angel taped - I only really 
  need the second half :(
 
 Anybody got the 1st half of the terrestrial Buffy from this week 
 taped?
 And the second half infact. 
 
 Damn Burns Night.

Not yet, but the videos for the second half of that series should be
landing on my doormat in two weeks time.

Does anyone else thing that this week's BBC and Sky Buffies were 
rather similar?

Dave...



Re: Video Tips

2001-01-29 Thread Robert Shiels

Staying resolutely on-topic [1], I've started watching my "League of
Gentlemen" first series DVD.

This is a very good DVD indeed, with an second audio track by the cast
talking about why they did everything.

The DVD starts with a question "Are you Local ?"

If you click "No" it switches off :)

--
Robert

[1] Not!

 Dave Cross wrote:
 
  Here's a top tip. Don't try to video two hours of programs on an hour
and a
  half of video tape.
 





Re: Video Tips

2001-01-29 Thread Struan Donald

* at 29/01 11:29 - Robert Shiels said:
 Staying resolutely on-topic [1], I've started watching my "League of
 Gentlemen" first series DVD.
 
 This is a very good DVD indeed, with an second audio track by the cast
 talking about why they did everything.
 
 The DVD starts with a question "Are you Local ?"
 
 If you click "No" it switches off :)

thereby robert demonstrates joke spoiling techinque 27 :)

struan



Re: Video Tips

2001-01-29 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, you wrote:

 The DVD starts with a question "Are you Local ?"
 
 If you click "No" it switches off :)

reminds me of some Monty Pyton PC game .. Search for the Holy Grail.

after a long intro the opening screen you get two options 'Get the Grail'
and summink else ..  Get the Grail takes you through a little sequence '
of congratulations youve found the grail .. thanks for playing' and the
programme then quits.

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!



Re: template toolkit .. one more kwestion

2001-01-29 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, you wrote:
 In message [EMAIL PROTECTED],
 Robin Szemeti [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  this works fine if the function returns a list with more than one thing
  in it .. if there is only one thing in the array I get a 'dont know how
  to access [ 3 ].0  if for example item 3 is returned.
  
  if I access the result as just plain [% item %] it works fine if there is
  one item in the list .. and returns lots of ARRAY0x1241234 if there is
  more than one ...
 
 Sounds like your dereferencing function may be returning a SCALAR instead
 of an ARRAY when there's only one result?

could be ... I had :

my($data)=$sth-fetchall_arrayref;
return @{$data};

which I thought should return a flat list of references to arrays ... ??
nope?

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!



LAMP Stuff

2001-01-29 Thread Dave Cross

O'Reilly have launched a new site discussing LAMP (Linux, Apache,
MySQL, Perl/Python/PHP) web development. Most of the current content
seems to be links to existing O'Reilly Network content (e.g. perl.com),
but it's a interesting start. And good to see the term being given
credence by someone like O'Reilly.

Dave...
[who is glad he still has the lampmagic domains!]



Re: LAMP Stuff

2001-01-29 Thread Michael Stevens

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:52:37AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote:
 O'Reilly have launched a new site discussing LAMP (Linux, Apache,
 MySQL, Perl/Python/PHP) web development. Most of the current content
 seems to be links to existing O'Reilly Network content (e.g. perl.com),
 but it's a interesting start. And good to see the term being given
 credence by someone like O'Reilly.
 Dave...
 [who is glad he still has the lampmagic domains!]

And the url is?

Michael

(I had a quick look at ora.com but I couldn't see anything obvious)



Re: LAMP Stuff

2001-01-29 Thread Dave Cross

At Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:58:44 +, Michael Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:52:37AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote:
  O'Reilly have launched a new site discussing LAMP (Linux, Apache,
  MySQL, Perl/Python/PHP) web development. Most of the current content
  seems to be links to existing O'Reilly Network content (e.g. 
  perl.com), but it's a interesting start. And good to see the term 
  being given credence by someone like O'Reilly.
  Dave...
  [who is glad he still has the lampmagic domains!]
 
 And the url is?
 
 Michael
 
 (I had a quick look at ora.com but I couldn't see anything obvious)

D'oh [fx: slaps forehead]

http://www.onlamp.com/

Dave...



fspi

2001-01-29 Thread Greg McCarroll


i got a shiny copy of Dave's book in the post on saturday, very nice
indeed

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: LAMP Stuff

2001-01-29 Thread Robert Shiels


 http://www.onlamp.com/

 Dave...


/me wonders if Dave's article on the main page is at all relevant to this
thread :-)

/Robert




Re: HTML:Parser

2001-01-29 Thread Dave Cross

At Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:07:27 -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I've just installed HTML::Parser on a machine here.  It passed all of 
 make, make test and make install fine. (output from make test pasted)

[snip]

 Then when I try to use it in the following file (which is a quick 
 paste from lwpcook, with some changes to make it work in new seperate 
 version of HTML::Parser) 

[snip]

 The output I get from this is
 
 Can't locate auto/HTML/Parser/traverse.al in @INC (@INC contains the
 followinng paths SNIP)
 
 the paths arse set up correctly and pointing at where I installed the
 module, so I'm stumped.  Does anyone have any ideas ?

Gareth,

traverse isn't an HTML::Parser method. As far as I can see, from CPAN,
it never has been. That example isn't in the current lwpcook either.

I think your problem is that your lwp is rather old and your HTML::Parser is very new. 
You're getting incompatibilities.

Dave...



Re: HTML::Parser

2001-01-29 Thread Philip Newton

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in ugly HTML:
 my $h =
$parser-parse_file("/export/home/gharper/0,10225,1_1547_2168,00.htm"); 

This smells of the "V" word :-)

   $h-traverse(\expand_urls, 1); 
[snip]
 The output I get from this is 
 Can't locate auto/HTML/Parser/traverse.al in @INC (@INC contains
 the followinng paths SNIP) 
 the paths arse set up correctly and pointing at where I installed
 the module, so I'm stumped.  Does anyone have any ideas ?

I don't see any mention of a method "traverse" in the HTML::Parser manpage
for HTML::Parser::VERSION == 3.15, nor in my version of the lwpcook page.
Maybe you got a wrong example from somewhere?

Cheers,
Philip



HTML:Parser

2001-01-29 Thread Gareth . Harper
Title: HTML:Parser





I've just installed HTML::Parser on a machine here. It passed all of make, make test and make install fine. (output from make test pasted)

bash-2.02$ make test
PERL_DL_NONLAZY=1 /usr/bin/perl -Iblib/arch -Iblib/lib -I/usr/local/lib/perl5/5.00503/sun4-solaris -I/usr/local/lib/perl5/5.00503

-e 'use Test::Harness qw(runtests $verbose); $verbose=0; runtests @ARGV;' t/*.t
t/api_version...ok
t/argspec-bad...ok
t/argspec...ok
t/cases.ok
t/comment...ok
t/crashme...ok
t/declaration...ok
t/default...ok
t/dtext.ok
t/entities..ok
t/filterok
t/handler-eof...ok
t/handler...ok
t/headparser-http...ok
t/headparserok
t/ignoreok
t/largetags.ok
t/linkextor-baseok
t/linkextor-rel.ok
t/magic.ok
t/marked-sect...ok
t/offsetok
t/options...ok
t/parsefile.ok
t/parserok
t/process...ok
t/tokeparserok
t/uentities.skipping test on this platform
t/unbroken-text.ok
t/xml-mode..ok
All tests successful, 1 test skipped.
Files=30, Tests=147, 48 wallclock secs (40.17 cusr + 5.53 csys = 45.70 CPU)


Then when I try to use it in the following file (which is a quick paste from lwpcook, with some changes to make it work in new seperate version of HTML::Parser) 

#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
use strict;
use HTML::Parser;


my %link_elements =
 (
 'a' = 'href',
 'img' = 'src',
 'form' = 'action',
 'link' = 'href',
 );
 my $BASE = http://www.sportal.co.uk/;
 my $parser = HTML::Parser-new();
 my $h = $parser-parse_file(/export/home/gharper/0,10225,1_1547_2168,00.htm);
 $h-traverse(\expand_urls, 1);


 print $h-as_HTML;


 sub expand_urls
 {
 my($e, $start) = @_;
 return 1 unless $start;
 my $attr = $link_elements{$e-tag};
 return 1 unless defined $attr;
 my $url = $e-attr($attr);
 return 1 unless defined $url;
 $e-attr($attr, url($url, $BASE)-abs-as_string);
 }


The output I get from this is


Can't locate auto/HTML/Parser/traverse.al in @INC (@INC contains the followinng paths SNIP)


the paths arse set up correctly and pointing at where I installed the module, so I'm stumped. Does anyone have any ideas ?

Gareth Harper
Engineering


[EMAIL PROTECTED]


SPORTAL LIMITED
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SW11 4JH, united kingdom
f: +44 (0) 20 7350 4701 
m: +44 (0) 7989 418742
http://www.sportal.com


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Re: fspi

2001-01-29 Thread Dave Cross

At Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:12:01 +, Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 i got a shiny copy of Dave's book in the post on saturday, very nice
 indeed

*blush*

Thanks.

Dave...
[who hasn't actually got a copy yet!]



RE: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-29 Thread Matthew Jones

Speaking from a personal standpoint, I really enjoy the
technical meetings and think more of them would be really beneficial[2].  
I think they represent a lot of what we are us to and show that we're 
all not just talk 'n booze.  Hence I'm anxious to see them succeed.

I'd like to be able to attend your technical meetings, since compared to the
majority of you lot I'm pretty green, having only been using perl for just
over eighteen months. And this:

Bath.pm roots showing.  We used to discuss a fair amount of technical
(but not necessary perl related) stuff.  From this, I quickly progressed
into the well rounded perl programmer I am today[3]

Works for me as a testimonial to *.pm tech meetings. Tech meetings good.
Learning things from sharp people good.

So how do That.pm feel about some northern tyke scuttling down to join you
for the odd beer and tech meeting on a sort of semi-regular basis?

-- 
matt



Re: Passwords

2001-01-29 Thread Michael Stevens

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 02:30:07PM -, Robert Shiels wrote:
 I just wanted to ask a brief question about passwords.
 I have access to about 10 SAP systems in my work at the moment, and all of
 them require a password, and these passwords all expire after 60 days. This
 will happen at random times depending on when I actually try to logon. So  I
 have the potential of having 10 different passwords. And I get locked out of
 the system after 3 bad password tries (as sysadmin I can unlock myself, but
 it's a pain, and also as sysadmin, I need to unlock other people all the
 time).
 My question is, Why is automatic password expiry a good idea?
 It's a pain, and encourages bad password management. I'll probably log onto
 each system every 60 days and set them all to the same one.

Not that I necessarily agree with what this says, it's definately interesting
and worth thinking about:

Security and Human Factors
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001126.html

Michael



RE: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-29 Thread Dave Cross

At Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:27:41 -, Matthew Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 So how do That.pm feel about some northern tyke scuttling down to 
 join you for the odd beer and tech meeting on a sort of semi-regular 
 basis?

We'd be very happy for you to come along whenever you wanted to.

Dave...



Re: fspi

2001-01-29 Thread James Powell

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 02:12:01PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 
 i got a shiny copy of Dave's book in the post on saturday, very nice
 indeed
 
 -- 
 Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

Where did you get it from so quickly? Direct from Manning?


jp



Re: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-29 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Matthew Jones ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 
 So how do That.pm feel about some northern tyke scuttling down to join you
 for the odd beer and tech meeting on a sort of semi-regular basis?
 

i assume odd beer is a typo and you mean't odd beers, i.e. an odd number
of beers ( i've also decided that 1 is not an odd number )

seriously, i'm sure everyone would welcome you with open arms

greg

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-29 Thread Michael Stevens

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 02:41:38PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 i assume odd beer is a typo and you mean't odd beers, i.e. an odd number
 of beers ( i've also decided that 1 is not an odd number )
 seriously, i'm sure everyone would welcome you with open arms

We are perl.

you will be assimiliated.

Michael



Re: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-29 Thread Richard Clamp

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 02:28:07PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 02:27:41PM -, Matthew Jones wrote:
 
  So how do That.pm feel about some northern tyke scuttling down to join you
  for the odd beer and tech meeting on a sort of semi-regular basis?
 
 You will, of course, be assimilated and ultimately move to That London.
 Just like that northern tyke Mr. Clamp did.

Northern, why I oughta!

I'm from Birmingham damnit[0], which though north of the M25, is nowhere near
as grim as proper up north.

[0] It's full name being 'Birmingham - damnit, now how do I get through this
sodding one way system'

-- 
Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: fspi

2001-01-29 Thread Dave Cross

At Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:46:40 +, Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 * James Powell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 02:12:01PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:
   
   i got a shiny copy of Dave's book in the post on saturday, very 
   nice indeed
  
  Where did you get it from so quickly? Direct from Manning?
 
 i'm assuming so, i never actually read the compliment slip, but
 it was sent from the US in some fancy red and white packaging
 that gave the impression of speedy delivery 

Probably worth point out that Greg didn't actually order the book. He
was sent a free copy by Manning for all the help he gave whilst the 
book was being written.

Dave...



Re: fspi

2001-01-29 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 At Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:46:40 +, Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  * James Powell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
   On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 02:12:01PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:

i got a shiny copy of Dave's book in the post on saturday, very 
nice indeed
   
   Where did you get it from so quickly? Direct from Manning?
  
  i'm assuming so, i never actually read the compliment slip, but
  it was sent from the US in some fancy red and white packaging
  that gave the impression of speedy delivery 
 
 Probably worth point out that Greg didn't actually order the book. He
 was sent a free copy by Manning for all the help he gave whilst the 
 book was being written.
 

i think i'll have to go and review it at amazon now i have a paper
copy , although the fact i might put in

*** THIS IS A GENUINE REVIEW NOT ONE INFLUENCED BY THE PUBLISHER ***

at the top and bottom, might not be in the spirit of receiving a
free book, so maybe i should avoid that

Greg
 
-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: template toolkit .. one more kwestion solved

2001-01-29 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, you wrote:

  Sounds like your dereferencing function may be returning a SCALAR instead
  of an ARRAY when there's only one result?
 
 could be ... I had :
 
 my($data)=$sth-fetchall_arrayref;
 return @{$data};
 
 which I thought should return a flat list of references to arrays ... ??
 nope?

so .. after a quick fiddle .. 

It seem T::T automagically assumes that if you pass it a reference to
something then you probably didn;t want that, you prolly wanted the thingy
itself so it dereferences it for you.. it will only do this down one
level.

so by passing it a list of references it sees a list .. does a foreach
down them and then sees what it gets (in this case an array ref ) .. it
dereferences that and bingo you can now access the row of stuff.

however when the list jsut contains 1 item, it sees a reference to an
array ( whicj is the row) and then proceeds to do a foreach over the
elements of the row ..

by simply not passing it the thing in list format  but passing the plain
reference (ie return $data instead of @{$data}) it always gets an arrayref
and works for both cases of 1 or n items in the array.

solved .. it just took me a while to twig what was going on.

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!



Another Template Toolkit Q

2001-01-29 Thread Mark . Kitching
Title: Another Template Toolkit Q






So TT nicely allows a filename, a filehandle or blank for STDOUT.


So how to I capture the output to some variable so I could, say, manipulate that output
without having to read the file I've outputted?


Is that possible?


Mark K.





Re: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-29 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 02:54:26PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:

 the minute i cross the river, i can feel grimness coming upon me

And they all talk funny.  North of the river they're all called Hamish
and Angus, and they wear flat caps and have whippets.

 Greg (who was surfing for flats in balham this weekend and spotted one on
   dave's road ;-) )

You don't want to live there then.  Slum landlords and all that.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

   Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced



Re: Another Template Toolkit Q

2001-01-29 Thread Richard Clamp

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 03:17:10PM -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 So TT nicely allows a filename, a filehandle or blank for STDOUT.
 
 So how to I capture the output to "some variable" so I could, say,
 manipulate that output
 without having to read the file I've outputted?
 
 Is that possible?

istr if you give it a scalar reference, as the 3rd parameter, then it puts
it in there.

Hang on, isn't there an actual Template Toolkit mailing list.

-- 
Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-29 Thread Rob Partington

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED],
David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 And they all talk funny.  North of the river they're all called Hamish
 and Angus, and they wear flat caps and have whippets.

'eyup!  My uncle used to race greyhounds and whippets (and pigeons!)
and I have a flat cap.  But I don't talk funny, and I'm not called Hamish.
-- 
rob partington % [EMAIL PROTECTED] % http://lynx.browser.org/



Re: Another Template Toolkit Q

2001-01-29 Thread Struan Donald

* at 29/01 15:17 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
 
 So TT nicely allows a filename, a filehandle or blank for STDOUT. 
 
 So how to I capture the output to "some variable" so I could, say,
 manipulate that output 
 without having to read the file I've outputted? 
 
 Is that possible? 

mmm, this should be a FAQ...

perldoc Template:

   By default, the processed template output is printed to
   STDOUT.  The process() method then returns 1 to indicate
   success.  A third parameter may be passed to the process()
   method to specify a different output location.  This value
   may be one of: a plain string indicating a filename which
   will be opened (relative to OUTPUT_PATH, if defined) and
   the output written to; a file GLOB opened ready for
   output; a reference to a scalar (e.g. a text string) to
   which output/error is appended; a reference to a
   subroutine which is called, passing the output as a
   parameter; or any object reference which implements a
   'print' method (e.g. IO::Handle, Apache::Request, etc.)
   which will be called, passing the generated output as a
   parameter.

If you note, the third paramater can be a ref to a scalar to which the
output is appended.

hth

struan

(sho missed this fisrt time round too :)



RE: Another Template Toolkit Q

2001-01-29 Thread Mark . Kitching
Title: RE: Another Template Toolkit Q






Hang on, isn't there an actual Template Toolkit mailing list.

-- 
Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]



There is? Well I know when I'm not wanted then :-)


Mark k.





RE: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-29 Thread Matthew Jones

 the minute i cross the river, i can feel grimness coming upon me

And they all talk funny.  North of the river they're all called Hamish
and Angus, and they wear flat caps and have whippets.

Eeeh, lad, 'appen tha's f'gottent' pigeon-fancying[1] and breakfasts
consisting entirely of clotted blood wrapped up in guts.

Mind you, as I've said elsewhere, the beer's *dead* cheap, and
properly-made. Which is why I tend to drink fizzy lager in That, because
I've yet to find a rub-a-dub that serves a decent pint of Real Ale[0]. Like
Old Eli or Enoch's Hammer from the Sair Inn[2].

-- 
matt
[0]Of course there's no ulterior motive for me wanting to come to That.pm
meetings ...
[1] Well done, Rob.
[2] http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/6006/sair.htm



Re: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-29 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 At Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:54:26 +, Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  
  the minute i cross the river, i can feel grimness coming upon me
 
 AOL/ One of the big plus points for this jobs was that it was on the
 right (i.e. south) side of the river.
 
  Greg (who was surfing for flats in balham this weekend and spotted 
  one on dave's road ;-) )
 
 Do you know what number it was?
 

it doesnt say on the main website and the links down to the
fuller detail picture

its being let my sheraton law if thats any help

just think of the sitcom possibilities if i lived above you
Dave? heh? heh? ;-) ;-)

greg

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



RE: Another Template Toolkit Q

2001-01-29 Thread Neil Ford


Hang on, isn't there an actual Template Toolkit mailing list.

--
Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]


There is? Well I know when I'm not wanted then :-)

Mark k.

Check http://www.tt2.org/info.html#lists for details.

And it's not that you're not wanted :-) it's more that you're likely 
to get more authorative answers there.

Neil.
-- 
Neil C. Ford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.binky.ourshack.org



Re: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-29 Thread Simon Wistow

Matthew Jones wrote:

 Dave is sitting in his living room, leafing through his back issues of
 "Canned Food and Preserved Rations Monthly". 

Wrong Dave. More like "Dave is lounging casually in his Chippendale,
stroking his gold plated cat and having his feet massaged by a minion.
Another lackey is reading aloud from the latest issue of 'Being rich
monthly' but Dave halts him with a flick of his bejewelled hand sends
him scurrying away, tugging his forelock as he backs out of the room,
hi-salamming as he goes. He is just musing whether or not to go riding
in his Zeppelin throwing gold coins to the supplicating paupers below
when Greg walks in ..."



RE: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-29 Thread dcross - David Cross

From: Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 29 January 2001 15:34

 just think of the sitcom possibilities if i lived above you
 Dave? heh? heh? ;-) ;-)

Bit tricky that. What with us living in a house and all that.

Dave...

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Re: template toolkit .. one more kwestion solved

2001-01-29 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 05:31:52PM +0100, Philip Newton wrote:
 Reminds me of fits I had when doing Vignette/Tcl with lists of lists that I
 passed to another template with HTTP POST. When the list of lists contained
 only one element, it didn't wrap that list in extra {} so the foreach say a
 list of lists all right -- but the "sublists" were only one element long
 (since {} are optional around lists if there are not spaces). Caused me a

Try creating a JavaScript array of length one whose first
element is initialised to 1.  Aaargh. [1]

Paul


[1]

# These numbers get turned into a JavaScript array later on that
# looks like new Array (1,1,0); Owing to JavaScript1.0 braindeadedness
# new Array (1) is interpreted as "created a one element list" not
# "create a one element list with [0]=1". However this is achievable
# if the number is given as a string like new Array("1");

@time_names = sort {$a = $b} keys %time_names;
foreach my $i_list (keys %time_cache) {
$time_cache{$i_list} =
join ',', map {$time_cache{$i_list}{$_} ? 1 : 0} @time_names;
$time_cache{$i_list} =~ s/^(.)$/"$1"/;
}




Re: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-29 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 02:28:07PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 02:27:41PM -, Matthew Jones wrote:
 
  So how do That.pm feel about some northern tyke scuttling down to join you
  for the odd beer and tech meeting on a sort of semi-regular basis?
 
 You will, of course, be assimilated and ultimately move to That London.

Or California like some London.pm'ers. Great weather, AND
you don't have to get up in at four in t'morning t'lick road
clean. (They have illegally present Mexicans for that.)

Paul



Fwd: [mengerin@deja.com: [?] Template Toolkit]

2001-01-29 Thread Dave Cross

I got the following email in response to my TT2 article. I know nothing
about EmbPerl so I can't really answer these points. Does anyone who has
used EmbPerl have any ammo that I can use in my reply?

Dave...

- Forwarded message from [snip] -

Howdy,

I'm curious why you prefer the TT to EmbPerl?  It seems that the capabilities
of TT are a strict subset of EmbPerl.  Granted the syntax is arguably slightly 
easier at first than EmbPerl, it doesn't seem worth the lesser functionality 
and forcing of data manipulation in the calling space.

We use EmbPerl extensively at DejaNews and taught the minimal amounts to
all of the HTML folks designers and programmers.  No one had any difficulty
w/ '@' or '%' so much as the concept of an array or a hash.  That is to say
that no one had syntactic difficulties, just structural.

So, it seems that if there is a movement to establish a module in the same
ranks as LWP, CGI, DBI, XML::Parser and the like that it would be better as
EmbedPerl than the Template Toolkit.

Thoughts?

Cheers,

- End forwarded message -

-- 
http://www.dave.org.uk | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]

plugData Munging with Perl
http://www.manning.com/cross//plug



Re: .emacs

2001-01-29 Thread Michael Stevens

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 07:53:00PM +, Mark Fowler wrote:
 I like my .emacs file.  It sets nice fonts and colours, and sets the
 editing mode and wrapping mode of choice ;-)
 I'm sure it can do more...
  1) Where do I find handy things to put into my .emacs file on the web?
  2) Got any nice bits of your .emacs file to share?
 Note that (shock, horror) I can't program lisp properly (duh, I program
 perl) so that I may sound stupid when it comes to these things.

I have a massive emacs setup of multi-pleasure that's been mouldering
for about two-three years.

Maybe I should resurrect it.

Michael



Re: .emacs

2001-01-29 Thread Robin Houston

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:13:11PM +, Mark Fowler wrote:
 
 Hmm. Can you do something to save directly via scp?

http://ls6-www.informatik.uni-dortmund.de/~grossjoh/emacs/tramp.html

 .robin.

-- 
A man, a plan, a cat, a ham, a yak, a yam, a hat, a canal--Panama!



Re: Fwd: [uri@sysarch.com: free copy of data munging with perl]

2001-01-29 Thread Leon Brocard

Dave Cross sent the following bits through the ether:

 I'd be failing in my duty as group leader if I didn't pass on this
 announcement from the Perl Mongers Group Leaders mailing list :)

Yes. I've actually got a copy of this fine book lying in my bedroom
right now. An actual book! Hardcopy! Not on the screen! Let's buy
Dave a drink or two ;-)

Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/

... And tomorrow will be like today, only more so



Re: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-29 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:57:00PM +, Chris Benson wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 02:48:33PM +, Richard Clamp wrote:
  
  I'm from Birmingham damnit[0], which though north of the M25, is nowhere near
  as grim as proper up north.
 
 Oi! where you calling grim

http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/maps/britain.gif

So there.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

   Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced



Re: Fwd: [mengerin@deja.com: [?] Template Toolkit]

2001-01-29 Thread Leon Brocard

Dave Cross sent the following bits through the ether:

 I got the following email in response to my TT2 article. I know nothing
 about EmbPerl so I can't really answer these points. Does anyone who has
 used EmbPerl have any ammo that I can use in my reply?

Embperl is entirely Apache and web based, which is good for some
things and bad for some things, like having the template wotsit work
orthogonally to everything else.

They're about the same speed, as they both compile the templates to
Perl, which they then evaluate. The Embperl compiler is in C, but in
my tests this doesn't save you much as mostly you only compile
templates once.

While I'm at it, I looked at the TT2 compiler last week and it
generates pretty damn good code pretty quickly indeed. Writing
compilers to Perl rocks.

Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/

... All generalizations are false, including this one



Re: Fwd: [mengerin@deja.com: [?] Template Toolkit]

2001-01-29 Thread Michael Stevens

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 09:31:30PM +, Leon Brocard wrote:
  I got the following email in response to my TT2 article. I know nothing
  about EmbPerl so I can't really answer these points. Does anyone who has
  used EmbPerl have any ammo that I can use in my reply?
 Embperl is entirely Apache and web based, which is good for some
 things and bad for some things, like having the template wotsit work
 orthogonally to everything else.

It's definately entirely web based, but I have cron jobs using embperl
to generate html email that goes to various people without ever going
near apache...

Michael



Re: .emacs

2001-01-29 Thread Richard Clamp

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:26:32PM +, Robin Houston wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 08:13:11PM +, Mark Fowler wrote:
  
  Hmm. Can you do something to save directly via scp?
 
 http://ls6-www.informatik.uni-dortmund.de/~grossjoh/emacs/tramp.html

See, that's what you get for posting before/while your modem connection
messes you about as you download mail.

D'oh

-- 
Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: Another Template Toolkit Q

2001-01-29 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 So TT nicely allows a filename, a filehandle or blank for STDOUT.

 So how to I capture the output to "some variable" so I could, say,
 manipulate that output
 without having to read the file I've outputted?


$tt-process($template,$variables,\$outvar);

$outvar will contain the output.

/J\
-- 
Jonathan Stowe   |
http://www.gellyfish.com |   I'm with Grep on this one
http://www.tackleway.co.uk   |




RE: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-29 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, dcross - David Cross wrote:

 From: Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 29 January 2001 15:34

  just think of the sitcom possibilities if i lived above you
  Dave? heh? heh? ;-) ;-)

 Bit tricky that. What with us living in a house and all that.


We have seagulls on our roof, perhaps grep meant to be building a nest on
your chimney ?

/J\
-- 
Jonathan Stowe   |
http://www.gellyfish.com |   I'm with Grep on this one
http://www.tackleway.co.uk   |




Re: .emacs

2001-01-29 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, Mark Fowler wrote:

 P.S. All other editor comments /dev/null or to sender as I think we've
 had quite enough holy wars on this list this month.


Tsk, tsk - you shouldnt have brought it up then had you :)

/J\
-- 
Jonathan Stowe   |
http://www.gellyfish.com |   I'm with Grep on this one
http://www.tackleway.co.uk   |




Re: Fwd: [mengerin@deja.com: [?] Template Toolkit]

2001-01-29 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, Leon Brocard wrote:

 Dave Cross sent the following bits through the ether:

  I got the following email in response to my TT2 article. I know nothing
  about EmbPerl so I can't really answer these points. Does anyone who has
  used EmbPerl have any ammo that I can use in my reply?

 Embperl is entirely Apache and web based, which is good for some
 things and bad for some things, like having the template wotsit work
 orthogonally to everything else.

And entirely impossible for a lot of the things that I am using TT for
like creating printed documents and e-mail messages 

/J\
-- 
Jonathan Stowe   |
http://www.gellyfish.com |   I'm with Grep on this one
http://www.tackleway.co.uk   |




Re: Fwd: [uri@sysarch.com: free copy of data munging with perl]

2001-01-29 Thread Mark Fowler

 It's starting to sound like I@m the only bugger who _hasn't_ got a copy
 of my book yet :(

Fret not, fearless nominal leader.  Mine hasn't arrived yet either.  

Later.

Mark.
 
-- 
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
   Name  = 'Mark Fowler',Title = 'Technology Developer'  ,
   Firm  = 'Profero Ltd',Web   = 'http://www.profero.com/'   ,
   Email = '[EMAIL PROTECTED]',   Phone = '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960'  )








33 mails

2001-01-29 Thread Greg McCarroll


how the f*** did you lot send 33 mails to this list between
when i left work and now?

sheesh

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-29 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Jonathan Stowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, dcross - David Cross wrote:
 
  From: Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: 29 January 2001 15:34
 
   just think of the sitcom possibilities if i lived above you
   Dave? heh? heh? ;-) ;-)
 
  Bit tricky that. What with us living in a house and all that.
 
 
 We have seagulls on our roof, perhaps grep meant to be building a nest on
 your chimney ?
 

ok scratch that, the idea for the sitcom is i'm the lodger, dave had
to rent out his flat because he needed the cash --- err no, thats
a bit too far fetched even for a sitcom

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Meeting Reminder

2001-01-29 Thread Greg McCarroll


i'd like to point out that this is an EXCEPTIONAL social meeting
of London.pm due to MJD, the real meeting of course will be on
the day after the first wednesday of the month

* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 
 There's a social meeting on Thursday 1st Feb (that's this coming
 Thursday).
 
 It will be in the Barrowboay  Banker at the southern end of London
 Bridge. There's a map on the web site.
 
 Mark-Jason Dominus will be joining us and I think that Simon Cozens
 is thinking of coming along too.
 
 Dave...
-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: 33 mails

2001-01-29 Thread Mark Fowler

grep complained:

 
 how the f*** did you lot send 33 mails to this list between when i
 left work and now?
 
 sheesh

Practice?  We learn quickly, o wise teacher.

Later.

Mark.

-- 
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
   Name  = 'Mark Fowler',Title = 'Technology Developer'  ,
   Firm  = 'Profero Ltd',Web   = 'http://www.profero.com/'   ,
   Email = '[EMAIL PROTECTED]',   Phone = '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960'  )








Re: 33 mails

2001-01-29 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Mark Fowler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 grep complained:
 
  
  how the f*** did you lot send 33 mails to this list between when i
  left work and now?
  
  sheesh
 
 Practice?  We learn quickly, o wise teacher.
 

its ok, i figured out why, some dum-shee (scottish word, ask
Dave Can, who got to see my Scotty McClue video one night) asked
a question about emacs rc files

oh, you should all no, i'm going to be working my arse of
the next few days and then finishing with a big presentation
on thursday - i then have friday off

this coupled with my relative sobrietary during january means
we are going to have to go for it big time on thursday night

if i can have 2 teams of 3 before tomorow (tuesday) night
i'll come up with a drinking game/quiz based around 
perl/london.pm/computing trivia

how about Dave Cross and MJD as team captains?

gre[gp]

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: 33 mails

2001-01-29 Thread Dave Cross

On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 12:23:43AM +, Greg McCarroll ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:

 if i can have 2 teams of 3 before tomorow (tuesday) night
 i'll come up with a drinking game/quiz based around 
 perl/london.pm/computing trivia
 
 how about Dave Cross and MJD as team captains?

I thought you were planning to save this kind of stuff for the heretics
meeting on the 8th.

Dave...

-- 
http://www.dave.org.uk | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]

plugData Munging with Perl
http://www.manning.com/cross//plug



Re: Meeting Reminder

2001-01-29 Thread Dave Cross

On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 12:09:01AM +, Greg McCarroll ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
wrote:
 * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  
  There's a social meeting on Thursday 1st Feb (that's this coming
  Thursday).
  
  It will be in the Barrowboay  Banker at the southern end of London
  Bridge. There's a map on the web site.
  
  Mark-Jason Dominus will be joining us and I think that Simon Cozens
  is thinking of coming along too.
 
 i'd like to point out that this is an EXCEPTIONAL social meeting
 of London.pm due to MJD, the real meeting of course will be on
 the day after the first wednesday of the month

Greg's obviously started drinking again a couple of days too early. He
knows full well that official london.pm social meetings are on the first
Thursday of the month. This has _always_ been the case and I have no
intention of changing it now.

If Greg wants to organise an extra meeting on the 8th for the McCarroll
heretics then that's fine by me, but he should probably be giving out
some information about the venue at some point soon if he wants anyone
to turn up.

Dave...

-- 
http://www.dave.org.uk | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED]

plugData Munging with Perl
http://www.manning.com/cross//plug



Re: Fwd: [uri@sysarch.com: free copy of data munging with perl]

2001-01-29 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 11:03:19PM +, Dave Cross wrote:

 It's starting to sound like I@m the only bugger who _hasn't_ got a copy
 of my book yet :(

I got a copy in the mail yesterday when I got home :-)

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

   Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced



Re: Fwd: [uri@sysarch.com: free copy of data munging with perl]

2001-01-29 Thread Greg McCarroll

* David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 11:03:19PM +, Dave Cross wrote:
 
  It's starting to sound like I@m the only bugger who _hasn't_ got a copy
  of my book yet :(
 
 I got a copy in the mail yesterday when I got home :-)
 

the bloke who works in the kebab shop opposite also had one yesterday ;-)
dave, do you think manning are trying to tell you something? ;-)

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Meeting Reminder

2001-01-29 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 
 Greg's obviously started drinking again a couple of days too early. He
 knows full well that official london.pm social meetings are on the first
 Thursday of the month. This has _always_ been the case and I have no
 intention of changing it now.
 

as i said earlier in the month ...

*puts hands over ears* la, la, la, i can't hear you , la la la 

 If Greg wants to organise an extra meeting on the 8th for the McCarroll
 heretics then that's fine by me, but he should probably be giving out
 some information about the venue at some point soon if he wants anyone
 to turn up.
 

The Anchor, near London Bridge, 8/1/2001, starting 6.30 ish ;-)

(ask me for directions if you dont' know it)

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: 33 mails

2001-01-29 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 12:23:43AM +, Greg McCarroll 
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 
  if i can have 2 teams of 3 before tomorow (tuesday) night
  i'll come up with a drinking game/quiz based around 
  perl/london.pm/computing trivia
  
  how about Dave Cross and MJD as team captains?
 
 I thought you were planning to save this kind of stuff for the heretics
 meeting on the 8th.
 

a heretic is not just for the 8th of a month, they are for the whole year

anyway, i've got about 10 questions written already , i'm thinking that
if a team gets all the answers wrong in a round their penalty is to
have to drink .. non alchoholic drinks for the next round!


-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net