Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Cross
At 09:32 13/03/2001, you wrote: At 09:27 13/03/01 +, you wrote: At 09:08 13/03/2001, you wrote: If all else fails I'll be raiding Matts script archive ;) Walking round PC World yesterday (nice to look at things then buy them 50 cheaper online :) ) and spotted a Perl Book written by

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Greg McCarroll
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Good advert for the book - lucky you only get to see it once you've read the book! not read, bought! theres the big catch still we've done this argument several times and at the end of the day people want to be able to just grab a piece of ``perl cgi

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Dean
On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 09:52:12AM +, Dave Cross wrote: Just been wandering around the website and (as an owner of the book) was able to access the 'private' areas. Well if you have a look at the vulnerabilitys database on securityfocus.com then you too can be an admin of the message

Re: DJ jabbers on the O'Reilly Network

2001-03-13 Thread Robert Shiels
From: "Jon Eyre" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 March 2001 10:14 On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Michael Stevens wrote: On Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 10:18:53PM +, Dave Cross wrote: You _do_ realise that I've now put the trademark notice on all of the london.pm web pages :) Anyone know if we could

RE: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Jonathan Peterson
There's a marketing battle that needs to be fought first. We need, somehow, to ensure that newbie CGI programmers read criticisms of Matt's scripts _before_ they find Matt's Script Archive. And I don't know how you're going to undo five years of misinformation and achieve that. Maybe we

Re: DJ jabbers on the O'Reilly Network

2001-03-13 Thread Greg McCarroll
* Michael Stevens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 10:37:12AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Michael Stevens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 10:18:53PM +, Dave Cross wrote: You _do_ realise that I've now put the trademark notice on all of the

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread David Cantrell
On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 09:08:52AM -, Miss Barbell wrote: Walking round PC World yesterday (nice to look at things then buy them 50 cheaper online :) ) and spotted a Perl Book written by Matt Wright, with a CD including many scripts from his site. What made even more amused was that

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Struan Donald
* at 13/03 10:43 - Jonathan Peterson said: There's a marketing battle that needs to be fought first. We need, somehow, to ensure that newbie CGI programmers read criticisms of Matt's scripts _before_ they find Matt's Script Archive. And I don't know how you're going to undo

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Struan Donald
* at 13/03 10:56 + Michael Stevens said: On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 10:58:36AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: how to solve this, will there is an easy way that would deal with the problem at source - perl certification *duck* having said in another email how there were no

Re: Freebies

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Cross
At 12:15 13/03/2001, you wrote: Dave Cross, Lord and Master of London.pm, thus wrote: Postman just bought a review copy of Lincoln Stein's "Network Programming with Perl". This is good news as it seems that Addison Wesley have now seen that giving freebie copies to Perl Monger groups is a

RE: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Jonathan Peterson
That's Selena Sol. He's almost as bad as Matt. I thought Selena was female. Oh well.

Re: Freebies

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Cross
At 11:28 13/03/2001, you wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 11:27:08AM +, Dave Cross wrote: At 12:15 13/03/2001, you wrote: By the way, Dave, did Addison Wesley contact you about this or vice versa? I'm wondering if O'Reilly and others are sending books to Perl monger groups anyway and

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Philip Newton
Jonathan Peterson wrote: Maybe we need to sponsor Matt Wright? The inverse of the Damian sponsorship, we would cover whatever revenue he gets from his scripts in return for him shutting all the sites down for a year, and redirecting everyone somewhere else. What do you reckon? Sponsor Matt

Re: Freebies

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Cross
At 12:15 13/03/2001, you wrote: On Tue 13 Mar, Dave Cross wrote: Postman just bought a review copy of Lincoln Stein's "Network Programming with Perl". This is good news as it seems that Addison Wesley have now seen that giving freebie copies to Perl Monger groups is a Good Thing. Since

Re: Freebies

2001-03-13 Thread Roger Horne
On Tue 13 Mar, Dave Cross wrote: Not clear which particular book you mean. The Cgi/Perl Cookbook by Craig Pratchett and Matthew Wright. John Wiley Son. One of the current "reviews" on Amazon.com says: This is obviously a book that a lot of time and care went into, on the part of

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Redvers Davies
No, but it's run by Matt. That's a list of CGI scripts written by loads of people - there are even some old embarrassments of mine in there :-/ You know we are all scrambling to find it now ;)

Re: Freebies

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Cross
At 13:02 13/03/2001, you wrote: On Tue 13 Mar, Dave Cross wrote: Not clear which particular book you mean. The Cgi/Perl Cookbook by Craig Pratchett and Matthew Wright. John Wiley Son. One of the current "reviews" on Amazon.com says: This is obviously a book that a lot of time and care went

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Hodgkinson
Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think this is a good idea and would be happy to get involved. What I'd like to see is a series of "drop in" replacements for Matt's scripts. There are counts 15 scripts on Matt's site. How long would it take us to rewrite them all? I've done his

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Robert Shiels
- Original Message - From: "Dave Hodgkinson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 March 2001 12:49 Subject: Re: Strange Request Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think this is a good idea and would be happy to get involved. What I'd like to see is a series of

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Hodgkinson
"Robert Shiels" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: - Original Message - From: "Dave Hodgkinson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 March 2001 12:49 Subject: Re: Strange Request Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think this is a good idea and would be happy to get

Re: Damian's Diary

2001-03-13 Thread Philip Newton
Dave Cross wrote: Damian's hectic world tour has now finished and he's had time to update his online diary. He says a lot of nice things about us here http://www.yetanother.org/damian/diary_February_2001.html#day_31. Not least of which, perhaps, is The presence of Piers Cawley, Dave

Re: Freebies

2001-03-13 Thread Greg McCarroll
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: *why* it works, they just want it to work. With the excellent documentation whether it's your stepping-stone to writing your own scripts or whether you never want to get more in-depth than just typing in the path to your Perl executable. 13

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Greg McCarroll
* Robert Shiels ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: - Original Message - From: "Dave Hodgkinson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 March 2001 12:49 Subject: Re: Strange Request Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think this is a good idea and would be happy to get

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Mark Fowler
and here we get back to the ROPE project as discussed before, where we could do a standard distribution of Apache/Mod Perl/Perl/Perl modules, with TT, XML::*, etc.,etc. already there Might not be a bad idea doing each of these in each of the technologies anyhow. It might prove a good way of

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Cross
At 13:05 13/03/2001, you wrote: "Robert Shiels" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: - Original Message - From: "Dave Hodgkinson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 March 2001 12:49 Subject: Re: Strange Request Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think this

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Cross
At 15:10 13/03/2001, you wrote: * Robert Shiels ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: - Original Message - From: "Dave Hodgkinson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 March 2001 12:49 Subject: Re: Strange Request Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think this

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Cross
At 14:33 13/03/2001, you wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 02:34:50PM +, Dave Cross wrote: I haven't looked at Matts scripts, but I get the feeling that they are aimed at beginners who have a fairly standard perl/apache installation[1]. I'm sure your solution will be much better, but I

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Hodgkinson
Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'd argue that you're _massively_ overestimating our audience there. Most the Matt's users are people who have accounts with web hosting companies who only allow FTP access. mod_perl usually _isn't_ installed and installing CPAN modules is frowned on

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Cross
At 13:50 13/03/2001, you wrote: Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'd argue that you're _massively_ overestimating our audience there. Most the Matt's users are people who have accounts with web hosting companies who only allow FTP access. mod_perl usually _isn't_ installed and

RE: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Matthew Jones
do you exclude this script from the archive on the basis that it uses TT? this question defines the archive of scripts a little. is the collection of scripts specifically aimed at the lowest commond denominator and tackling the MW problem directly, or is that just its core mission, and

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Robert Shiels
From: "Dave Cross" [EMAIL PROTECTED] You need to define a standard and stick to it. I suggest we write to Perl 5.004_04 as it was a) pretty stable and b) the first to include CGI.pm. Agreed. I just installed one of his scripts on my laptop, Win98, Apache 1.3.9, ActiveState's Perl5.6. There

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Hodgkinson
How about a hackfest one afternoon? A dozen people in a room with machines/laptops, pair programming... -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Interim CTO, web server farms,

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Greg McCarroll
* Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: How about a hackfest one afternoon? A dozen people in a room with machines/laptops, pair programming... have you ever tried herding cats? -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Hodgkinson
Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK, here's a list of Matt's scripts. If you'd like to have a go at rewriting one or two under the rules we've discussed (no external modules, -T, use strict, -w, etc), put you name next to it on this list. Random Image Displayer daveh Random Link

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Aaron Trevena
### warning - creature feep ### On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Aaron Trevena wrote: this question defines the archive of scripts a little. is the collection of scripts specifically aimed at the lowest commond denominator and tackling the MW problem directly, or is that just its core mission,

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Leo Lapworth
Ok, this is obviously a good idea, some comment / ideas: 1) Create nms server (Not Matt Scripts). - setup mailing list(s). - I'm happy to host in a couple of weeks 2) Review and work out a 'core' module which can be part of the distrobution and impliment CGI.pm equiv stuff

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-13 Thread Mark Fowler
Textclock Mark Countdown Mark Later. Mark. -- print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} ( Name = 'Mark Fowler',Title = 'Technology Developer' , Firm = 'Profero Ltd',Web = 'http://www.profero.com/'

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Cross
At 14:23 13/03/2001, you wrote: Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK, here's a list of Matt's scripts. If you'd like to have a go at rewriting one or two under the rules we've discussed (no external modules, -T, use strict, -w, etc), put you name next to it on this list. Random

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Cross
At 15:18 13/03/2001, you wrote: OK, here's a list of Matt's scripts. If you'd like to have a go at rewriting one or two under the rules we've discussed (no external modules, -T, use strict, -w, etc), put you name next to it on this list. Guestbook davorg WWWboard davorg --

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-13 Thread Mark Fowler
Dave wrote: Oops. I just did the Random Text one. Should have put my name down really I suppose. Here it is if you're interested. And what's wrong with the following line? ;-) #!/usr/local/bin/perl -w -- print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} ( Name =

RE: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-13 Thread Jonathan Peterson
OK, here's a list of Matt's scripts. If you'd like to have a go at rewriting one or two under the rules we've discussed (no external modules, -T, use strict, -w, etc), put you name next to it on this list. To which we should add that in default configuration the new script has the same

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Cross
At 15:44 13/03/2001, you wrote: Dave wrote: Oops. I just did the Random Text one. Should have put my name down really I suppose. Here it is if you're interested. And what's wrong with the following line? ;-) #!/usr/local/bin/perl -w D'Oh. It's a fair cop :-) In my defense, there isn't

RE: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Cross
At 15:47 13/03/2001, you wrote: OK, here's a list of Matt's scripts. If you'd like to have a go at rewriting one or two under the rules we've discussed (no external modules, -T, use strict, -w, etc), put you name next to it on this list. To which we should add that in default

MSA rewrite project

2001-03-13 Thread Jonathan Peterson
Dave Cross wrote: I've just seen a downside to the "no non-standard modules" rule, which is that we'll have to send all mail by piping to sendmail. And that really hits your cross-platform compatibility. Well, it depends on how much pain you want to inflict on yourself. Which is a

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread David Cantrell
On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:00:41PM +, Dave Cross wrote: I've just seen a downside to the "no non-standard modules" rule, which is that we'll have to send all mail by piping to sendmail. And that really hits your cross-platform compatibility. Write some stuff which will scan the local

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick
On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Michael Stevens wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:47:48PM +, David Cantrell wrote: Write some stuff which will scan the local network for open relays and then just talk SMTP to them. Someone stupid enough to not be able to install modules is stupid enough to have

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-13 Thread Dave Hodgkinson
Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 14:23 13/03/2001, you wrote: Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK, here's a list of Matt's scripts. If you'd like to have a go at rewriting one or two under the rules we've

RE: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-13 Thread Jonathan Peterson
IIRC the problem with some of them is that they use config data supplied in form variables... do we really want to maintain this? Yes, we do. It's a useful way of supplying configuration information, because editing form fields in HTML has a lower fear threshold than editing perl source

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread David Cantrell
On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:19:46PM +, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, David Cantrell wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:09:42PM +, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Dave Cross wrote: I've just seen a downside to the "no non-standard modules" rule,

Re: MSA rewrite project

2001-03-13 Thread Philip Newton
Jonathan Peterson wrote: 2. including the required modules as simple .pm files to be uploaded to the same directory as the script file. (i.e. no proper 'perl Makefile.PL;make;make test;make install). Assuming that 2 actually works, which is should in many but not all cases. Generally,

Re: MSA rewrite project

2001-03-13 Thread Roger Burton West
On or about Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 05:34:03PM +0100, Philip Newton typed: Generally, @INC contains '.', so it should work (though remember that Net::SMTP has to go into ./Net/SMTP.pm and not ./SMTP.pm or ./Net::SMTP.pm). Otherwise, use lib '.' should be your friend. I believe IIS does horribly

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick
On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, David Cantrell wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:19:46PM +, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, David Cantrell wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:09:42PM +, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Dave Cross wrote: I've just seen a

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-13 Thread Philip Newton
Dave Cross wrote: Oops. I just did the Random Text one. Two comments: - what's with the "\%\%" in the separator? '%' isn't special in double-quoted strings, last time I checked. This looks like Mattcode which backwhacks just about anything ("$hh\:$mm\:$ss" comes to mind, for example). -

RE: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-13 Thread Jonathan Peterson
Yes, but *is a security hole, and not a small one*, usually. Yes, if you put the wrong things in there, like locations of files. I guess maybe Matt does this. On the other hand, other things can go in harmlessly, and should, such as the response email address for formmail. As for the security

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-13 Thread Robert Shiels
From: "Dave Cross" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 March 2001 15:47 Subject: Re: Matt's Scripts At 14:23 13/03/2001, you wrote: Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oops. I just did the Random Text one. Should have put my name down really I suppose. Here it is if you're

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Philip Newton
Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: Why is this a problem? /usr/lib/sendmail is the published interface. (As others have already written, no /usr/lib/sendmail [or /usr/lib, for that matter] on Win2K or NT web servers.) /usr/lib/sendmail -t -oem is your friend (and remember to check $?) Hm,

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-13 Thread Matthew Robinson
At 16:53 13/03/01 +, you wrote: At 16:39 13/03/2001, you wrote: Dave Cross wrote: Oops. I just did the Random Text one. And, of course, there should be a comment at the top above #!/usr/local/bin/perl to the effect that "you should edit this to point to where Perl [version 5.00x or above]

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread David Cantrell
Weee! Cascade! On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:38:52PM +, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, David Cantrell wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:19:46PM +, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, David Cantrell wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:09:42PM +,

RE: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-13 Thread Matthew Robinson
At 16:55 13/03/01 -, you wrote: Could we write some sort of internal installer process so the instruction to the user would be type 'perl rand_text2.pl configure' and the script then rewrites itself. Updating #! lines etc, possibly even asking No, most people using these scripts don't

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick
On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, David Cantrell wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:38:52PM +, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, David Cantrell wrote: I neither know nor care. I was taking issue with your claim that relying on /usr/lib/sendmail is a good idea. This arose because

Re: Damian's Diary

2001-03-13 Thread David H. Adler
On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:12:18PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Philip Newton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Not some faceless American corporation, but London.pmers (with values of "London" including Belfast and wherever Piers lives). London.pm is not just a regional user group, a

RE: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-13 Thread Chris Devers
At 05:03 PM 13.3.2001 +, you wrote: No, most people using these scripts don't have command line access to the servers that they need to install the scripts on. We'd have to do something like: go to http://www.yoursite.com/cgi-bin/randtext2.pl?mode=configure and then have configure itself

Re: Damian's Diary

2001-03-13 Thread Piers Cawley
Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dave Cross wrote: Damian's hectic world tour has now finished and he's had time to update his online diary. He says a lot of nice things about us here http://www.yetanother.org/damian/diary_February_2001.html#day_31. Not least of which,

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Redvers Davies
I've just seen a downside to the "no non-standard modules" rule, which is that we'll have to send all mail by piping to sendmail. And that really hits your cross-platform compatibility. Is IO::Socket cross platform?

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-13 Thread Redvers Davies
*need* to configure #!. #!/bin/sh *ducks*

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Philip Newton
Redvers Davies wrote: Is IO::Socket cross platform? I believe so. At least, if the platform supports sockets. Cheers, Philip -- Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED] All opinions are my own, not my employer's. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread David H. Adler
On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 02:45:30PM +, Dave Cross wrote: We simply can't compete with Matt on backwards compatibility as his scripts all run on 4.036! If you call that "running"... :-/ dha -- David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ "I was under medication when I