RE: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Mark Fowler
Finding out where perl is parody Stop, stop, this script archive is not ready yet! Where are the Hello world examples? Where are the detailed instructions? And why are you actually working on these scripts yet! /parody You're all getting ahead of yourselves. We need to write a set of

RE: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Dave Cross
At Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:19:42 + (GMT), Mark Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Finding out where perl is parody Stop, stop, this script archive is not ready yet! Where are the Hello world examples? Where are the detailed instructions? And why are you actually working on these scripts

RE: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Lucy McWilliam
On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Mark Fowler wrote: Finding out where perl is parody Stop, stop, this script archive is not ready yet! Where are the Hello world examples? Where are the detailed instructions? And why are you actually working on these scripts yet! /parody *giggle* L. delete

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Piers Cawley
Mark Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Finding out where perl is parody Stop, stop, this script archive is not ready yet! Where are the Hello world examples? Where are the detailed instructions? And why are you actually working on these scripts yet! /parody You're all getting

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Matthew Robinson
At 10:54 14/03/01 +, you wrote: Mark Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Finding out where perl is Ooh, 'configure.cgi'. If only we could assume that they had a working perl on the box that they were installing from then we could write a cunning installer script which uploaded

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Mark Fowler
(What do you mean with "not-inplace cgi"?) Some servers (like my own) are configured to allow you to run perl scripts anywhere. Some servers (especially in the paranoid ISP land) are configured to have a /cgi-bin/ where you have to put files in that will be 'executed'. Typically you cannot

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Dave Cross
At Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:28:19 + (GMT), Mark Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (What do you mean with "not-inplace cgi"?) Some servers (like my own) are configured to allow you to run perl scripts anywhere. We _like_ servers configured like this. Especially if they've got some kind of

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Robin Szemeti
On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, you wrote: (What do you mean with "not-inplace cgi"?) Some servers (like my own) are configured to allow you to run perl scripts anywhere. Some servers (especially in the paranoid ISP land) are configured to have a /cgi-bin/ where you have to put files in that will

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread David Cantrell
On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 11:50:04AM +, Jon Eyre wrote: In my experience, virtually *all* isps/hosting providers use the 'separate cgi-bin directory' configuration. either for the security reasons outlined by evil dave ... Eh-hem. Evil Dave's server does *not* use seperate cgi-bin

Re: Mailing list details

2001-03-14 Thread Dave Cross
At Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:52:33 -, "Robert Shiels" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was looking for the mailing list subscription details on our london.pm.org website, and thought they were a bit hidden down on the "what we've done" page. I think they should probably be more prominent, probably

Re: Mailing list details

2001-03-14 Thread Elaine -HFB- Ashton
Dave Cross [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: * *Exclusivity! Take a good look round next time you're at a meeting and *tell me how exclusive you think we are :) * *But, yes, I have _lots_ of ideas for a revamp of the web site. I might *even have time to do it some time this year. There is also a

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread David Cantrell
On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 12:46:45PM +, Jon Eyre wrote: oops... Heh. Just remember, Evil Dave is the paranoid nutcase, Dave Cross is the one with the gold-plated cat. At Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:05:05 +, David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Evil Dave's server does *not* use

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Jon Eyre
My several users use scp. is there an idiot-proof graphical front-end for scp? windows clients? my several users require them, or they'll just continue using ftp, because it's *easier*... People are lazy, and security measures which are a pain in the arse will fail to work because the

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Dave Cross
At Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:34:32 + (GMT), Jon Eyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My several users use scp. is there an idiot-proof graphical front-end for scp? windows clients? my several users require them, or they'll just continue using ftp, because it's *easier*... They won't if you

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Roger Burton West
On or about Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 02:34:32PM +, Jon Eyre typed: is there an idiot-proof graphical front-end for scp? windows clients? PuTTY. my several users require them, or they'll just continue using ftp, because it's *easier*... People are lazy, and security measures which are a pain

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Mark Fowler
is there an idiot-proof graphical front-end for scp? windows? On Windows I use pscp which comes from the same people as putty. It works well, but it doesn't have a pretty graphical front-end. Yes there is. http://www.i-tree.org/ixplorer.htm. I suggest you peeps read

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Greg McCarroll
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: At Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:34:32 + (GMT), Jon Eyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My several users use scp. is there an idiot-proof graphical front-end for scp? windows clients? my several users require them, or they'll just continue using ftp,

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Dominic Mitchell
On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 02:55:28PM +, Michael Stevens wrote: On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 02:34:32PM +, Jon Eyre wrote: My several users use scp. is there an idiot-proof graphical front-end for scp? windows clients? my several users require them, or they'll just continue using ftp,

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Mark Fowler
On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: At Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:34:32 + (GMT), Jon Eyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My several users use scp. is there an idiot-proof graphical front-end for scp? windows clients? my several users

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Roger Burton West
On or about Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 04:00:22PM +, Greg McCarroll typed: * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: They won't if you stop running the ftp daemon on the server :) Rule one of security: Ensure availability for authorised users Rule zero of security: A system with no

Re: Matt's Scripts (SCP)

2001-03-14 Thread Leo Lapworth
On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 02:57:41PM +, Roger Burton West wrote: On or about Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 02:34:32PM +, Jon Eyre typed: is there an idiot-proof graphical front-end for scp? windows clients? PuTTY. SCP for Windoz = http://winscp.vse.cz/eng/ SCP for Linux = well, command

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick
On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Dominic Mitchell wrote: On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 02:55:28PM +, Michael Stevens wrote: I've been thinking that, while not ideal, webDAV is probably the best option here. I'm told it's a) secure-ish, and b) integrates nicely with Dreamweaver and whatever microsoft's

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Dominic Mitchell
On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 02:57:41PM +, Roger Burton West wrote: On or about Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 02:34:32PM +, Jon Eyre typed: is there an idiot-proof graphical front-end for scp? windows clients? PuTTY. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ In case anybody hasn't

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Dominic Mitchell
On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 03:08:03PM +, Struan Donald wrote: and people are worrying about plain scp confusing people? ssh tunneling is one of those things that appears close enough to magic that people assume it is. damn useful magic though. plus it always seems such a pain on windows

Re: Matt's Scripts (SCP)

2001-03-14 Thread Chris Devers
At 03:00 PM 14.3.2001 +, Leo Lapworth wrote: If anyone hears of a good gui SCP client for non-OSX mac's I'd really like to know (I've got users on my machine that need it!). Can Fetch do it? At a glance, I don't see anything about SCP there, but then I've only done a cursory check; it may

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread David Cantrell
On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 03:01:17PM +, Dominic Mitchell wrote: WebDAV is ok, but you'd need to run it over HTTPS to be secure. WebDAV is not OK, cos it means installing yet more stuff on the server which is simply not needed. If a user can't use scp, then I don't want that user. I mean,

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Dominic Mitchell
On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 03:13:46PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote: There is a GUI front-end for pscp, available from http://www.i-tree.org/, apparently, although I haven't tried it. This is kind of flakey, and has trouble with stuff like files owned by a user or group with more than 8

Re: Matt's Scripts (SCP)

2001-03-14 Thread Greg McCarroll
* Neil Ford ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 02:57:41PM +, Roger Burton West wrote: On or about Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 02:34:32PM +, Jon Eyre typed: is there an idiot-proof graphical front-end for scp? windows clients? PuTTY. SCP for Windoz =

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread David Cantrell
* at 14/03 14:59 + Mark Fowler said: Do what we do. Keep everything running, but shove a whopping great ipchains (or firewall of choice) in the way. If you want to access it, ssh tunnel it first. Would not ipsec be a better solution? It's transparent to the users, and more reliable

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick
On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Dave Cross wrote: At Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:10:02 +, David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 03:01:17PM +, Dominic Mitchell wrote: WebDAV is ok, but you'd need to run it over HTTPS to be secure. WebDAV is not OK, cos it means installing

RE: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Jonathan Peterson
which is simply not needed. If a user can't use scp, then I don't want that user. I mean, it's not hard FFS. Scp is not hard. Users should be able to use scp. However, the real point is that scp sucks. scp is to a sensible way of transfering files what command.com is to a good shell. scp

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Mark Fowler
Yes there is. http://www.i-tree.org/ixplorer.htm. I've since installed WinSCP, from the list of alternatives on OpenSSH This is also based on PuTTY and isn't so, well, dodgy as iXplorer. Forget I ever mentioned it. Seems to work well for me. The interface is clunky (i.e. you have to press

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Jon Eyre
On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, David Cantrell wrote: WebDAV is not OK, cos it means installing yet more stuff on the server which is simply not needed. Using WebDAV on a internal staging server and then updating the live server with something rsync-ish using scp might be a good usability/security

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Greg McCarroll
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: At Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:10:02 +, David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 03:01:17PM +, Dominic Mitchell wrote: WebDAV is ok, but you'd need to run it over HTTPS to be secure. WebDAV is not OK, cos it means

Scalar Context vs List Context

2001-03-14 Thread Dave Cross
... and how much trouble you can get in for not knowing the difference: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/03/13/208259 Dave...

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Struan Donald
* at 14/03 15:22 + Michael Stevens said: On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 04:10:02PM +, David Cantrell wrote: WebDAV is not OK, cos it means installing yet more stuff on the server which is simply not needed. If a user can't use scp, then I don't want that user. I mean, it's not hard FFS.

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Dominic Mitchell
On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 03:22:59PM +, Michael Stevens wrote: On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 04:10:02PM +, David Cantrell wrote: WebDAV is not OK, cos it means installing yet more stuff on the server which is simply not needed. If a user can't use scp, then I don't want that user. I

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Lucy McWilliam
On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Dominic Mitchell wrote: "In a recent survey, 9 out of 10 MS Windows users were found to have difficulties maximising and moving their windows. Macintosh users were not admitted to the tests because they had difficulties with the door handle at the lab where the

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread David Cantrell
On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 03:50:14PM +, Struan Donald wrote: * at 14/03 15:22 + Michael Stevens said: On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 04:10:02PM +, David Cantrell wrote: WebDAV is not OK, cos it means installing yet more stuff on the server which is simply not needed. If a user can't

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Mike Jarvis
Wednesday, March 14, 2001, 11:34:16 AM, grep wrote: GM * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: An admirable point of view in my opinion. Why would anyone possibly want to run an ISP and have to deal with all the clueless people? GM Mike J, you used to work for AOL, you should be more than

London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-03-12

2001-03-14 Thread Leon Brocard
This is the eighth of hopefully many weekly summaries of the London Perl Mongers mailing list. For the somewhat hectic week (we hit more than a hundred messages a day again) starting 2001-03-12: Don't forget the London.pm website for meetings etc. There isn't a technical meeting on Thursday due

Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-03-12

2001-03-14 Thread Simon Cozens
On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 06:02:04PM +, Leon Brocard wrote: a picture of him drinking a beer from the London.pm website. Misparse! Misparse! Misparse! -- We use Linux for all our mission-critical applications. Having the source code means that we are not held hostage by anyone's support

Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-03-12

2001-03-14 Thread Mark Fowler
Leo Lapworth was trying to debug something with Devel::DProf and couldn't understand why BEGIN was called more than once. Robert Price and Mark Fowler pointed out that 'use Module LIST' is exactly equivalent to 'BEGIN { require Module; import Module LIST; }', so the module was being use-d in

Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-03-12

2001-03-14 Thread Mark Fowler
Content-type: matter-transport/beer-stream That's not right. MIMEs do type/format (e.g. image/gif.) So it'd more likely be: Content-type: beer/guinness Later. Mark. -- print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} ( Name = 'Mark Fowler',Title =

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Robin Szemeti
On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, you wrote: And they just give 'em out. No checks, no confirming with the customers, nothing. There's little hope of securing stuff if people can be socially engineered so easily. That's a matter of setting policy. If there's no policy in place to prevent that,

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Robin Szemeti
On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, you wrote: enough people find moving/copying files on windows complex... when you start introducing a second computer... hmmm I wouldn't place such creatures as far up the food chain as 'people' .. but I know what you mean. -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Robin Szemeti
On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, you wrote: Yes there is. http://www.i-tree.org/ixplorer.htm. I've since installed WinSCP, from the list of alternatives on OpenSSH This is also based on PuTTY and isn't so, well, dodgy as iXplorer. Forget I ever mentioned it. Terraterm and TTSSH are what I have on

RE: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Robin Szemeti
On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, you wrote: Scp is not hard. Users should be able to use scp. However, the real point is that scp sucks. scp is to a sensible way of transfering files what command.com is to a good shell. scp is stateless. scp makes you enter your password, again, all the time. err

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Robin Szemeti
On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, you wrote: On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 04:10:02PM +, David Cantrell wrote: WebDAV is not OK, cos it means installing yet more stuff on the server which is simply not needed. If a user can't use scp, then I don't want that user. I mean, it's not hard FFS.

Re[2]: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Mike Jarvis
Wednesday, March 14, 2001, 1:55:03 PM, Robin wrote: RS there is a rather good ISP on Hawaii that plainly states 'the service is RS not suitable for clueless users' .. ring em up and ask too many docile RS questions and they pull your account .. My gfriend in pharmacy school plans on having a

Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-03-12

2001-03-14 Thread David Cantrell
On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 06:19:54PM +, Michael Stevens wrote: Content-type: matter-transport/beer-stream Isn't that what happens in the bogs of Penderels Oak? -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ This is a signature. There are many like it but

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread David Cantrell
On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 06:28:03PM +, Robin Szemeti wrote: On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, you wrote: That's a matter of setting policy. If there's no policy in place to prevent that, then you can expect people to do it. If you have a security policy which states that you will fire people for

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread David Cantrell
On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 06:44:55PM +, Robin Szemeti wrote: I dont have a problem with scp .. but I can see it would annoy the drag and drop brigade ... it works for me and I script those batch transfers and site updates anyway .. I keep meaning to look at rsync over an ssh tunnel but

Re: Re[2]: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Greg McCarroll
* Mike Jarvis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: And don't even get her started on child proof caps. yeah, tell me about it - those things are impossible to get open! -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-03-12

2001-03-14 Thread Greg McCarroll
* David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 06:19:54PM +, Michael Stevens wrote: Content-type: matter-transport/beer-stream Isn't that what happens in the bogs of Penderels Oak? Is it just me who has noticed the similarities between the bogs of Penderels Oak

Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-03-12

2001-03-14 Thread Roger Burton West
On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 09:39:12PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: * David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 06:19:54PM +, Michael Stevens wrote: Content-type: matter-transport/beer-stream Isn't that what happens in the bogs of Penderels Oak? Is it just me who has

Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-03-12

2001-03-14 Thread Dominic Mitchell
On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 06:19:54PM +, Michael Stevens wrote: On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 06:18:09PM +, Simon Cozens wrote: On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 06:02:04PM +, Leon Brocard wrote: a picture of him drinking a beer from the London.pm website. Misparse! Misparse! Misparse!

Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Philip Newton
Robin Szemeti wrote: of course if you _did_ want to discover a users password its not that hard .. there are ways ... I believe we have some world renowned experts on the topic at hand ... now where is 'merlin' when you need him :) ITYM 'merlyn' (or 'q[merlyn]'). HTH. HAND. Cheers,