Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

2001-03-30 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Thu, Mar 29, 2001 at 12:56:37PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
 Try doing Java in Lynx. Or Mosaic. Is there even a plugin for Netscape 
 3.0?

Lynx  Mosaic practically don't exist, demographically speaking.

 I'd say that's marketing and not something built-in. You want client-side
 Perl, you have ActiveState's PerlScript. What, nobody has a client for it?
 Well, lack of marketing.

Or lack of out-of-the-box installation.

 I think there was even a Tcl plugin for Netscape that nobody used. Probably
 not because of merit or lack thereof, but just because it wasn't hyped
 enough, and/or didn't ship as standard with a major browser.

Because Tcl is shit, shurely.

In any case, the point is there is lots of stuff Java can do Perl
can't, for practical, ease of use -centric values of "can't".

Paul



Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

2001-03-30 Thread Simon Wistow

Robin Szemeti wrote:
 
 IMHO to be of any use certification needs to be HUGE .. eg we need
 O'Reilly AND Manning behind it or it simply won't fly. We could write a
 very comprehensive set of tests and assesment levels, do all that. 

The theory driving test in this country was doen by getting driving
instructors/examiners to send in questiosn and then they assesed them
and stuck them in the question pool. Perhaps something like that might
be in order - get peeps to send in questions and then get 'editors' to
grade them from 0 (silly/rejected) to 5 (damnably hard Deep Perl
Wizadry).



Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

2001-03-30 Thread Philip Newton

Robin Szemeti wrote:
 On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, you wrote:

Hey, check your attributions -- "you" is not very useful when you're sending
stuff to a mailing list :)

  or nslookup will have to be smart enough[1] to translate
  "randomkanji" to "bq--buffy" before asking the resolver
  library.
 
 err [1] unlikely to happen because its deprecated as of 
 BIND-tools version 9.1

nslookup deprecated? Rats.

 you are apparently supposed to use dig or host .. my feeling is that
 nslookup is too easy to use and useful so they decided to 
 deprecate it to make it harder for non BIND gurus to be able to
 tell wahts going on ...

Yes, it's useful. I like nslookup. (Plus I feel that dig is pretty verbose,
but maybe there's a flag to control that that I've been too lazy to look
for.)

Cheers,
Philip
-- 
Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.



Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

2001-03-30 Thread Redvers Davies

 nslookup deprecated? Rats.

Good riddence.

 Yes, it's useful. I like nslookup. (Plus I feel that dig is pretty verbose,
 but maybe there's a flag to control that that I've been too lazy to look
 for.)

I guess it depends on application.  If you need to know the nuts and bolts
of a query, use dig.  If you only need a quick resolution use host.

The problem (for me anyways) was that what you asked for from nslookup need
not be what it returned.  You would ask it to query one nameserver and it would
for no apparent reason ignore your request and use nameservers in your 
resolve file.



Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

2001-03-30 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Mar 30, 2001 at 01:03:14AM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 On Thu, Mar 29, 2001 at 12:56:37PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
  Try doing Java in Lynx. Or Mosaic. Is there even a plugin for Netscape 
  3.0?
 
 Lynx  Mosaic practically don't exist, demographically speaking.

But things like Avantgo - which are getting more and more users all the
time - have pretty much the same capabilities as a text-only browser.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

This is a signature.  There are many like it but this one is mine.

** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **



Re: Social Meeting (fwd)

2001-03-30 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Mar 30, 2001 at 12:28:03AM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:

 Incidentally, I'm setting up a real ale review page. Send real ale reviews
 to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Spring Cascade today at the Orange Brewery brewpub
 in Pimlico. Not a bad beer.)

Have you tried the Jerusalem Tavern on Britton St, Clerkenwell?  If not,
hie thee hence at the first opportunity.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

This is a signature.  There are many like it but this one is mine.

** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **



Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

2001-03-30 Thread Steve Keay

  Yes, it's useful. I like nslookup. (Plus I feel that dig is pretty verbose,
  but maybe there's a flag to control that that I've been too lazy to look
  for.)
 
 I guess it depends on application.  If you need to know the nuts and bolts
 of a query, use dig.  If you only need a quick resolution use host.
 
 The problem (for me anyways) was that what you asked for from nslookup need
 not be what it returned.  You would ask it to query one nameserver and it would
 for no apparent reason ignore your request and use nameservers in your 
 resolve file.

nslookup does a rather dumb thing:  it tries to lookup the reverse DNS
for the nameserver it's about to use.  Apart from being a waste of
time, failure to find the name means it will refuse to query that
nameserver.

nslookup is a throwback to 1970's UNIX bollocks, as is the whole of
the BIND distribution.  If you have to use anything from BIND, host
and dig are at least somewhat consistent



Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

2001-03-30 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Steve Keay wrote:
 nslookup does a rather dumb thing:  it tries to lookup the reverse DNS
 for the nameserver it's about to use.  Apart from being a waste of
 time, failure to find the name means it will refuse to query that
 nameserver.

Why doesn't your nameserver *have* reverse DNS.

 nslookup is a throwback to 1970's UNIX bollocks, as is the whole of
 the BIND distribution.  If you have to use anything from BIND, host
 and dig are at least somewhat consistent

host(1)'s error messages are often misleading - it can give the message
"try again" to nxdomain responses, for example...

MBM

-- 
Matthew Byng-Maddick   Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  +44 20  8980 5714  (Home)
http://colondot.net/   Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] +44 7956 613942  (Mobile)
There are worse things in life than death.  Have you ever spent an evening
with an insurance salesman? -- Woody Allen




Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

2001-03-30 Thread Marty Pauley

On Thu Mar 29 15:37:29 2001, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  * - BTW, does that mean that all calls within NI are now charged at local
  rate?  Can belfast.pm enlighten me on this?
 
 Do you really think we'd get that lucky? No we get hit with the charge for a
 national call even though it's all in the one area code. They just divide it
 with codes for each area, so Belfast in 02890 whilst Lisburn is 02892.

Calling from Belfast to Lisburn is charged as a local call, AFAIK.

Before the number change Belfast was 01232 and Ards/Bangor was 01247,
but calling between them was considered local.  Now they are 02890 and
02891, and still local.

 So like London we get hit with a 2nd or 3rd change in the last 10 years
 and get no real benefit from it.

It means that we don't have to dial the STD code when calling within NI,
saving three keystrokes: NI is well known for golf, after all.

-- 
Marty

 PGP signature


Re: CPAN Logo

2001-03-30 Thread Nathan Torkington

Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote:
 Also, since the font comment made someone other than myself bristle
 a bit I would like to point out that ORA is not CPAN in any way,
 shape or form save the exception of the /doc directory tchrist has on
 perl.com.

And I'd like to say that I hope O'Reilly has done nothing to promote
the confusion.  We make no claims that CPAN is anything to do with us.
If you find something we've said or done that might cause that confusion,
please tell us and we'll fix it.

Saying the CPAN multiplexor here doesn't count, because Tom did that. :-)
(and I'm not sure anyone much uses it now, given that the quality of
service in CPAN mirrors is a billion times better this year than three
years ago).

Nat



Re: from ntk

2001-03-30 Thread Aaron Trevena

On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, James Powell wrote:

 RANDAL SCHWARTZ slams London.pm's "Perl is my bitch"
 T-Shirt - odd, considering:
 http://www.stonehenge.com/perl/amihooternot/ ... 

thats a bit slow for ntk or is squackers lagging behind (void) where all
the action happened yonks ago.

A.

-- 
A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A
"As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a 
complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal 
Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)






Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

2001-03-30 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Simon Cozens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 On Thu, Mar 29, 2001 at 10:33:59AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
  * Robert Shiels ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
   Have you thought about charging structures, SAP charge about 300gbp to take
   a certification exam, and they offer courses that are specifically designed
  
  i had thought about a 20 quid fee to be sent to YAS
 
 I think (although I'm not sure) Greg sees the plan working the same way as
 I do: we (the various trainers involved) provide training courses at our
 usual rates which *prepare* the student to take an exam for a nominal fee
 to gain accreditation. (ie, training courses don't include or substitute
 for the exam.)

yip and you build in, a little 10 or 20 quid donation to YAS for
everyone done, however this would probably be voluntary or some
such - i dont really know. but if you are doing a training course
that cost 500+ to attend, 10 or 20 seems reasonable.

but as i said , i really dont know yet.

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: from ntk

2001-03-30 Thread Leon Brocard

Aaron Trevena sent the following bits through the ether:

 thats a bit slow for ntk

Indeed. Thankfully I've removed all pimb talk from my mail
archives. Ten months is pretty slow for meme transfer. I declare NTK
too slow and hence dead. What's next? ;-)

Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/

... Sex, Bugs, Rock'n'Roll



Re: from ntk

2001-03-30 Thread Aaron Trevena

On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Leon Brocard wrote:

 Aaron Trevena sent the following bits through the ether:
 
  thats a bit slow for ntk
 
 Indeed. Thankfully I've removed all pimb talk from my mail
 archives. Ten months is pretty slow for meme transfer. I declare NTK
 too slow and hence dead. What's next? ;-)


I think the jamie olover link has saved them - it is mighty fine.

oh the confectionary is rather worth keeping.

A.

-- 
A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A
"As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a 
complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal 
Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)






Re: CPAN Logo

2001-03-30 Thread Elaine -HFB- Ashton

Nathan Torkington [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth:
*
*And I'd like to say that I hope O'Reilly has done nothing to promote
*the confusion.  We make no claims that CPAN is anything to do with us.
*If you find something we've said or done that might cause that confusion,
*please tell us and we'll fix it.

Please stop selling perl books right away ;) I wasn't bashing ORA at all
but pointing out that CPAN is not part of ORA. It's a seemingly easy and
common mistake people make as ORA is the camel is everything Perl to they
who don't see behind the curtain and we aren't going out of our way to
dispel that misconception either since it's just a nit. 

There are a lot of volunteers who keep CPAN running and keep it free from
banner ads and other unwanted dreck. Have you hugged your CPAN mirror
admin today? :)

*Saying the CPAN multiplexor here doesn't count, because Tom did that. :-)
*(and I'm not sure anyone much uses it now, given that the quality of
*service in CPAN mirrors is a billion times better this year than three
*years ago).

The multiplexor was sure cool in its day as, if I'm recalling correctly,
Tom had the first or one of the very first North American mirrors and it
did a good job of directing people to a nearby mirror instead of futzing
with the mirror list.

http://gopher.metronet.com:70/R150051-152499-1m/perlinfo/packrats/mailing-list/96

This was also done before ORA officially took stewardship of www.perl.com.
I think Ask is actually working on an update to the multiplexor to make it
a bit more useful in the days of crazy DNS :)

e.



Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

2001-03-30 Thread Chris Benson

On Fri, Mar 30, 2001 at 01:03:14AM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 On Thu, Mar 29, 2001 at 12:56:37PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
  Try doing Java in Lynx. Or Mosaic. Is there even a plugin for Netscape 
  3.0?
 
 Lynx  Mosaic practically don't exist, demographically speaking.

Bzzzt!  Lynx doesn't exist *in*the*logs* because a Lynx user d/loads
one page sees that the company is basically saying "FUCK OFF I DON'T
WANT YOUR BUSINESS" and never comes back.

Whereas Nescape/IE d/loads 500 separate line segments, icons,
title-bars, tool-bars, spinning logos and other crap and instantly become
"demographic-leaders".

Mmmm, I think I better chill-out a bit.
-- 
Chris Benson -- Lynx user when I can,  Netscape for the crap.



Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

2001-03-30 Thread Simon Cozens

On Fri, Mar 30, 2001 at 09:13:16PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 yip and you build in, a little 10 or 20 quid donation to YAS for
 everyone done, however this would probably be voluntary or some
 such - i dont really know. but if you are doing a training course
 that cost 500+ to attend, 10 or 20 seems reasonable.

I like that. "10% of the fees from this course will be donated to
Yet Another Society." Hmph. I s'pose I'd better join Yet Another
Mailing List. :)

-- 
"Darkly hinting of head hitting desk" 
-- Megahal (trained on asr), 1998-11-05



Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

2001-03-30 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Fri, Mar 30, 2001 at 01:41:14PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
 host(1)'s error messages are often misleading - it can give the message
 "try again" to nxdomain responses, for example...

Given how fast .NSI namespace is being eaten up, that doesn't seem like
such an unrealistic message :-)

Paul



Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

2001-03-30 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Fri, Mar 30, 2001 at 11:50:57AM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
 But things like Avantgo - which are getting more and more users all the
 time - have pretty much the same capabilities as a text-only browser.

From a display point of view, yes, but they certainly have the
capability to run a JVM (J2ME -- micro edition). Right now there
isn't much call for it but there will be (IMO) with wireless services.

Paul