Re: The Most Boring Thread Ever on London.pm : Cool Letter Heads

2001-04-18 Thread Greg McCarroll

* David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 On Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 08:26:55PM -0500, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote:
 
  Damian Conway [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth:
 
   Hecate was the goddess of the night, of magic, and travel at night.
   She was a cousin of Zeus, and dwelt quietly in the Underworld.
  
  Hecate was the daughter of Zeus in another treatment of the history 
  though everyone at some point was spawn of Zeus it would seem.
 
 And in yet another history, she was the daughter of the titans Perses and
 Asteria.
 

Boy, people who just read the weekly summary are in for a shock this week ;-)

Greg

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



RE: JOB: Anyone interested

2001-04-18 Thread Jonathan Peterson

 FYI this particular role wasn't available; they tried to put me up for
 some other things but didn't even get as far as interviews.
 
 Roger (now working elsewhere)

Curious. Identical to my experiences with them.

Jon (soon to be working elsewhere)
 




RE: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Jonathan Peterson


  I note that the Linux distribution of Kodomo contained
 complete distributions
  of Mozilla, Perl and Python.

 /me cancels the download, suggests Activestate acquire some Clue


Isn't that a bit harsh? If the Linux version is a Beta / Alpha type deal it
seems fair enough they want people to test it with known versions of its
dependant apps, no?

It its a full release then sure they should be a bit smarter.




Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 07:12:32PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest
  operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete

You mean, "...if you choose to install an OS over the one we're
actually supporting for those operations"?

Besides 10.0.1 just arrived...

P



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:52:58AM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
  actually supporting for those operations"?
 
 No, I mean "unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system
 which, despite us only supporting a limited number of systems to make it

This is specious. The ad is running for an iMac, whose OS is 9.1.

 easier for us to write all the drivers etc, we still couldn't be arsed
 to complete".

Who said "release early, release often". Apple are doing the right
thing, IMO.

P



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 02:59:51AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 Who said "release early, release often". Apple are doing the right
 thing, IMO.

Probably Eric Raymond.

Which reminds me, there used to be a comment in the code for an
authentication server at Demon:

/* fork early, fork often */

Which was very telling when we found it.

-Dom



Broadcast datagrams

2001-04-18 Thread Paul Makepeace

Anyone hackers here sent broadcast packets? I think this is how you
do it:

#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;

use Socket;
my $dst = inet_aton("172.30.255.255");

socket(SOCKET, PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, getprotobyname("udp"))
or die "socket: $!";
setsockopt(SOCKET, SOL_SOCKET, SO_BROADCAST, pack("l", 1))
or die "setsockopt: $!";
send(SOCKET, "hello", 0, sockaddr_in(6868, INADDR_BROADCAST))  
#send(SOCKET, "hello", 0, sockaddr_in(6868, $dst))
or die "send: $!";

For some reason I'm getting "send: Can't assign requested address"
for INADDR_BROADCAST. How can it *not* assign that? Flipping the
comments over works fine (for that subnet) -- in other words, in my
C code, I have to spelunk the interface list with ioctl()s and then
get the sodding broadcast address. Which is a lot of work :-(

FWIW (this is on the failing machine, yes different subnet),

en0: flags=8963UP,BROADCAST,b6,RUNNING,PROMISC,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST mtu 1500
inet 192.168.0.1 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 192.168.0.255
ether 00:30:65:7e:d1:96 
media: autoselect (none) status: inactive
supported media: none autoselect 10baseT/UTP half-duplex 10baseT/UTP 
full-duplex 100baseTX half-duplex 100baseTX full-duplex

Any ideas?

Paul



What did I miss?

2001-04-18 Thread Lucy McWilliam


'lo again.  Had to unsubscribe over Easter due to an ever-inflating inbox
and an institutionally enforced disk quota. Just to keep this on topic,
has anyone noticed much traffic on the perl-cert list or is my
subscription just funted?


L.
"I wear the cheese.  The cheese does not wear me."




RE: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote:
   I note that the Linux distribution of Kodomo contained
  complete distributions
   of Mozilla, Perl and Python.
 
  /me cancels the download, suggests Activestate acquire some Clue
 
 
 Isn't that a bit harsh? If the Linux version is a Beta / Alpha type deal it
 seems fair enough they want people to test it with known versions of its
 dependant apps, no?

umm .. for a windows install where Activestate Perl seems to be the
standard then yes, its fair enough. For a *nix tool it MUST work with a
standard Perl install or it is of zero use (to me) .. I do not have any
intention of installing Activestate Perl on my Linux box or using it in a
production enviroment.

I've been through all the frustration I can cope with trying to get
various CPAN modules to install with Activestate Perl under windows,
waiting for the 'coming real soon' PPM version only to discover it was
still not the latest release etc etc. (thinks back to DBI::Proxy under
windows ..)  I have no intention of extending that experience to Unix :)

I've sent a mail enquiring as to if it works on top of a standard Perl
installation... 

 It its a full release then sure they should be a bit smarter.

if it doesn't work on a standard Perl install its dead in the water IMHO

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!



Re: What did I miss?

2001-04-18 Thread Simon Cozens

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:28:58AM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:
 has anyone noticed much traffic on the perl-cert list or is my
 subscription just funted?

No. Greg was going to tell us Ze Master Plan. I think it involves
alcohol.

-- 
The best book on programming for the layman is "Alice in Wonderland";
but that's because it's the best book on anything for the layman. 
- Alan Perlis



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:12:30AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 if it doesn't work on a standard Perl install its dead in the water IMHO

FWIW, I agree. Not only that, if it conflicts with existing
distribution's package management that'd be a nightmare.

Paul



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:12:30AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 umm .. for a windows install where Activestate Perl seems to be the
 standard then yes, its fair enough. For a *nix tool it MUST work with a
 standard Perl install or it is of zero use (to me) .. I do not have any
 intention of installing Activestate Perl on my Linux box or using it in a
 production environment.

IMHO the Linux port is an afterthought, most of the effort seems to have
been focused on the Windows side, the integration with Visual Studio
springs to mind.

 I've been through all the frustration I can cope with trying to get
 various CPAN modules to install with Activestate Perl under windows,
 waiting for the 'coming real soon' PPM version only to discover it was
 still not the latest release etc etc. (thinks back to DBI::Proxy under
 windows ..)  I have no intention of extending that experience to Unix :)

Mr Szemeti it seems we have met here before ;)

 I've sent a mail enquiring as to if it works on top of a standard Perl
 installation...

Let us know what they come back with.
 
 if it doesn't work on a standard Perl install its dead in the water IMHO

I can't see it taking off that much in the Nix world anyway, for some
reason IDE's always seem unwelcome (He adds writing this in vi and going
back to xemacs to code ;))

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread David Cantrell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 02:59:51AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:

 On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:52:58AM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:

  No, I mean "unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system
  which, despite us only supporting a limited number of systems to make it
 
 This is specious. The ad is running for an iMac, whose OS is 9.1.

The iMac is one of the platforms supported by OS X.

In fact, CD burning doesn't work under OS X on *any* machine and isn't
shipped pre-installed on any machine, so by your argument, it is wrong to
complain about it being non-functional anywhere.  That doesn't make sense
to me.

  easier for us to write all the drivers etc, we still couldn't be arsed
  to complete".
 
 Who said "release early, release often". Apple are doing the right
 thing, IMO.

When I release early, release often, I don't expect people to pay for the
privelege.

I knew when OS X was originally released that it lacked CDRW support,
and I didn't complain (much).  However, that it *still* lacks it is
inexcusable.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

   Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest
 operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete

** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **



Re: Broadcast datagrams

2001-04-18 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 03:25:09AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 Anyone hackers here sent broadcast packets? I think this is how you
 do it:
 
 #!/usr/bin/perl -w
 use strict;
 
 use Socket;
 my $dst = inet_aton("172.30.255.255");
 
 socket(SOCKET, PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, getprotobyname("udp"))
 or die "socket: $!";
 setsockopt(SOCKET, SOL_SOCKET, SO_BROADCAST, pack("l", 1))
 or die "setsockopt: $!";
 send(SOCKET, "hello", 0, sockaddr_in(6868, INADDR_BROADCAST))  
 #send(SOCKET, "hello", 0, sockaddr_in(6868, $dst))
 or die "send: $!";
 
 For some reason I'm getting "send: Can't assign requested address"
 for INADDR_BROADCAST. How can it *not* assign that? Flipping the
 comments over works fine (for that subnet) -- in other words, in my
 C code, I have to spelunk the interface list with ioctl()s and then
 get the sodding broadcast address. Which is a lot of work :-(
 
 FWIW (this is on the failing machine, yes different subnet),
 
 en0: flags=8963UP,BROADCAST,b6,RUNNING,PROMISC,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST mtu 1500
 inet 192.168.0.1 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 192.168.0.255
 ether 00:30:65:7e:d1:96 
 media: autoselect (none) status: inactive
 supported media: none autoselect 10baseT/UTP half-duplex 10baseT/UTP 
full-duplex 100baseTX half-duplex 100baseTX full-duplex

If you have a complete /usr/src installed, look in there for examples
of how it's done in C (it looks like you have a BSD machine - so it's
quite likely /usr/src is populated).

Darn, your example works on both the Linux and FreeBSD machines I just
tried it on.  What machine are you using?  On both machines, EADDRNOTAVAIL
(what you're seeing) isn't even listed as an error in the man page.

Try running perl under strace or truss or ktrace, whatever your native
tracing tool is.

-Dom



Re: Broadcast datagrams

2001-04-18 Thread Dave Hodgkinson

Paul Makepeace [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Anyone hackers here sent broadcast packets? I think this is how you
 do it:


 Any ideas?

Well covered on page 590 of Stein's book...

;-)

He uses IO::Socket BTW...


-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
   



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:44:38AM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
 The iMac is one of the platforms supported by OS X.

One has to assume anyone installing an OS over a different is
intelligent enough to read the caveats.

 In fact, CD burning doesn't work under OS X on *any* machine and isn't
 shipped pre-installed on any machine, so by your argument, it is wrong to
 complain about it being non-functional anywhere.

You're complaining about an ad being misleading (my possibly wrong
reading). It's for an OS 9.1 system!

Yeah, no burning is a bummer that's definitely true.

 When I release early, release often, I don't expect people to pay for the
 privelege.

That's because you haven't yet written the World's Most Advanced OS :-)

 I knew when OS X was originally released that it lacked CDRW support,
 and I didn't complain (much).  However, that it *still* lacks it is
 inexcusable.

Oh, what, four weeks later? Jesus -- hard to please some people :-)
Not like there are any apps for OS X either!

P



Re: Broadcast datagrams

2001-04-18 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:49:20AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 If you have a complete /usr/src installed, look in there for examples
 of how it's done in C (it looks like you have a BSD machine - so it's
 quite likely /usr/src is populated).

The weird thing is this is even happening with Apple's own nextstep
bootp client (don't ask :) in C, which is originally the language
I was using. I cast the example to perl just to ask here and as a
sanity check.

 Darn, your example works on both the Linux and FreeBSD machines I just
 tried it on.  What machine are you using?  On both machines, EADDRNOTAVAIL

OS X/Darwin.

Thanks for checking though -- I'll keep looking.

Paul



Re: Broadcast datagrams

2001-04-18 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:02:29AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:49:20AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
  If you have a complete /usr/src installed, look in there for examples
  of how it's done in C (it looks like you have a BSD machine - so it's
  quite likely /usr/src is populated).
 
 The weird thing is this is even happening with Apple's own nextstep
 bootp client (don't ask :) in C, which is originally the language
 I was using. I cast the example to perl just to ask here and as a
 sanity check.
 
  Darn, your example works on both the Linux and FreeBSD machines I just
  tried it on.  What machine are you using?  On both machines, EADDRNOTAVAIL
 
 OS X/Darwin.
 
 Thanks for checking though -- I'll keep looking.

You're probably going to have to grep through the kernel source to see
why it's being returned in that case.  And I have a sneaky suspicion
that the networking stuff is quite changed from the "normal" BSDs...

-Dom



Re: Broadcast datagrams

2001-04-18 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 12:11:45PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 You're probably going to have to grep through the kernel source to see
 why it's being returned in that case.  And I have a sneaky suspicion
 that the networking stuff is quite changed from the "normal" BSDs...

I've been using Rich Stevens's bible and stuff compiles copy/pasted.

OK, I can't even ping 255.255.255.255 (when PPP is down, but when it's up
it's OK):

# ping 255.255.255.255
PING broadcasthost (255.255.255.255): 56 data bytes
ping: sendto: No route to host
ping: wrote broadcasthost 64 chars, ret=-1
^C

[ppp up]
# ping 255.255.255.255
PING broadcasthost (255.255.255.255): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 209.232.142.2: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=163.571 ms
64 bytes from 209.232.142.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=2954.65 ms
64 bytes from 209.232.142.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=1968.95 ms

# netstat -nr
Routing tables

Internet:
DestinationGatewayFlags Refs Use Netif
Expire
default209.232.142.2  UGSc30 ppp0
127.0.0.1  127.0.0.1  UH  9 2099  lo0
192.168link#2 UC  00  en0
192.168.0.10:30:65:7e:d1:96   UHLW0   14  lo0
192.168.0.255  ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff  UHLWb   08  en0

So for whatever reason it's not being recognized and turned into an
Ethernet 48bit broadcast.

Paul



Re: Broadcast datagrams

2001-04-18 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:26:56AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 12:11:45PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
  You're probably going to have to grep through the kernel source to see
  why it's being returned in that case.  And I have a sneaky suspicion
  that the networking stuff is quite changed from the "normal" BSDs...
 
 I've been using Rich Stevens's bible and stuff compiles copy/pasted.
 
 OK, I can't even ping 255.255.255.255 (when PPP is down, but when it's up
 it's OK):
 
 # ping 255.255.255.255
 PING broadcasthost (255.255.255.255): 56 data bytes
 ping: sendto: No route to host
 ping: wrote broadcasthost 64 chars, ret=-1
 ^C
 
 [ppp up]
 # ping 255.255.255.255
 PING broadcasthost (255.255.255.255): 56 data bytes
 64 bytes from 209.232.142.2: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=163.571 ms
 64 bytes from 209.232.142.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=2954.65 ms
 64 bytes from 209.232.142.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=1968.95 ms
 
 # netstat -nr
 Routing tables
 
 Internet:
 DestinationGatewayFlags Refs Use Netif
 Expire
 default209.232.142.2  UGSc30 ppp0
 127.0.0.1  127.0.0.1  UH  9 2099  lo0
 192.168link#2 UC  00  en0
 192.168.0.10:30:65:7e:d1:96   UHLW0   14  lo0
 192.168.0.255  ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff  UHLWb   08  en0
 
 So for whatever reason it's not being recognized and turned into an
 Ethernet 48bit broadcast.

Don't forget that there are 4 different kinds of broadcast.  :-)

You're using a "limited broadcast address", which is not being
interpreted specially by the kernel and is going down the default route.
Which probably doesn't exist when you're not dialled up.  Hint:  "route
-n get" is a useful tool for finding out what the kernel would do when
presented with an IP address.

You'd probably be better off using a subnet-directed broadcast, which
does have a route set up for you: 192.168.0.255.

According to the book in front of me (UNP2v1, P472):

"Another question is: what does a multi-homed host do when the
application sends a UDP datagram to 255.255.255.255?  Some systems
send a single broadcast on the primary interface (the first
interface that was configured) with the destination IP address
set to the subnet-directed broadcast address of that interface.
Other systems send one copy of the datagram from each broadcast
capable interface.  Section 3.3.6 of RFC 1122 ``takes no stand''
on this issue.  For portability, however, if an application needs
to send a broadcast out from all broadcast capable interfaces,
it should obtain the interface configuration and do one sendto for
each broadcast capable interface with the destination set to that
interface's broadcast address."

In short, what happens is very system dependent.  :-(

-Dom



Re: Broadcast datagrams

2001-04-18 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 12:41:49PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 According to the book in front of me (UNP2v1, P472):
 
 "Another question is: what does a multi-homed host do when the
 application sends a UDP datagram to 255.255.255.255?  Some systems
 send a single broadcast on the primary interface (the first
 interface that was configured) with the destination IP address
 set to the subnet-directed broadcast address of that interface.
 Other systems send one copy of the datagram from each broadcast
 capable interface.  Section 3.3.6 of RFC 1122 ``takes no stand''
 on this issue.  For portability, however, if an application needs
 to send a broadcast out from all broadcast capable interfaces,
 it should obtain the interface configuration and do one sendto for
 each broadcast capable interface with the destination set to that
 interface's broadcast address."
 
 In short, what happens is very system dependent.  :-(

Thanks very much! That's a great help -- if ffFFffFF doesn't work and
it doesn't necessarily have to that's OK. My original code that is
using ioctl(sockfd, SIOCGIFCONF, (caddr_t)ifconf_list will be pressed
back into service :-)

(push @{$books{Paul}}, "UNP" ;)



CPAN search from mozilla address bar

2001-04-18 Thread Struan Donald

no idea if anyone will find this useful but:

if you use mozilla (on linux/*nix at least) stick this:

search
   name="CPAN"
   description="CPAN Search"
   method="GET"
   action="http://search.cpan.org/search"


input name="mode" value="module"
input name="query" user

/search

in a file called cpan.src in the searhcplugins directory of your
mozilla install. restart mozilla. go the the internet search options, 
select CPAN as your default Search Engine and hey presto, you can now
search cpan direct from the mozilla address bar.

only don't tick the display in my sidebar option as it doesn't work. 

struan



Re: CPAN search from mozilla address bar

2001-04-18 Thread Simon Cozens

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 01:35:25PM +0100, Struan Donald wrote:
 no idea if anyone will find this useful but:
 if you use mozilla (on linux/*nix at least) stick this:

To do something similar for Netscape, look at
http://bofh.concordia.ca/ns/ns-cli.txt
(Netscape can call out to a CGI program to parse "commands" in the location
bar)

-- 
Actually Perl *can* be a Bondage  Discipline language but it's unique
among such languages in that it lets you use safe words. 
-- Piers Cawley



Re: CPAN search from mozilla address bar

2001-04-18 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 01:35:25PM +0100, Struan Donald wrote:
 no idea if anyone will find this useful but:
 
 if you use mozilla (on linux/*nix at least) stick this:
 
 search
name="CPAN"
description="CPAN Search"
method="GET"
action="http://search.cpan.org/search"
 
 
 input name="mode" value="module"
 input name="query" user
 
 /search
 
 in a file called cpan.src in the searhcplugins directory of your
 mozilla install. restart mozilla. go the the internet search options, 
 select CPAN as your default Search Engine and hey presto, you can now
 search cpan direct from the mozilla address bar.
 
 only don't tick the display in my sidebar option as it doesn't work. 

Is there any way to get this installed into my ~/.mozilla directory
instead of installing it globally?  I've tried creating a searchplugins
directory, but it's not being picked up, even when I remove my
localstore.rdf file...

-Dom



Tech mtg?

2001-04-18 Thread Robin Houston

Do we yet know if there's going to be a data projector for
the tech meeting? If not, will there be _any_ kind of mechanism
for showing things to people? (OHP, blackboard, whatever)

 .robin.



Re: Tech mtg?

2001-04-18 Thread Richard Clamp

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 02:24:34PM +0100, Robin Houston wrote:
 Do we yet know if there's going to be a data projector for
 the tech meeting?

Yes, the Fords kindly dontated the use of theirs again, which I picked
up from them on Friday.

Now all that remains is me remebering to bring it tomorrow.

-- 
Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]



RE: Tech mtg?

2001-04-18 Thread dcross - David Cross

From: Robin Houston [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:25 PM

 Do we yet know if there's going to be a data projector for
 the tech meeting? If not, will there be _any_ kind of mechanism
 for showing things to people? (OHP, blackboard, whatever)

Richard had volunteered to go and pick up the projector from Neil and Nat's
house.

Is that still a plan?

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
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system.



Mentioned in Dispatches

2001-04-18 Thread dcross - David Cross


Maybe Robin would care to comment on this :)

http://www.perl.com/pub/2001/04/p5pdigest/THISWEEK-20010408.html#Robin_Hous
ton_Left_On_ALL_WEEK

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.



RE: Tech mtg?

2001-04-18 Thread dcross - David Cross

From: Ian Brayshaw [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 2:41 PM

 Speaking of this meeting, will details be available on the web (such as 
 directions)? Or did I just miss that thread...

Arrgh. Something I forgot to do over the weekend.

Could someone at State51, please put something useful up on the web page -
or post directions to the list - or do _something_ that will make me look a
little less disorganised than I really am!

Dave...


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
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system.



Re: Tech mtg?

2001-04-18 Thread Robin Houston

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 02:30:01PM +0100, Richard Clamp wrote:
 
 Now all that remains is me remebering to bring it tomorrow.

Cool :-)
Now I've got no excuse for not finishing my slides... :/

 .robin.

-- 
Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas!



Re: Mentioned in Dispatches

2001-04-18 Thread Robin Houston

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 02:38:26PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote:
 
 Maybe Robin would care to comment on this :)
 
 http://www.perl.com/pub/2001/04/p5pdigest/THISWEEK-20010408.html#Robin_Hous
 ton_Left_On_ALL_WEEK

I don't have a lot of time on my hands; I work quickly ;-)

I also have a secret mission, which I'll be partially revealing
tomorrow...

 .robin.

-- 
Are we not drawn onward, we few, drawn onward to new era?



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote:

 IMHO the Linux port is an afterthought, most of the effort seems to have
 been focused on the Windows side, the integration with Visual Studio
 springs to mind.

umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats
quite an 'afterthought'. My guess is they see ActiveState Perl as taking
over the world and these tools are simply there to help get it to that
position. 

  I've been through all the frustration I can cope with trying to get
  various CPAN modules to install with Activestate Perl under windows,
  waiting for the 'coming real soon' PPM version only to discover it was
  still not the latest release etc etc. (thinks back to DBI::Proxy under
  windows ..)  I have no intention of extending that experience to Unix :)
 
 Mr Szemeti it seems we have met here before ;)

ahh yes ... :)

 I can't see it taking off that much in the Nix world anyway, for some
 reason IDE's always seem unwelcome (He adds writing this in vi and going
 back to xemacs to code ;))

you can write code in emacs? ... I always thought it was just a news
client ! ( or was it a graphics package .. I forget :)

umm .. sorta. Some IDE's are well liked, Kdevelop for C++ comes to mind,
(which uses gcc ... )

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Struan Donald

* at 18/04 11:58 +0100 Robin Szemeti said:
 On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote:
 
  IMHO the Linux port is an afterthought, most of the effort seems to have
  been focused on the Windows side, the integration with Visual Studio
  springs to mind.
 
 umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats
 quite an 'afterthought'. My guess is they see ActiveState Perl as taking
 over the world and these tools are simply there to help get it to that
 position. 

i do love the sound of figures being plucked from thin air.

struan



RE: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Jonathan Peterson


 umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl
 usauge, thats
 quite an 'afterthought'. My guess is they see ActiveState
 Perl as taking
 over the world and these tools are simply there to help get it to that
 position.

I think it's more than Windows accounts for 75% of the IDE market, rather
than the Perl market...

Anyway, I thought all this stuff about non-standard kinds of Win32 Perl was
sorted out years ago. Activestate Perl is the same as anyone else's Perl,
shurely? All the brain ache surrounding PPM and CPAN modules and XS is not
strictly perl related is it? I mean how the hell do you install CPAN packges
on EPOC perl or Mac Perl or any other platform that doesn't smell of Unix?

I've I'm wrong and Activestate Perl is full of unreleased modifications to
Perl itself or the core libs I'd like to know if it...





RE: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Paul Mison

On 18/04/2001 at 15:58 +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
I mean how the hell do you install CPAN packges on EPOC perl or
Mac Perl or any other platform that doesn't smell of Unix?

On MacPerl, non-XS modules install fine using Chris Nandor's CPAN-mac.
XS modules are, erm, tricky, and usually you wait for someone who can
deal with MPW and who needs them to do the port, although it is
possible to do it if you know enough Mac-oriented C programming.

Apparently it's all changing with MacPerl 5.6.1 which is much closer to
Perl 5.6.1, as p5p people may be noticing.

OS X just uses CPAN like any other *nix, more or less.

--
:: paul
:: becoming the Mac OS 9 recidivist on yet another list





Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread David Cantrell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 03:58:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:

 Anyway, I thought all this stuff about non-standard kinds of Win32 Perl was
 sorted out years ago. Activestate Perl is the same as anyone else's Perl,
 shurely?

It's more because I have a nicely working perl installation right here,
which sits happily in my system's package management system, and I'm not
going to mess with it without a *really* good reason.  I also refuse to
let myself be led down a route which may restrict my ability to upgrade
easily in the future.  I just did 'sudo rpm -Uvh perl*.rpm' and went from
5.6.0 to 5.6.1, with not a single problem.  I doubt it'll be that easy
with Activestate and I don't want to find out the hard way that it isn't.
They *must* work with any old perl distro (of the right version, of course)
or even one that $user has compiled from sources, if they are to be taken
seriously.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

   Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest
 operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete

** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:58:00AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats
 quite an 'afterthought'. My guess is they see ActiveState Perl as taking
 over the world and these tools are simply there to help get it to that
 position.

And what percentage of that 75% are likely to buy an ide? Windows is a
better target market for things like this, the need is there but the
competition is not. Activestate is in a position of power in the Windows
world, they have the Windows Perl market pretty much wrapped up and by the
time someone else really tries to get into the race they'll find its
already over. I know that their are alternatives like the Indigo and 
Siemens distros but neither are really commercial.

Also in your guess at 75% you've hit a very important point. 25% of the
Windows market is a lot bigger than 75% of the Linux market, ActiveState is
a business and at the end of the day they have a much bigger (I assume ;))
market in the hordes of IDEless Windows users. And if we can sway some of
the other 75% of Windows users across to the dark side by getting Perl
associated with household products like Visual Studio then the more the
merrier ;)

 you can write code in emacs?

Apparently if you install enough major modes you can even edit text in
it... ;)
 
 umm .. sorta. Some IDE's are well liked, Kdevelop for C++ comes to mind,
 (which uses gcc ... )

I've been using this for C coding recently and its not too bad. It has a
couple of nice tricks though like clicking on the compile errors and being
taken to the line. Kdevelop follows the very good idea of not trying to
replace the compiler. DDD is another app that does this well but its just
another example that GUI's are not as popular as the command lines tools.
Yet.

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Barbie

From: "Jonathan Peterson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Anyway, I thought all this stuff about non-standard kinds of Win32 Perl
was
 sorted out years ago. Activestate Perl is the same as anyone else's Perl,
 shurely? All the brain ache surrounding PPM and CPAN modules and XS is not
 strictly perl related is it? I mean how the hell do you install CPAN
packges
 on EPOC perl or Mac Perl or any other platform that doesn't smell of Unix?

 I've I'm wrong and Activestate Perl is full of unreleased modifications to
 Perl itself or the core libs I'd like to know if it...

Unfortunately there is a difference between PPM and CPAN modules, which is
why you need to check whether the module you require is in the ActiveState
repository or the Package List. If you want anything extra curricular (e.g.
Template Toolkit) you'll need nmake and hope it works under windows from
CPAN.

The good thing about PPM is that it does all the installation for you. the
bad thing is that it doesn't run any tests. Then again seeing as they've
done the job of porting the package you'd hope it was tested at their end.
At least that's what _I'm_ hoping.

Barbie.





Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread Mike Jarvis

CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz.

Of course he'll probably be attacked by vampires before that can
actually happen.

-- 
mike





Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:26:42PM +0100, Dean wrote:
 I've been using this for C coding recently and its not too bad. It has a
 couple of nice tricks though like clicking on the compile errors and being
 taken to the line. 

Emacs has been able to do this for probably 10 years or more.  I think
even vim can do it now, too.

Emacs *is* an IDE.  It just doesn't look like all the other ones.

-Dom (oops, was that inflammatory?)



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 03:58:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
 I think it's more than Windows accounts for 75% of the IDE market, rather
 than the Perl market...
 
 Anyway, I thought all this stuff about non-standard kinds of Win32 Perl was
 sorted out years ago. Activestate Perl is the same as anyone else's Perl,
 shurely? All the brain ache surrounding PPM and CPAN modules and XS is not
 strictly perl related is it? I mean how the hell do you install CPAN packges
 on EPOC perl or Mac Perl or any other platform that doesn't smell of Unix?

Your right, the perls are the same ActiveState are just a lot more aware of
what the OS can do and lacks the ability to do and tries to compensate for
them. If you have a stocked Windows box with nmake, VC++ and a bit of time
you can get CPAN working on it.

ActiveState also comes with some other stuff like the ability to use perl
in place of ASP and stuff like pl2bat. You can compile and use your own
perl just like you could on a Linux box but it just takes a bit more
effort and as the NMS project is showing making things easy is a good
thing. (Right watch Cantrell butcher me ;))

 I've I'm wrong and Activestate Perl is full of unreleased modifications to
 Perl itself 

Ahh yes, through the ActiveState way you can control clippit ;)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:17:00PM +0100, Paul Mison wrote:
 On MacPerl, non-XS modules install fine using Chris Nandor's CPAN-mac.
 XS modules are, erm, tricky, and usually you wait for someone who can

 deal with MPW and who needs them to do the port, although it is
 possible to do it if you know enough Mac-oriented C programming.

Whats MPW?

 OS X just uses CPAN like any other *nix, more or less.

Does OS X come with GNU tools like GCC and make then?

Dean (Clueless when it comes to macs.)
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Simon Wistow

Dean wrote:

 I've been using [Kdevelop] for C coding recently and its not too bad. It has a
 couple of nice tricks though like clicking on the compile errors and being
 taken to the line. 


Ultraedit does this. It's great and I love it. And it works under Wine.



Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:29:43AM -0500, Mike Jarvis wrote:
 CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz.
 
 Of course he'll probably be attacked by vampires before that can
 actually happen.

Or Greg ;)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Win32 perl (was: Komodo)

2001-04-18 Thread Robin Houston

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:34:17PM +0100, Dean wrote:
 
 Your right, the perls are the same ActiveState are just a lot more aware of
 what the OS can do and lacks the ability to do and tries to compensate for
 them. If you have a stocked Windows box with nmake, VC++ and a bit of time
 you can get CPAN working on it.

You don't even need to pander to the evil empire. dmake will
work in place of nmake, and mingw32 (ie. egcs) works fine for
building perl and modules.

Last time I did this was a couple of years ago, and it took
a _long_ time to compile perl itself. Maybe they've made it
faster now.

 .robin.

-- 
A man, a plan, a cat, a ham, a yak, a yam, a hat, a canal--Panama!
--Guy Jacobson



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Paul Mison

On 18/04/2001 at 16:36 +0100, Dean wrote:
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:17:00PM +0100, Paul Mison wrote:
 On MacPerl, non-XS modules install fine using Chris Nandor's CPAN-mac.
 XS modules are, erm, tricky, and usually you wait for someone who can

 deal with MPW and who needs them to do the port, although it is
 possible to do it if you know enough Mac-oriented C programming.

Whats MPW?

Macintosh Programmer's Workshop: in the full version, includes a shell
(yes, on a Mac OS before X!), C and C++ compiler, and various other
shellish things. It's free too. (Free as in beer, anyway.)

http://developer.apple.com/tools/mpw-tools/

 OS X just uses CPAN like any other *nix, more or less.

Does OS X come with GNU tools like GCC and make then?

Yes, but they're not installed by default. (I can't remember if the
'BSD subsystem' is installed by default either though.) It comes on a
seperate CD within the OS X shrinkwrap box- you also get OS 9 and OS X
base install.

You also get ProjectBuilder IDE.

http://developer.apple.com/tools/projectbuilder/

--
:: paul
:: fairly clueless with Windows these days





Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Robin Houston

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:36:08PM +0100, Dean wrote:
 Whats MPW?

Macintosh Programmers' Workshop. Delicious...

 Does OS X come with GNU tools like GCC and make then?

Yes (on the optional developers CD)

 .robin.

-- 
Are we not drawn onward, we few, drawn onward to new era?



RE: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread dcross - David Cross

From: Mike Jarvis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 4:30 PM

 CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz.

Why would that bother us? Remember, we're all Willow fans here.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:34:49PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 Emacs has been able to do this for probably 10 years or more.  I think
 even vim can do it now, too.

Never noticed that! I normally edit my code in emacs and do the compiling
on the command line in another term, never got too comfortable with doing
everything in xemacs.
 
 Emacs *is* an IDE.  It just doesn't look like all the other ones.
I was going to argue about the foot print but i use Visual Studio on
occasion ;)

-Dom (oops, was that inflammatory?)

Nah.
Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:47:57PM +0100, Dean wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:34:49PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
  Emacs has been able to do this for probably 10 years or more.  I think
  even vim can do it now, too.
 
 Never noticed that! I normally edit my code in emacs and do the compiling
 on the command line in another term, never got too comfortable with doing
 everything in xemacs.

There's a nice big "compile" button on the toolbar.  When the errors
come up, just hit your middle button on them in the *compile* buffer.
Couldn't be easier.

-Dom



Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread Martin Ling

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:55:58PM +0100, Struan Donald wrote:
 
  Dean (Cordelia fan)
 
 heresy is all very well and good but surely there are limits?

Hmm. I know someone who quite fancies Anya.


Martin

$willow++;



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Philip Newton

Barbie wrote:
 The good thing about PPM is that it does all the installation 
 for you. the bad thing is that it doesn't run any tests. Then
 again seeing as they've done the job of porting the package
 you'd hope it was tested at their end. At least that's what
 _I'm_ hoping.

Yes. The PPM used to be really meagre with builds 5xx (5.005_**) but with
6xx (5.6.*) the situation has improved. I believe they have some kind of
semi-automated way of making PPMs from CPAN modules.

They have stated that they'll only PPM modules (or versions of modules) that
pass their own tests on Windows. I believe the PPM version of Compress::Zlib
or Archive::Tar or some such was lagging behind the CPAN release by a couple
of versions because the newer versions didn't pass their own tests. So if
it's PPMable, it's supposedly been tested by ActiveState (perhaps not by a
person, but at least automatically).

Cheers,
Philip
-- 
Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.



Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread AEF



On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Martin Ling wrote:

 Hmm. I know someone who quite fancies Anya.

 Mmm. Anya.

 Tony




Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread Philip Newton

Mike Jarvis wrote:
 CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz.

Who's he? Is he that Wesley bloke that I haven't seen yet?

(Note to self: must get around to watching all those Buffy episodes I have
on CD.)

Cheers,
Philip

PS: $willow++;
-- 
Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.



RE: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread dcross - David Cross

From: Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 5:39 PM

 Mike Jarvis wrote:
  CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz.
 
 Who's he? Is he that Wesley bloke that I haven't seen yet?

Nah. He's a nobody who's been dating SMG for a while. Apparently they're
going to be in the live action Scooby Doo movie together. He's playing
Freddie and she's playing Daphne.

Alexis Denisof (who plays Wesley) is going out with Alyson Hannigan
(Willow).

Dave...
[local "Hello" correspondent]

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.



Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 05:43:20PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote:
 Alexis Denisof (who plays Wesley) is going out with Alyson Hannigan
 (Willow).

For some reason, this is made even worse by the automatic word
association of "Wesley" and "Crusher".

Excuse me whilst I puke now.

-Dom



RE: Tech mtg?

2001-04-18 Thread jo walsh


 Could someone at State51, please put something useful up on the web page -
 or post directions to the list - or do _something_ that will make me look a
 little less disorganised than I really am!

state51, 8-10 rhoda street, off brick lane just past junction with bethnal
green road:
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=533817Y=182479A=YZ=1

tube bethnal green/aldgate east 10 mins, old street/liverpool street 15.
number 8 bus (west end - tcr - holborn - bank - right outside here)

phone us on 0207 729 4343

this all gives me a creeping sense of deja type, i'll stick something up
on the web site if i have time, or if that will give me an excuse for
having no actually working demos for tomorrow

looking forward to seeing many of you,

jo


--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://state51.co.uk
isnt technology a wonder invention






Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread Struan Donald

* at 18/04 17:47 +0100 Dominic Mitchell said:
 On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 05:43:20PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote:
  Alexis Denisof (who plays Wesley) is going out with Alyson Hannigan
  (Willow).
 
 For some reason, this is made even worse by the automatic word
 association of "Wesley" and "Crusher".

ah, the curse of the TNG generation. I imagine there'll be a real dearth
of wesleys for the next 10 to 20 years.

struan



RE: Tech mtg?

2001-04-18 Thread jo walsh


 this all gives me a creeping sense of deja type

yeah, i've just looked and realised it says almost exactly the same thing
on the website, except in more detail:
http://london.pm.org/WhatDo.shtml

oh well, i made a nice page for us:
http://london.pm.org/places/state51.html

ho hum,

jo





RE: Tech mtg?

2001-04-18 Thread Ian Brayshaw

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=533817Y=182479A=YZ=1

Thanks Jo.


Ian

_
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.




Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread Martin Ling

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 05:54:46PM +0100, Struan Donald wrote:
 
 ah, the curse of the TNG generation. I imagine there'll be a real dearth
 of wesleys for the next 10 to 20 years.

Not to mention Buffys. And probably some more, but I'm really rather out
of touch with any $TV ne 'Buffy'...


Martin



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:58:00AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
  umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats
  quite an 'afterthought'. My guess is they see ActiveState Perl as taking
  over the world and these tools are simply there to help get it to that
  position.
 
 And what percentage of that 75% are likely to buy an ide?



 Also in your guess at 75% you've hit a very important point. 25% of the
 Windows market is a lot bigger than 75% of the Linux market,

your logic is hopelessly flawed. 25% of the windows market is not what
you need as the 'windows market' consists mainly of secrataries and home
users .. 75% of a Linux market (~100% of which use Perl in some way) is
MUCH bigger than 25% of a windows market (0.001% of which would know a
programming langauge if it ran up to them in the street and bit them) I'd
say the programming market is roughly 50% windows/something else, so
whilst windows might have a large user following, its got a relativley
small developer following and thats who you need to play to.

 ActiveState is
 a business and at the end of the day they have a much bigger (I assume ;))
 market in the hordes of IDEless Windows users. And if we can sway some of
 the other 75% of Windows users across to the dark side by getting Perl
 associated with household products like Visual Studio then the more the
 merrier ;)

here I agree totally .. if it gets windows point and click programmers
using perl it gets my 100% support.

if it tries to make me use some weirdo Perl build on linux that is not
compatible with various other things then it can go boil its head.

 
  you can write code in emacs?
 
 Apparently if you install enough major modes you can even edit text in
 it... ;)

stop winding me up .. everyone knows emacs is a firewall configuration
tool with some other bits bolted on ...  dont you just press C-x C-alt-b
C-shift-alt-z alt-y pageup-alt-escape-shift-~ to make it insert a space
or somesuch?

  umm .. sorta. Some IDE's are well liked, Kdevelop for C++ comes to mind,
  (which uses gcc ... )
 
 I've been using this for C coding recently and its not too bad. It has a
 couple of nice tricks though like clicking on the compile errors and being
 taken to the line. Kdevelop follows the very good idea of not trying to
 replace the compiler. DDD is another app that does this well but its just
 another example that GUI's are not as popular as the command lines tools.
 Yet.

I think you'll find that where a tool has a decent UI and helps rather
than hinders it will become accepted. if its more trouble than NOT having
it then, strangely, it will bomb out like a thing that bombs out a lot.

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!



RE: Tech mtg?

2001-04-18 Thread Dave Cross

At 17:08 18/04/2001, jo walsh wrote:

  this all gives me a creeping sense of deja type

yeah, i've just looked and realised it says almost exactly the same thing
on the website, except in more detail:
http://london.pm.org/WhatDo.shtml

Did _I_ do that? Whatever happened to my memory? (rhetorical!)

Dave...



-- 
http://www.dave.org.uk  SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug




The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread Dave Cross


Remember the Liz Castro BBS that I was talking about a few weeks ago. Simon 
mentioned that a couple of the natives were getting restless and seemed 
uncomfortable with me being there.

Well, one of them has finally snapped and is currently having a real go at 
me. If you want to take a look, read the thread that starts at:

http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453

Enjoy,

Dave...


-- 
http://www.dave.org.uk  SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug




Re: Broadcast datagrams

2001-04-18 Thread Chris Benson

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 03:25:09AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 Anyone hackers here sent broadcast packets? I think this is how you
 do it:
 
 #!/usr/bin/perl -w
 use strict;
 
 use Socket;
 my $dst = inet_aton("172.30.255.255");
 
 socket(SOCKET, PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, getprotobyname("udp"))
 or die "socket: $!";
 setsockopt(SOCKET, SOL_SOCKET, SO_BROADCAST, pack("l", 1))
 or die "setsockopt: $!";
 send(SOCKET, "hello", 0, sockaddr_in(6868, INADDR_BROADCAST))  
 #send(SOCKET, "hello", 0, sockaddr_in(6868, $dst))
 or die "send: $!";

I'd agree, tho' I don't think you need to pack() the last arg to
setsockopt().
 
 For some reason I'm getting "send: Can't assign requested address"
 for INADDR_BROADCAST. How can it *not* assign that? Flipping the

I had a lot of fungames with this (before LDS's book came out!):
Trying both IO::Socket and Socket.pm, I could do either read or
write but not both ... and had that msg.
My definitely working version is:

socket(SOCK, PF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, getprotobyname('udp'))
|| die "$prog: socket: $!\n";
...
my $rip = INADDR_BROADCAST;
$rip = inet_aton($opt{d})   if defined $opt{d};
my $raddr = sockaddr_in($opt{p}, $rip);
setsockopt(SOCK, SOL_SOCKET, SO_BROADCAST, 1)   
|| die "$prog: setsockopt: $!\n";
send(SOCK, $msg . "\015\012", 0, $raddr) 
|| die "$prog: send: $!\n";

Which looks the same but for the pack().

-- 
Chris Benson



Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 
 http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453
 

JS! stop it i'm replying!

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread David Cantrell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:

 * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  
  http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453
  
 
 JS! stop it i'm replying!

LOL at Greg's post.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

   Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest
 operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete

** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **



Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread Greg McCarroll



*grins*



* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 
 Remember the Liz Castro BBS that I was talking about a few weeks ago. Simon 
 mentioned that a couple of the natives were getting restless and seemed 
 uncomfortable with me being there.
 
 Well, one of them has finally snapped and is currently having a real go at 
 me. If you want to take a look, read the thread that starts at:
 
 http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453
 
 Enjoy,
 
 Dave...
 
 
 -- 
 http://www.dave.org.uk  SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug
-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Beginners Guide

2001-04-18 Thread Nicholas Clark

On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 08:33:29PM +0100, Chris Benson wrote:
 On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 10:52:57AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
  * Robin Szemeti ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
technical meeting then you can either video it or watch the repeat on 00:35
on Friday night/Saturday morning.
   
   umm .. would now be a good time to point out I don't have a television?

 I assume everyone (that's interested) knows about 'Ask Buffy' at
   http://www.securityportal.com/buffy/ 
 By Buffy Overflow ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 

And there was me thinking that Chris was going to say that he doesn't have
a TV either. But he didn't. I don't have a TV. But I'm currently camped out
in my parents house, and they have 2. But I learn that they will both be
obsolete in 5 years when we all the analogue TV transmitters are turned off.
Is that relevant? :-)

Nicholas Clark



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Simon Cozens

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:58:00AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats
 quite an 'afterthought'. 

That's irrelevant. ActiveState's business is 90% Windows, so they do Windows
first.

-- 
ZenHam heh, yeah, but Aretha could be reading out /etc/services and
kick just so much ass :)



Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread Dave Cross

At 21:39 18/04/2001, David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:

  * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  
   http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453
  
 
  JS! stop it i'm replying!

LOL at Greg's post.

Greg++



-- 
http://www.dave.org.uk  SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug




Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread Simon Cozens

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:29:43AM -0500, Mike Jarvis wrote:
 CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz.

You know you've been core hacking too long when you read that as "SVtB's set
magic".

-- 
Um. There is no David conspiracy. Definitely not. No Kate conspiracy either.
No. No, there is definitely not any sort of David conspiracy, and we are
definitely *not* in league with the Kate conspiracy. Who doesn't exist. And
nor does the David conspiracy. No. No conspiracies here. - Thorfinn, ASR



Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread Dave Cross

At 21:39 18/04/2001, David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:

  * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  
   http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453
  
 
  JS! stop it i'm replying!

LOL at Greg's post.

And now this in a new thread:

"Usually BK is the right one. And from what I see, the codes your are 
handing out are a bumch of BS. The codes maybe right but they are a long 
way of doing things and I agree with BK. The help you give out is really 
not that great."

Dave...



-- 
http://www.dave.org.uk  SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug




Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Dave Cross wrote:

 At 21:39 18/04/2001, David Cantrell wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 
   * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
   
http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453
   
  
   JS! stop it i'm replying!
 
 LOL at Greg's post.

 Greg++


You've upset them now :

http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4473

/J\




Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread Dave Cross

At 22:13 18/04/2001, Jonathan Stowe wrote:
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Dave Cross wrote:

  At 21:39 18/04/2001, David Cantrell wrote:
  On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
  
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

 http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453

   
JS! stop it i'm replying!
  
  LOL at Greg's post.
 
  Greg++
 

You've upset them now :

http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4473

I dunno. You try to do a nice thing for people

Some of the most fun on the board can be found by reading member's personal 
profiles:

bk:http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=bk
Chris: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=chris

Dave...



-- 
http://www.dave.org.uk  SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug




Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread David H. Adler

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 07:12:27PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 
 stop winding me up .. everyone knows emacs is a firewall configuration
 tool with some other bits bolted on ...  dont you just press C-x C-alt-b
 C-shift-alt-z alt-y pageup-alt-escape-shift-~ to make it insert a space
 or somesuch?

You must have an old version.  That's been aliased to the spacebar for
ages now...

dha
-- 
David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
"I HAVE HAD A SEIZURE"  "I THINK I WIN THEN"
- http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity473.html



Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread David Cantrell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:20:51PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote:

 bk:http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=bk
 Chris: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=chris

ROFLMAO!

and for your edification, 'chris' just wrote in reply to jns:

" And I can program better than you any day of the week. Bring it on if
  you want a challange. I will totally blow you and any supporter away
  in a programming match. "

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

   Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest
 operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete

** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:58:00AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
  umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats
  quite an 'afterthought'. 
 
 That's irrelevant. ActiveState's business is 90% Windows, so they do Windows
 first.

which is why I said somewhere .. something like ' if it requires
activestate perl  then thats fine for windows, but its dead in the water
for linux'

I appreciate what AS do for windows, if what htey do gets windows
developers using perl then they have my 100% support.  I can not see
however a place in linux for any perl IDE that doesnt use a standard perl
install. simple as that.

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Simon Cozens

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:23:34PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 I can not see however a place in linux for any perl IDE that doesnt use a
 standard perl install. simple as that.

Then don't buy one. Those who do, will. Isn't the free market great?

-- 
Doubt is a pain too lonely to know that faith is his twin brother.
- Kahlil Gibran



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:23:34PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
  I can not see however a place in linux for any perl IDE that doesnt use a
  standard perl install. simple as that.
 
 Then don't buy one. Those who do, will. Isn't the free market great?

but I should also add that I see anyhting which looks like splintering
the nice world of One Big [*nix] Perl [1] into several different
incompatible versions a Bad Thing and will make smelly noises about it
and blow raspberries whenever I see it :)

[1] well alright theres 4 (no .. really that is still in use in places )
and 5.005 and 5.6.x and macperl .. but apart from that

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Simon Cozens

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:34:30PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 but I should also add that I see anyhting which looks like splintering
 the nice world of One Big [*nix] Perl [1] into several different
 incompatible

AS Perl on Unix isn't incompatible.

-- 
dngor Every little bit of seaweed kelps.



Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread Neil Ford

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:20:51PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote:
 At 22:13 18/04/2001, Jonathan Stowe wrote:
 On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
 
   At 21:39 18/04/2001, David Cantrell wrote:
   On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
   
 * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 
  http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453
 

 JS! stop it i'm replying!
   
   LOL at Greg's post.
  
   Greg++
  
 
 You've upset them now :
 
 http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4473
 
 I dunno. You try to do a nice thing for people
 
 Some of the most fun on the board can be found by reading member's personal 
 profiles:
 
 bk:http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=bk
 Chris: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=chris
 
One does have to wonder about someone called [EMAIL PROTECTED] :-)
Kinda say's it all

Neil.



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, you wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:34:30PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
  but I should also add that I see anyhting which looks like splintering
  the nice world of One Big [*nix] Perl [1] into several different
  incompatible
 
 AS Perl on Unix isn't incompatible.

can't honestly say that I've tried it ..  you have the better of me
there. My only experience with AS Perl is under windows and it was not
that great. It was shed loads better than no Perl at all though, so
thanks to em for that.

in the *nix variant can you load stuff from CPAN straight in ?

my understanding was that you had to wait for some strange process to
occur and a .ppm file to appear or you couldn't load the stuff up. .. but
I could be worng. 

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!



Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread Neil Ford

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:20:51PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote:
 
 I dunno. You try to do a nice thing for people
 
 Some of the most fun on the board can be found by reading member's personal 
 profiles:
 
 bk:http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=bk
 Chris: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=chris
 
And interestingly they both have websites hosted on virtualave.net u

(Okay I was bored and followed the links)

Neil.



Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread Roger Horne

On Wed 18 Apr, David Cantrell wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:20:51PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote:
 
  bk:http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=bk
  Chris: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=chris
 
 ROFLMAO!
 
 and for your edification, 'chris' just wrote in reply to jns:
 
 " And I can program better than you any day of the week. Bring it on if
   you want a challange. I will totally blow you and any supporter away
   in a programming match. "
 
But they *are* only children. ("Chris" claims to be 13 and I bet the others
are not much older.)

Far more interesting is that Castro claims that the "profiles" are copyright
1998 Elizabeth Castro.

(Although "Chris"'s website http://storedscripts.virtualave.net/ is quite,
um, entertaining ...)

   
Roger
(A *much* older amateur)
-- 
Roger Horne
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.hrothgar.co.uk/



Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread Marcel Grunauer

On Wednesday, April 18, 2001, at 11:55  PM, Neil Ford wrote:

 One does have to wonder about someone called [EMAIL PROTECTED] :-)
 Kinda say's it all

 Neil.


Apparently 13 years old. Bless.


(Apologies if this comes through as HTML mail - i'm trying to get mail 
set up on OS X, but can't get nmh to work, so I'm using OS X's Mail at 
the moment. Will hack tools in Perl, though.)

Marcel
--
Damnit, where did the .sig go?



Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread David Cantrell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:55:20PM +0100, Neil Ford wrote:

 One does have to wonder about someone called [EMAIL PROTECTED] :-)
 Kinda say's it all

Yeah, psy-cop I can understand, but what on earth is rograming, and why
would he want to do it to psy-cops?

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

   Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest
 operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete

** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **



Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread Neil Ford

On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:03:20AM +0200, Marcel Grunauer wrote:
 
 (Apologies if this comes through as HTML mail - i'm trying to get mail 
 set up on OS X, but can't get nmh to work, so I'm using OS X's Mail at 
 the moment. Will hack tools in Perl, though.)
 
Use Mutt :-) You'll have to re-compile ncurses (the port is b0rked :-( ), but
it works lovely.

Neil.



Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread Marcel Grunauer

On Thursday, April 19, 2001, at 12:12  AM, Neil Ford wrote:

 On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:03:20AM +0200, Marcel Grunauer wrote:

 (Apologies if this comes through as HTML mail - i'm trying to get mail
 set up on OS X, but can't get nmh to work, so I'm using OS X's Mail at
 the moment. Will hack tools in Perl, though.)

 Use Mutt :-) You'll have to re-compile ncurses (the port is 
 b0rked :-( ), but
 it works lovely.

 Neil.

I have installed mutt, but just can't warm to it. I like nmh, and using 
the Mail::Box family of modules, I'll rewrite those tools in Perl 
(sometime this summer, where there will be SpareTime). Until then, Mac 
Mail seems to do.

It seems like a good opportunity to question taking the availability of 
a lot of things as a given. For example, nmh. And graphviz - just can't 
get it to work, and not just because of fonts. Or sendmail - I haven't 
really used it much, just to route my personal mail; but  if certain 
basic tools were available in Perl, they'd run wherever Perl runs.

Ah, independence.

Marcel

--
We are Perl. Your table will be assimilated. Your waiter will adapt to
service us. Surrender your beer. Resistance is futile.
  -- London.pm strategy aka "embrace and extend" aka "mark and sweep"



Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread David H. Adler

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:43:09PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote:
 From: Mike Jarvis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 4:30 PM
 
  CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz.
 
 Why would that bother us? Remember, we're all Willow fans here.

Heh.  A friend of mine just asked me if I was upset about this, and my
response was similar...

dha

-- 
David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
"Perl Porters, Inc. today announced the release of version .006 of
their popular Perl5 compiler suite, codenamed `Rabid Rat'."
- Nathan Torkington on p5p (this was a *joke*)



Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread David H. Adler

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 05:43:20PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote:
 From: Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 5:39 PM
 
  Mike Jarvis wrote:
   CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz.
  
  Who's he? Is he that Wesley bloke that I haven't seen yet?
 
 Nah. He's a nobody who's been dating SMG for a while.

Clarification:  That's Freddie Prinz, Jr.  His father was the star of
Chico and the Man, a sitcom of, uh, mid-70s vintage, I think.  Don't
know if it ever made it across the water, though.

dha

-- 
David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
Oh, the irony.
- Abigail



Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread Greg McCarroll

* David H. Adler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:43:09PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote:
  From: Mike Jarvis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 4:30 PM
  
   CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz.
  
  Why would that bother us? Remember, we're all Willow fans here.
 
 Heh.  A friend of mine just asked me if I was upset about this, and my
 response was similar...
 

Just like Davina McCall she waited until i was married before she gave
up and settled for second best!

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread Marcel Grunauer

On Thursday, April 19, 2001, at 12:36  AM, David H. Adler wrote:

 On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:43:09PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote:
 From: Mike Jarvis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 4:30 PM

 CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz.

 Why would that bother us? Remember, we're all Willow fans here.

 Heh.  A friend of mine just asked me if I was upset about this, and my
 response was similar...

Likewise. However, to both I'd have to prefer Riley.

Marcel

--
We are Perl. Your table will be assimilated. Your waiter will adapt to
service us. Surrender your beer. Resistance is futile.
  -- London.pm strategy aka "embrace and extend" aka "mark and sweep"



Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:20:45AM +0200, Marcel Grunauer wrote:
 get it to work, and not just because of fonts. Or sendmail - I haven't 
 really used it much, just to route my personal mail;

I ported exim to OS X last week, it was very easy and runs fine
(qmail was a dog). Give me another day or so and there'll be a shiny
maildir-supporting POP daemon...

Is it just me or is OS X's sendmail broken out of the box?
Apr 18 16:10:03 localhost sendmail[578]: My unqualified host name (localhost) unknown; 
sleeping for retry

Paul



Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Marcel Grunauer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 
 Likewise. However, to both I'd have to prefer Riley.
 

bah, Angel is the right answer to this variation. Riley is just for
those that don't like a challenge!


-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread Mike Jarvis

Wednesday, April 18, 2001, 5:37:22 PM, David H. Adler wrote:
  Mike Jarvis wrote:
   CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz.

DHA Clarification:  That's Freddie Prinz, Jr.  His father was the star of
DHA Chico and the Man, a sitcom of, uh, mid-70s vintage, I think.  Don't
DHA know if it ever made it across the water, though.

Since Sr. is dead, I didn't think there was much chance of confusion.
 Unless she's waay too into character.

-- 
mike





Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Mike Jarvis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 Wednesday, April 18, 2001, 5:37:22 PM, David H. Adler wrote:
   Mike Jarvis wrote:
CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz.
 
 DHA Clarification:  That's Freddie Prinz, Jr.  His father was the star of
 DHA Chico and the Man, a sitcom of, uh, mid-70s vintage, I think.  Don't
 DHA know if it ever made it across the water, though.
 
 Since Sr. is dead, 

Buffy always did dig dead guys, and don't start this SMG talk, everyone
knows that is Buffy's stage name, not her real name - which is Buffy Summers.

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread Lucy McWilliam


On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Marcel Grunauer wrote:

  CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz.
  Why would that bother us? Remember, we're all Willow fans here.
  Heh.  A friend of mine just asked me if I was upset about this, and my
  response was similar...
 Likewise. However, to both I'd have to prefer Riley.

Can I just add 'Spike!'.


L.
"I wear the cheese.  The cheese does not wear me."




Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread Dave Hodgkinson

Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 * Mike Jarvis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  Wednesday, April 18, 2001, 5:37:22 PM, David H. Adler wrote:
Mike Jarvis wrote:
 CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz.
  
  DHA Clarification:  That's Freddie Prinz, Jr.  His father was the star of
  DHA Chico and the Man, a sitcom of, uh, mid-70s vintage, I think.  Don't
  DHA know if it ever made it across the water, though.
  
  Since Sr. is dead, 
 
 Buffy always did dig dead guys...

Dig _up_ dead guys?

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy