Re: Microsoft.FUKT

2001-05-04 Thread will

- Original Message -
From: Paul Makepeace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: London.pm [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 3:09 PM
Subject: Microsoft.FUKT


 ``Microsoft is preparing a broad campaign countering the movement to give
 away and share software code, arguing that it potentially undermines
 the intellectual property of countries and companies. At the same time,
 the company is acknowledging that it is feeling pressure from the
 freely shared alternatives to its commercial software.''

 This is great news for people who aren't huge fans of Redmond Empire --
 not only is the spinfo in the article largely wrong (but superficially
 plausible, typical FUD) but there's nothing they can do about it!
 They're in trouble and they know it.

 http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/03/technology/03SOFT.html

 user/pass london.pm/london.pm


Microsoft and one of its software strategists, will argue that the company
already follows the best attributes of the open-source model by sharing the
original programmer's instructions, or source code, more widely than is
generally realized.

I thought that this only counted if you gave the code away on purpose?  :-)





RE: Microsoft.FUKT

2001-05-04 Thread Robert Thompson


  This is great news for people who aren't huge fans of 
 Redmond Empire --
  not only is the spinfo in the article largely wrong (but 
 superficially
  plausible, typical FUD) but there's nothing they can do about it!
  They're in trouble and they know it.
 
  http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/03/technology/03SOFT.html
 
  user/pass london.pm/london.pm
 
 
 Microsoft and one of its software strategists, will argue 
 that the company
 already follows the best attributes of the open-source model 
 by sharing the
 original programmer's instructions, or source code, more 
 widely than is
 generally realized.
 

As long as you sign a non-disclosure agreement, submit any fixes to
Microsoft and don't let anyone else know what those fixes are, or even
necessarily that the bugs exist.

And Microsoft own all the rights to the resultant code.

Have I missed anything?

Rob

Microsoft - redefining the standard


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Re: Apocalypse Two

2001-05-04 Thread Piers Cawley

Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 09:48:46AM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
  
   And much, much more!
  
  we'll switch to using . instead of -
  
  Yay!!
 
 p6-languageBut then what do you use to concatenate?/ :) 
 
 Don't miss the smiley, I don't actually care.
 
 I'm really looking forward to apoc9, multi-dimensional slices makes my
 brain water.

Properties are already looking pretty scary.

-- 
Piers Cawley
www.iterative-software.com




Re: Apocalypse Two

2001-05-04 Thread Richard Clamp

On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 10:25:07AM +0100, Struan Donald wrote:
 i kind of like - from a visual point of view.

Your eyes will be adapted to server perl6.
/borg

-- 
Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: cocktails

2001-05-04 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Simon Wistow ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 
 And they didn't eat as many waffles as we did.

ahhh waffles, a classic student food - what did you eat your waffles
with? i ate mine with mayo and chick sticks (fish finger like bits
processed chicken)

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Apocalypse Two

2001-05-04 Thread Struan Donald

* at 04/05 10:22 +0100 Dave Hodgkinson said:
 Struan Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  i kind of like - from a visual point of view.
 
 much more like APL... ;-)

i'd not know about that. seem to recall seeing an example of APL in a
book once and it looked very scary. or it might have been ADA. 

still, if damian gets his way we'll no doubt be able to have
modules/filters that mean we can still use - :) 

struan



RE: More revolting natives

2001-05-04 Thread Cross David - dcross

From: Piers Cawley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 4:07 PM

 They really don't learn do they?
 
 The thread beginning with 
 http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4666 is a 
 hoot. I particularly like the post where our hero says:
 
 No,but its true-- strict really does suck. I hate it. Its gay.
 Dont tell me ehat to do. And nobody wants your to be back, either.
 
 in response to one of Dave's posts.

Heh. We were discussing that on IRC a couple of days ago. Notice that when I
challenged him to back up his opinion logically he went very quiet -
although he _has_ been back to the board since then.

Oh, and you've just gotta love the mentality that sees 'gay' as an insult.
Gives a real feel for the kind of person we're dealing with :)

Dave...

-- 


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Re: More revolting natives

2001-05-04 Thread Dean

On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:17:25PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
 Oh, and you've just gotta love the mentality that sees 'gay' as an insult.
 Gives a real feel for the kind of person we're dealing with :)

Just to clarify is this the 13 year old?

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



RE: More revolting natives

2001-05-04 Thread Cross David - dcross

From: Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 4:30 PM

 On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:17:25PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
  Oh, and you've just gotta love the mentality that sees 'gay' as an
insult.
  Gives a real feel for the kind of person we're dealing with :)
 
 Just to clarify is this the 13 year old?

Well, the 13 year old now claims to be 20. But no, this is his friend bk who
kills people for a living in Hereford!

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
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If you have received this communication in error, please 
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Re: More revolting natives

2001-05-04 Thread Dean

On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:32:35PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
 Well, the 13 year old now claims to be 20. But no, this is his friend bk who
 kills people for a living in Hereford!

Um. I no longer want children.

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: cocktails

2001-05-04 Thread James Powell

On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 10:34:55AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 * Simon Wistow ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  
  And they didn't eat as many waffles as we did.
 
 ahhh waffles, a classic student food - what did you eat your waffles
 with? i ate mine with mayo and chick sticks (fish finger like bits
 processed chicken)

The chicken that is not fit for human consumption?

mm.

Gotta be Waffles with Heinz Beans  Sausages (although I draw the
line at the all day breakfast or full monty meals in a can).

jp



Re: More revolting natives

2001-05-04 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:47:43PM +0100, Dean wrote:
 On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:32:35PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
  Well, the 13 year old now claims to be 20. But no, this is his friend bk who
  kills people for a living in Hereford!
 
 Um. I no longer want children.

You *wanted* them?  :-)

-Dom



Re: More revolting natives

2001-05-04 Thread Leon Brocard

Alex Page sent the following bits through the ether:

 On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:54:05PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
  On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:47:43PM +0100, Dean wrote:
 
   Um. I no longer want children.
 
  You *wanted* them?  :-)
 
 Deep fried?

Tastes like chicken!

Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
Iterative Software..http://yapc.org/Europe/

... A Bugless Program is an Abstract Theoretical Concept



Re: Native Code Experts

2001-05-04 Thread Robert Price

At 05:07 PM 5/4/01 +0100, Dave Cross wrote:
Thought you might be interested in this post from our frind the Hereford
Killer. Someone posted some code that used for(;;) loops. And this was bk's
response:

[snipped excellent advice]

Remember, for loops are for JS, not perl. You cant use semicolons in perl,
unless theyre before a carriage return. 
end_quote

And this from someone who describes himself as a PERL Master.

Maybe we should send him the London pm review copy of the new Learning Perl
when it arrives. I'm sure he'll appreciate this goodwill jesture,
especially if a certain few take the trouble to autograph it for him.

Rob




Re: More revolting natives

2001-05-04 Thread Piers Cawley

Andrew Bowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 [1] If he weren't such a twit he'll compliment you on your ability with the
 English language once he realises you're not American! (As in the American
 lady who struck a conversation with my mother - after a few minutes the
 American lady said Gee. You come from Scotland. And you speak English so
 well!). ;-)

My wife's aunt married a GI. When she was introduced to some of his
relative she was complimented on how good her English was. Yes, I
learnt it on the boat coming over. And they believed her.

-- 
Piers Cawley
www.iterative-software.com




Re: Native Code Experts

2001-05-04 Thread Piers Cawley

Cross David - dcross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Thought you might be interested in this post from our frind the Hereford
 Killer. Someone posted some code that used for(;;) loops. And this was bk's
 response:
 
 begin_quote
 Erm, My eyes keep darting to your FOR loops. For is mainly used in
 javascript, and perl doesnt handle them, mainly because of the semicolons
 used to split the operations. Instead of for, use foreach, because thats
 close to the perl equivalent of for. I'm not sure exactly what that would
 translate to into perl, but if you want to do something in a foreach loop,
 it would look like 
 
 foreach $ArrayItemYouNeedToChange (@TheArray) { 
 #do this 
 } 
 
 Remember, for loops are for JS, not perl. You cant use semicolons in perl,
 unless theyre before a carriage return. 
 end_quote
 
 And this from someone who describes himself as a PERL Master.

I haven't laughed so much since Date::MMDDYY...

-- 
Piers Cawley
www.iterative-software.com




Re: Native Code Experts

2001-05-04 Thread Martin Ling

On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 05:30:02PM +0100, Robert Price wrote:
 
 Maybe we should send him the London pm review copy of the new Learning Perl
 when it arrives. I'm sure he'll appreciate this goodwill jesture,
 especially if a certain few take the trouble to autograph it for him.

And our masterful social engineering strategy for getting his address
is...?


Martin



Re: More revolting natives

2001-05-04 Thread Dean

On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:54:05PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 Um. I no longer want children.
 
 You *wanted* them?  :-)

Not really, guess I'm proof of Darwinism at work ;)

As an aside think of his parents sitting there become more and more filled
with dread and fear as they realise that one day he'll be picking out their
retirement homes...

Does the author of the book take an interest in the web group? I'd hope
she'd be on there correcting him.

Dean
I can see use.perl now, Thirteen year old boy terrorized by London PMer's
because Dave told them to :)
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Native Code Experts

2001-05-04 Thread Martin Ling

On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 05:33:16PM +0100, Roger Burton West wrote:
 
 On or about Fri, May 04, 2001 at 05:29:10PM +0100, Martin Ling typed:
 
 And our masterful social engineering strategy for getting his address
 is...?
 
 Tell him he's gay if he doesn't admit his address.

...say YOUR GAY and see if anyone nearby twigs...


Martin

-- 
-[ Martin J. Ling ]-[ http://www.nodezero.org.uk ]-



[OT] Anyone want a Defender?

2001-05-04 Thread David Cantrell

I've got bored with my Defender, so am selling it.  Anyone interested?

ObLondon.pm: defender beats watching buffy on the stupid-box any day of
the week.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system
   in the world which we decided to release incomplete just for a laugh



Re: [OT] Anyone want a Defender?

2001-05-04 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Fri, 04 May 2001, you wrote:
 I've got bored with my Defender, so am selling it.  Anyone interested?
 
 ObLondon.pm: defender beats watching buffy on the stupid-box any day of
 the week.

the '80's video arcade game? ... hmmm .. well, if it was Pheonix Firebird
I might have been tempted ;)

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said requires windows 95 or better
So I installed Linux!



Re: Apocalypse Two

2001-05-04 Thread Damian Conway

 
still, if damian gets his way we'll no doubt be able to have
modules/filters that mean we can still use - :) 

I *guarantee* it!

It will definitely be possible in Perl 6, because even with our primitive
earth technology we can do the reverse today:


###
# in line DotsForArrows.pm:

package DotsForArrows;
use Filter::Simple;
FILTER { s/\b\.(?=[a-z_\$({[])/-/gi };



###
# then in your code:

use DotsForArrows;

package MyClass;

sub new { bless [$_[1], 1..10], $_[0] }
sub next { my ($self) = @_; return next is:  . shift(@$self) . \n }

package main;

my ($str1, $str2) = (a, z);
my $obj = MyClass.new($str1 . $str2);

print $obj.next() for 1..10;

print $obj.[0] . \n;

my $next = 'next';
print $obj.$next;

#etc.


I suppose you'll want me to put that on the CPAN now. ;-)

Damian





Re: Apocalypse Two

2001-05-04 Thread Simon Cozens

On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 08:14:47PM +1000, Damian Conway wrote:
   package DotsForArrows;
   use Filter::Simple;
   FILTER { s/\b\.(?=[a-z_\$({[])/-/gi };

That's BORING. Obviously the right way to do it is to allow lvalue
overloaded operators, and overload . for everything.

-- 
The man who sees, on New Year's day, Mount Fuji, a hawk, and an eggplant
is forever blessed.
-- Old Japanese proverb



Re: More revolting natives

2001-05-04 Thread Dave Cross

At 17:56 04/05/2001, Dean wrote:

Does the author of the book take an interest in the web group? I'd hope
she'd be on there correcting him.

She's around occasionally. She's a bit busy at the moment - getting the 
next edition finished before her baby is born later this month.

Dave...



-- 
http://www.dave.org.uk  SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

plugData Munging with Perl http://www.manning.com/cross//plug




Re: [OT] Anyone want a Defender?

2001-05-04 Thread Greg McCarroll

* David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 11:10:41PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 
  I'd be tempted Dave, but as I got the high scores on the machine
  on my first go at it in a few years I don't really see the 
  challenge anymore ;-)
 
 Thanks for reminding me to blank the NVRAM :-)
 

You can't win Dave. If you wipe my scores. They will become 
higher than you can imagine.


-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Apocalypse Two

2001-05-04 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On Fri, 4 May 2001, Robin Szemeti wrote:

 On Fri, 04 May 2001, you wrote:

  The man who sees, on New Year's day, Mount Fuji, a hawk, and an eggplant
  is forever blessed.
  -- Old Japanese proverb

 The man who sees, on New Year's day, Mount Fuji, a hawk, and an eggplant
 is extremely drunk.
   -- Old Yorkshire proverb


The man who sees, on New Year's Day, Mount Fuji, a hawk, and an eggplant
is :

   A) In need of a short stint in the Betty Ford clinic

   B) someone who needs to book back into The Priory PDQ

   C) someone who has been rifling in my stash box ...

BTW that is Aubergine not Egg plant :)

/J\




Re: Apocalypse Two

2001-05-04 Thread Leon Brocard

Damian Conway sent the following bits through the ether:

 I suppose you'll want me to put that on the CPAN now. ;-)

Yes. Didn't we sponsor you for this ;-)

Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
Iterative Software..http://yapc.org/Europe/

... Remember when we said there was no future? Well, this is it