Re: Upcoming technical meeting

2001-06-09 Thread Redvers Davies

 We'll start at about 7pm and people will be practiving TPC and YAPC::E 
 talks.

I'll be there...  btw, has anyone heard back from the YAPC::Europe peeps
about which papers have been accepted?... or have any idea when the
list will be published. [1]

Red




Re: [Possible Job] Perl, Linux

2001-06-09 Thread Dave Hodgkinson

Piers Cawley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 I don't know about you, but I'm *definitely* fat.

Big boned.

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
   



Re: Religion (was Re: M$ SQueaLServer)

2001-06-09 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Philip Newton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 Greg McCarroll wrote on Freitag, 8. Juni 2001 11:11
And some pieces of software just wont be able to be plugged
in - why can't i run Samba on Windows?
 
 Why would you want to?

* in a heterogeneous network i may want to standardise on a single SMB
  implementation so that logs, config, etc. are in the same format
* SAMBA offers functionality beyond that of the windows implementation,
  for instance i remember noting that you could link a shared ``printer''
  definition to an executable, i added a little bit of hacking, a poor 
  ps2html convertor and a webserver and i had a nice little document 
  storage/archiving system, that people could simply print to
* bugs/security holes may not be solved as quickly in MS's version
* i may be an open source zealot and want to know what is running on
  my machine down to each line of code (shame about the rest of the
  OS on this point)
* its my computer and i should be able to run what software/services
  i want and not be locked in

 AFAIK Samba implements the SMB protocol, which is the
 native resource (file, printer, ...) sharing protocol of Windows. So if you
 have Windows, you've already got an SMB client and server running.

for the same reasons people install apache on windows when they already have 
personal web server running ;-)

 Sounds a bit like How can I port MKS's korn shell to Unix? Is it
 possible?. Well, maybe the analogy is not so hot, but it's the best I can
 think of.

but if you have the source and some time you can, and you may do it for similar 
reasons to the ones i stated above

Greg

-- 
Greg McCarrollhttp://217.34.97.146/~gem/



Re: [Possible Job] Perl, Linux

2001-06-09 Thread Piers Cawley

Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Piers Cawley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  I don't know about you, but I'm *definitely* fat.
 
 Big boned.

Nope.

-- 
Piers Cawley
www.iterative-software.com




Re: London.pm posting stats

2001-06-09 Thread Greg McCarroll

* David H. Adler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 03:13:19PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
  
  here is the results from a partial mbox of ny.pm messages, it is not
  that complete an mbox, but it does indicate that we are simply not
  doing or best to take over NY.pm
 
 You know, I've been meaning to ask...
 
 Why in the world would you *want* to take over NY.pm???
 

Because you've lost your way, there was a time that no one would ever
have to ask questions such as ...

Hmmm, is talking about beer off-topic or on-topic here?
- John Kominetz, 8/6/2001

Where did you go wrong? It used to be that London.pm could regard
NY.pm as its sister group (i would say brother, but you could never
handle your booze) shining brightly in the dark sky of Perl Monger
groups that talked about Perl. Whats next, NY.pm the educational 
cooperative? *shudder*

;-)


-- 
Greg McCarrollhttp://217.34.97.146/~gem/



Re: Upcoming technical meeting

2001-06-09 Thread Nicholas Clark

On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 07:23:32AM +, Redvers Davies wrote:
 I'll be there...  btw, has anyone heard back from the YAPC::Europe peeps
 about which papers have been accepted?... or have any idea when the
 list will be published. [1]

I had an e-mail from Ann Barcomb yesterday saying that my lightning talk
had been accepted. I don't know anything further

Nicholas Clark



Re: Upcoming technical meeting

2001-06-09 Thread Leon Brocard

Redvers Davies sent the following bits through the ether:

 I'll be there...  btw, has anyone heard back from the YAPC::Europe peeps
 about which papers have been accepted?... or have any idea when the
 list will be published. [1]

Speakers will be told Real Soon Now. Registration might happen pretty
soon too. Speakers don't need to register.

Leon

[1] no, I have no idea why you missed the footnote either
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
Iterative Software...http://www.iterative-software.com/

... Apple (c) 6024 b.c., Adam  Eve



Perl CGI For The World Wide Web

2001-06-09 Thread Dave Cross

Remember the discussion some months ago about what a horrible book this
was?

Well, I've been exchanging emails with the author since slagging her off
big-time on Amazon. Somehow I've managed to make her thing that my input
is useful and I've just received a copy of the second edition of the book.

* Every example uses /usr/bin/perl -wT

* Every example uses strict (and, therefore, my)

* Every example used CGI::param

I consider this a massive improvement.

Dave...

p.s Oh, and the acknowledgements page lists Dave Cross, who not only pointed
out the problems, but also helped me solve them :)




Re: Perl CGI For The World Wide Web

2001-06-09 Thread Dave Hodgkinson

Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Remember the discussion some months ago about what a horrible book this
 was?
 
 Well, I've been exchanging emails with the author since slagging her off
 big-time on Amazon. Somehow I've managed to make her thing that my input
 is useful and I've just received a copy of the second edition of the book.

So how are the kiddiez taking it?

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
   



Re: Perl CGI For The World Wide Web

2001-06-09 Thread Dave Cross

On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 12:10:08PM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  Remember the discussion some months ago about what a horrible book this
  was?
  
  Well, I've been exchanging emails with the author since slagging her off
  big-time on Amazon. Somehow I've managed to make her thing that my input
  is useful and I've just received a copy of the second edition of the book.
 
 So how are the kiddiez taking it?

No response so far. I'll keep you posted :)

Dave...




Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

2001-06-09 Thread Simon Cozens

On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 01:27:08PM +0100, Jonathan Stowe wrote:
 As a public service I would exhort all of you to go to this site and then
 complain when it tells you that you are using an 'Unsupported Browser'
 (which I guess will be more than half of you :)

Well done. The Reg picked this up ... last month.

-- 
When your hammer is C++, everything begins to look like a thumb. 
-- Steve Haflich, comp.lang.c++



Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

2001-06-09 Thread Robert Shiels

From: Jonathan Stowe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: www.gateway.gov.uk


 As a public service I would exhort all of you to go to this site and then
 complain when it tells you that you are using an 'Unsupported Browser'
 (which I guess will be more than half of you :)

I agree that this is pants. I don't see why I need cookies, javascript and
Java enabled. But I don't fully understand digital certificates.

Assume for a moment that I'm using lynx on Linux, and I want to send the
government my tax return securely. What are the security implications, can
it actually be done. I don't want to go off half-cocked and complain about
something when I don't fully understand why the alternative is better.

Could someone explain it to me, and give me an address to send my complaint
to, and I'll definitely do it.

/Robert





Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

2001-06-09 Thread David Cantrell

On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 01:54:01PM +0100, Robert Shiels wrote:

 From: Jonathan Stowe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  As a public service I would exhort all of you to go to this site and then
  complain when it tells you that you are using an 'Unsupported Browser'
  (which I guess will be more than half of you :)

 I agree that this is pants. I don't see why I need cookies, javascript and
 Java enabled. But I don't fully understand digital certificates.
 
 Assume for a moment that I'm using lynx on Linux, and I want to send the
 government my tax return securely. What are the security implications, can
 it actually be done. I don't want to go off half-cocked and complain about
 something when I don't fully understand why the alternative is better.

They also don't let you use Netscape on Linux, even with 128-bit encryption
and all the other security goodies.  That is just as secure as - if not
better than - IE on Windows.

So yes, the only reason for not allowing me to use it is incompetence on
the part of whichever civil 'servants' were in charge of implementing it.

This incompetence is further manifested in their choice of platform.
even if I *could* use it, I wouldn't use it anyway, as I do not have
sufficient confidence in the integrity of the server for such important
information as my (eg) medical and tax data.

 Could someone explain it to me, and give me an address to send my complaint
 to, and I'll definitely do it.

http://www.stand.org.uk should have the Fax My MP thing back soon.  I have
a long list of things to bother mine about, none of which he bothered
to answer when I asked him during the election campaign.  No surprise that
I didn't vote for the little shit then.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Good advice is always certain to be ignored,
  but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie



Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

2001-06-09 Thread Simon Cozens

On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 02:06:24PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
 So yes, the only reason for not allowing me to use it is incompetence on
 the part of whichever civil 'servants' were in charge of implementing it.

And nothing to do with the deal struck between Microsoft and the government.
No.

-- 
You want to read that stuff, fine. You want to create a network for such 
things, fine. You want to explore the theoretical boundaries of free speech, 
fine. But when it starts impacting *people* trying to *communicate*, then 
that is where I draw the line. - Russ Allbery, http://www.slacker.com/rant.html



Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

2001-06-09 Thread David Cantrell

On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 02:09:23PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 02:06:24PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
  So yes, the only reason for not allowing me to use it is incompetence on
  the part of whichever civil 'servants' were in charge of implementing it.
 
 And nothing to do with the deal struck between Microsoft and the government.
 No.

I tend not to pay much attention to conspiracy theories.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Good advice is always certain to be ignored,
  but that's no reason not to give it-- Agatha Christie



Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

2001-06-09 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Sat, 09 Jun 2001, Robert Shiels wrote:
 From: Jonathan Stowe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: www.gateway.gov.uk
 
 
  As a public service I would exhort all of you to go to this site and then
  complain when it tells you that you are using an 'Unsupported Browser'
  (which I guess will be more than half of you :)
 
 I agree that this is pants. I don't see why I need cookies, javascript and
 Java enabled. But I don't fully understand digital certificates.
 
 Assume for a moment that I'm using lynx on Linux, and I want to send the
 government my tax return securely. What are the security implications, can
 it actually be done. 

yes .. its just SSL .. the digital certificate is just to identify who
you are .. like a digital signature.  so the SSL layer provides the
transport security .. the digital certificate ( that you get from an
issuing authority ) proves who you are ( maybe ).

 I don't want to go off half-cocked and complain about
 something when I don't fully understand why the alternative is better.

the new site is a fine example of something that was dreamt up by
webdesigneers with no concept of 'cross platform coding' or standards
compliance. its suppose to ditribute information in a clear and concise
way .. not piss about with animated sliding panles and multilayer
flirtations with art design .. you can do good and attrctive designs in
simple HTML, you don;t need Java to getthe message across.

 Could someone explain it to me, and give me an address to send my complaint
 to, and I'll definitely do it.

well .. consider this.

the old ( apache / Linux ) driven site (www.open.gov.uk IIRC ) was a
testament to good web design. graphics light and W3C html compliant AND
it met the W3C accessibility guidelines .. 

the new site is a stinking pile of shit.  all the backgrounds are fixed
colour, the text fixed colour and the text size is pixed in pixels ..
what use is that to anyone with colour blindness/poor vision.

try feeding any single page of the new shite ( oops type put 'shite'
instead of site .. )  through validator @ w3c and laugh at the error
output ... kilobytes of it.

and if it decides it doesn;t like your browser it won;t even let you in!
.. never mind that it might not display correctly .. it simply wont let
you in full stop. pile of crap.

this is supposed to be a government info site .. not some web designers
multimedia experience .. the first priority should be making the
information available THEN making it animated etc .. its feck all use if
I cant actually even get onto the site to use it. 

I complained  to the UK Online helpdesk .. they deny all responsiblity
for the thing .. but can give you helpdesk contacts for the 3 government
agencies contained within the 'government gateway' site .. of course they
deny all responsiblity for it as well...

-- 
Robin Szemeti   

Redpoint Consulting Limited
Real Solutions For A Virtual World 



Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

2001-06-09 Thread Simon Cozens

On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 02:26:40PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
 I tend not to pay much attention to conspiracy theories.

Me neither.
http://linuxtoday.com/imgs/microsoft/gateway-microsoft-rationale-statement.pdf

-- 
This process can check if this value is zero, and if it is, it does
something child-like.
-- Forbes Burkowski, CS 454, University of Washington



Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

2001-06-09 Thread Nicholas Clark

On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 02:10:38PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 I complained  to the UK Online helpdesk .. they deny all responsiblity
 for the thing .. but can give you helpdesk contacts for the 3 government
 agencies contained within the 'government gateway' site .. of course they
 deny all responsiblity for it as well...

Are these e-mail addresses? If so, does it make it possible to forward all
4 denials in 1 message To: all four and ask for one joined up government
answer?

Nicholas Clark




Re: Pubs - a serious investigation

2001-06-09 Thread Alex Page

On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 05:46:33PM +0100, Simon Wistow wrote:

 o The Doggetts Coat and Arms (by the river)

It has to be said, Doggetts is a fine, fine pub. Plenty of room,
not-too-loud music, nice beer... and fairly convenient for most people.

Alex
-- 
Four pints of milk, a turkey baster and some plastic
 tubing, that's all you need.
http://www.cpio.org/~grimoire
http://www.livejournal.com/users/diffrentcolours



Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

2001-06-09 Thread Simon Cozens

On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 02:59:48PM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote:
 Are these e-mail addresses? If so, does it make it possible to forward all
 4 denials in 1 message To: all four and ask for one joined up government
 answer?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/19340.html says the man to talk to
is [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I've just asked him whether he thinks restricting access to IE and NS
only (hence cutting off speech browsers for the blind) constitutes
discrimination against the disabled. :)

-- 
Britain has football hooligans, Germany has neo-Nazis, and France has farmers. 
-The Times



Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

2001-06-09 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Sat, 09 Jun 2001, Nicholas Clark wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 02:10:38PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
  I complained  to the UK Online helpdesk .. they deny all responsiblity
  for the thing .. but can give you helpdesk contacts for the 3 government
  agencies contained within the 'government gateway' site .. of course they
  deny all responsiblity for it as well...
 
 Are these e-mail addresses? If so, does it make it possible to forward all
 4 denials in 1 message To: all four and ask for one joined up government
 answer?

dunno .. try if you like ...

###

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

The Government Gateway is a Government website but is an external site to UKonline. 
It has been produced by a different department and therefore any
technical difficulties in accessing the site should be directed at their
helpdesk who will be able to provide an answer to your enquiry..

There are currently three services available on the Government Gateway.
Each of the Government departments handling online services has its own
Help Desk. These are the only contact details on the Government Gateway
web site..
The numbers of these are listed below. Choose the number for one of the
services you are enrolled for (or intending to enrol for).

If you are an individual and having problems registering for Electronic VAT
return 
Phone 01702 367930. 

If you are a farmer and having problems registering for MAFF IACS Area Aid
Application 
Phone 0845 6013482 
E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

If you are an organisation and having problems registering for PAYE End of
Year Returns for Employers and Agents 
Phone 0845 6055999 or 
E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]




-- 
Robin Szemeti   

Redpoint Consulting Limited
Real Solutions For A Virtual World 



Conway's academic paper generator

2001-06-09 Thread Dave Hodgkinson


Anyone got a link to this?

Ta,

Dave



Re: [Possible Job] Perl, Linux

2001-06-09 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 09:56:20AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote:
 Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  Piers Cawley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
   I don't know about you, but I'm *definitely* fat.
  
  Big boned.
 
 Nope.

BBH, Big Beautiful Hacker?

Paul

-- 
Abandon normal instruments



Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

2001-06-09 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Simon Cozens wrote:

 On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 02:59:48PM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote:
  Are these e-mail addresses? If so, does it make it possible to forward all
  4 denials in 1 message To: all four and ask for one joined up government
  answer?

 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/19340.html says the man to talk to
 is [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I've just asked him whether he thinks restricting access to IE and NS
 only (hence cutting off speech browsers for the blind) constitutes
 discrimination against the disabled. :)


Precisely.  And using Java et al is a discrimination against the mobility
impaired.

/J\




Re: London.pm posting stats

2001-06-09 Thread David H. Adler

On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 10:03:29AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 * David H. Adler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  
  You know, I've been meaning to ask...
  
  Why in the world would you *want* to take over NY.pm???
  
 
 Because you've lost your way, there was a time that no one would ever
 have to ask questions such as ...
 
   Hmmm, is talking about beer off-topic or on-topic here?
   - John Kominetz, 8/6/2001

He's new.  :-)

 Where did you go wrong? It used to be that London.pm could regard
 NY.pm as its sister group (i would say brother, but you could never
 handle your booze) shining brightly in the dark sky of Perl Monger
 groups that talked about Perl. Whats next, NY.pm the educational 
 cooperative? *shudder*

Well, that certainly won't happen while *I'm* in charge.  I'm *much* too
lazy to organize something like that...

:-)
-- 
David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
_Day of Wrath_ is probably Dreyer's most popular film, which already
indicates something of the problems it poses.
- David Bordwell, The Films of Carl-Theodor Dreyer



Re: London.pm posting stats

2001-06-09 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On Fri, 8 Jun 2001, Philip Newton wrote:

 Paul Makepeace wrote on Donnerstag, 7. Juni 2001 13:27:
Greg McCarroll: 1546
 **
Dave Cross:  762 
Jonathan Stowe:  729 ***
 Robin Szemeti:  586 **
David Cantrell:  563 **
Paul Makepeace:  504 
  Leon Brocard:  459 **
  Piers Cawley:  378 
David H. Adler:  365 ***
  Simon Wistow:  355 ***
 Philip Newton:  331 **

 Well, I just barely missed being in the Top 10... I didn't think I wrote
 *that* much. Horrors.


Well based on another totally unscientific sample you did :)

Greg McCarroll (426) **
Dave Cross (247) 
Robin Szemeti  (237) ***
David Cantrell (235) ***
Paul Makepeace (197) ***
Jonathan Stowe (192) ***
Dave Hodgkinson(170) *
Philip Newton  (162) 
Piers Cawley   (148) **
Dominic Mitchell   (134) *

/J\




Re: London.pm posting stats

2001-06-09 Thread Dave Hodgkinson

Jonathan Stowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Well based on another totally unscientific sample you did :)

And how about a signal/noise bias? ;-)

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
   



Re: London.pm posting stats

2001-06-09 Thread Simon Cozens

On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 09:10:53PM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
 And how about a signal/noise bias? ;-)

The noise *is* signal.

-- 
I cannot and will not cut my conscience to fit this year's fashions.
-- Lillian Hellman



Re: London.pm posting stats

2001-06-09 Thread Richard Clamp

On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 09:57:52PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 09:10:53PM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
  And how about a signal/noise bias? ;-)
 
 The noise *is* signal.

I'll have what he's drinking.

-- 
Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: London.pm posting stats

2001-06-09 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 09:57:52PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 09:10:53PM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
  And how about a signal/noise bias? ;-)
 
 The noise *is* signal.

It's signal, Jim, but not as we know it.

Paul

-- 
Destroy nothing; Destroy the most important thing