Re: Templating Solutions

2001-06-18 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 06:30:24PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
 Simon Wilcox wrote:
  I avoided HTML::Embperl, HTML::Mason  Apache::ASP because they all
  embed perl into the template which is a Bad Thing (tm).
 Why is that so evil?
 I'm willing to be enlightened here.

Mainly maintainability. In the same way as it's evil to mix two types of
language - Perl and SQL, although people seem to be a lot more prepared
to do this :-(

The point is that if you are embedding perl, there are too many places
that things can be changed. It is possible to write embedded perl templates
well, but a lot more difficult than if they are separated out.

MBM

-- 
Matthew Byng-Maddick [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://colondot.net/



Re: e-smith

2001-06-18 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 04:29:31PM +0100, Neil Ford wrote:
 Once I have a spare box, I'll probably give e-smith a looksie, just to see
 if it can teach me anything.

Well, I can tell you now, from experience that the blackcat power cycler
works wonders, because I remembered (too late) that ipfw's default behaviour
is deny ip from any to any. So something that does the firewalling can
definitely be a good idea. :-)

MBM

-- 
Matthew Byng-Maddick [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://colondot.net/



Re: Templating Solutions

2001-06-18 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 07:54:36PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
 On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 04:46:25PM +0100, Leo Lapworth wrote:
  I'd also like to mention HTML::Mason - Euuu, No, no and thrice no!
  (ok, has some nice 'bits' but NO - thou shalt not put thy
  HTML and thy Perl in the same file).
 It is NOT POSSIBLE to completely divorce presentation/application.
 So you end up with all sorts of languages made up to be mixed in with
 the presentation - like PHP and the mini-language of TT.  Why are
 those OK (I'm thinking specifically of TT - we all know PHP sucks for
 other reasons) but plain ol' perl isn't?

Ohmigod, I'm agreeing with Cantrell on something!!

Despite having written an embedded perl templating system, I'm now very
much in favour of one where the tags are just delimiters as far as possible.
Thus I think things like HTML::Template are actually better than TT2,
precisely because the toy language in TT2 is just as bad as embedding code.

See my point about SQL, as it's related to this.

MBM

-- 
Matthew Byng-Maddick [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://colondot.net/



Re: CMS frameworks

2001-06-16 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Sat, Jun 16, 2001 at 12:09:53PM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
 Steve Mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
   Any other offers?
  http://scoop.kuro5hin.org/
 Why do all these things have to look like Slashdot? It that now the
 ONLY metaphor for these things. I know Nielsen would approve of the
 familiarity part but...

...Nielsen's a fuckwit?

It is interesting that this is the conclusion that we came to at work while
trying to analyse web forums...
... we weren't impressed.

MBM




Re: Training anyone ?

2001-06-13 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 04:09:16PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:
 On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Dave Thorn wrote:
  On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 03:59:54PM +0100, Simon Wistow wrote:
   Dave Thorn wrote:
that settles it, yes.  everything's for sale, even pride.
   London Pride?
  obviously.  they don't just give it away...
 Shame.
 Beer good.

It's a real pity, then, that most places don't have the first clue how to
keep London Pride, and it often tastes a lot worse than it can at its best.

MBM




Re: tape changes

2001-06-05 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 10:31:37AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
[hosting providers]
 so thats another big vote for Nildram then ..
[snip]
 hmm .. we're trying to justify a move to 5gb a month .. at which point
 Nildram sounds like a cheaper option. ... is Aylesbury nice?

An alternative: http://www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk/colo.html

MBM




Re: tape changes

2001-06-05 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 01:10:47PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 On Tue, 05 Jun 2001, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
  On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 10:31:37AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
  [hosting providers]
   so thats another big vote for Nildram then ..
  [snip]
   hmm .. we're trying to justify a move to 5gb a month .. at which point
   Nildram sounds like a cheaper option. ... is Aylesbury nice?
  An alternative: http://www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk/colo.html
 looks good .. apart from the pounds per U ... 

Fair enough. I think that it's actually pretty reasonable when all's said
and done, given the location etc. They are very clued up, and the point of
the company is more to provide the best service they can (the people who
run it have other day jobs).

MBM




Re: bad greg

2001-05-31 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 05:55:39PM +0100, Neil Ford wrote:
 On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 08:27:19AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
  i'm sorry about asking this, but i've purged too many old archives
  of london.pm to find this one - someone one once mentioned a domain
  name registry with a neat web based management system for handling
  the dns wizardry afterwards - could they please remind me of the
  url?
 www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk
 FreeBSD users, Debian committers, OpenSRS registry (can do .co.uk's too),
  ^
are they??

 recommended to me by Mr Couzens, at least one other person on this list
 co-los with them, they have clue, all-round nice guys.

Wonder who that would be then. :)

MBM




Re: bad greg

2001-05-31 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 11:07:15PM +0100, Neil Ford wrote:
 On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 11:09:28PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
  On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 05:55:39PM +0100, Neil Ford wrote:
   Mr Couzens
  Die, alien slime!
 My apologies was typed in a hurry on a tube train and I didn't double
 check before it got sent when I got home.
 100 x I must check the spelling of people's surnames before hitting send

I have to say that I'm glad you didn't try to reproduce mine. :)

MBM




Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 03:19:21AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 Paul, who will probably end up using FreeBSD since its hardware RAID
 (HPT370) and video (Matrox G450 dual) is apparently better...

vinum in mirror mode is not supposed to be that good (apparently it does
no integrity checking of the mirror). However, I am not an authoritative
source on this.

MBM




Re: bad greg

2001-05-30 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 08:38:17AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 On Wed, 30 May 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
  i'm sorry about asking this, but i've purged too many old archives
  of london.pm to find this one - someone one once mentioned a domain
  name registry with a neat web based management system for handling
  the dns wizardry afterwards - could they please remind me of the
  url?
 www.register.com

ObPedant: he asked for a URL, so where's the protocol and path parts? :)

https://www.joker.com/ ?

Who appear to have clue.

MBM




Re: Email::Valid

2001-05-30 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 11:02:11AM -0400, Andy Williams wrote:
 Has any one used this module at all?
 I just tried it and got some wierd results!!!
 It though the following where VALID:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 tricad@dial,pipex.com
 [EMAIL PROTECTED],co.uk
 enquiries@peter-il;land.co.uk
 martyn@the,coot.freeserveco.uk
 shirleyhemes@.uk.com
 [EMAIL PROTECTED],co.uk
 3jsolution@.21.com
 paula,[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ian,[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

You are correct in that these shouls all be invalid.

 and that this was INVALID:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

It is.

RFC822 S6.1
| local-part  =  word *(. word) ; uninterpreted
| ; case-preserved

and S3.3(reordered) for the definitions of word
| word=  atom / quoted-string
|
| atom=  1*any CHAR except specials, SPACE and CTLs
|
| quoted-string =  *(qtext/quoted-pair) ; Regular qtext or
| ;   quoted chars.
|
| qtext   =  any CHAR excepting , ; = may be folded
| \  CR, and including
| linear-white-space
|
| specials=  ( / ) /  /  / @  ; Must be in quoted-
| /  , / ; / : / \ /   ;  string, to use
| /  . / [ / ]  ;  within a word.
|
| CTL =  any ASCII control   ; (  0- 37,  0.- 31.)
| character and DEL  ; (177, 127.)
|
| SPACE   =  ASCII SP, space; ( 40,  32.)
|
| CR  =  ASCII CR, carriage return  ; ( 15,  13.)
|
| CHAR=  any ASCII character; (  0-177,  0.-127.)
|
| LWSP-char   =  SPACE / HTAB ; semantics = SPACE
|
| linear-white-space =  1*([CRLF] LWSP-char)  ; semantics = SPACE
| ; CRLF = folding
| HTAB=  ASCII HT, horizontal-tab   ; ( 11,   9.)
|
|  =  ASCII quote mark   ; ( 42,  34.)

 I've tried [EMAIL PROTECTED] and it works fine

Be conservative in what you send and liberal in what you accept

 I've tried the one's above that claim to be VALID and they all fail.

They are all wrong.

MBM




Re: Email::Valid

2001-05-30 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 11:49:06AM -0400, Andy Williams wrote:
 On Wed, 30 May 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
  * Andy Williams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
   So I guess [EMAIL PROTECTED] is invalid even though it works wierd!
  its not the email address thats broken, its your SMTP server ;-)
 Could be right it's sendmail :(

Exim allows it too, surprisingly. I don't know about qm**l or postfix.

of course, andyw.@hillway.com is actually valid. :)

MBM




Re: Email::Valid

2001-05-30 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 11:56:56AM -0400, Andy Williams wrote:
 On Wed, 30 May 2001, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
 snip
  You are correct in that these shouls all be invalid.
 Great.
   and that this was INVALID:
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  It is.
 Damn
 another snip
 Thanks for the RFC... I think!

:)

  Be conservative in what you send and liberal in what you accept
 I will...

Sorry, that wasn't to you, so much as why the mailer accepts it. It is
something occasionally seen, mostly the people I've seen doing it are
spammers, and should therefore die anyway.

A quick test shows that SAUCE doesn't like it, although I'm going to
have to file a bug report against SAUCE as it doesn't deal properly
with quoting, it accepts the quoted version, though. :)

MBM




Re: Email::Valid

2001-05-30 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 05:14:15PM +0100, Matthew Robinson wrote:
[IsValidAddress sub, which was built from the RFC822 grammar...]

Unfortunately, a fair few mailers don't allow IP literals as valid
domain-parts anymore, due to abuse.

MBM




Re: Grammar - Class creation

2001-05-29 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 02:27:40AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 Anyway, PDF is easier re: packing/endianness since it's a text format!
 The only time you get binary data is for unencoded streams (which they advise
 against, although it's permitted, for example PDFlib generates it)
 like a  /Filter /FlateDecode streamzlib-deflated-dataendstream 

Not quite, it's a human-readable binary format. All the indexes rely on
offsets in the file, and the various fun with the newline conventions
mean that in my book, it's a binary format, you can't just go along and
edit it with a text editor, because it won't work anymore. Sure, the only
bits that are non-*ASCII* are the streams, but even so...

MBM




Re: Beer fest beckons

2001-05-25 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 11:00:40PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
 On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 03:28:49PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:
  So I get a call on my mobile in the middle of the beer fest from a
  potential collaborator telling me he can't send me the promised
  documentation due to the fact my inbox has exploded spectacularly
  and exceeded my meagre disk quota.  Given that I'm far too busy drinking
  ale to go and faff around wth the university computing service, I shall
  temporarily unsubscribe.
 THere is the option of cadging a shell account off of someone, with 
 no fascist disk quota ...

She has (at least) one of those, it just has a fascist MRA. :)

MBM




Re: pc components

2001-05-18 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 02:54:41PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
 From: Simon Wistow [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 11:04 AM
  Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
   He was touring with Norman Lovett, who wasn't nearly as good.
  I found Norman Lovett really funny. Managed to keep the whole audience
  laughing without actually saying anything for a few minutes and thena
  few minutes more just by saying what?

After Chris Barrie, he wasn't as good. He was, however, a lot better than
Craig Charles (who I saw a different time).

He just seemed to be a bit depressed about being old. :/

 (Norman Lovett)++

If you say so. :)

 I've got a recording of Lovett telling a joke about my school.
 I went to a comprehensive school in Clacton-on-Sea[1].
  (pause)
  I left that school with one O Level.
  (longer pause)
  But they caught up with me and made me give it back.

:) I think the pauses are his strong point. And this kind of joke is
actually funny when he does it. But he's a bit of a one-trick wonder
IYSWIM.

 [1] I have no reason to believe that Norman Lovett actually _did_ go to my
 school[2].
 [2] Sade did tho'. She was a couple of years older than me. Everyone hated
 ^^^
 her because she was a stuck-up bitch. I still can't listen to her music.

Are you older than her now? :)

MBM (feeling silly on a friday afternoon. :)




Re: Shoot out

2001-05-17 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Thu, May 17, 2001 at 03:20:08PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 I still remember an article about C++ templating being a turing complete
 language in it's own right or something weird.  This isn't it, but is
 entertaining anyway:
 http://www.annexia.org/freeware/cpptemplates/

And if you don't want to do things in C++:

http://www.apache.org/~fanf/list.h

:) The guy is a nutcase. Oh well, he's only won one IOCCC. :)

MBM




Re: Caller ID (was Re: Enough!)

2001-05-16 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 16 May 2001, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 10:59:07AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
  I do keep intending to do something cute with my ISDN adapter and log the
  stuff coming out of the D channel and see whats in there ... but time has
  prevented it etc.
 I'd be interested to hear how you get on... I was under the impression
 that the D channel was an always on 16k-thing.  It'd be interesting to
 see what gets sent down there normally...

CLI / Destination number that kind of thing. Signalling information
basically.

MBM

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RE: BOFHs requiring license

2001-05-14 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Mon, 14 May 2001, Robert Thompson wrote:
 If we're not careful we'll end up in the situation where the TB has such a
 strong powerbase that he'll be able to push through pretty much anything he
 wants, riding roughshod over the the views/opinions etc of those who elected
 him in the first place. Once it gets to that stage it's effectively a
 dictatorship.

Umm.. why the implication that this *hasn't* happened yet?

MBM

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 -- Larry Wall




Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

2001-05-14 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Mon, 14 May 2001, Roger Burton West wrote:
 On or about Mon, May 14, 2001 at 11:04:52AM +0100, Matthew Jones typed:
  When have they ever been asked?
 During elections. Like I say, in 1997, the UK voted in a party that was (I
 reckon) seen as the guardian of the public services, the party that is
 traditionally associated
 In 1997 the UK voted against the Conservatives. The policies being offered
 by the parties were close to identical.

This isn't true. The policies being offered were different. However, the
Labour government then decided - having been elected with quite such a
large victory - that it could do what it wanted, so it changed all the
policies to the tory ones...

MBM

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 -- Larry Wall




Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

2001-05-14 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Mon, 14 May 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
 On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:11:13PM +, Steve Mynott wrote:
  Well one advantage of BP or Shell is if you don't like either company
  then you can simply choose not to purchase their products.
 So how, pray, do I opt out of the international oil companies' cartel?

use the tube and electric trains? Most power stations aren't oil fired
AFAIK.

MBM

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 -- Larry Wall




Re: putting escape characters in files

2001-05-11 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Fri, 11 May 2001, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 11:41:20AM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
  Dominic Mitchell wrote:
   assuming you can get into a bourne shell, you can
   still do things like write cat(1) in sh, as well.
  This is not going to help you pause output.
   Although it'd be hard to control without ^S and ^Q,
  ...which was what the original post was all about.
 No, you'd need the maths operators that came with later shells, so you
 could work out lines.  Dammit, I'm going to have to write shmore now.
 #!/bin/sh
 lineno=1
 while read line
 do
   echo $line
   lineno=$((lineno+1))
   if [ $(($lineno % 24)) = 0 ] ; then
   echo -n  -- more -- 
   read ans /dev/tty
   test $ans = q  exit 0
   fi
 done

That breaks if the line is longer than the width of your screen.

MBM

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Re: (OT) constrained walk

2001-05-11 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Fri, 11 May 2001, Philip Newton wrote:
 Paul Mison wrote:
  I see you managed to subscribe anyway; I ph34r y0ur l33t 5M7P sk1llz.
 Thanks. They do come in handy quite often. (For example, when verifying an
 open relay or seeing whether it anonymises or not.)
 I remember the person who taught me SMTP; I'm grateful to him. (Though I
 suppose I could have taught myself from the RFC without too much pain; after
 all, that's how I learned to speak POP3.)

I don't see what's so difficult about learning from the RFC. :)

However, the number of people (Bloated Goats, Sexchange) who manage to get
it wrong still surprises me. And the spamware that carries on blindly even
though it gets errors

MBM

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ordinance under which you can be booked.  -- Robert D. Sprecht, Rand Corp.




Re: (OT) constrained walk

2001-05-11 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Fri, 11 May 2001, Chris Heathcote wrote:
 on 11/5/01 4:35 pm, Paul Mison wrote:
  This time, the constraint is the route; we'll be trying to walk around
  the Circle line, either trying to follow it as closely as possible or
  just walking between the stations. (We're deciding that on crisps, when
  it works.)
 Has anyone got a proper lundun map with tube lines indicated... that would
 be just chops.

There are machines in the tube that sell them.

MBM

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ordinance under which you can be booked.  -- Robert D. Sprecht, Rand Corp.




Re: TBA?

2001-05-10 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Thu, 10 May 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 is a venue decided on for tonights meeting, or is it still TBA?

Penderels Oak.

MBM

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Re: Bah!

2001-05-10 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Thu, 10 May 2001, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
 At 13:37 10/05/01 +0100, you wrote:
 Naah, it's not just a symlink.  I have a custom 404 handler which looks
 for pages similar to what you asked for based on a small database of
 things which may have changed.  I haven't updated it recently, but will
 do.  I'll make it so that requests for .../cv.foo get translated to
 .../cv[latest-version].foo.
 HTTP::Approx anyone?

mod_speling

MBM

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RE: Not Matt's Scripts

2001-05-02 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 2 May 2001, Cross David - dcross wrote:
 Yep. But Net::SMTP is not a stadard module and therefore sendmail wins.

That wasn't the reason. The reason was the same as one of the reasons for
rewriting matt's scripts in the first place - that the error handling
sucks. You can't sensibly error handle with Net::SMTP. This is why there
was discussion, however, on widnoze, (not sure about vanilla mac (rather
than os x)) there is no sensible way to do a queued message.

MBM

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Re: tube strike / may meeting postponed til 10th

2001-05-02 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 2 May 2001, Leon Brocard wrote:
 jo walsh sent the following bits through the ether:
  well, it looks like the tube strike (8pm Weds 2nd May - 8pm Thurs 3rd May)
  is still on, and this will scupper our May social meeting plans rather.
 It's not anymore, but we shouldn't shift the date again:
 http://www.thetube.com/content/pressreleases/
 Where will the (delayed) meeting be? Have we booked a room? ;-)

PO?

MBM

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Re: its TRUE I tell you ...

2001-04-28 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Sat, 28 Apr 2001, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 http://www.mslinux.org/
| Registrant:
| SUID Productions (MSLINUX2-DOM)
|301 N. Market St.
|Dallas, TX 75202
|US
| 
|Domain Name: MSLINUX.ORG
| 
|Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Billing Contact:
|   Sysop  (SYS8-ORG)  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|   Milliways Internet
|   5601 Santa Fe Trail
|   Watauga, TX 76148
|   US
|   817-485-1115
| 
|Record last updated on 06-Apr-2001.
|Record expires on 02-Apr-2003.
|Record created on 02-Apr-1999.
|Database last updated on 28-Apr-2001 11:04:00 EDT.
| 
|Domain servers in listed order:
|
|NS1.MILLIWAYS.NET208.128.69.2
|NS2.MILLIWAYS.NET208.128.69.3
|NS3.MILLIWAYS.NET208.128.69.4

I like some of this. Milliways internet (the internet at the end of the
universe?) SUID productions. find / -name productions -perm -0400 ?

so it's true is it? :) You're late by about 28 days, sorry.

MBM

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Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:20:35PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
  On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Paul Makepeace wrote:
   But, how is it non compliant? And when was 75MB of diskspace an issue?
   That's about 20p.
  Where do you get sensible disk (including backup) that cheap? We'd all
  like to know...
 Sorry, my mistake, 14p. 80GB for $216 + $2 for a hacksaw. Cut into
 a little over a thousand pieces. Hand out at parties.
 You backup your copy of IE? LOL

Ghost?

*I* don't have IE.

MBM

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perl -e '$i=sub{length($_[0])-1};$_= \n.rekcah lreP rehtona tsuJ ;while(
$i($_)){print unpack xx$i($_).a1, $_ ;$_=unpacka.$i($_),$_}print'




Re: [OT] Flecktones in London next month

2001-04-20 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Jonathan Stowe wrote:
 On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Nathan Torkington wrote:
  5/2/2001Pizza Express   London, England
 Which Pizza Express ?

*The* Pizza Express (in Soho) where they play the jazz.

MBM

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Re: Beginners Guide

2001-04-19 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Robert Shiels wrote:
 Hmm. I too am pissed off about this digital stuff, as the quality is worse
 than analogue TV. My measure of quality is uninterrupted viewing. I have yet
 to watch any digital TV where at some point the picture didn't pixelate or
 completely blank for a few seconds. I have an excellent Sony 100Hz TV, and
 cannot fault the picture. Why are we being forced down this digital route?
 Money I expect.

Why else? Basically, it's a bit like the G3 phones, although we haven't
heard so much about the investment phase. Some companies poured huge
amounts of money into the research to do digital streaming (and various
forms of compression[1]. Now they want their investment back, but noone
will buy DigitalTV [2][3] unless they have no alternative. So they've
asked the government to make sure that there is no alternative.

[1] Of course compression/error-correcting pick one, hence the pixellation
etc.
[2] Whatever standard
[3] We aren't the US, and they misread the market. A large number of
British people are quite happy with the small number of channels,
because they appreciate that larger number of channels just means that
the good stuff is spread even more thinly.

 But if you get a digital TV/receiver, surely BBC is available for free
 without any subscriptions. If this is not the case then I think it's
 criminal.

Why? The digital TV is a one-off cost. The license is on-going. The
revenue from the digital TV/reciever doesn't go to the beeb.

Personally I don't mind funding the beeb, as long as the quality of
content they produce is high. I do object to funding random corporations
whose interests are to their shareholders...

 /Robert
 [thinking maybe he should have taken this to (void)]

No, it's "on-topic" for london.pm. :)

MBM

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Re: Technical Meeting - 19th April

2001-04-10 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 * Matthew Byng-Maddick ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Simon Wistow wrote:
   I shall proceed from here whence forth unto smack Mr Cantrell until he
   doth giveth over the designs. Hither-unto. And heretowards.
  Can we all join in?
 yes the hitch in the t-shirt plan seems to be Mr Cantrell, so i think 
 we all need to
   smack our hitch up
 ;-)

That was kind of what I meant.

MBM (any excuse :)

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Re: Perl on HPUX

2001-04-10 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Dean wrote:
   Question for the list, i'm currently writing some scripts for a HP box
 running HPUX 11 and i keep hitting the same error when ever i try and use
 something (even 'use strict;'.) The error is "syntax error in file p2.pl
 at line 2, next 2 tokens "use strict" ". The file is a noddy script with
 
 #!/usr/contrib/bin/perl
 use strict;
 
 print "Working...\n";
 
 Does anyone on list have any experience with perl on this platform and know
 if i need to change the shebang or anything similar.

What end of line characters is your editor putting in? If not \n this may
be part of the problem.

Also you're missing a "-w" on the end of the shebang line... :)

MBM

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RE: Disclaimer

2001-04-10 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, dcross - David Cross wrote:
[broken quoting snipped]
 You want the GPL for that. Which means that you can't use my copyright
 message as it includes the Artisitc License - which doesn't disallow your
 point 2.

The GPL doesn't stop you selling the derived work. What it *does* do,
however is to say that the derived work must be under a GPL-compatible
license, which makes it, in general, uneconomical to sell the work.

MBM

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RE: Disclaimer

2001-04-10 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Aaron Trevena wrote:
 On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
  On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, dcross - David Cross wrote:
  [broken quoting snipped]
   You want the GPL for that. Which means that you can't use my copyright
   message as it includes the Artisitc License - which doesn't disallow your
   point 2.
  The GPL doesn't stop you selling the derived work. What it *does* do,
  however is to say that the derived work must be under a GPL-compatible
  license, which makes it, in general, uneconomical to sell the work.
 The common mis-perception about the GPL is that you can't sell or profit
 from selling GPL software.

Erm. Why don't you quote my message and repeat what it says... :)

 You can sell at any price you like, the software with or without nice
 pakcaging and manuals, you can sell the support at any price you like and
 you can sell the manuals at any price you like. All you have to do is
 publish it under the GPL and make the source available at cost price or
 reasonabley close.

No. You cannot sell the source and binaries seperately. The point is that
anyone having bought your code/binaries is free to do what they like,
including giving to all their friends, so it is uneconomical to *sell*
stuff under the GPL.

This is why it's *effectively* free-beer free. RMS used to sell the tapes
for the EMACS shell^Wtext-editor at way more than cost price of the tapes,
and people still bought them. They could have got a copy from someone who
already had the tapes or from somewhere else, but they *chose* to have the
tapes.

MBM

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Re: Disclaimer

2001-04-10 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Aaron Trevena wrote:
 The simplist would be 
 # Name - brief description. (c) Copyright 2001 A Nother #
 # This is free software available under the same license as perl itself 
 # This sofwate comes with NO WARRANTY. For more information see URL or
 FILE.
 The NO WARRANTY bit is fairly important, as is specifiying uunder what
 license it is made availab.e - common are Public Doman (not teh default,
 default is all rights reserved), BSD  artistic license (fairly
 similar) and the GNU GPL and LGPL.

The artisitic license isn't worth the paper it's printed on...

 I habitually use the GPL, I have only recently realised how much of a pig
 it can be to keep a derived work compliant. It will now take as long to
 audit the changes made to mny derived work of mwforum as it did to do some
 of the debugging. This is a good thing and a bad thing - It does mean you
 keep more control over your work, but at the same time it means that there

If you want to keep control, use something like the Apache-modified BSD
license. This allows you to keep the name * for your scripts.

 is little reward for doing a major piece of work on somebody elses code,
 even if you replace 99% of it, its still entirely their copyright and not
 yours, so you essentially hand over your moral rights to waht you have
 done.

Hmmm I would have thought that how much of the work you replace
defines how tightly bound you are by the license of the previous work.

 I could be wrong of course - buit that is how it seems.

I don't know. IANAL.

MBM

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Re: sub BEGIN {}

2001-04-04 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 02:22:38AM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:
   Yeah, yeah drunks, skateboarders, musicians .
  ...geeks, goths, jugglers, Natscis.  And that's just me.

ex-natscis too. :)

 I raise you (at least) two accomplished unicyclists...

Doesn't that make a bicyclist?

 Paul, whose uni got nicked in fscking cambridge. "Ooh, it's got a wheel!
 Not the usual two, but fuck it, let's steal it anyway!"

Ah, but people so often have quick release front wheels... erm.

MBM

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Re: Crazy Idea

2001-04-04 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 * Robin Szemeti ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  On Tue, 03 Apr 2001, you wrote:
   Hmmm. Do the words "foot" and "mouth" mean nothing to you?
  maybe ...
  do the words 'I have my own field' mean anything to you ;)
 yip, but its probably not near sussex and you really don't
 want a 5 ft radius circle of charcoal left in it

Ah but would it have charcoal. That would - after all - mean we're not
burning things properly... :) Greg, you've lost your touch if you're only
producing charcoal. You need to be vapourising things... erm.

MBM

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Re: Crazy Idea

2001-04-04 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Simon Wilcox wrote:
 At 02:38 04/04/2001 +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 * Simon Wilcox ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
   Count me in. I have a tent and everything !
 any you have the ``right'' attitude when it comes to beer and
 explosives
 I used to use theatrical maroons (explosives with electrical detonators) to 
 blow up bits of the garden.
 They made very effective mines to destroy Action Men too.
 Admittedly I was only 10 at the time but I think that counts as the "right" 
 attitude ;-)

.. And you seemed so normal when I met you 

MBM

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Re: Silly postings

2001-04-04 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Lucy McWilliam wrote:
 On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
   On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 02:22:38AM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:
...geeks, goths, jugglers, Natscis.  And that's just me.
  ex-natscis too. :)
 Are you?  I'm actually doing productive things in the lab, so this shall
 be my last pointless posting of the day.

Sure. Right. :)

Yeah. I attempted to be a physicist, and failed, (partly through spending
time perl programming. :). Not impressive really.

   Paul, whose uni got nicked in fscking cambridge. "Ooh, it's got a wheel!
   Not the usual two, but fuck it, let's steal it anyway!"
 I apologise on behalf of my city :-( 
 Yes, it's all mine!  Muhahahah.

Hmmm... You can have it. :)

 "Sex is kinda like pizza. When it's bad, it's still pretty good."

!!

MBM

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Re: sub BEGIN {}

2001-04-04 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Dean wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 11:14:48AM +0100, Dean wrote:
 Lonix is normally pub, pub, food, pub maybe club. It covers as much Linux
 as the London PM social nights do Perl ;)

Last time I went to Lonix, it was full of w4r3z d00dz. :( The kind of
people who only used linux because they didn't have to pay for it.

Tushar was an exception.

MBM

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RE: Silly postings

2001-04-04 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, james_h wrote:
 Ok so that is possibly the most unfunny thing i have ever seen.  No offense.

If that's what you think was it necessary to quote the entire message?

MBM (hasn't done this flame on london.pm yet... :)

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Re:

2001-04-04 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Philip Newton wrote:
 Unfortunately, while the disclaimer came out fine, my mailer (MS Outlook)
 displayed the real "body" (with your message) as an attachment.

It started 
 begin 777 RE:

so it was uuencoded. And therefore, for once, LookOut was correct.

MBM

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Re:

2001-04-04 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 On Wed, 04 Apr 2001, I wrote:
  so it was uuencoded. And therefore, for once, LookOut was correct.
 but surely the headers should have declared it as multipart mime encoded
 and declared content boundary separators? .. or ar those optional ..and
 if so how to you tell the difference between plain text  

 begin 777 RE:
 and an attachment?

You don't.

Remember that uuencoding was devised in a time before MIME.

MBM

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Re: Test

2001-04-04 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Simon Cozens wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 04:30:53PM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote:
  However, it's more all these *** job agencies sending me things
  in multi-crap that I'm shifting home over a modem to read at home.
  scp -C is good at making things smaller, but not as good as not having
  crap in the first place.
 If it's just an ordinary Unix mailbox, may I suggest Mail::Audit?

Feature request - IMAP client.

MBM

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Re:

2001-04-04 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
 No.  I couldn't be bothered.  If what he has to say isn't important
 enough to send properly, then it's not important enough for me to read.

I remember having a discussion with you way back when about SAUCE. This
was kind of the attitude you were arguing *against*.

Oh well.

MBM

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Re:

2001-04-04 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:17:15PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
  On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
   No.  I couldn't be bothered.  If what he has to say isn't important
   enough to send properly, then it's not important enough for me to read.
  I remember having a discussion with you way back when about SAUCE. This
  was kind of the attitude you were arguing *against*.
 Bollocks.
 SAUCE is concerned with header information, DNS correctness etc.  In the
 above, I am ranting about content.

No you aren't. You're ranting about metacontent (ie content presentation
method correctness) which is what headers etc provide.

Bt. You lose.

:)

MBM

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Re: Crazy Idea

2001-04-03 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Struan Donald wrote:
 * at 03/04 16:47 +0100 Andrew Bowman said:
  Either that or he misread FM as SM, or, worse, FHM.
 well, that unstructured data is difficult tp parse :)

Is dave cross written in Perl?

MBM (thinks his visual parser algorithms are probably written in BASIC :( )

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Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

2001-04-02 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Sun, 1 Apr 2001, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 On Sun, 01 Apr 2001, you wrote:
  On Sun, 1 Apr 2001, Robin Szemeti wrote:
   agreed it is a dumb thing, especially if your nameserver doesnt have a
   name to lookup 
  Erm!!?!? How exactly were you planning to point anything at it? an NS
  RR requires an authoritative name as it's RHS.
 if its a box-over-in-the corner that one day will be your DNS server
 somewhere but right now its just a ip address on a network you're trying
 to test before deploying .. it did get a name eventually.

Hmmm.. I don't quite know how you can *test* it, if it hasn't got any
names, and therefore can't serve any zones...

 and .. surely not all the nameservers are necessarily named, only the ones
 published to the world, you could have internal servers that don;t answer
 external queries (such as a primary master server with two slaves used as
 authoratative servers to the world, whilst your primary master is left
 untroubled) in which case the primary master would not need a name just
 an address, and you might want to query it directly yourself to make sure
 it was not telling porkies. ??

*burble*! It is reasonable to have this property, yes, but then what do
you put in the host part of the SOA record for the zones served by this.
The entry there should be the master server for the zone. The other case
that you might want this is for a resolver, however again, the small
amount of work involved in assigning a name for the machine in question
suggests that you get no added benefit by *not* doing so.

MBM

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Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

2001-04-01 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 On Fri, Mar 30, 2001 at 01:41:14PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
  host(1)'s error messages are often misleading - it can give the message
  "try again" to nxdomain responses, for example...
 Given how fast .NSI namespace is being eaten up, that doesn't seem like
 such an unrealistic message :-)

H But what about typos? dot.con?

MBM

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Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

2001-04-01 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Sun, 1 Apr 2001, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 agreed it is a dumb thing, especially if your nameserver doesnt have a
 name to lookup 

Erm!!?!? How exactly were you planning to point anything at it? an NS
RR requires an authoritative name as it's RHS.

MBM

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Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

2001-03-30 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Steve Keay wrote:
 nslookup does a rather dumb thing:  it tries to lookup the reverse DNS
 for the nameserver it's about to use.  Apart from being a waste of
 time, failure to find the name means it will refuse to query that
 nameserver.

Why doesn't your nameserver *have* reverse DNS.

 nslookup is a throwback to 1970's UNIX bollocks, as is the whole of
 the BIND distribution.  If you have to use anything from BIND, host
 and dig are at least somewhat consistent

host(1)'s error messages are often misleading - it can give the message
"try again" to nxdomain responses, for example...

MBM

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Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

2001-03-29 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, you wrote:
  Yes. Either you have to translate "randomkanji" to "bq--buffy"[2] in your
  head or with an appropriate tool, or nslookup will have to be smart
  enough[1] to translate "randomkanji" to "bq--buffy" before asking the
  resolver library.
 err [1] unlikely to happen because its deprecated as of BIND-tools version
 9.1

oh, how crap.

 you are apparently supposed to use dig or host .. my feeling is that
 nslookup is too easy to use and useful so they decided to deprecate it to
 make it harder for non BIND gurus to be able to tell wahts going on ...

It's not easy to use, but it has better error reporting than the default
host(1) command. I think it really is time to switch to using adnshost
more...

MBM

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Re: Social Meeting (fwd)

2001-03-29 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Simon Cozens wrote:
   (Spring Cascade today at the Orange Brewery brewpub
 in Pimlico. Not a bad beer.)

I thought you were in Wales...

MBM

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Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

2001-03-28 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Mark Fowler wrote:
 On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Aaron Trevena wrote:
  I think java is likely to be associated with a load of spectacular
  failures. 
 To be fair, most of these won't be Java's fault.  It's just that Java is

No, they'll be the vendor JVM's fault. :)

 the first choice of someone who is going on buzzwords, and hasn't really
 thought about the technical issues involved.

True.

MBM

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I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it. -- Mae West




Re: Buffycode (was Re: That book)

2001-03-28 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
 Would this be an appropriate time to point out that my TPC talk 
 proposes the creation of a Parse::Perl::Approx module :)

You are an evil man.

MBM

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Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

2001-03-28 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 * Simon Cozens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 08:47:03PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
   I suggest (with Dave Cross' blessing), that we
   form the London.pm certification. NetThink and Iterative will 
   sign up to teach to a given level of skills (or several levels).
  Fuck it. Let's do it.

Firstly, mod_perl passim.

 Well as a fairly independent person in this matter, i will volunteer
 to coordinate this. Unless there are any objections - i already

TIMTOWTDI kind of screws things up. Different people will code in
different styles. How can you evaluate this?

 have a reasonable plan og how to achieve this _quickly_. I can

Please share this

 take it from Simon's email that NetThink believe this to be a good
 idea, if others can reply _on list_ we can get a good sense
 of commitment, i think i identified some parties in the previous
 email.

If I see a sensible plan for certification, this sounds sensible, but
consider what most people think of eg. MCSEs.

Please enlighten us.

MBM

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Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

2001-03-28 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 * Matthew Byng-Maddick ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  TIMTOWTDI kind of screws things up. Different people will code in
  different styles. How can you evaluate this?
 it doesn't matter how they achieve most things, as long as they can
 do them ... reasonably

Fair. Where do you draw the line of "reasonably". This falls down to
personal preference.

   have a reasonable plan og how to achieve this _quickly_. I can
  Please share this
 it's too late tonight, i'll try and remember tommorow, the plan is more 
 how to get it organised and do all the dull procedural stuff quickly

Sure.

 the actual content is up for debate, although i think levels of perl
 `skillz' would suck, i'd much rather see a ``core'' perl
 certification,

OK. Fair enough. This sounds reasonable.

 and slowly secondary skill certifications being developed and registered,
 however at launch, probably WWW and DBI spring to mind as two
 secondary ones that will be there from the word go - however they will be 
 focused quite tightly on their areas

Do you not think that in today's internet world, these mostly go together.
Interestingly, though, in training new people at my current company, I
discovered that they are quicker to learn Perl, and have much more of a
problem with the stateless nature of HTTP and the implications of dealing
with web browsers. That doesn't belong in a Perl certification. This is
kind of where it gets difficult, and why the mod_perl'ers appeared to
abandon it...

  If I see a sensible plan for certification, this sounds sensible, but
  consider what most people think of eg. MCSEs.
  
  Please enlighten us.
 well hopefully when people get in tommorow they will either say yes or
 no, i'll get a plan of action out soon after that 

I'm curious to see what you come up with. The interesting bit is where you
draw the line...

MBM

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Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

2001-03-28 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Simon Cozens wrote:
 On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 09:05:43PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
  If I see a sensible plan for certification, this sounds sensible, but
  consider what most people think of eg. MCSEs.
 That's mainly due to the M rather than the C.

OK, well some of the Cisco courses are pretty crap too...

MBM

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Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

2001-03-27 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 ironically, a lot of .com problems could of been avoided and yet they
 still would of made the deadlines imposed by `internet time', if they
 had slowed down and used traditional business techniques such as
 cost/benefit analysis to prioritise functionality

spam has a high cost/benefit ratio... :(

 taking a random site - lastminute.com

spammers.

 i just went there, no their business model is essentially - sell
 stuff at the last minute, generally targetting people with
 disposable income

and spamming.

 so i look at their site, they have chatroom functionality! why?
 why does a site selling this sort of thing need chatroom
 functionality? what is the benefit compared to its cost

well, quite. So you can chat about how crap they are. And of course,
because everyone else is doing it, so we have to too. :(

MBM

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Re: Helping Less... er... Able... Programmers

2001-03-27 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
 I've developed this weird habit of hanging around places where less
 able Perl programmers congregate and trying to distribute clues.

You've also developed the bad habit of referring to them as "programmers".

 The latest place I've found is the BBS for readers of Liz Castro's
 book. It certainly gives you some perspective[1] on her target
 audience.

Yeah /me read it and now wants to run away fast, though it is quite
amusing...

 Anyway, I didn't want to keep this delight to myself. If anyone wants
 to join in my fun, the board is at:
 http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl

Haven't got the time to do my standard flamey stuff, and my asbestos suit
is looking a little worn at the moment... :)

MBM

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Re: Perl Training Courses

2001-03-27 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Philip Newton wrote:
 (Don't know whether CPAN.pm knows this for you. It may.)

Yes, it does.

MBM

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Re: Benchmarking [was] Re: Not Matt's Scripts

2001-03-27 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Simon Wilcox wrote:
 At 16:53 27/03/2001 +0100, Robin Houston wrote:
 On Tue, Mar 27, 2001 at 05:40:19PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
   Well, remember that the sub effecticaly recalculates (what amounts to) the
   array each time. To be fair, you should include the array initialisation
   inside the loop and see who wins then.
 Hey, that's not _fair_!
 The whole point of using an array is that you can pre-populate it.
 (also it's more concise, and I find it more comprehensible. YMMV)
 I agree, it's how I would have done it. I was just trying to see it really 
 deserved the label "evil and gross hack".

Because it was only meant to deal with things up to 31, if you try and
(for some reason) try to put 32 in, you would get 32th (because it has
populated the array). I don't like that kind of thing. It's a personal
choice. I think the bit I objected to most was the $th[31]="st" bit. I
shouldn't have put it like that, but as Robin says, TIMTOWTDI,so yeah.

 It seems to me that it doesn't but as you say, YMMV and I got to practice 
 my benchmarking :-)

:) I did expect it to be slower, it also copes with any number.

MBM

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Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

2001-03-26 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I vaguely recall it standing for something like "Heuristic Algorithmic
 Logic," but that doesn't really set it apart from anything.

how does that explain SAL9000?

MBM

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Re: Perl Training Courses

2001-03-21 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Mark Fowler wrote:
 On 2001, 21, Mar, Wed Stevens, Michael wrote:
  On Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 04:19:57PM +, Mark Fowler wrote:
   One of my collegues asked me about Perl training courses in the U.K. 
  Wasn't there some kerazy scheme to get london.pm doing courses?
 Sorry.  Perl training in *programming* not perl training in *drinking* ;-)

Good programmers aren't necessarily good teachers.

MBM

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perl -e  'print reverse split//,"\n.rekcah lreP rehtona tsuJ"'
perl -e   '$_="\n.rekcah lreP rehtona tsuJ";m!$!;print$while($`=~m,.$,s)'




Re: Perl Training Courses

2001-03-21 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On 21 Mar 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
 d) Debugging

Amen

MBM

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perl -e  'print reverse split//,"\n.rekcah lreP rehtona tsuJ"'
perl -e   '$_="\n.rekcah lreP rehtona tsuJ";m!$!;print$while($`=~m,.$,s)'




Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

2001-03-20 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Michael Stevens wrote:
 On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 04:40:29PM +, Simon Wilcox wrote:
  At 16:29 20/03/2001 +, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
a) a two reasons why this module should never have been written, and
  2. MM DD YY is an evil date format, and should be abolished in favour of DD
  MM YY which is more sensible.
  Or even better YY-MM-DD which avoids cross-pond confusion.
 And sorts more nicely too. and is a dessert topping *and* a floor wax.

Am I allowed to mention -MM-DD, which actually sorts best of all... Do
we really not learn from Y2K?

MBM

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Re: LWP::Simple

2001-03-16 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Robin Houston wrote:
 On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 02:44:30PM +0100, Philip Newton wrote:
  For FTP URLs: don't know. For HTTP URLs: no such thing.
 Technically you're right. LWP does support it though.
 And so does every other user agent in the universe,
 pretty much; so you'd have to be a pretty severe
 standards pedant to say there was no such thing ;-)

Lynx doesn't.

MBM

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Re: LWP::Simple

2001-03-16 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Philip Newton wrote:
 Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
  On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Robin Houston wrote:
   And so does every other user agent in the universe,
   pretty much; so you'd have to be a pretty severe
   standards pedant to say there was no such thing ;-)
  Lynx doesn't.
 IIRC, it does, sort of -- it uses username:password as basic authentication
 but doesn't strip them off when sending the "Host:" header, which confuses
 some web servers.

In other words, it supports them in a different way to everything else. :)
Standards are great when there are so many to choose from.

Personally, I'd say that's "not supporting them". But hey... :)

MBM

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Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 02:55:28PM +, Michael Stevens wrote:
  I've been thinking that, while not ideal, webDAV is probably the best
  option here. I'm told it's a) secure-ish, and b) integrates nicely
  with Dreamweaver and whatever microsoft's thing is.
 WebDAV is ok, but you'd need to run it over HTTPS to be secure.

The other thing is that *WHEN* subversion comes out, the protocol allows
for version control, and there'll actually be a decent way of implementing
version control, so if the people who are doing the uploading screw up,
you have some chance of rolling back.

DAV over HTTPS is not that bad, though...

MBM

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Re: Matt's Scripts

2001-03-14 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
 At Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:10:02 +, David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 03:01:17PM +, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
   WebDAV is ok, but you'd need to run it over HTTPS to be secure.
  WebDAV is not OK, cos it means installing yet more stuff on the server
  which is simply not needed.  If a user can't use scp, then I don't 
  want that user.  I mean, it's not hard FFS.
 An admirable point of view in my opinion. Why would anyone possibly
 want to run an ISP and have to deal with all the clueless people?

Well, quite. Of course, if their computer hasn't got a queueing mail
system, then I don't want that either :)

MBM

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Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Michael Stevens wrote:
 On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:47:48PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
  Write some stuff which will scan the local network for open relays and
  then just talk SMTP to them.  Someone stupid enough to not be able to
  install modules is stupid enough to have open relays.
 If it's the local network the ability to relay SMTP through a machine
 would be entirely sensible, surely?

Ah. Now what you want is to get a machine off ORBS to try and relay mail
through them with some source-routed path :) That's the way to abuse
them. :)

MBM

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Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
 On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:19:46PM +, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
  On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
   On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:09:42PM +, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
 I've just seen a downside to the "no non-standard modules" rule, which is 
 that we'll have to send all mail by piping to sendmail. And that really 
 hits your cross-platform compatibility.
Why is this a problem? /usr/lib/sendmail is the published interface.
   And for those unfortunate enough to be using Windows?
  Then are they going to be running an SMTP listener? If so, where?
 I neither know nor care.  I was taking issue with your claim that relying
 on /usr/lib/sendmail is a good idea.

This arose because of your original claim that relying on an SMTP listener
is a good idea. What happens if, say, your reverse DNS is temporarily
unavailable, and some hosts are deferring messages from you? This policy
will probably be implemented across backup MXs too. SMTP allows for
deferral. If you can't stick them on a queue, you shouldn't be trying to
do SMTP. /usr/lib/sendmail is a good interface for not worrying about
this, as it will always put messages on a queue in the first place. 4xx
are deferrals.

Also, some MXs are *slow*. How do you guarantee to do your SMTP
asynchronously from your HTTP transaction?

If you neither know nor care, then why advocate this in the first place?

MBM

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Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
 On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 03:38:52PM +, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
  On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
   I neither know nor care.  I was taking issue with your claim that relying
   on /usr/lib/sendmail is a good idea.
  This arose because of your original claim that relying on an SMTP listener
  is a good idea. What happens if, say, your reverse DNS is temporarily
  unavailable
 Then you have more important things to worry about, such as finding an
 ISP with a clue.

Yes, agreed. But you shouldn't just be injecting mail unless you know what
will happen on failure. Handling errors sensibly is a part of good
programming.

  and some hosts are deferring messages from you? This policy
  will probably be implemented across backup MXs too. SMTP allows for
  deferral. If you can't stick them on a queue, you shouldn't be trying to
  do SMTP.
 Why not?  It's not as if the sort of people using web-mail scripts without
 their own mail server have anything important to say.  If it was important,
 they would invest in their own server or at least an ISP that provided
 appropriate facilities.

Personally I don't want to lose mail. This could happen if I try to do
SMTP and get it wrong. It is less likely to happen with (eg) batch SMTP or
a sendmail -t implementation.

 Of course, what you should do is try *both*.  Actually, you should first
 try to use a module.  If that fails, see if /usr/lib/sendmail exists and
 is executable.  If it is, then great, use it.  If it isn't available, try
 direct SMTP.  Graceful degradation is a Good Thing.

Agreed. What do you think the module will do? :)

   /usr/lib/sendmail is a good interface for not worrying about
  this, as it will always put messages on a queue in the first place. 4xx
  are deferrals.
  Also, some MXs are *slow*. How do you guarantee to do your SMTP
  asynchronously from your HTTP transaction?
  If you neither know nor care, then why advocate this in the first place?
 Cos it's wrong to just assume sendmail is available.

It's also wrong to assume that SMTP is available. :)

 BTW, try reading what I write in future.  If you had, you would have
 noticed that I said "(joke)" after talking about looking for relays.

I wasn't actually replying to that, if you go back in the cascade. I
realise that that is a joke :). It was the other bit I was replying to.

 If you think that counts as 'advocating' that, then I would suggest
 investing in some English lessons.

You might want these lessons, to read the cascade. That was a seperate
subthread. sorry. you lose.

MBM

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Re: Strange Request

2001-03-09 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Fri, 9 Mar 2001, Dean wrote:
 code (Not Obfuscated contest level though :)) that i can use as
 examples of bad coding style.

 If all else fails I'll be raiding Matts script archive ;)

This is probably your best bet :) 

MBM (runs away very fast from ever having to touch a piece of code by the
 now infamous Matt Wright ever again...)

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[CV][JOB WANTED]

2001-03-02 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

Apologies to those who have already read this via [EMAIL PROTECTED] or
any other means.

I'm looking for another job. As soon as possible being preferable. My
current CV is at

http://colondot.net/mbm/cv.shtml

I can do Perl (lots of it) and mod_perl. I also have a little experience
with XS and a fair amount with C. I have used MySQL as a database,
although am willing to learn any other SQL implementation. I know a
reasonable amount about UNIX and about writing server applications. I've
also done a fair bit of web application work with Apache (although I tried
to just getting to write modules so that other people could do that...)

If anyone has a job that they think I would be suitable for, please could
they email me.

MBM