Re: Templating Solutions

2001-06-19 Thread David Cantrell

On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 10:20:37AM +0100, Steve Purkis wrote:
 David Cantrell wrote:
  
  Seriously, I agree 100% that you should strive to seperate application
  from your presentation as much as possible, but seeing that you can not
  do this entirely, you may as well embed perl in your HTML and save
  yourself the trouble of inventing a whole new wheel.
 
 That sounds like a contradictory statement there

I don't think so.  Whilst you should seperate application and presentation
as much as possible, it's a recognition that you'll never be able to
*entirely* seperate them, and so seeing that you're going to have to have
*some* code mixed in with your presentation, you may as well re-use an
existing language instead of inventing a new one.

   of course the line
 will never be 100% clear  cut-out...  And as for inventing new wheels -
 well we're all coders  scientists  engineers here...  That's what we
 do!

Well yeah, and it's fun too, but in this case the new wheel is not
necessary.  And if I'm building this for your company, I think you'd
rather I spent time writing a kick-ass application (which would of
course be maintainable, extensible, scalable and all sorts of other
laudable -ables) rather than spending the same amount of time writing
a kick-ass mini-language (or learning someone else's mini-language)
and a mediocre app.

 I see where you're coming from, but think about how this will be abused
 - coders will get lazy and eventually just embed all the business logic
 in the templates.

Yes, they will.  Unless you have proper procedures in place to prevent
it.  Luckily, perl makes it rather easy to encapsulate application logic
elsewhere.

 I'd argue that embedding code in your templates is on the way out, and
 the sooner it goes the better.

So how do you think it can be achieved?

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Re: early peek at a bit of fun

2001-06-18 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 10:35:08AM +0100, Paul Mison wrote:
 On 18/06/2001 at 09:02 +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
 
 Last I heard, we had at least one subscriber currently living in
 Australia.
 
 Leon, how about a london.pm world map :)
 
 Combine it with the (sadly mythical) IP2LL and it'd be easy.

Just require that to join london.pm you must have a LOC record in your
DNS.  Ah hell, let's require HINFO as well.

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Re: e-smith

2001-06-18 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 12:12:33PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:

 Tangentially on-topic for this list because of skud's involvement...

What is this 'topic' of which you speak?

 I see that the new edtion of Linux Format comes with a copy of e-smith on
 the CD. According to the blurb, e-smith is a complete, easy to use and
 install server/gateway system that manages mail, firewalling,
 file-sharing, prinintg - everything you need from your server.

Bleah.

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Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

2001-06-18 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 02:00:32PM +0100, Mark Hynes wrote:

 On Jun 17, David Cantrell wrote:

  david@lapdog:~$ HEAD http://www.gateway.gov.uk|grep ^Server
  Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0
  
  That, and EDS and Microsoft being involved.
 
 Ah, so primarily blind bigotism then.

No, they're using software with a poor reputation, and having the site
developed in conjunction with two companies with a poor reputation.

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Re: Templating Solutions

2001-06-18 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 04:46:25PM +0100, Leo Lapworth wrote:

 I'd also like to mention HTML::Mason - Euuu, No, no and thrice no!
 (ok, has some nice 'bits' but NO - thou shalt not put thy
 HTML and thy Perl in the same file).

It is NOT POSSIBLE to completely divorce presentation/application.
So you end up with all sorts of languages made up to be mixed in with
the presentation - like PHP and the mini-language of TT.  Why are
those OK (I'm thinking specifically of TT - we all know PHP sucks for
other reasons) but plain ol' perl isn't?

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Re: Templating Solutions

2001-06-18 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 08:24:13PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
 On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 07:54:36PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
  On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 04:46:25PM +0100, Leo Lapworth wrote:
   I'd also like to mention HTML::Mason - Euuu, No, no and thrice no!
   (ok, has some nice 'bits' but NO - thou shalt not put thy
   HTML and thy Perl in the same file).
  It is NOT POSSIBLE to completely divorce presentation/application.
  So you end up with all sorts of languages made up to be mixed in with
  the presentation - like PHP and the mini-language of TT.  Why are
  those OK (I'm thinking specifically of TT - we all know PHP sucks for
  other reasons) but plain ol' perl isn't?
 
 Ohmigod, I'm agreeing with Cantrell on something!!

What am I doing wrong? ;-)

Seriously, I agree 100% that you should strive to seperate application
from your presentation as much as possible, but seeing that you can not
do this entirely, you may as well embed perl in your HTML and save
yourself the trouble of inventing a whole new wheel.

You can still stick your business logic elsewhere and have that called
by the perl embedded in the templates.

 Despite having written an embedded perl templating system, I'm now very
 much in favour of one where the tags are just delimiters as far as possible.
 Thus I think things like HTML::Template are actually better than TT2,
 precisely because the toy language in TT2 is just as bad as embedding code.
 
 See my point about SQL, as it's related to this.

Think of SQL as being a cross-language extension to the 'host' language
and you'll feel much better about it :-)

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Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

2001-06-17 Thread David Cantrell

On Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 12:49:50PM +0100, Mark Hynes wrote:
 On Jun 09, David Cantrell wrote:
  
  So yes, the only reason for not allowing me to use it is incompetence on
  the part of whichever civil 'servants' were in charge of implementing it.
 
 Out of interest, does anyone know if it's done in-house or contracted out?
 (I strongly suspect the latter)

The latter.  Via EDS and Microsoft, I believe.

  This incompetence is further manifested in their choice of platform.
  even if I *could* use it, I wouldn't use it anyway, as I do not have
  sufficient confidence in the integrity of the server for such important
  information as my (eg) medical and tax data.
 
 Err, why? What do you know about its implementation as opposed to any other
 government website?

david@lapdog:~$ HEAD http://www.gateway.gov.uk|grep ^Server
Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0

That, and EDS and Microsoft being involved.

Note that whilst other government sites may suffer from the same problems,
they are only sources of information and not places where I would submit
any information which I need to have kept confidential.

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(Open|Net)BSD local root exploit

2001-06-16 Thread David Cantrell

As there's plenty of BSDers here, and I expect that at least some of you
don't subscribe to Bugtraq and friends ...

http://www.securityfocus.com/vdb/?id=2873

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Re: (Open|Net)BSD local root exploit

2001-06-16 Thread David Cantrell

On Sat, Jun 16, 2001 at 08:58:02PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:

 ... ADD discussion on the horizon ...

So, anyone else up for some swords n' sorcery malarkey?

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David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

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Re: YAPC::Europe

2001-06-15 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 09:17:53AM +0100, Dean wrote:

  Although i worked at 
 Oven and hence can't organize a pissup in a brewery

That's odd, I'm sure I remember Oven doing at least that one thing well!

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Re: early peek at a bit of fun

2001-06-15 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 09:49:24PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 * Leon Brocard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  Greg McCarroll sent the following bits through the ether:
  
   It is a very alpha-ish cgi script that simply compiles a 
   Leader Board of known London.pm people
  
  The modules list is a bit out of date in this case (I'm at eight)...
 
 the blame the module list maintainer , not me ;-)

The list doesn't get updated that often - it was something like six months
after Data::Hexdumper was submitted to the modules mailing list and bunged
on CPAN before an updated list was issued.

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Re: *Buffy's Not Included

2001-06-14 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 11:19:10AM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
 Roger Burton West wrote:
  DBD::CSV is your friend.
 
 I second that. DBD::CSV is yum. Also handles escaping of double quotes or
 commas when inserting strings, etc.

Of course, the plain ol' CSV modules handle all the appropriate escaping
too if you use them to build your CSV records.  You do do that, right,
and not try to write the files yourself?

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Re: YAPC::Europe

2001-06-14 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 07:46:56PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:
 
   So how many people are bringing partners to YAPC::Europe?
 
 Some of us can't afford YAPC.  And some of us don't have partners :-(

maybe we could have Yet Another Beer :: London at the same time then.

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David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

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BUG: Tie::Hash::Rank

2001-06-13 Thread David Cantrell

I spotted a bug in Tie::Hash::Rank, which would break the DELETE and EXISTS
methods.  It's fixed in v 1.0.1 which is winging its way to CPAN as we speak.

Oops.

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Tie::Hash::Transactional

2001-06-13 Thread David Cantrell

Go me!  Tie::Hash::Transactional is written.  It implements a hash which
you can checkpoint and rollback.

I'll put it on my website as soon as my victim^Wlovely volunteer tester
has had a chance to play with it.

It was disgustingly easy to write - took about an hour, most of which was
writing the docs and the tests.

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David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Good advice is always certain to be ignored,
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Re: Upcoming technical meeting

2001-06-12 Thread David Cantrell

On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 04:28:14PM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
 David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  If this is because you don't have somewhere to stay on the Thursday night,
  I'm sure we can collectively find a way around that.  If you bring your
  passport, we'll even let you south of the river and my sofa is very
  comfortable and has a well-stocked booze cabinet next to it.
 
 It's a TRAP!

Curses!  That was my cunning plan to acquire more victims for the Sun god,
why'd you have to go and spoil it?  I need a sacrifice to get this VT320
working.

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David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Good advice is always certain to be ignored,
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Re: Upcoming technical meeting

2001-06-12 Thread David Cantrell

On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 05:18:43PM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
 Dominic Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 04:28:14PM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
 
   It's a TRAP!
  
  You been playing wy too much nethack recently.
 
 That was a tough level with comfy sofa and the drinks cabinet.

Even tougher - there's ethernet to the sofa too.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Good advice is always certain to be ignored,
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Books

2001-06-11 Thread David Cantrell

I'm having a clear-out of my bookshelves, and wonder if any of you lot
want any of the following:

Programming Perl (2nd ed)
Learning Perl (1st ed)
Photoshop in a nutshell

and the less relevant ones:

Amiga Workbench, and A500+ manual
Autocad 12 for beginners
Starting MS-DOS Assembler
DataEase 4.5 manuals
VB3Pro manuals
VB Power Toolkit
Database developers guide with VB3
AWT Programming for Java
JDBC Database Access with Java

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David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Good advice is always certain to be ignored,
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Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

2001-06-09 Thread David Cantrell

On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 01:54:01PM +0100, Robert Shiels wrote:

 From: Jonathan Stowe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  As a public service I would exhort all of you to go to this site and then
  complain when it tells you that you are using an 'Unsupported Browser'
  (which I guess will be more than half of you :)

 I agree that this is pants. I don't see why I need cookies, javascript and
 Java enabled. But I don't fully understand digital certificates.
 
 Assume for a moment that I'm using lynx on Linux, and I want to send the
 government my tax return securely. What are the security implications, can
 it actually be done. I don't want to go off half-cocked and complain about
 something when I don't fully understand why the alternative is better.

They also don't let you use Netscape on Linux, even with 128-bit encryption
and all the other security goodies.  That is just as secure as - if not
better than - IE on Windows.

So yes, the only reason for not allowing me to use it is incompetence on
the part of whichever civil 'servants' were in charge of implementing it.

This incompetence is further manifested in their choice of platform.
even if I *could* use it, I wouldn't use it anyway, as I do not have
sufficient confidence in the integrity of the server for such important
information as my (eg) medical and tax data.

 Could someone explain it to me, and give me an address to send my complaint
 to, and I'll definitely do it.

http://www.stand.org.uk should have the Fax My MP thing back soon.  I have
a long list of things to bother mine about, none of which he bothered
to answer when I asked him during the election campaign.  No surprise that
I didn't vote for the little shit then.

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David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Good advice is always certain to be ignored,
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Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

2001-06-09 Thread David Cantrell

On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 02:09:23PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 09, 2001 at 02:06:24PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
  So yes, the only reason for not allowing me to use it is incompetence on
  the part of whichever civil 'servants' were in charge of implementing it.
 
 And nothing to do with the deal struck between Microsoft and the government.
 No.

I tend not to pay much attention to conspiracy theories.

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David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

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Some pretty pictures ...

2001-06-08 Thread David Cantrell

... and some not so pretty pictures.

http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/london.pm/2001-06-07/

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Re: Sony Clie (was: Re: Social meet)

2001-06-07 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 11:12:23AM +0100, Tony Kennick wrote:

 On a roughly related note, can anyone recommend somewhere to look for the
 following.
 
 2) Cheep low end laptops. Basically don't need anything with a lot of zoom,
 just want to put linux on it to relieve train boredom. So my only real
 want is reasonably standard kit inside and battery life.

Morgans, New Oxford St.  They have a webshite too, but I disremember the
address.

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David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

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Re: tape changes

2001-06-05 Thread David Cantrell

On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 08:59:32PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 On Tue, 05 Jun 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
 
Question - how much data you got?
   tar.gzedded it comes to about 700 megs .. pour quoi?
  
  why arse with tapes when you can mirror?
 
 we did consider that .. and prior to 'arsing with tapes' that what we dun
 .. but it was eating at a not inconsderable rate into our meagre bandwidth
 allowance ... I take the point though ...

Were you being careful to only back up that which needed to be backed up?
Were you using rsync-over-ssh and not plain ol' scp?

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David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Good advice is always certain to be ignored,
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Re: crazy golf

2001-06-04 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 02:31:39PM +, Redvers Davies wrote:

  Assuming you're not a Masai tribesperson. And assuming that the
  Romans weren't lying about the Celts (Though why would they want to do
  that?)
 
 It would seem to me to be counter-productive.  If you want to conquer
 a country you don't spread rumours that they drink their victims blood.

True, cos that would tend to unsettle your troops.  However, as a post
facto rationalisation, it's great.  Look at how well off you are under
your Roman overlords!  Your kings no longer drink your blood!

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Good advice is always certain to be ignored,
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Re: General Election

2001-06-01 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 10:32:55AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:

 You'll have noticed, I hope, that next Thursday is both our June meeting and
 a General Election. I hope you'll all go and vote before the meeting so you
 don't have to dash off before the polling stations close :)

Vote Early, Vote Often!

 Someone (Paul?) mentioned a couple of weeks ago that it might be nice if we
 could all go somewhere after the pub to watch the results come in and...
 er... celebrate another victory for the christian democrats. If anyone
 still thinks this is a good idea, then I'm happy to offer my house as a
 venue for this. I suggest we leave the pub at about 9:30pm and get the tube
 back to mine, stopping at Threshers en route.

Sounds like a cunning plan.

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  Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system
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Re: crazy golf

2001-06-01 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 01:10:22PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:

 blech has just informed me, its 27/8/2001, which would make
 the first annual grand London.pm crazy golf open on the 25/8/2001

ECLASHESWITHLBW

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Re: General Election

2001-06-01 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 02:24:57PM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote:

 How about:
 
 The working class can kiss my arse
 I've got the foreman's job at last.
 
 Or
 The people's flag is deepest puce
 with fleurs de lys in pale chartreuse

Pah!

Sing to the Motherland, home of the free,
Bulwark of peoples in brotherhood strong.
O Party of Lenin, the strength of the people,
To Communism's triumph lead us on!

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David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system
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Re: General Election

2001-06-01 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 02:47:18PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:

 sing all you want, it will be you lot who have egg on your
 faces when a unionist/conservative coalition government is
 in power in a few weeks, ohhh yes

Hmmmph.  paul daniels if that happens, I'll leave the country /short
annoying baldie

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  Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system
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Re: crazy golf

2001-06-01 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 01:40:38PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:

  Or make the Queen's Birthday celebrations be on a Monday and make that
  a bank holiday, if you have to wrap things up in pageantry.
 
 Only a very short term solution. What do you do when we become a republic?

Then we have independence day, to celebrate the overthrowing of N hundred
years of Dutch and German oppression.  Yes, if I were a royalist, I'd be
a Jacobite.
 
 [1] But you've got to admit, she does look good for her age. Yeah, well so
 would I if I HADN'T DONE A FUCKING DECENT DAY'S WORK IN MY LIFE.

So *that's* the secret to your boyish good looks Dave! I knew there had
to be *something* good about contracting :-)

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Re: OT,Joke : Forwarded from alt.humour.best.of.usenet

2001-05-31 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 02:10:39PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:

 Heh! Sounds like he should be talking to Mike Corley[1].

Is that fuckwit still going?

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Re: I have my life back!

2001-05-29 Thread David Cantrell

On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 03:02:49PM +0100, Tony Kennick wrote:

 recruitment mode
 
 Sorry to just randomly attack you like this after reading your mail to
 London.pm's list. But a) are you a Camra member and b) are you going to
 work the great British beer festival in London this summer and/or you
 interested in working/going to beer festivals in general?
 
 /recruitment mode

And is anyone else going to the Glastonwick Beer Beer Poetry and More Beer
Festival next weekend?

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  Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system
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Re: more PDP-11s to rescue

2001-05-26 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 02:42:38PM -0400, Chris Devers wrote:
 At 11:07 AM 2001.05.25 +0100, Dave Cantrell wrote:
 Matthew Dell [snip] Austin, TX
 
 Any relation to that Mr Dell, of Austin, TX?

Somewhat unlikely.  Matthew is in England, it's Bill Bradford (him whose
message I forwarded) that's in TX.

IIRC, Bill has a couple of Vaxen he wants to get rid of to free up some
space if that's the sort of thing that floats your boat.

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more PDP-11s to rescue

2001-05-25 Thread David Cantrell


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David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our most advanced operating system
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Got some equipment that needs saving.  contact this guy 
directly and tell him I sent ya..

 On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 07:00:01AM +0100, Matt Dell wrote:
  Dear mrbill,
  I have several (at least five) PDP11-83s available, following the demise
   of some parcel sortation systems; there may be some (possibly four) 11-73s
  as well.
  If  pdp11.org  or anyone you know of  can make use of them, please
  contact me at:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   regards
 Matthew Dell

-- 
Bill Bradford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Austin, TX
___
GEEKS:  http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/geeks




Re: wantarray and Tied Hashed

2001-05-25 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 12:15:44PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:

 Anyway, as I said before, you can work around it with
 
 my @array = tied(%h)-FETCH('two');
 
 If anyone is interested, Tie::Hash::Regex is currently winging its way to
 your favourite CPAN mirror.

I wonder, could you do some magic with the calling stack so that your
FETCH can Do The Right Thing?

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David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

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Re: wantarray and Tied Hashed

2001-05-25 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 12:36:59PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:

 From: David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  I wonder, could you do some magic with the calling stack so that your
  FETCH can Do The Right Thing?
 
 Or, I could just accept that I'm a BAD MAN who is trying to PERVERT PERL in
 NASTY WAYS.

No, you're confusing yourself with Damian :-)

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Decisions decisions

2001-05-25 Thread David Cantrell

It seems that a PDP 11/73 is small enough to run at home.  So do I get one
or not?

-- 
Dave the Indecisive



Re: Decisions decisions

2001-05-25 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 03:08:41PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 * Dean ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 
  Ignore the heretic and his shouts of compare! swap! Embrace the
  siren call of the hardware.

I would never ignore the heretic - if I did, he wouldn't introduce me to
eccellent restaurants, and get me drunk and stuff.

 Don't encourage the spamrice hoarder, you know he is already
 too close to the edge ;-)

/me falls off the edge

fxaaa ... SPLAT/fx

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Re: wantarray and Tied Hashed

2001-05-24 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 11:28:27AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:

 package Tie::Hash::Test;
 
 sub FETCH {
   print wantarray is , wantarray ? true\n : false\n;
   return $_[0]-{$_[1]};
 }
 
 package main;
 
 my %h;
 tie %h, 'Tie::Hash::Test';
 
 %h = (one = 1, two = 2);
 
 my $scalar = $h{one};
 my @array = $h{two};
 
 This prints out wantarray is false on both accesses. To me, this implies
 that Perl is doing something strange behind the scenes and is forcing the
 FETCH call to always be in scalar context, when I'd expect the second call
 to be evaluated in list context.

FETCH will indeed be called in scalar context.  You can only store scalars
as hash values, and so you will never want to get an array out of them.

Even if you do:

my @array=@h{@multiple_keys}

FETCH will still be called once for each key, in scalar context.

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Re: wantarray and Tied Hashed

2001-05-24 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 12:28:39PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:

 Calling FETCH like this:
 
 $scalar = tied(%h)-FETCH('one');
 @array = tied(%h)-FETCH('two');
 
 Does the 'right' thing. So it's certainly something in the tie interface.

Well yes, because you're just calling a plain ol' object method and so the
tie doesn't get a chance to work its magic.

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Re: Beer fest beckons

2001-05-24 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 03:28:49PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:

 So I get a call on my mobile in the middle of the beer fest from a
 potential collaborator telling me he can't send me the promised
 documentation due to the fact my inbox has exploded spectacularly
 and exceeded my meagre disk quota.  Given that I'm far too busy drinking
 ale to go and faff around wth the university computing service, I shall
 temporarily unsubscribe.

THere is the option of cadging a shell account off of someone, with 
no fascist disk quota ...

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Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-05-21

2001-05-24 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 06:00:53PM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote:
 Redvers Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
   http://www.maff.gov.uk/animalh/int-trde/misc/foot/flyer.pdf
  
  About that flyer... FMD presents no risks to humans but is a serious
  threat to animal health.
  
  That is not strictly true... FMD is not a threat to animal health,
  the MAFF slaughters are.
 
 Well, up to a point. Dramatic reduction in yield + high chance of
 infertility == significant (indirect) risk to animal's health.

Reduction in yield is not a threat to the animal's health.

The infertility is temporary.

It's interesting that farmers in north wales were getting ten quid a
head for lambs las tyear, but are getting a hundred and twenty quid a
head from the govt when they;re slaughtered now.  Makes you think
doesn't it.  Who has a vested interest in the disease spreading?

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[announce] Tie::Hash::Rank

2001-05-22 Thread David Cantrell

I've just put a complete version of Tie::Hash::Rank on my webshite for
your enjoyment.  I'd be grateful if some of you could download it and
test it before I submit it to CPAN.

  http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/tech/Tie-Hash-Rank-1.0.tar.gz

It has what I hope is a comprehensive test suite anyway, but many eyes
make bugs leap out of the screen and bash me over the head :-)

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Re: [announce] Tie::Hash::Rank

2001-05-22 Thread David Cantrell

On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 10:17:18PM +0200, Marcel Grunauer wrote:

 Looks good. Also works with Attribute::TieClasses (once I had replaced
 the '#!/usr/bin/perl -w' with 'use warnings', mysteriously).

Perhaps because I have a 'no warnings' in T::H::R?

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[announce] Tie::Scalar::Decay v1.1.1

2001-05-21 Thread David Cantrell

I have just uploaded v1.1.1 of Tie::Scalar::Decay which fixes a minor bug
in v1.1.

It was actually a bug in the test suite :-) which was assuming that the
machine running the tests was a RTOS (or at least capable of responding
in near real-time).  Therefore, the final test, which gave sub-second
delays a work-out, has been removed.  I know it works anyway, as the
now-excised fifth test works flawlessly on an otherwise-idle test box.

Anyone got any RT patches for Linux/Sparc? :-)

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Re: TPC talk practice / technical meet

2001-05-21 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 11:34:21PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote:
 Neil Ford sent the following bits through the ether:
 
  Will you be requiring a projector for this?
 
 Yes please! Will you be coming down or can we send someone to borrow
 your projector for the day? ;-)

DAMNIT, will you lot PLEASE stop organising tech meetings for days when
I can't make it!

I'm going to be in Twyford (that's outside the M25, to the west, oo-arr)
recovering from beer-and-punk induced illness.  It's going to be a weird
night.  Some punk, but with a poet and a folk-singer as well.  Hmmm.  Oh,
and I'll be going with a bunch of people who're into medieval battle
re-enactments.  They've promised not to take their broadswords and
pole-axes.

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Activestate and Debian

2001-05-18 Thread David Cantrell

Has anyone tried Activestate's packaged perl 5.6 for Debian?  I wouldn't
normally consider them, but there's no other packaged 5.6 for Debian-
stable.

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Re: [gnat@frii.com: Damian Conway's Exegesis 2]

2001-05-17 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, May 17, 2001 at 01:26:17AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote:

 I tried to use VB once. I kept thinking Why isn't this as good as
 Interface Builder is on NeXTSTEP? Actually, I find myself thinking
 that when I use almost any IDE...

Heh.  Same here, although if you discount Interface Builder, VB is very
good indeed.  I haven't done enough Delphi work to be qualified to talk
about their interface, but first impressions were good.

I like to think of VB and Java as doing the same sort of job. They're
very good for the pretty interface bits, but need a Real Language to do
the real work - C for VB, perl/python/C for Java.

I was, however, thoroughly infuriated by Interface Builder on Mac OS X.
It is not at all obvious how it should work with Project Builder.  I am,
however, more infuriated by OS X itself, and its updates which break
everything.  Grumble. Mutter.

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Re: Latest Perl Journal

2001-05-16 Thread David Cantrell

On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 01:22:52PM +0100, Dean wrote:

 And is this a subscribers copy or one found in the wild?

My copy turned up this morning, so presumably a subscribers copy.

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Re: Enough!

2001-05-15 Thread David Cantrell

On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 09:57:03AM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:

 and before simon gets there:
 
 use Mail::Audit;

Mail::Audit is for *weaklings*.  My first act as Benevolent Dictator will
be to ban it, and mandate procmail.  I have been discussing this with my
soon-to-be-announced Post and Telecoms Advisor, and we are considering
funding the development of a procmail-a-like for snail-mail.  It will be
a delightfully Heath-Robinson mechanical whatsit which will clip on to
the inside of your letter box, and will reject spam with GREAT VENGEANCE
and FURY.

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Re: Enough!

2001-05-15 Thread David Cantrell

On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 12:15:32PM +0100, Martin Ling wrote:

 On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 12:04:24PM +0100, James Powell wrote:
 
  And if it's withheld, answer with a terse message and disconnect.
 
 No; many people withhold automatically, it a legitimate privacy concern. 

And me refusing to answer them is *my* legitimate privacy concern.  I find
that refusing to answer CLID-free calls, and using the answering machine,
is a sufficient procphone.

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Re: Enough!

2001-05-15 Thread David Cantrell

On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 12:38:16PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:

 * Simon Cozens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:

  Now *this* is why I want programmable mobile phones.
 
 nokia 9210

Which is still, AFAIK, unobtainium.

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Re: Enough!

2001-05-15 Thread David Cantrell

On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 01:15:57PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
 On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 12:43:59PM +0100, James Powell wrote:
   No; many people withhold automatically, it a legitimate privacy concern. 
  That's what the terse message is for (reveal yourself, or bugger off).
  I suppose it could go to answerphone.
 
 Caller detect doesn't work for international calls either.

I think this depends on the telcos.  It works perfectly for calls between
Vodafone and whatever GSM provider it is that covers NYC.

Anyway, we accept imperfect mail filtering, we'll accept imperfect phone
filtering.

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Re: Enough!

2001-05-15 Thread David Cantrell

On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 02:08:31PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
 On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 01:38:26PM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
  Ok, so you should have said Caller detect doesn't work for some
  international calls either.
 
 But, you see, if a call ID is withheld, you can't tell whether they're
 international calls with non-working caller detect or domestic calls from
 ex-directory/paranoid numbers. So filtering on withheldness is BAD BAD BAD.

No it's not bad.  They get filtered to the answering machine so I can deal
with them later*.  As far as I'm concerned, it's THEIR FAULT that I can't
id them.  I *really* don't care if their telco is broken.  Everyone who
I can envision needing to talk to me urgently (family, close friends) has
CLID enabled.

* - if I'm filtering.  I'm not filtering at the moment.

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Re: Enough!

2001-05-15 Thread David Cantrell

On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 08:59:32PM +0100, Martin Ling wrote:
 On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 05:43:52PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
  
   nokia 9210
  
  Which is still, AFAIK, unobtainium.
 
 I know someone who knows someone who has a test model - I'll prod on
 programmability.

Greg has (had?) one to play with.  It is programmable.

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Re: BOFHs requiring license

2001-05-14 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 09:51:37AM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:

 Actually, a hereditary democratic

hereditary democratic - an oxymoron, surely.

   chamber such as the (old) house of lords 
 strikes me as being a pretty good system. Swapping 'randomly selected' for 
 hereditary would be a small improvement, possibly. Swapping 'selected by 
 Tony Blair after consultation with his own sycophantic smile' for 
 hereditary strikes me as pretty  stupid, corrupt and evil. Cough.

swapping any politician for Tony Blair likewise.  Random selection for
the upper house seems reasonable.  Of course, just like with jury service,
people would desperately try to get out of it.

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Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

2001-05-14 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:45:45AM +0100, Matthew Jones wrote:

 Part of the reason why they haven't delivered the promises that I think are
 important (decent public services) is because they've hamstrung themselves
 with this clueless tory low-tax approach. I genuinely believe that the
 public are sick of watching the NHS, education system etc wasting away on a
 starvation diet and would be willing to pay a bit of extra tax to make sure
 that their kids can get schooled and that their sick can be healed.

Unfortunately, you have to remember that most people are idiots.  They want
all these services and they might even be willing to have taxes put up to
pay for them *but* they don't want to pay those higher taxes themselves.

This is why we should abolish democracy.

We need a benevolent dictator.  Obviously we can't vote for our dictator
(not only is democracy too flawed, but then it wouldn't be a dictator
either) so I hereby appoint myself.

I appoint Greg as my Culture Adviser and as head of the church.  Any
volunteers for my other minions?  Even if you don't want a cabinet
post, please feel free to volunteer as a Henchman.  You'll get 25 days
holiday a year, a nice uniform and a free Hench.

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Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

2001-05-14 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 11:44:11AM +0100, Matthew Jones wrote:

 The tories are going to have low tax and pay for improved public services
 through cracking down on benefit fraud, apparently. Gah, if only someone
 had thought of that before. 'Cos you can solve a long-term underfunding
 problem by skinting out a few dodgy crusties.

You're forgetting that the Tories tried (and failed) to crack down on
benefit fraud for ten years.  That therefore makes them ideally suited
to trying again.  They learnt from their mistakes, right?

Surely they're not s stupid as to *not* learn from their mistakes?
And they do have proof that there really is that much 'benefit fraud'
out there?  There must be a good reason for them to have never shown
this proof to anyone else, right?

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Re: BOFHs requiring license

2001-05-14 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:37:23AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:

 Oh, and Churchill was an arsehole. As the population worked out in the 1945
 General Election. Anyone responding with nonsense about him winning the
 second world war will be given a history lesson :)

Isn't it interesting that Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, de Gaulle and
Churchill were all 'charismatic' leaders.

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Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

2001-05-14 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:11:13PM +, Steve Mynott wrote:

 Well one advantage of BP or Shell is if you don't like either company
 then you can simply choose not to purchase their products.

So how, pray, do I opt out of the international oil companies' cartel?

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Re: BOFHs requiring license

2001-05-14 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:11:30PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:

 David Cantrell wrote:
 
  Isn't it interesting that Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, de Gaulle and
  Churchill were all 'charismatic' leaders.
 
 Hmmm... As were Svein Forkbeard, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar,
 Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, Alfred the Great, Tokugawa, ...
 
 Hey - I know this is a bit wild, but maybe there's some kind of
 connection between 'charisma' and 'leadership'...

As I think you realised, I didn't meant the usual sort of charisma.  I
mean more along the lines of those 'charismatic' evangelist churches and
other religious cults.

Judged by those standards, Alexander, Julius Caesar and Alfred the Great
don't count.  I don't know enough about the others to be able to form an
opinion.

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Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

2001-05-14 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:05:06PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
 On Mon, 14 May 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
  On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 12:11:13PM +, Steve Mynott wrote:
   Well one advantage of BP or Shell is if you don't like either company
   then you can simply choose not to purchase their products.
  So how, pray, do I opt out of the international oil companies' cartel?
 
 use the tube and electric trains? Most power stations aren't oil fired
 AFAIK.

Right, and how do I eliminate plastics from my life?  And drugs, and all
the other million and one things which are made with their products?  How
do I get home after the trains have stopped?

And how do I ensure that my privately run waste disposal service doesn't
use them?  Or my childrens' privately run school?

In summary - libertarians' claims that customers can choose not to use
$company's products if they dislike the company are patently absurd.

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Re: OT - Perl

2001-05-14 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:29:41AM -0500, will wrote:

 Has anyone seen some perl around here?  I thought I saw some earlier but it
 sems to have gone now :-)

I think I saw perl last week, but it got miffed at the lack of camel
action and went home.

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Cult leaders (was: a subject line with no relevance to what was being discussed)

2001-05-14 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 03:22:25PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:

Perhaps the difference between your 
 set of leaders and mine, is that the ones you mentioned all had personality 
 cults to a degree, although in the case of Churchill I wouldn't have said 
 so.

There certainly seems to be one around his memory now :-(  And of the ones
I listed, I would have thought de Gaulle was far weaker than Churchill in
the personality-cult stakes.

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Re: like a phoenix from the flames

2001-05-14 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:35:44PM +0100, Natalie Ford wrote:
 At 09:58 14/05/01, James Powell wrote:
 The Perl Journal arrived this morning...
 
 Mine too!  You read Dave's article and the credits at the end of Damian's? :)

It will come as no surprise to any of yhou that mine hasn't arrived :-)

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Re: BOFHs requiring license

2001-05-13 Thread David Cantrell

On Sun, May 13, 2001 at 03:45:21PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote:

 But given that the Socialist Alliance are only standing in ~100 
 constituencies, there doesn't seem to be any credible alternative.

http://www.socialistalliance.net/constituencies/constitlist.htm for the
complete list.

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Re: BOFHs requiring license

2001-05-13 Thread David Cantrell

On Sun, May 13, 2001 at 05:22:49PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:

 ok i reserve the right to quit this thread at any time, however 

 But hasn't `new' labour's example shown that there is no place for
 socialism in modern government? Hasn't their move to capitalism been
 really a well spun admission of defeat? How can any socialist not
 feel that when it came to the crunch socialism was rejected by
 intelligent people who understood its principals and benefits
 intimitadly because they could see it would not work for modern
 Britain?

Alternatively ... the Labour Party is not and never has been socialist,
but they at least used to embrace some of the same policies as socialists
do.  Being in reality just another form of Social Democratic party, they
decided that it was in their best interests to pander to the dribbling
morons who believe what they read in the tabloid press, and so ditched
any remaining hints of socialism and became just another Tory party*.
Although without such a witless and ineffectual leader.

I have no intention of voting for Bliar or for Vague.  If there were a
party standing here on a platform of devolution/independence (such as an
alliance of the SNP, Plaid Cymru, and some (currently non-existent)
English equivalent, they'd get my vote.  Do the Lib Dems think along
these lines?  No-one knows cos the LDs have never seemed to have any
policies ever.

* - although clearly not quite as evil as the real thing.

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Re: see attachment

2001-05-12 Thread David Cantrell

On Sat, May 12, 2001 at 11:49:05AM -0400, Alex Page wrote:

 How about a movie set in a post-holocaustic London where the
 surviving Perl Mongers are desperately trying to survive against
 the hordes of radiation-addled Java Zombies, and locate the few
 remaining stashes of beer and bandwidth?

Evil Dead - the Language of Darkness.

 Or some kind of bizzaro martial arts fest pitching the Heretics
 against the True London.pm'ers (tm)...

And has someone stolen our Illustrious Leader's Secret Manual?

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Re: Bah!

2001-05-10 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 10:54:04AM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:

 David Cantrell wrote:
  http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/cv
 
 I was going to post I can't open that in Microsoft Word; please re-send it
 as a joke, but when I tried to open the PDF version using the Acrobat
 plug-in in Netscape, I got an internal error occurred and some of the
 letters were missing.

Serves you right for not getting the raw Postscript :-)

I've put plain-text and HTML versions up as well now.  Bow down before
the awesome power of TeX!

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Re: Bah!

2001-05-10 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:22:45AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:

 Do you write it in raw Tex/LaTeX, or do you generate that from some other
 format (like, perhaps, XML)? I'd be interested in seeing the intermediate
 stages.

Ahh, now that would be telling :-)

Oh alright then, I used lyx to generate the outline - getting all the
headers and tables sorted, then exported as LaTeX and edited from there.

thinks has anyone done TeX goodness with Template Toolkit?

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Re: Bah!

2001-05-10 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:22:47AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:

 I find that pdftotext (part of xpdf) does a remarkably good job of
 letting you know what a pdf file has to say, without bothering with all
 that tedious formatting... ;-)

I particularly like the way it turns 'film-making' into '[greek-pi]-making'.

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Re: Bah!

2001-05-10 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 01:05:19PM +0100, Steve Keay wrote:
 On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 05:04:23PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
  I've been made redundant.  Anyone want an Evil Programmer?
  
  http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/cv
 
 funky server set up:
 
   [steve@webcache steve]$ telnet www.cantrell.org.uk 80 
   Trying 195.149.50.61...
   Connected to plough.barnyard.co.uk.
   Escape character is '^]'.
   GET /david/cv/cv.pdf HTTP/1.0
 
   HTTP/1.1 404 Complete fuckup

Yes, you did fuck up :-)

It's cv20010510.pdf.  I s'pose I should update my funky-skillo redirection
thing.  Thanks for the reminder.

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Re: Bah!

2001-05-10 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 01:38:10PM +0100, Robert Price wrote in response
to little ol' me:

 It's cv20010510.pdf.  I s'pose I should update my funky-skillo redirection
 thing.  
 
 I must remember to start calling symlinks that. It sounds far more
 impressive.

Naah, it's not just a symlink.  I have a custom 404 handler which looks
for pages similar to what you asked for based on a small database of
things which may have changed.  I haven't updated it recently, but will
do.  I'll make it so that requests for .../cv.foo get translated to
.../cv[latest-version].foo.

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Re: Bah!

2001-05-10 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 01:43:39PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
 At 13:37 10/05/01 +0100, you wrote:
 
 Naah, it's not just a symlink.  I have a custom 404 handler which looks
 for pages similar to what you asked for based on a small database of
 things which may have changed.  I haven't updated it recently, but will
 do.  I'll make it so that requests for .../cv.foo get translated to
 .../cv[latest-version].foo.
 
 HTTP::Approx anyone?

OK, maybe I *won't* do that then :-)

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Re: O Brother (was Re: Buffy musings ...)

2001-05-09 Thread David Cantrell

On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 03:42:49PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:

 * Nathan Torkington ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 
  Ob Porn: You can see a nipple and curve of a breast through a wet
  shirt if you look in the right place.
 
 This is exactly the sort of thing that gives London.pm a bad name,

I have to agree.  It's *disgusting* that someone could possibly think that
that is pornographic.

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[OT] Anyone want a Defender?

2001-05-04 Thread David Cantrell

I've got bored with my Defender, so am selling it.  Anyone interested?

ObLondon.pm: defender beats watching buffy on the stupid-box any day of
the week.

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Re: cocktails

2001-05-03 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 09:25:16PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote:

 Oh, and I'm feeling generous, so I'll buy a drink for the first person
 to place the quote in my .signature ;-) Now if only I could find a
 copy of this...
 
 ... Did you know there's a guy living in our closet?

Real Genius.

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Re: Stuffed camel

2001-05-02 Thread David Cantrell

On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 10:00:44AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 
 As a side note, when we do get it together, would it be alright to come
 along as an ordinary paying zoo entrant?  Or does being a camelite
 confer extraordinary priviliges within the confines of the zoo?

Yes, we get to ride the camel and take it to conferences!  

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Re: Not Matt's Scripts

2001-05-02 Thread David Cantrell

On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 12:22:39PM +0100, Simon Batistoni wrote:

 Of course, this comes back to the fact that the user will need to have
 control of/know where the NT mailer exists, but I believe most NT hosting
 services do install blat, and tell people where it is.

If the purpose of this is to make it utterly drool-proof, then why not
re-write File::Find (can't make them install it of course, that would be
expecting too much) so that it finds their mailer for them.  We'd have to
re-write Digest::MD5 too, so that we could compare the found file with
a signature just in case someone has been messing with filenames.
Wouldn't want to accidentally start Back Orifice instead of blat.

Yeah, silly isn't it.  That's what happens when you aim for the lowest
common denominator.

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Re: US$ bank account

2001-04-30 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 10:03:12AM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:

 Anyone know of a bank that will let non US residents have a workable
 US$ account with dollar credit card and check (narf) book?

Pretty nearly any UK high st bank will open accounts in funny money.
There's usually a minimum balance, but US$10K just sounds silly.

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Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:21:35AM +0100, Roger Burton West wrote:
 On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:33:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 actually .. nutscrape under Linux annoys me when it insists on looking up
 a hostname no matter how hard you click on the stop button .. bad
 threading.
 
 Excellent reason to use a proxy. Junkbuster's good...

Junkbuster++

I don't use it for busting junk, but because I can quickly and easily change
its settings with a shell script, instead of having to fuck around in
Netscape's menus to change proxies.  I really just use it as a mere proxy,
either going straight to the rest of the net or via ssh port forwarding to
another proxy elsewhere.

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Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)

2001-04-27 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:50:50PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:

 Long dark hair, ankhs and beer - the Egyptions were the original goths.

Hmmph.  Goths wouldn't know good beer if it grabbed them by the goolies
and swung them round over its head whilst shouting I'm good beer, I'm
good beer, and if you disagree I'll cut your head off and shit down your
neck

Anyway, what the Egyptians brewed was barely recognisable as beer.

-- 
David Cantrell, Drunk, and blaming Earle off of (void).



Boozers in Dublin

2001-04-27 Thread David Cantrell

Can any of you boozy reprobates recommend a boozer in Dublin for a geeky
piss-up?

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 PGP signature


Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:26:04PM -0400, David H. Adler wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:25:23PM +0100, Barbie wrote:
  
  I always knew Manchester was the centre of the Universe.
 
 Ahem.
 
 I suggest you go look at the entry for NY.pm at
 http://www.pm.org/groups/north_america.shtml :-)

Yes yes, that's OK.  We'll permit the colonials to have their little
delusions.

We all know that The Bronze is the centre of the universe.

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Re: DBD::*-bind_param() ?

2001-04-27 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:16:32PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:45:40AM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote:
  It helps a lot (and is also blindingly easy to benchmark yourself ;-).
 
 Clearly says someone who's hasn't installed Oracle recently!

Does anyone?  Every time I've used Oracle, it's been installed by someone
else who was supposedly an expert.  Although I remain to be convinced that
any of them really *was* an expert.

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Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 06:52:59PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
 On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:31:31AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 
  http://www.flemingbank.com/
  
  crap website, but I think it sums em up.
 
 Yep, so crap that it gives nothing but a splash screen with no links on it
 whatsoever.  If that sums them up, then I want nothing to do with such
 manifest incompetence.

And [EMAIL PROTECTED] bounces.  Oh dear.

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Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 07:13:50PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote:
  On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:31:31AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
  
   http://www.flemingbank.com/
   
   crap website, but I think it sums em up.
  
  Yep, so crap that it gives nothing but a splash screen with no links on it
  whatsoever.  If that sums them up, then I want nothing to do with such
  manifest incompetence.
 
 well apart from a crap website, they are a good very bank ...  personally
 I'd rather they put their efforts into banking rather than web design ...
 its just a fad after all.

Yeah, but only testing it on one browser, ignoring the - what, 30%? - that
don't use IE - that's kinda silly.  And unprofessional.  Sure, the bank
no doubt subcontracted the work to some numijahors, but that they accepted
and launched it like that does raise concerns about their quality control.

I did go on to look at it using IE, for I know that first impressions can
be misleading, and the site still sucks - it's hard to find any way of
getting feedback to them electronically, for example - but if using IE, it
doesn't suck much more than any other corporate site.

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Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:31:31AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:

 http://www.flemingbank.com/
 
 crap website, but I think it sums em up.

Yep, so crap that it gives nothing but a splash screen with no links on it
whatsoever.  If that sums them up, then I want nothing to do with such
manifest incompetence.

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Re: MySQL - Oracle wrapper/compat. libs

2001-04-25 Thread David Cantrell

On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 04:27:42PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 12:28:42PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
  Don't forget that even if you could automatically change the API over,
  you'd still have to change all the SQL in the API as well.  Which is
  probably just as difficult a task, given how much SQL can vary from
  product to product...
 
 IME, the SQL only significantly varies when you're doing the kind of
 SQL that could earn you a serious DBA label or you're working in a
 bank. MySQL has fairly limited SQL capabilities which mapping onto
 Oracle shouldn't be hard. The reverse obviously isn't true.

Trouble is, they all have non-standard extensions, which are *really* handy
and which you *will* use if you don't know any better.  For example, MySQL
has AUTO_INCREMENT fields which are dead useful for id fields; the closest
Oracle equivalent would be using a sequence.

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Re: MySQL - Oracle wrapper/compat. libs

2001-04-25 Thread David Cantrell

On Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 12:50:05PM +0100, Mark Fowler wrote:
 On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
 
  Trouble is, they all have non-standard extensions, which are *really* handy
  and which you *will* use if you don't know any better.  For example, MySQL
  has AUTO_INCREMENT fields which are dead useful for id fields; the closest
  Oracle equivalent would be using a sequence.
 
 Why you say don't know better, what should I use instead of this.

The portable way to do it is the slow way.  That's why the vendors went
and extended the language.  The real problem is that they generally don't
document very well what's standard and what's proprietary, so you need to
be familiar with at least a couple of rdbms's to know what's what.

TBH though, I would use postgresql instead of mysql anyway.  It's far more
capable, but is also closer to the Oracle way of doing things.

Is
 there any sensible way to do this in bog standard SQL that won't have a
 massive perfomance hit on mysql?

Unfortunately no.  You'd have to:
  LOCK the table
  SELECT the maximum id currently in use and add one
  INSERT with that id
  UNLOCK the table
so all your other queries will block until the table is unlocked.

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Re: More Natives

2001-04-23 Thread David Cantrell

On Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 02:22:45PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 * Marcel Grunauer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
   Data munging--- bah. Munging? If you note AOL dictionary... The only
   definition is for mung bean.
  
  Maybe this just says something about the AOL dictionary.
  
 
 /me throws his copy of the OED in the bin, favouring the much more
 31337 AOL dictionary. [1]

/me had to look something up in a dictionary last night, and was not at
all impressed when not only did the OED not have the information I was
after (I wanted the Latin name of a particular plant) - it didn't have
the flipping thing at all!

OK, this was the CD version, so at only 650Mb it can't be as comprehensive
as the seventeen ton four mile long Real Thing, but it's a reasonably
common word and bloody well should have been in there.

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Re: [OT] Flecktones in London next month

2001-04-20 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 04:04:55PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, you wrote:
   They have *the* best electric bass player
  in the entire world, 
 
 ummm ... correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that honour bestowed on
 Norman Watt Roy ?

Clive off of (void) told me to mention Billy Sheehan, Stu Hamm and
Jaco Pastorius and see what happened :-)

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Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-19 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 10:29:03AM +0100, Jon Galliers wrote:
 I know you're all probably bored with this, but I was even more bored and 
 checked out the site further
 
  (Although "Chris"'s website http://storedscripts.virtualave.net/ is quite,
  um, entertaining ...)
 
 Not bad for a 13 year old though

Hmmm ... if 'not working at all' is the same as 'not bad'.  All I get is
the title image.

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Re: Komodo

2001-04-19 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 10:56:51AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote:
 Paul Mison [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  You also get ProjectBuilder IDE.
  
  http://developer.apple.com/tools/projectbuilder/
 
 Which is very nice. Or at least it was, back when it was NeXTSTEP. 

I had a little play with it last night, and it's still not bad.  Only
supports C/C++/Java though.  I can't figger out how to get the Interface
Builder to work with my project, so will have to read the docs.

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Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-19 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 11:26:52AM +0100, Jonathan Stowe wrote:

   "And I can program better than you any day of the week. Bring it on if
   you want a challange. I will totally blow you and any supporter away
   in a programming match."
 
 I think I should take him up on it - who said life was fair :)

Can I be the impartial adjudicator?  Oh please!

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Re: Beginners Guide

2001-04-19 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:06:02PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:

 hard to say [BBC channels] are normally given free if you subscribe to one
 premier channel

If your telly has a built-in digital decoder, then the BBC channels will
be free, and you won't need cable or a satellite dish.

IANABBCE and IANADTVE

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Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread David Cantrell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 02:59:51AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:

 On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:52:58AM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:

  No, I mean "unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system
  which, despite us only supporting a limited number of systems to make it
 
 This is specious. The ad is running for an iMac, whose OS is 9.1.

The iMac is one of the platforms supported by OS X.

In fact, CD burning doesn't work under OS X on *any* machine and isn't
shipped pre-installed on any machine, so by your argument, it is wrong to
complain about it being non-functional anywhere.  That doesn't make sense
to me.

  easier for us to write all the drivers etc, we still couldn't be arsed
  to complete".
 
 Who said "release early, release often". Apple are doing the right
 thing, IMO.

When I release early, release often, I don't expect people to pay for the
privelege.

I knew when OS X was originally released that it lacked CDRW support,
and I didn't complain (much).  However, that it *still* lacks it is
inexcusable.

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Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread David Cantrell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 03:58:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:

 Anyway, I thought all this stuff about non-standard kinds of Win32 Perl was
 sorted out years ago. Activestate Perl is the same as anyone else's Perl,
 shurely?

It's more because I have a nicely working perl installation right here,
which sits happily in my system's package management system, and I'm not
going to mess with it without a *really* good reason.  I also refuse to
let myself be led down a route which may restrict my ability to upgrade
easily in the future.  I just did 'sudo rpm -Uvh perl*.rpm' and went from
5.6.0 to 5.6.1, with not a single problem.  I doubt it'll be that easy
with Activestate and I don't want to find out the hard way that it isn't.
They *must* work with any old perl distro (of the right version, of course)
or even one that $user has compiled from sources, if they are to be taken
seriously.

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Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread David Cantrell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:

 * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  
  http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453
  
 
 JS! stop it i'm replying!

LOL at Greg's post.

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Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread David Cantrell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:20:51PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote:

 bk:http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=bk
 Chris: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=chris

ROFLMAO!

and for your edification, 'chris' just wrote in reply to jns:

" And I can program better than you any day of the week. Bring it on if
  you want a challange. I will totally blow you and any supporter away
  in a programming match. "

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Re: The Natives are Revolting

2001-04-18 Thread David Cantrell

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:55:20PM +0100, Neil Ford wrote:

 One does have to wonder about someone called [EMAIL PROTECTED] :-)
 Kinda say's it all

Yeah, psy-cop I can understand, but what on earth is rograming, and why
would he want to do it to psy-cops?

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