Re: YAPC::Europe

2001-06-15 Thread Dean

On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 06:56:35PM +, Redvers Davies wrote:
 Plane tickets are currently 37 quid return via easyjet...

Are there any plans for a group of London PMer's to fly over together or is
the whole thing going to be ad hoc? 

I know i asked this before but with the success of the NY trip i was hoping
someone would be feeling ambitious and volenter... (Although i worked at 
Oven and hence can't organize a pissup in a brewery :))

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



LCN supplementary

2001-06-15 Thread Dean

Welcome to a supplementary issue of the LCN for the month of June.
This post contains details that have changed or been announced since the
June LCN that was dispatched at (gasp) the start of June.

The User Groups:
---

GLLUG
Home Page: http://gllug.linux.co.uk/
 
Greater London Linux User Group's (GLLUG) purpose is to bring together
London's Linux users so they can share experiences and expertise (or
revel in their inexperience and quest for expertise), to chat about
the state of the (Linux) world, that sort of thing.
 
We try to arrange meets so that there is space for users to set up
their equipment, so you are welcome to bring your kit along, either to
go through the problems you are having or just to show off what you
are up to.

Next GLLUG (Greater London Linux User Group) will be at the same place
(FrameStore) CFC Preview Theatre, 19-23 Wells St., London W1, on
23/06/01 Starting at 1pm and ending at 6pm.
 
We have three talks:
 
Mike Brodbelt
 
A discussion of mail systems, with particular reference to IMAP server
implementations, and the advantages of using IMAP solutions. Technical
detail on the specifics of an IMAP implementation using the Cyrus IMAP
server.
 
Richard Cohen
 
Introduction to the Shell:
Aimed at people who are either new to Linux, or who have spent most of
their time in graphical environments. An attempt to introduce people to
the richness and power of the Linux and Unix shell, and some of the more
useful standard tools.  Lots of examples, both useful and silly.
 
Simon Trimmer
 
An Introduction to Linux Kernel Debugging:
A practical talk with information and techniques targeted at the mid
range of Linux experience (i.e. comfortable systems administrator
through to beginner developer). The talk will cover the basics and probe
some more advanced areas of kernel debugging, in particular exploring
the types of crashes/lockups with methods for diagnosing problems. 
There are no formalities to attending a GLLUG meeting, no subscription
or entry fees, you can just turn up on the day. We welcome and
encourage new and inexperienced users, young and old.

The GLLUG venue this month is an indoor private preview Theatre owned by
CFC and Framestore and once again our thanks go out for letting us use it
for the day.

---
London Perl Mongers
Home Page: http://www.london.pm.org
Contact Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
London PM are a group who are dedicated to the encouragement of all things
Perl-like in London.
 
The technical meeting is on the 21/06/01 and is being held once more at the
very kind and understanding State51.


Outside London Events:
---
YAPC::Europe:
YAPC is yet another Perl conference, with apologies to The Perl
Conference. This is an inexpensive, grassroots Perl conference with its
roots in the Perl Mongers Perl users groups, and is supported by Yet
Another Society.
 
This years conference is Thursday, 02/08/2001 -- 04/08/2001 and is located
in Amsterdam. More details can be found here:
http://www.yapc.org/Europe/

The conference registration has now opened and tickets are available (While
stocks last) so make sure you don't wait too long. I don't know of any
plans to send a London delegation (ala last years OSDEM) so make your
plans quick :)


UKUUG Linux Developers' Conference:
This is on 29 June - 1 July 2001. It looks like one of the most fun
events this year and with the list of speakers attending it should be on
your essential list.
http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2001/ 

Today is the last day to get a discount on entry fees so don't forget.

Other Stuff:
--- 

London Geeknic
John Spare time Hearns has bravely organised the first London
Geeknic for this weekend. Expect much humour, laptops and coders bursting
into dust under the rays of the day star.

What - the Geeknic is a Geek Picnic.
Date - Sunday 17th June
Time - 12:30  onwards

Place - General Wolff's Statue, adjacent to the Observatory, Greenwich
Park (this is a terrace overlooking London, right next to the one o'clock
time signal)

Bring - picnic food, cool drinks, and lashings of ginger beer Plus sun screen
and hats (ha! bet it rains)

Activities - bring frisbees, softball, kites, nerf guns and any other
fun things to do.

Alternate activities - there is a craft market in Greenwich, and nice
restaurants and pubs for later on.

Computing - palmtops and laptops OK, but these shouldn't form the focus
of the day. I may well have a car there, so we could consider hauling
in a power supply.

How to find us - follow the sign of the Inflatable Penguin
(seriously though, we should be in the vicinity of the observatory. IT
won't be too hard to spot a bunch of geeks and inflatable penguins in
Greenwich Park)

(Thanks to SuSE for a six foot inflatable penguin!)

--- 

HTH and can someone bring a football to the geeknic...

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one

Re: Religion (was Re: M$ SQueaLServer)

2001-06-08 Thread Dean

On Fri, Jun 08, 2001 at 10:11:13AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:

 Well here are some reasons why i prefer UNIX to Windows * for servers,

I'm going to play devils advocate. I've been using Win2k for the last four
months and have a basic grasp of it. Its difficult because i agree with a
lot of your comments.

 * MSDN
 
   Ok, I've just checked and it appears that more information is now
   available on the web for free, but it wasn't like this a while ago.

No it wasn't, Microsoft are learning. Its taking a bloody long time but
they are learning.
 
   There is entirely to much DLL upgrading for my liking at every possible
   chance with Windows software/service pack. I don't believe that this can
   really lead to a stable system.

Win2k address a lot of these issues with its dll and system file control 
programs. If you change a dll that's needed and the replacement dll
doesn't work then the change gets tagged as a failure and rolled back by
the system. It seems to work reasonably well, we've had no major dll screw
ups.
 
   I want the servers to look different from the desktops, I don't want

Er... I have a Linux box on my desk and we use a number of Win2k servers...
mine does look different ;)

 * No compiler
 
   Why can't there be a compiler? Please just a simple one, so that if
   i want to write some little program for myself I can do it there and
   then. Its not that much to ask, it would just mean that when you get
   a fresh windows box you dont have to go and waste time installing
   additional software, and there are other examples of this ...

(You said this is about servers) 
Compilers on servers are a bad idea both from the security perspective
and from a stability angle. I don't care how good a coder you are, your
not writing code on the server. In a real production environment you need to
test it and do change control. I have an issue with this since i got a
phone call at 3am this morning after someone did just this.

I only leave an interpreter on servers for my own convenience and even then
i shouldn't. Of course if your server runs an interpreted language then yes
you need it :)

   Editor
Wordpad :)

   Scripting language
Windows scripting host can be installed when Win2k is. It handles jscript,
vbs and can do perl python and rexx. You also have batch which is starting
to become impressive on its own.

   Cron
The at command or the task scheduler.

 * Final reason (for now)
   I don't trust them. 

Agreed.

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: [OT] BUFFY No spoilers

2001-06-04 Thread Dean

On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 09:29:14AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 ah well, we can probably also expect The Rock from WWF
 to show up and lay the smack down on some vamps, also 
 expect to here plans for a BtVS movie as well, so they
 can get use out of the sets one more time.

The movie has been in the planning for a while now, the main bad guy has
been rumoured to be the Ultimate Evil from the Buffy Xmas episode where
Angels tries to kill himself (in series three.)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Decompression

2001-06-01 Thread Dean S Wilson

-Original Message-
From: Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Umm, *strokes beard* by archive you mean tar file, right?  If so then
Archive::Tar looks likely, and it even automagically deals with .gz


This does exactly what I wanted, a pint is yours at the next meeting!


files via Compress::Zlib (or so it says in the readme)
It does as well, this should save a lot of grief.

No non-core modules though?  Can't you just create a local lib path
with Archive::Tar in it and say you didn't cheat?


If I can't get the module on the server then I guess I'll have to be
inventive and just add the whole module to my script ;)

And now back to your scheduled Buffy discussion.
Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon






LCN June

2001-06-01 Thread Dean
 have been announced yet this month but you can look for
details here http://www.freebsd-uk.eu.org/meetings.html


Outside London Events:
---

UKUUG Linux Developers' Conference:
This is on 29 June - 1 July 2001. It looks like one of the most fun
events this year and with the list of speakers attending it should be on
your essential list.
http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2001/   


YAPC::Europe:
YAPC is yet another Perl conference, with apologies to The Perl
Conference. This is an inexpensive, grassroots Perl conference with its
roots in the Perl Mongers Perl users groups, and is supported by Yet
Another Society.

This years conference is Thursday, 02/08/2001 -- 04/08/2001 and is located
in Amsterdam. More details can be found here:
http://www.yapc.org/Europe/


Other Stuff:
---

Event Calendar:
Alasdair Kergon has come up with an essential resource for events all
around the country (And abroad!) If you have anything you'd like to get
added then you can speak to him at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.oxlug.org/majorevents.html

---
Community Recognition:
In this section I'd like to include people or companies that have
contributed or helped one or more of the user groups in some way. A
lot of people quietly contribute time, money or effort and get no
recognition for it. This month I'd like to thank:

Veritas (Again) www.veritas.com
Veritas have once again earned the gratitude of GLLUG by going for the
stomach and sponsoring ANOTHER meal after a GLLUG event. Thanks go out
from all of us, especially the owner of the restaurant.

Computer Film Company  Framestore (www.framestore.co.uk)
These two very generous companies allowed GLLUG to use one of their 
private cinema's for a GLLUG technical event. Possibly one of the most
impressive meetings to date. 

State 51 (www.state51.co.uk)
State 51 have hosted a barrage of London PM Technical meetings with a 
smile, a lot of floor space and a ready beer. Nothing more could be asked
for.

Sun (Have a guess)
Sun have covered the venue cost of multiple GLLUG meetings over the last
year and almost no-one knew. Add this to the fact that they employ Richard
Cohen, who's heavily involved in running GLLUG and a frequent speaker we
have a major contributor. And I'm almost willing to forgive them for Java ;)

Turtle Networks (www.turtle.net)
Turtle have the thankless (and difficult) job of organizing Lonix every
month and making sure that everyone has a hangover the day after. Add this
to their recent GNU/Linux installfests and you have a community devoted
company.

Conway Hall
Merijn Broeren, Mike Davis, Paul Mison and Andy Williams dug deep into
their own pockets and stumped up the cost of the venue for Damian Conways
talk in London about Quantum::Superpositions and maintenance coding, or
Acme::Bleach as its now known.

---
Any comments (Good or bad), suggestions of groups to add or ideas for
recognition of services to London Community groups are welcome at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

If your a member of one of the groups i spoke to after the last edition of
this many moons ago please drop me a note to get added.

Remember use Buffy;
(http://search.cpan.org/search?mode=modulequery=Buffy)

   Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon
All views in the above are my own.



Re: LCN June

2001-06-01 Thread Dean

On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 02:20:56PM +0100, alex wrote:
  Lonix
  Date: Wednesday 6th June at 6.00pm.

 hasn't this been postponed?

Oh yes. I got a note last night confirming the date and then today i get one
telling me its moved.[0]

The venue and everything will be the same but the date is changing. I'll do
another LCN later this month when things are a bit firmer for:
PM Tech meeting.
PM Social.
GLLUG.
Lonix.

Only one that's done and dusted seems to be SAGE-WISE (Fingers crossed)

Dean

[0] This is one of the reasons i stopped doing this. No one knows when
stuffs happening that far in advance... Herding cats spring to mind ;)

-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: crazy golf

2001-06-01 Thread Dean

On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 03:28:43PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
 So *that's* the secret to your boyish good looks Dave! I knew there had
 to be *something* good about contracting :-)

That and getting to drain the life out of the permanent staff ;)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: [PUB] Possible candidate

2001-05-31 Thread Dean

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 11:03:54AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
  I like PO a lot.

I can agree with this. Central, nice food, holds a lot of people.

Only problem i have with the place is that when we get seated in a corner
anyone who turns up late ends up sitting on another table. Its not a major
problem but its a bit disheartening to people turning up for the first time
when they get sat on the edge of a table away from the crowd.

 but now the summer is coming, aren't you tempted by long nights by
 the river?

Nope. I dislike having chunks bitten out of me.
Then again i shouldn't sit next to Cantrell i suppose ;)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Windows Perl - how?

2001-05-31 Thread Dean

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 12:37:22PM +0100, Mark Fowler wrote:
 I head off to the activestate page and download the MSI for the latest
 build.  My question is...how do I install this?  I can't find the MSI
 installer anywhere on their site.

What version of Windows is it? 2000, ME and the newer ones have it built
in. NT, 95 and 98 can have it bolted on
 
 I seem to remember downloading an .exe last week (which I no longer have
 and no longer seems to be where it was on thier site.)  Are they randomly
 switching between MSI and .exe and haven't bothered to upload the
 installer when they switched back.

If you go here:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/ActivePerl/

And click the AS Package link. This will give you Perl and options to get
the MSI installer for your version of Windows.

HTH
Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Decompression

2001-05-31 Thread Dean

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 06:56:21PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
  Also for future reference does any one know a better way to do this than
  Compress::Zlib, core or non-core.
 
 I suppose 
 # tar -xzf [archivename] [filename/that/you.want] 
 
 is too easy .. I'm missing something again aren't I?

Sorry, my bad. I'd like to be able to do the whole thing without shelling
out. I'm currently using something similar your example in the script and
it works but I'd rather use something in perl so i don't have to worry
about external locations or even OS (Zlib should work on Windows. I think)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Y::E accomodation

2001-05-30 Thread Dean

On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 12:53:00PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 we were just talking on IRC and the subject of accomodation for YAPC::Europe
 came up again, 

For those of us without the time for both the List and the IRC channel is
there any chance of a summery about what the group plans are? Or is it a free
for all?

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Decisions decisions

2001-05-25 Thread Dean

On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 02:51:44PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 No! Remind me of some of the reasons you wanted to get rid of
 the defender machine? I'm sure one of them was lack of space
 in Cantrell mansions.

Ignore the heretic and his shouts of compare! swap! Embrace the
siren call of the hardware.

Or get an emulator and save on aircon... :)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Buffy gear

2001-05-23 Thread Dean

On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 07:18:23PM +0100, Barry Pretsell wrote:
 QVC are selling lots of Buffy gear, tune into QVC now, or check out the wbesite

Charisma Carpenter 'Cordelia' Signed Photo £64...

Now i'm scared...

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?

2001-05-19 Thread Dean S Wilson





-Original Message-From: 
Barry Pretsell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I'm interested to know if anyone uses 
Safari to read O'Reilly books online.
http://safari1.oreilly.com/tablhom.asp?home

It sounds like a good idea (must be better 
than having 3 editions of Programming Perl) and I'm tempted to give it a go, 
so any Safari subscribers out there with an opinion?

I've not started using it yet but I'll admit 
to being very tempted on a couple of occasions (When I need the cookbook and 
my CD's at home mostly) the only real thing putting me off is the need to be 
constantly on-line. I do a lot of my work on my laptop with no network 
connections so I don't get distracted by things like e-mail and I'd like a 
local copy, you could write a slow crawler to make up for this but that 
sorta breaks the spirit of it and I imagine Nat not being too happy with me 
;)

I was impressed by the Manning way of 
letting me download a PDF of the book, it makes my life easier since I can 
use it off line. On the other hand I thought Manning would have released 
their back catalogue in ebook as well as they have a very limited selection 
at the moment.

I suppose the issue with books as PDF is that it leaves 
you wide open to rampant copying... Although you could slow crawl safari and 
zip 'em up.

 Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers 
understand. --- Anon


Re: pc components

2001-05-17 Thread Dean S Wilson

-Original Message-
From: Simon Cozens [EMAIL PROTECTED]


My motherboard from Dabs has spent two days awaiting credit card
clearance
and two days awaiting despatch. It *is* in stock, it's just taking
them
four days - and counting - to get around to shipping it.


If your in London then forget mail order and go to TCR on a Saturday,
you get to take home what you pay for and with the drop in spending
lately its getting easier to haggle the price down.

And afterwards you can come to one of the almost weekly geek meets in
a nearby pub.

Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon






Re: pc components

2001-05-17 Thread Dean S Wilson

-Original Message-

From: Jonathan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]


At 14:48 17/05/01 +0100, Dean wrote:

If your in London then forget mail order and go to TCR on a
Saturday,
you get to take home what you pay for and with the drop in spending
lately its getting easier to haggle the price down.

Are you refering to the 'computer fair' or just TCR in general?
Both to a degree. From the shops I've been in recently it seems that
they are more willing to drop the price a bit than see you go to one
of the fairs. For once the consumers the winner.

The fairs do a more mixed selection of stuff than the shops do, where
you go depends on what your looking for.

Also, if any London person is unaware of it, the shop CEX (Computer
EXchange) on TCR (just north of Goddge St Stn) sells excellent 2nd
hand
hardware, are very knowledgeable, will accept returns with no hassle,
and
have never let me down etc etc etc.

And they do a nice selection of cheep DVD's.


Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon





The scary man...

2001-05-16 Thread Dean

Some interesting stuff:
http://www.perl.com/pub/2001/05/08/exegesis2.html

I like the fact that hash's and arrays are going to use their own symbols
for stuff like slices, should make explaining things a lot easier in the
future!

Dean
-- 
But then the serpent of OO entered the garden, and offered Perlkind the
bitter fruit of subroutine and method calls.
--- D Conway



Re: Latest Perl Journal

2001-05-16 Thread Dean

On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 01:19:36PM +0100, Robin Houston wrote:
  Thanks very much. It's one of my favourite jokes. It was trialed at a
  london.pm technical meeting some months ago :)

 What's the footnote on page 78, Dave?

And is this a subscribers copy or one found in the wild?

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Buffy ...

2001-05-16 Thread Dean

On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 05:08:17PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:

 http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/uk/auction/51586918

The economy took another downturn today as the few remaining London 
based dot-coms utilized the last of their ever diminishing budgets in
an attempt to procure an item that would see off the vampire ^Hventure
capitalists. One of the companies to survive todays spending spree was
MagSol, the founder Dave was heard to say Willows better. 

Sorry couldn't resist.
Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: see attachment

2001-05-12 Thread Dean S Wilson

-Original Message-
From: Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Of course we could make a cyberpunk movie instead, now let
me thing about it 


Someone please employ Mr Mccarroll. My mail box can't cope with him
having this much spare time. ;)

Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon





Re: (OT) constrained walk

2001-05-11 Thread Dean

On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 05:17:10PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
 Paul Mison wrote:
  there may be a second constrained walk
 
 What's a constrained walk?

About 5 yards. ;)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Monitors

2001-05-11 Thread Dean

On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:33:42PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:
 How many things do you have on top of your monitor?

A dust puppy fluffy toy, a copy of Network Progamming with Perl and a flock
of post it notes.

 monitor type=flatscreen
 None ;-)
 /

monitor type=21inch deskspace=minimal /

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Buffy musings ...

2001-05-09 Thread Dean

On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 08:49:30AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
  I'm interested in going to YAPC, is London PM going as a group or is it all
  just ad-hoc?
 
 which YAPC? Y::E i assume?

Yep YAPC::Europe, with the recent success of the New York trip i was being
(maybe ;)) optimistic about more group travel[0].

Dean
[0] Maybe even to the camel?
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



RE: Buffy musings ...

2001-05-09 Thread Dean

On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 11:20:36AM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote:
  2) Get Willow.  Dammit.
 
 I'll see what they cost.  It might be prohibitively expensive to get
 anyone who's cute.

Get Willow then ;)
 
Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Buffy musings ...

2001-05-08 Thread Dean

On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 06:20:33PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:
 I wonder how hard it would be to get Faith or Charisma Carpenter

Charisma Carpenter!!!
 
 That's a really silly idea.  I like it!  Despite the fact I won't actually
 be there.

Ditto, it works out a bit much for me to both spend and lose the weeks
income. Thank god for YAPC!

 Whilst we're (kinda) on the topic, can I have a reminder of
 who's going to yapc.  I'm still umm-ing and ahh-ing over whther I can
 afford it (us phud students suffer for our science).

I'm interested in going to YAPC, is London PM going as a group or is it all
just ad-hoc?

Dean (Also looking forward to the LBW and OSDEM and maybe LinuxTag)
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Buffy musings ...

2001-05-08 Thread Dean

On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 01:28:07PM -0400, David H. Adler wrote:
 Of course, Eliza should be finished with Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back
 by then...  Not sure what Charisma's doing outside of the Whedon Axis.

She was supposed to be in a film called The Twins but that was supposed
to have finished shooting in 2000 and nothings been seen of it since the
early details.

Does any one know if ORA will be selling a compilation of the papers again
after this conference?

Dean
PS Do we have any news on the YAPC::Europe talks that were recorded?

-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: More revolting natives

2001-05-04 Thread Dean

On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:17:25PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
 Oh, and you've just gotta love the mentality that sees 'gay' as an insult.
 Gives a real feel for the kind of person we're dealing with :)

Just to clarify is this the 13 year old?

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: More revolting natives

2001-05-04 Thread Dean

On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:32:35PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
 Well, the 13 year old now claims to be 20. But no, this is his friend bk who
 kills people for a living in Hereford!

Um. I no longer want children.

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: More revolting natives

2001-05-04 Thread Dean

On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:54:05PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 Um. I no longer want children.
 
 You *wanted* them?  :-)

Not really, guess I'm proof of Darwinism at work ;)

As an aside think of his parents sitting there become more and more filled
with dread and fear as they realise that one day he'll be picking out their
retirement homes...

Does the author of the book take an interest in the web group? I'd hope
she'd be on there correcting him.

Dean
I can see use.perl now, Thirteen year old boy terrorized by London PMer's
because Dave told them to :)
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Buffy? .. naah .. wait till you see this

2001-05-03 Thread Dean

On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 05:35:42PM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote:
 On the subject of C.C., let me just say that last night's Angel had
 her in a bikini for an exploitative commercial she was in.

You do realise that i have to wait for over six months to see this don't
you.

Bastard. :)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Buffy? .. naah .. wait till you see this

2001-05-03 Thread Dean

On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 09:14:18AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
 Cousin site to http://www.c-cup.com/, which seems to be down at the moment. 

It looks like its still down and the Google cache lacks images :(

  Typical example: Charisma Carpenter Guide to Selected Linux Software

 For those of you following on Sky One, remember that you're only ten days
 behind the US right now - so that episode will be shown a week on Friday.

Now who do i know with Sky ;)

 For those of you following on terrestial TV - $deity knows where or when
 Angel series 2 will be shown.

That would be me. Looks like the videos will be out before the show comes
on.

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Another Komodo

2001-04-26 Thread Dean

On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 05:44:45PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 (I assume AOL's Komodo is some Mozilla repackaging? Anyone know
 anything about this?)

theregister.co.uk has been running stories about it being used as a
possible alternative if AOL decides to stop bundling IE. No technical
details though...

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:12:30AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 umm .. for a windows install where Activestate Perl seems to be the
 standard then yes, its fair enough. For a *nix tool it MUST work with a
 standard Perl install or it is of zero use (to me) .. I do not have any
 intention of installing Activestate Perl on my Linux box or using it in a
 production environment.

IMHO the Linux port is an afterthought, most of the effort seems to have
been focused on the Windows side, the integration with Visual Studio
springs to mind.

 I've been through all the frustration I can cope with trying to get
 various CPAN modules to install with Activestate Perl under windows,
 waiting for the 'coming real soon' PPM version only to discover it was
 still not the latest release etc etc. (thinks back to DBI::Proxy under
 windows ..)  I have no intention of extending that experience to Unix :)

Mr Szemeti it seems we have met here before ;)

 I've sent a mail enquiring as to if it works on top of a standard Perl
 installation...

Let us know what they come back with.
 
 if it doesn't work on a standard Perl install its dead in the water IMHO

I can't see it taking off that much in the Nix world anyway, for some
reason IDE's always seem unwelcome (He adds writing this in vi and going
back to xemacs to code ;))

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 11:58:00AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 umm ... since Linux accounts (at a guess) for 75% of Perl usauge, thats
 quite an 'afterthought'. My guess is they see ActiveState Perl as taking
 over the world and these tools are simply there to help get it to that
 position.

And what percentage of that 75% are likely to buy an ide? Windows is a
better target market for things like this, the need is there but the
competition is not. Activestate is in a position of power in the Windows
world, they have the Windows Perl market pretty much wrapped up and by the
time someone else really tries to get into the race they'll find its
already over. I know that their are alternatives like the Indigo and 
Siemens distros but neither are really commercial.

Also in your guess at 75% you've hit a very important point. 25% of the
Windows market is a lot bigger than 75% of the Linux market, ActiveState is
a business and at the end of the day they have a much bigger (I assume ;))
market in the hordes of IDEless Windows users. And if we can sway some of
the other 75% of Windows users across to the dark side by getting Perl
associated with household products like Visual Studio then the more the
merrier ;)

 you can write code in emacs?

Apparently if you install enough major modes you can even edit text in
it... ;)
 
 umm .. sorta. Some IDE's are well liked, Kdevelop for C++ comes to mind,
 (which uses gcc ... )

I've been using this for C coding recently and its not too bad. It has a
couple of nice tricks though like clicking on the compile errors and being
taken to the line. Kdevelop follows the very good idea of not trying to
replace the compiler. DDD is another app that does this well but its just
another example that GUI's are not as popular as the command lines tools.
Yet.

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 03:58:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
 I think it's more than Windows accounts for 75% of the IDE market, rather
 than the Perl market...
 
 Anyway, I thought all this stuff about non-standard kinds of Win32 Perl was
 sorted out years ago. Activestate Perl is the same as anyone else's Perl,
 shurely? All the brain ache surrounding PPM and CPAN modules and XS is not
 strictly perl related is it? I mean how the hell do you install CPAN packges
 on EPOC perl or Mac Perl or any other platform that doesn't smell of Unix?

Your right, the perls are the same ActiveState are just a lot more aware of
what the OS can do and lacks the ability to do and tries to compensate for
them. If you have a stocked Windows box with nmake, VC++ and a bit of time
you can get CPAN working on it.

ActiveState also comes with some other stuff like the ability to use perl
in place of ASP and stuff like pl2bat. You can compile and use your own
perl just like you could on a Linux box but it just takes a bit more
effort and as the NMS project is showing making things easy is a good
thing. (Right watch Cantrell butcher me ;))

 I've I'm wrong and Activestate Perl is full of unreleased modifications to
 Perl itself 

Ahh yes, through the ActiveState way you can control clippit ;)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:17:00PM +0100, Paul Mison wrote:
 On MacPerl, non-XS modules install fine using Chris Nandor's CPAN-mac.
 XS modules are, erm, tricky, and usually you wait for someone who can

 deal with MPW and who needs them to do the port, although it is
 possible to do it if you know enough Mac-oriented C programming.

Whats MPW?

 OS X just uses CPAN like any other *nix, more or less.

Does OS X come with GNU tools like GCC and make then?

Dean (Clueless when it comes to macs.)
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Mourning clothes for London.pm

2001-04-18 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:29:43AM -0500, Mike Jarvis wrote:
 CNN reports that BtVS's SMG will wed Freddie Prinz.
 
 Of course he'll probably be attacked by vampires before that can
 actually happen.

Or Greg ;)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Komodo

2001-04-18 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 04:34:49PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 Emacs has been able to do this for probably 10 years or more.  I think
 even vim can do it now, too.

Never noticed that! I normally edit my code in emacs and do the compiling
on the command line in another term, never got too comfortable with doing
everything in xemacs.
 
 Emacs *is* an IDE.  It just doesn't look like all the other ones.
I was going to argue about the foot print but i use Visual Studio on
occasion ;)

-Dom (oops, was that inflammatory?)

Nah.
Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Beginners Guide

2001-04-17 Thread Dean

On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 10:41:46AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
  I'm painfully aware that not everyone on this list has the same amount of
  experience and knowledge and that therefore some discussions may well go
  over the head of some of the newbies. It's therefore nice to be able to find
  ways to help out beginners.

I thought this was going to lead to something completly different... Silly
me ;)
 
 Any chance you could transcribe the important bits for us. (if as I
 suspect, the important bits are umm .. errr .. 'soft and fleshy'  please
 attach jpegs)

You asked for this ;)

http://www.psyche.kn-bremen.de/

And its more upto date than BBC2!

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Komodo

2001-04-17 Thread Dean

I just downloaded and had a play with the release version 1.0 of Komodo for
Windows (The Linux one is still in the RC phase) and i have to say that I'm
impressed.

I know that a lot of the list are devoted to using text editors rather than
these 'new fangled' IDE's :) but i reckon this is worth a play with for three
main reasons:

1) The RX toolkit
2) Code folding
3) Reference Contents

The RX toolkit is a nice little box you can paste a regex into and
underneath you paste a string. It then shows what matches what and the
contents of the capturing parameters.

The code folding is something i was looking for a while ago and while the
beta of vim 6.0 has some support for folding subroutines (But it loses
state a lot...) Komodo lets you fold pretty much anything from subroutines
to if statements.

The last bit is something that i like as i can see it saving me adding and
removing Data::Dumper statements while debugging, I've only been playing
with this this afternoon but it seems to work as I'd expect and its nice to
have it handy without adding statements.

As a last point it even makes an attempt to guess at the keyword you were
typing when you hit ctrl-space. And it gets it right quiet often.

I know that you can do the three things i mentioned above with other
techniques but this puts them closer with less hoop jumping to use them on
a day to day basis.

Has anyone got an views on it or the Linux version?
Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Komodo

2001-04-17 Thread Dean

On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 06:23:28PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
 On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 05:57:17PM +0100, Dean wrote:
  Has anyone got an views on it or the Linux version?
 
 The Linux version is broken; it won't install, claiming you need a new
 license.

Gah! I just downloaded this and tried to install, at least i know it wasn't
me now ;)

 Komodo on the Linux version, yet. b) we changed licnese schemes recently. If
 absolutely necessary we can send you a new license.

I'm semi patient :)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Komodo

2001-04-17 Thread Dean

On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 07:12:32PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
  Has anyone got an views on it or the Linux version?
 
 I haven't looked at it, but will.  However, it does look from the web pages
 as if it requires me to download Activestate's distribution of perl.  This
 is a Bad Thing.  If it turns out that I can use my existing 5.6, then I'll
 give it a go, but if I have to fuck around, I won't bother.

Didn't notice that and since it won't install without a license i won't be
evaling it yet and can't confirm if it screws over existing installs.
 
 Methinks Activestate are too much in the Windows world, and need to learn
 about "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Someone needs to be in the Windows world and I'd rather them worry about it
than me ;)

Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest
operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete

I like this sig.

    Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Technical Meeting Agenda

2001-04-12 Thread Dean

On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 10:15:13AM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote:

 Committee Reports:
 Canel Visitation Committee
^

God we're going down market... ;)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Perl on HPUX

2001-04-11 Thread Dean

On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 12:54:54PM -0500, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote:
 http://cpan.valueclick.com/ports/#hpux

The http://hpux.connect.org.uk/ site looks like a good resource if a little
behind.

 http://lists.perl.org/showlist.cgi?name=perl-hpux
 could also use some life :)

Not another mailing list... You can't make me! I'm only moving some Linux
scripts across to HPUX so i doubt I'd be much use on the list. The error
threw me since i'm too new to this to know Perl 4.

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-04-09

2001-04-11 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 01:00:16PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote:
 crazy. However, we really need to start organising the meetings (hey,
 even Lonix is more organised!), as it was too loud and crowded:

You have a weird idea of organized ;)

We tried to get 60 people into 30 places...
 
Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Perl on HPUX

2001-04-11 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 08:58:55AM -0500, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote:
What part of HP-UX didn't scream 'behind' :)

The price tag ;)

Sadly, the list isn't terribly active but, depending on the platform,
vendor specific lists can be very useful in such situations.

But do they have Buffy discussions ? Or Grep ;)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Perl on HPUX

2001-04-10 Thread Dean

Hi All
Question for the list, i'm currently writing some scripts for a HP box
running HPUX 11 and i keep hitting the same error when ever i try and use
something (even 'use strict;'.) The error is "syntax error in file p2.pl
at line 2, next 2 tokens "use strict" ". The file is a noddy script with

#!/usr/contrib/bin/perl
use strict;

print "Working...\n";

Does anyone on list have any experience with perl on this platform and know
if i need to change the shebang or anything similar.

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Perl on HPUX

2001-04-10 Thread Dean

On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 01:13:59PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 /usr/contrib/bin/perl -V
 
 To find out what version it is and post back.

DOH! Its running 4.0.1.8

Should have spotted that... Next time you get told the dev box is a copy of
the producing box don't believe them :)

Thanks Dominic
Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Installing Perl/Tk on Win32

2001-04-10 Thread Dean

On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 04:45:40PM +0100, Andrew Bowman wrote:
 I'm trying to install the Tk module on a Win32 system (I realise this is
 where my mistake lies, however, leaving that aside...). The docs say to:

If you don't really need to compile it yourself how's about:
ppm install Tk?

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: sub BEGIN {}

2001-04-05 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 06:19:46PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
  On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 12:52:32PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
   Last time I went to Lonix, it was full of w4r3z d00dz. :( The kind of
   people who only used linux because they didn't have to pay for it.
 
 A while back. It was the time with the wearable computers demo.

Ah the one at the uni near Angel tube. Those weren't w4r3z d00dz they were
far far worse... Students ;)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Certing

2001-04-05 Thread Dean

Will the Perl Cert discussion/brainstorming be taking part at todays meet
or the technical one?

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: sub BEGIN {}

2001-04-05 Thread Dean

On Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 02:54:25PM +0100, Martin Ling wrote:
  A while back. It was the time with the wearable computers demo.
 
 Neill's, I take it, rather than one of my impromptu borgings? I've no
 idea who most of those people were. Some kind of gargoyle groupie effect
 g... I heard some dreadful stories about the wearables thing at ICA
 some time back too. 

Well i mean Martin what kind of freak would build a wearable for personal
use... Even going so far as to hack the hardware in a webcam and a touch
pad? ;)
 
 All this said, there were an obscene number of people at Lonix last
 night,

At least 50 people in the restaurant from the number of individual meals on
the bill. And we lost a bundle when we left the pub... Twas a good night.
London PM even had a representitive present as Mr Brocard made an
apperence. And was scared ;)

 Grr. I don't *want* to turn into an elitist wanker, it's just that I'd
 like all these morons to fuck off :-P

I'd settle for having them learn to quote in email...

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: sub BEGIN {}

2001-04-04 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 11:06:14AM +0100, Martin Ling wrote:
 I'm not sure I'll be able to make it though - I've got things to prepare
 for this talk at GLLUG on Saturday.

Which is on a subject a lot of people on the list are interested in,
wireless networking and the Consume.net project so you might get to meet
some of this lot anyway :)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 11:39:55AM +0100, Matthew Jones wrote:
 I don't know which education system you went through, but I was taught all
 this stuff at primary school. I think it's just because the pupils couln't
 be beggared to learn it properly (as you suggest), preferring to subscribe
 to the "well, you know what I mean" school of thought. 

I was at school from up to 1995 and grammer, hand writing and similar were
only lightly touched upon. IT was another subject that we never actually
did (other than read about spreadsheets leading to my adult hatred of
Excel) and as far as I'm aware none of my friends of the same age did any
real grammer in school so you can expect a fair size chunk of 20-22 year
olds to have no real grasp of what constitutes good grammar.

Although i have to say that I'm one of the worse for this, i drop into
slang and similar almost all the time outside of work, not to mention that
my emails to friends are written as I'd say them. Is it just me or do we
seem to thread drift a lot recently...
 
 I remember last year I helped a designer chum of mine subscribe to (void),

Did he have lots of wasted disk space you felt the need to use? ;)

    Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: sub BEGIN {}

2001-04-04 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 12:02:14PM +0100, Neil Ford wrote:
  
  I'm not sure I'll be able to make it though - I've got things to prepare
  for this talk at GLLUG on Saturday.
  
 Details? Location? URL?


-Paste


The next GLLUG meeting will be on Saturday 7th April 2001, between 2
and
6pm.  New venue this time, we will be at the

CFC Preview Theatre,
19-23 Wells St.,
London W1,

not too far from the Plaza Centre in Oxford Street.  For a handy map,
take a look
at
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?P2M?P=W1P3FPZ=1

For your edutainment, we hope to have the following talks on the day.



Martin Ling - "Wireless networking with Linux and the Consume.net
project"

Martin will provide an overview of wireless networking support in
Linux,
and explain how one can use low cost hardware to join in a spreading,
decentralized and independent network being established through the
consume.net project. If you already have wireless hardware, feel free
to
bring it along and join in the fun.



John Hearns - "Computers Go to the Movies".

It is a general introduction to the work of our host FrameStore, a
post
production movie house in Soho.  He'll cover the equipment, computing
and networking used for special effects and 3D animation work.



Richard Moore (IBM) - "Dynamic Probes"

Richard will tell us how to use IBM's DProbes with Opersys' Linux
Trace
Toolkit  to provide a universal (dynamic) tracing capability for
Linux.
It is universal because it provides a common tracing mechanism for
all
executables whether in user or kernel space. It is dynamic because
tracepoints are defined and applied dynamically to object modules as
probepoints using DProbes - no source code modification is required.

See
http://oss.software.ibm.com/developer/opensource/linux/projects/dprob
es/
for a taster of things to come.


---Stop--

Now if only someone would do a community news letter to cover this stuff...

I've seen Johns talk at SAGE-WISE and its a good one. 

Dean

-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: sub BEGIN {}

2001-04-04 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 11:14:48AM +0100, Dean wrote:
   I'm not sure I'll be able to make it though - I've got things to prepare
   for this talk at GLLUG on Saturday.

While i'm doing this i might as well plug the Lonix tonight (www.lonix.org.uk)

Lonix is normally pub, pub, food, pub maybe club. It covers as much Linux
as the London PM social nights do Perl ;)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Dean

On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 02:10:40PM +0100, Clarke, Darren wrote:
 On the other hand not using decent grammar because it wasn't taught seems a
 bit lazy.  Admittedly I'm not the best at written words in emails but I
 figure most intelligent people will rise above their background as the
 situation dictates.

I'm lucky that i get to spend so much time in environments where a strict
adherence to grammar is not the norm, my own short comings with it don't
show quiet so clearly :)

 don't believe me when I answer.  This is a case of using 'Standard English'
 instead of the quasi-cockney patois the Lutonians espouse!

Nothing wrong with using a bit of native tongue in a conversation. When I'm
talking with people who know me and I'm comfortable with i often end up
using a lot of slang and similar (Also my accent strengthens). I probably 
shouldn't but my accent and vocabulary are part of what makes me who i am
so i see no reason to worry about them. With people who don't know me
however i do keep a conscious check on my accent and wording so as to not
offend or be incomprehensible. (I often fail at both ;))

Although i try to stay accentless in work :)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: archiving

2001-04-03 Thread Dean

On Tue, Apr 03, 2001 at 02:17:01PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote:
 
 So, should we start baiting Scientologists through the archive? 
 
 Where do I start?
Posting the fishman affidavit should do it. ;)

 * The "church" was responsible for the closure of anon.penet.fi and recently
 forced Slashdot to edit some comments.

Forced is a bit strong. They used the (Broken) DMCA law and told Slashdot
what to do. Slashdot realized that this wasn't every-ones favourite bad guy
Microsoft and realized that they had not a leg to stand on. The reason i
have such a jaded view of this is that the situation was very similar to
the Microsoft Kerberus one and Slashdot held their ground over that one.

Also it was amusing to see the comments praising the decision to back down
and remove the article.
 
    Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Crazy Idea

2001-04-03 Thread Dean

On Tue, Apr 03, 2001 at 03:29:04PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:

 How would people in London.pm like a one night camp out, subject
 to the FM issue going away. The plan would be - we bundle into
 vehicles on a given afternoon (probably saturday), go to a farm
 shop and get lots of cider, and then spend the night around a
 camp fire, drinking and talking.

Cool idea.

I'll come if we can have marshmallows ;)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Crazy Idea

2001-04-03 Thread Dean

On Tue, Apr 03, 2001 at 04:52:52PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
   Hmmm. Do the words "foot" and "mouth" mean nothing to you?
 
 i was using the working assumption, that the time for the FM ban
 to be lifted was less than the time required for london.pm to
 organise this

London PM and the Labour govenernment... which will act first?
Irresistible force meets immovable object ;)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Perl Certification Drive

2001-03-29 Thread Dean Wilson

I think the money aspect is very important. This isn't YAS, it's supposed
to
be a professional qualification for professional programmers. 300 sounds
like a good number for me. "If it only costs a fiver then what good can it
be" will be the PHB's attitude, I've seen this often.

The important difference here is that you have the cost of the course and
the cost of the exam as separate items. Let NetThink charge 2000 for a
weeks course that corporate interests can see but remember to have a
separate 45-60 for each exam. That way you don't need corporate sponsorship
just to get one of these. I don't know if it fits in with the other idea's
but one of the things I'd like is the ability to just walk into a training
centre, book an appointment and then do the exam the next day, no trying to
get a week off work, no major fees just the exam.

If you force people to do an expensive training course you lose alot of
appeal.

    Dean
--





Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

2001-03-28 Thread Dean S Wilson

Original Message-
From: Simon Cozens [EMAIL PROTECTED]


On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 12:02:48PM +0100, alex wrote:
 ps the big killer is that there is no large corporate generating
tons of
 noise about Perl - whereas this is not the case for Java.

Wait until TPC.


Ahh come on! We need more than that! :)

Where are all the things like Perl advocacy, PR, Business Awareness
and non-technical expansion plans for the language discussed?

Dean
--
Perl coder in a sea of PHP.




Re: Debuggers (was Re: Perl Training Courses)

2001-03-22 Thread Dean

On Thu, Mar 22, 2001 at 04:45:57AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote:
   You have a decent Perl debugger. It's called perl -d.
  
  Eugh.  perl -d:ptkdb please.
 
 Yeah. Now use that when you only have telnet access to your development
 system :-/

Not even an ssh connection?

  Now with added pointy and clickyness.
 
 Now with added Ludditeness.

Wait till Activestate get their IDE's out for Linux and the plugin for
Visual Studio... I can't wait.

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

2001-03-20 Thread Dean

On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:18:47AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote:
 
 Take a look at this http://search.cpan.org/search?dist=Date-MMDDYY.
 
 Now give me:
 
 a) a two reasons why this module should never have been written, and
 b) as many flaws as possible in the implementation.

Submit a patch for conversion to DDMMYY and see if it gets incorporated :)
Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Strange Request

2001-03-13 Thread Dean

On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 09:52:12AM +, Dave Cross wrote:
 Just been wandering around the website and (as an owner of the book) was 
 able to access the 'private' areas. 

Well if you have a look at the vulnerabilitys database on securityfocus.com
then you too can be an admin of the message board and tidy up his code for
him ;)

Thanks to everyone who sent me code off list. I shall protect the names of
the not quite innocent.

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: Autoconf Magic

2001-03-12 Thread Dean

On Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 11:23:04AM +, Simon Wistow wrote:
 Anybody know anything about doing autoconf stuff (for a C makefile, sad
 but it's necessary) or know any good place to look?

Not personally but i have this in my bookmark list:
http://sources.redhat.com/autobook/autobook/autobook_toc.html

HTH
Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Strange Request

2001-03-09 Thread Dean

Does any one here have any smallish programs (around the 50 lines mark)
that are badly written and need a tidy up? (I've seen the 12 steps, i know
your hiding the good stuff) I'm looking for a few bits of
code (Not Obfuscated contest level though :)) that i can use as
examples of bad coding style.

If all else fails I'll be raiding Matts script archive ;)

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand
   --- Anon



Re: RPC stuff

2001-03-08 Thread Dean S Wilson

-Original Message-
From: Jonathan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]


What's the best way forward for RPC / distributed Perl stuff? I don't
need
anything super complicated, but RPC::Simple seems to want to use Tk
?!


XML-RPC and SOAP are both interesting at the mo.

Homepage
http://www.xmlrpc.org/

XML-RPC perl tutorial.
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/ws-xpc1/?dwzone=ws

SOAP::Lite tutorial.
http://home.cnet.com/webbuilding/0-7704-8-4874769-1.html

Although neither are really my field.

Dean (Must stay on topic...)
--
Perl Coder SecTech E-mail troll
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Re: de-dupe a filesystem

2001-02-08 Thread Dean S Wilson

-Original Message-
From: Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Anyone got anything to hand that will spot massive duplications in a
filesystem? I've got a whole bunch of servers mirrored to a backup
server and it's be nice to identify where entire file trees have been
replicated...


You could run diff on the checksum files that tripwire makes. You do
tripwire your servers don't you? ;)

This came up on a list recently, I've never used it but it seems to
fit your problem. It looks like a trial version is available
http://www.veracity.com/apps_compremote.shtml

HTH
Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Re: Perl Books

2001-02-01 Thread Dean S Wilson

-Original Message-
From: Elaine -HFB- Ashton [EMAIL PROTECTED]


anyone other than Webheads have better things to do than learn CGI.
It
doesn't make them stupid, in fact, I'd almost argue that they are the
bright ones.


Amen.

Which is probably about 95% of the planet. Why should they care if
the
Perl is shoddy? The web page works :)

I can see your point and I agree that a tiny initial learning curve is
a good thing but what happens when the shoddy bit of cgi is used to
execute an intrusion on the host it's based on or another machine?.
The coder has a responsibility to make sure that his work at least
pays some attention to security. And if the book doesn't cover use
warnings or use strict I doubt taint mode is in the contents.

If you thought Simons Buffy joke was bad have a look at this, you want
the Tainted Perl section...
http://www.spy.org.uk/london2600/party-2000.htm

Dean (Packing for Belgium so not at tonight's meeting)

--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Re: Perl Books

2001-02-01 Thread Dean S Wilson

-Original Message-
From: Benjamin Holzman [EMAIL PROTECTED]

True, but there aren't many people who will assume that they can
perform
brain surgery just because they successfully applied a band-aid to a
paper
cut the week before.


You haven't been to the NHS recently have you... ;)

Dean

--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




London Community News 30/01/00

2001-01-30 Thread Dean S Wilson
o if your interested in going you may not be alone. The GLLUG
mailing list is currently the place to be if your interested in going.

Also Fydor is planning to visit London after the meeting so if you
don't manage to get to Brussels then you may still get the opportunity
to hear him speak. (Further details on the location when I get them.)


Other Stuff
---

Community Recognition:
In this section I'd like to include people or companies that have
contributed or helped one or more of the user groups in some way. A
lot of people quietly contribute time, money or effort and get no
recognition for it. This month I'd like to thank:

Blackstar (www.blackstar.co.uk)
Blackstar were amazing sponsors of both YAPC::Europe and buying Damian
Conway (http://www.yetanother.org/damian/b+w/about.html) and have
contributed a lot to the Perl Community in recent months as well as
founding a new Perl mongers user group.

Veritas www.veritas.com
Some of the staff of Veritas not only did a succession of excellent
talks at the last two GLLUG meetings GLLUG but then took the whole of
the last GLLUG meeting out for a sponsored curry afterwards. And as
anyone who knows me knows this is one of my weakspots.


---
This month only Personal thanks:
I'd like to say thanks to John Hearns for pushing the idea and
usefulness of this e-mail, he helped kick me into doing this (Blame
him :)). I'd also like to say thank you to Jonathan Crompton from
SAGE-WISE for his enthusiasm and rapid responses when I was trying to
get the idea off the ground.

Any comments (Good or bad), suggestions of groups to add or ideas for
recognition of services to London Community groups are welcome at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

HTH
   Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
--- Anon




Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Dean S Wilson

-Original Message-
From: Robert Shiels [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Jon, who thinks Windows workstation connected to *nix machine
running
samba
 is the prefered development environment.

Strangely enough, thats exactly what I do at home. With Exceed for
doing X
stuff.


If you've got a nice meaty box at home then run Linux with NT in
vmware, you get a very nice system that way. You have a two machine
subnet for clean network testing that can be firewalled off at the
Linux host os, you can use procmail to check for vbs viri and then use
outlook and IE for web browsing. Its how I used to do 95% of my work.
Well until my motherboard started frying harddrives...

Dean

PS Running Linux in VMWare on NT works fine as well but its sick :)

--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Dean S Wilson

Original Message-
From: David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 Must remember to try IE under WINE.

Don't bother.  It doesn't work.


I've seen IE5 running under wine on Debian. The machine did have a 98
partition though so he might have been using the libraries from there,
is that cheating? :)

Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Perl Books

2001-01-23 Thread Dean S Wilson

I was having a look at the perl book reviews on Amazon (Yes boycott,
yes they have good reviews) when I came across this

Proceedings of the Perl Conference 4.0
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596000138/qid=980264576/sr=1
-62/202-4272860-9199824

I didn't get to go to that conference so can anyone who did go and
knows anything about this tell me if it contains details on the talks
and similar?

Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Re: Extreme Programming (was: Re: Consultancy company)

2001-01-20 Thread Dean S Wilson

-Original Message-
From: Aaron Trevena [EMAIL PROTECTED]


I did a little pair programming at emap - I probably wasn't doing it
right
tho'. even so we did get thru the hard bits quicker and could split
up to
do the easy stuff. I think it made a difference but then I was mostly
being a backseat coder so either we did okay or stuart was very
tolerant
indeed.


How did you establish who would make good pairings? Was it done by
trying to place two equals or was it done more on a mentoring level of
a very experienced coder and a less experienced one? (I've not read
that much on XP)

Has anyone who's used XP had a client that was willing to make an
employee available pretty much full time or was it more they come in
for a chunk of the afternoon three times a week? I have an issue with
the fact that clients will be willing to pay a member of staff to
spend all day in the consultants office in case they need to be asked
questions. I'm not saying its a bad thing to have someone on hand, I
can see its uses but from the clients point of view why not just have
contact by phone/email. That was the liaison has access to everyone in
his base office so he can resolve issues faster with more authority
than if he were in your offices. Also you have a paper trail of
requests, questions and responses.

Is the Monday night meeting still on for those of us who can't make
the lunch time one?

Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Dean S Wilson

On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 11:08:41AM +, alex wrote:

 In my opinion London would be fine for an August conference.

 I don't know what the fuss is about, really.  London is not like
Paris in
 the summer.  We have a lot more parks.

 Perhaps September would be better, but hey.


I could go with September, if you go for before August the start of
July has a selection of stuff already in planning:

The summer Linux Developers' Conference Fri 29th June to Sun 1st July.

Linux Expo Weds 4th - Thurs 5th July in London.

LinuxTag Stuttgart (Germany) 5th-8th July 2001.

Also there is going to be a UKLISA in the second half of this year but
I'm not too sure of dates.

HTH
Dean

--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Dean S Wilson

-Original Message-
From: Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED]

(I'll have to remember that pop quizzes are a good way to force the
lurkers out of hiding :)


Nope its the lure of free alcohol.

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Re: one liner

2001-01-07 Thread Dean S Wilson

-Original Message-
From: Nathan Torkington [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Dean S Wilson writes:
 Has anyone tried Linux glade recently? Is it stable with perl yet?

The TPJ that's stalled at the printers has a fantuckingfastic article
on getting started with Glade and Perl/Gtk.


I now hate you.

Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Re: one liner

2001-01-06 Thread Dean S Wilson

-Original Message-
From: Michael Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Greg are you trolling? If so let me play ;)

 the only thing that gives potential for the marketing of a language
is the
 projects that are achieved using it and java has a hell of a lot
more cool
 projects than perl

What are these mysterious cool java projects that no-one's been
telling
me about?


Fortay's a good example. A Java IDE written in Java, and under Linux
it's pretty quick even on 64 MB ram.


IBM developerworks and Alphaworks have tftp and dhcp servers in Java.
I wouldn't run them though :)

I think the best thing people can do for the language is create good
things
and modules and whatever using it.

I agree but I also think that this is one of the problems, the only
people who see the modules are other perl coders. I'm not saying that
modules are a bad thing or a waste of effort, I'd hate to think about
writing the code for half of the modules I use on a regular basis but
the only people who really understand and use them are perl coders,
people who know that perl is good. I think Greg means making something
a little more visible, How many netusers see the powered by python
logo on mailman each day? Whats our answer to that? Slashcode?

Plying devils advocate is fun.
Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Re: one liner

2001-01-06 Thread Dean S Wilson

-Original Message-
From: Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Ok, we are not (void) but we are pretty close so here is a one liner
that
hopefully will provote discussion 


I left (void) and you'l not take me back alive! Outlook canne take the
strain!

the only thing that gives potential for the marketing of a language
is the
projects that are achieved using it and java has a hell of a lot more
cool
projects than perl

I think that marketing is the key term in this mail. Java has a good
marketing team and is being taught in universities at the moment,
nothing better than having a lot of fresh faced advocates being
spawned at the end of each term.

Dean (Playing both sides in this one)

--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Damian's webpage.

2001-01-04 Thread Dean S Wilson

Don't know how many of you have seen this:
http://yetanother.org/damian/diary_January_2001.html#day_4

Made me chuckle.

Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Re: Perl CD BookShelf 2nd Edition

2000-12-28 Thread Dean S Wilson

-Original Message-
From: Natalie Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 28 December 2000 18:54
Subject: Re: Perl CD BookShelf 2nd Edition


The problem being that I think they should include both and there is
noway
of voting for both!  :-)


I'd agree with both for more money. And they might as well add the DBI
book, it was light enough to be added at very little cost :)

ReviewGood book and very well written but too light techwise, a
bundle of FULL examples with different databases would have made it
better IMHO
/Review

Now that the cd bookshelves are taking off it might be time for ORA to
get a policy in place for upgrades, I'd rather pay 10-15 to upgrade my
perl and Unix CD first edition and miss out on the included book than
have to shell out for both of them at full price again. Might send
that in to "ask Tim" as it goes...

Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Re: Perl CD BookShelf 2nd Edition

2000-12-28 Thread Dean S Wilson

Original Message-
From: Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 get a policy in place for upgrades, I'd rather pay 10-15 to upgrade
my
 perl and Unix CD first edition and miss out on the included book
than
 have to shell out for both of them at full price again. Might send
 that in to "ask Tim" as it goes...

Or wait for our resident O'Reilly editor to pick up on it...

Good point! I just found this in the Ask Tim Archives. looks like
plans have been laid...


-Quote
Of course, CD Bookshelf products and ematter versions of some titles
are only two of many experiments we're running in an attempt to build
up business models for online books. We will be selling online access
to individual books and collections of books on a subscription basis
starting next year. And I imagine that we'll figure out some way of
giving a discount to people who've previously bought books. (It's a
good argument for product registration for books, so we know who's
bought them, and can make these kind of offers.)
Quote

Be interesting to see how they deal with it, and maybe we can start
getting bulk discounts :)

Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon