Re: e-smith
On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 12:56:15PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: On Mon, Jun 18, 2001 at 12:12:33PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote: I see that the new edtion of Linux Format comes with a copy of e-smith on the CD. According to the blurb, e-smith is a complete, easy to use and install server/gateway system that manages mail, firewalling, file-sharing, prinintg - everything you need from your server. Bleah. Whilst it might not be what you're looking for, it is what any number of small business are crying out for (even if they don't know it yet grin). Now personally I'd rather hand build a box using FreeBSD but I can appreciate someone having a go at producing a 'packaged' solution. Once I have a spare box, I'll probably give e-smith a looksie, just to see if it can teach me anything. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: YAPC::Europe
On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 09:17:53AM +0100, Dean wrote: On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 06:56:35PM +, Redvers Davies wrote: Plane tickets are currently 37 quid return via easyjet... Are there any plans for a group of London PMer's to fly over together or is the whole thing going to be ad hoc? Needing to get things sorted, we've booked our flights already. I know at least one other London.pmer is on the same flight as us (Easyjet from Gatwick, 14:45 Wednesday 1st). Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: YAPC::Europe (Ignore this request)
On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 03:30:36PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Struan Donald ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: * at 15/06 14:41 +0100 Greg McCarroll said: Ok, ignore this request now. Also thanks to Simon Wilcox. for helping me out here. I also believe others are flying on this flight, so it looks like we have the official flight for London.pm ;-) and thanks to Jouke we can claim to have an official London.pm hotel - with minibars and minigolf somehow i just can't see offical hotel of london.pm being used in the marketing material... site of the 2001 mini golf riot may not go down well either, i'm not curious how much of the hotel we can take up will we get our own floor? do we have enough airports to give us a private lan? If we did, who'd pick up the phone bill? If I pack enough laptops we could have our own irc server though :-) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
[fwd] Group booking AC Hotel
For those not on the yapc europe mailing list. (you will need to subscribe to register interest in this though). Neil. - Forwarded message from Jouke Visser [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:34:10 +0200 From: Jouke Visser [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Group booking AC Hotel As posted before, if anyone wants to use the possibility of a discount hotel-booking, please reply to the list. If we get enough people to stay for enough nights, we can get a group discount. Jouke Visser YAPC::Europe Sponsoring - End forwarded message - -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: [fwd] Group booking AC Hotel
On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 05:05:53PM +0100, Neil Ford wrote: For those not on the yapc europe mailing list. (you will need to subscribe to register interest in this though). Neil. For anyone interested, here's a URL on the hotel (it's long I'm afraid). http://www.bookings.nl/hotels/acamsterdam?area_key=cityavail_key=onclass=3class_key=onid=11lang=ukoffers_key=onplace=Amsterdamsbd=1sbm=8sed=6sem=8state=The+Netherlandsx=77y=10via=search Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: YAPC::Europe Registration
On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 10:57:51AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote: I see that registration for YAPC::Europe has opened. http://www.yapc.org/Europe/registration.html They've also accepted both my Perl for the People and Creating Data Output Files Using the Template Toolkit talks :) Dave... So who's registered then? ;-) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
[fwd] Fwd: [Gllug] Geeknic - 17th June
- Forwarded message from Gordon Joly [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:24:11 +0100 From: Gordon Joly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Squack Shaque [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fwd: [Gllug] Geeknic - 17th June Fowarded with permission. Please rdist widely Gordo From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Gllug] Geeknic - 17th June Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 17:28:05 +0100 The Geeknic is planned for Sunday 17th June. Please, please publicise this to all the lists and newsgroups you know. The more the merrier! What - the Geeknic is a Geek Picnic. Date - Sunday 17th June Time - 12:30 onwards (I thought of 12:00 but that might be too early) Place - General Wolff's Statue, adjacent to the Observatory, Greenwich Park (this is a terrace overlooking London, right next to the one o'clock time signal) Bring - picnic food, cool drinks, and lashings of ginger beer Plus sun screen and hats (ha! bet it rains) Activities - bring frisbees, softball, kites, nerf guns and any other fun things to do. Alternate activities - there is a craft market in Greenwich, and nice restaurants and pubs for later on Computing - palmtops and laptops OK, but these shouldn't form the focus of the day. I may well have a car there, so we could consider hauling in a power supply. Facilities - there are toilets in the park, plus ice cream stands and a rather pricey cafe How to find us - follow the sign of the Inflatable Penguin (seriously though, we should be in the vicinity of the observatory. IT won't be too hard to spot a bunch of geeks and inflatable penguins in Greenwich Park) If you are unsure about finding the place, we can swap mobile numbers off list. -- Gllug mailing list - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://list.ftech.net/mailman/listinfo/gllug -- Gordon Joly// [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://pobox.com/~or/ - End forwarded message - -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Sony Clie (was Re: Social meet)
On Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 10:45:09AM +0100, Robert Shiels wrote: From: Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] i'm 07957 386 815 i'm also going to be free this afternoon after about 2 ish (ill switch the phone on then) so if anyone wants to meet up before the meeting give me a bell Between 5 and 6pm I'll be wandering up and down TCR looking for a new PDA. Sony Clie is my preferred choice at the moment. If anyone knows a good shop, or is good at haggling and wants to help, I'm on 07801 814138. /Robert I would strongly suggest you check out the Palm M500/505 as they come in the lovely Palm V form factor but have an expansion slot (taking both Secure Digital and Multimedia cards) http://www.palm.com/products/accessories/expansioncards/ or alternatively the Handera (formerly TRG) 330, which uses the Palm III form factor, supports existing Palm III peripherals but has both a Compact Flash and a SD slot for expansion! http://www.handera.com/ Oh yeah, and it's got a real speaker :-) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: BUFFY - SPOILERS , DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN SKY 1 LAST NIGHT
On Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 04:45:45PM +0100, Leo Lapworth wrote: On Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 08:19:56AM +0100, Dave Cross wrote: On Sat, Jun 02, 2001 at 07:47:00AM +0100, Greg McCarroll ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* *SPOILER ALERT* Well what about last night? Buffy no more? Well I'm pretty sure she will be back, my reasoning - they played the normal end of show credits/ theme tune, if they had of killed the character off, there would of been a special ending. Mind you, when I explained this theory to the wife she used the phrase ``clutching at straws'' Well, how about the argument that SMG has singed up for two more series? I've been told (*prays this is not true*) that SMG signed up for two more series but has a clause that if Univeral Pictures produce it she is not oblidged to do them (as apparently she didn't want to work for Universal). So, this could be an ending to make sure she and Univeral have time to work it out... i just hope I have been mis-informed. Trying to remember where I read this (probably Heat) but SMG *had* said she wouldn't stay with the show if it moved from WB to UPN. Quick bit of digging and I've found the following; [Heat Magazine, 19-25 May 2001] The producers of Buffy, Fox TV, have offered ridiculous soundbites to justify switching TV networks in the US. The WB, home to Buffy since it's inception, did not match the passion and vision demonstrated by rival network UPN, which has secured the show for two years. The fact that UPN bid a total of $22 million more than WB wasn't mentioned by Fox. UPN sontinued to show it's vision and passion with the $50,000 gift baskets it sent eight Buffy cast regulars to welcome them to their new network - which included Cristal champagne and a Cartier watch, Sarah Michelle Gellar - who once said she'd quit Buffy if it left WB, then retracted the comments - was given a Gucci necklace. Heat may not always be the most reliable rag, but it's ususally fairly accurate on this stuff. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: bad greg
On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 08:27:19AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: i'm sorry about asking this, but i've purged too many old archives of london.pm to find this one - someone one once mentioned a domain name registry with a neat web based management system for handling the dns wizardry afterwards - could they please remind me of the url? www.blackcatnetworks.co.uk FreeBSD users, Debian committers, OpenSRS registry (can do .co.uk's too), recommended to me by Mr Couzens, at least one other person on this list co-los with them, they have clue, all-round nice guys. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: [PUB] Possible candidate
On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 10:00:05AM +0100, Simon Wistow wrote: Was meandering aimlessly round by Southwark/ Blackfriar's Bridge/ Tate Modern area last night and ended up in a very nice pub by the river called Doggets Coat and Badge. I have the manager's business card at home. Nice beer (Speckled Hen, IPA, Pride), quiet, by the river, tasteful decor, few stairs, mercifully Barley free. Named after the oldest rowing race in the world (or vice versa) which started in 1721 and is still raced today. Only one question food? Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: bad greg
On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 11:09:28PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 05:55:39PM +0100, Neil Ford wrote: Mr Couzens Die, alien slime! My apologies was typed in a hurry on a tube train and I didn't double check before it got sent when I got home. 100 x I must check the spelling of people's surnames before hitting send Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: [Announce] Hackspoitation film fest
On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 01:53:54PM +0100, Simon Wistow wrote: (http://www.twoshortplanks.com/simon/filmfest/) Time for yet another movie marathon since people have been carping on about it grin and this time it's the long awaited hacksploitation night - exploring the interesting and, umm, tenuous relationship that the silver screen has with the hacker (and cracker) lifestyle. The Time : Sunday, 27th of May. About 2pm. (although I don't mind doing it earlier or later) Would love to have made this but too much on this weekend and making the technical meeting on Saturday means the rest of the weekend has to be spent being productive. Line up so far will come from ... o Hackers o War Games o Antitrust o Takedown Bugger, there's two on there I haven't yet seen and I can always watch Hackers. No, 'The Net' does not count. If anybody has any of these ... o Sneakers Had I been able to locate my copy you would have been more than welcome to borrow it it would appear mine's in storage. If I get a chance before Saturday I'll try and track it down. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: TPC talk practice / technical meet
On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 11:34:21PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote: Neil Ford sent the following bits through the ether: Will you be requiring a projector for this? Yes please! Will you be coming down or can we send someone to borrow your projector for the day? ;-) ps looks like Simon Cozens will be coming down and giving a few talks too Nat's quite keen to attend and I've kinda offered to give Jo a hand sorting out getting the new disk in Penderel, so it looks like we can transport the projector ourselves. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women
On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 01:26:43PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote: On 20 May 2001, Piers Cawley wrote: Neil Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just picked up the latest FHM to check out the above mentioned list... The interesting bits are as follows; The really interesting bit was Mr Ford dancing around in his living room crowing because Sara Cox had read his name out on the radio. Just exactly *why* had Sara Cox read Neil's name out? I was going to stay out of this one, but in order to make sure the facts remain straight, I will answer this one. On her show on Friday she was going on about being No 68 on the list but she hadn't actually seen the magazine so didn't know what they had said about her. So being a sad muppet (there you go, I've said it), I typed up what was in the mag and emailed it to her. She read out the email and said Thank You. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: TPC talk practice / technical meet
On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 07:12:51PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote: [stuff about TPC/YAPC talk practice, all snipped] Will you be requiring a projector for this? Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women
Just picked up the latest FHM to check out the above mentioned list... The interesting bits are as follows; At no. 11, Sarah Michelle Geller At no. 10, Alyson Hannigan!!! Nuff said :-) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women
On Thu, May 17, 2001 at 08:54:12PM +0100, Martin Ling wrote: On Thu, May 17, 2001 at 07:36:12PM +0100, Neil Ford wrote: Just picked up the latest FHM to check out the above mentioned list... The interesting bits are as follows; At no. 11, Sarah Michelle Geller At no. 10, Alyson Hannigan!!! Nuff said :-) Oh, you bastards. You utter, utter, utter bastards. I'm going to have to actually *buy*, and furthermore be seen non-dead with, a copy of FHM now. London PM, you are sick, twisted and evil people. The thing comes in a bloody big cardboard box ffs! Makes checking it out a real pain. If you're getting it for the piccies, I would suggest you don't bother. Whilst SMG gets a full page, the picture of Miss Hannigan is small and a reprint of one of the ones from the photo shoot she did for FHM last year. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: Enough!
On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 10:41:03PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 08:59:32PM +0100, Martin Ling wrote: On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 05:43:52PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: nokia 9210 Which is still, AFAIK, unobtainium. I know someone who knows someone who has a test model - I'll prod on programmability. Greg has (had?) one to play with. It is programmable. Had is the correct tense, seeing as Mr McCarroll is currently resting between engagements. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: Long Dark Teatime of the Soul
On Sat, May 12, 2001 at 11:56:48AM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1326000/1326657.stm Unfortunately I got the phone call at 7:10 this morning :-( Definitely a strange day. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: Monitors
On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:22:04PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: How many things do you have on top of your monitor? -Dom Zero but then things don't really sit too well on the powerbook's lcd or on the 15 lcd I've got :-) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: Buffy musings ...
On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 06:34:18PM +0100, Dean wrote: PS Do we have any news on the YAPC::Europe talks that were recorded? The video tapes are with a friend of Jo's being encoded. However they've been in that state for a while :-) so maybe it's time to check their status. I'll report back. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: [OT] Flecktones in London next month
On Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 08:50:52AM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote: My favourite band in the whole world, Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, plays in London. I urge you to see them. It's an unholy blend of jazz, rock, and bluegrass. They have *the* best electric bass player in the entire world, *the* best banjo player, and the best whatever that thing that makes drum sounds is 'cos it sure isn't a drum kit player. http://www.flecktones.com/dates.html 5/1/2001 Dingwalls London, England 5/2/2001 Pizza Express London, England I can now confirm this is at The Pizzaexpress Jazz Club, 10 Dean Street, Soho, London W1 - Reservations: 020 7439 8722 (the new listings arrived this morning!). Of course, this being the evening the tube strike starts, getting there and back could be fun. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: OS X MySQL
On Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 09:09:21PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: How many people here use OS X? Develop for it? (Even vaguely). Recommend any small-ish clued in lists to join? The omnigroup ones are too huge. If anyone's interested, I'll host the list if nothing's out there. (I just bought a cool(ish) domain for it too, OSXphiles.com :-) Yes, I'm using it (again :-) ), not developing for it though. Haven't found any good lists, I hang out on the London Macintosh User Group lists which has a few clueful people on it. A dedicated OSX list might be a good idea. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: require Module; and filehandles
On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:31:38PM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: Jonathan Stowe wrote: And hide the test failures if you are running on SCO OpenServer or Unixware (see p5p passim) :) Does anyone still run SCO? Thought they'd all died. Well the last place I worked that ran OpenSewer did get closed down, though the fact it was running SCO wasn't a factor in it's demise :-) I know that Virgin Cosmetics run SCO (they run the same software we did) and I suspect there are many more pyramid selling^W^Wdirect marketing companies doing the same. So not all dead yet. Heck I even list OpenSewer amongst the products I'll work with. well somebody has too :-) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: [OT] Flecktones in London next month
On Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 04:54:14PM +0100, Paul Mison wrote: On 20/04/2001 at 16:47 +0100, Jonathan Stowe wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Nathan Torkington wrote: 5/2/2001 Pizza Express London, England Which Pizza Express ? As far as I know the only one that does live jazz is the one on Dean Street. Ummm not any more :-) 23 Bruton Place and 99 High Holborn both do jazz now. Unfortunately the listing I have only covers March and April so I can't check which one they are at. Now somewhere we have complimentary tickets to the Jazz Club (one perk of membership of their club), maybe this would be a good time to use them. Neil.
Re: Beginners Guide
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:33:59PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:06:02PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: hard to say [BBC channels] are normally given free if you subscribe to one premier channel If your telly has a built-in digital decoder, then the BBC channels will be free, and you won't need cable or a satellite dish. IANABBCE and IANADTVE but possibly not by the time the whole UK has gone digital Don't be suprised if by then the abolishment of the licence fee hasn't been announced and that the BBC hasn't announced subscription charges for it's services. Better that than the Beeb starts carrying ads. The BBC are definitely working towards the licence fee being withdrawn at some point by some government (hence all the curfuffle over ads on bbc.com), so alternative forms of financing will need to be sort. The above is of course conjecture on my part (I'm not Greg Dyke) but is based on knowledge gained during the BBC's recent acquisition of certain assets of a certain dot.com. :-) How this would work with radio I have no idea. Neil.
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:20:51PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote: At 22:13 18/04/2001, Jonathan Stowe wrote: On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Dave Cross wrote: At 21:39 18/04/2001, David Cantrell wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:30:56PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4453 JS! stop it i'm replying! LOL at Greg's post. Greg++ You've upset them now : http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4473 I dunno. You try to do a nice thing for people Some of the most fun on the board can be found by reading member's personal profiles: bk:http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=bk Chris: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=chris One does have to wonder about someone called [EMAIL PROTECTED] :-) Kinda say's it all Neil.
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 10:20:51PM +0100, Dave Cross wrote: I dunno. You try to do a nice thing for people Some of the most fun on the board can be found by reading member's personal profiles: bk:http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=bk Chris: http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?profile=chris And interestingly they both have websites hosted on virtualave.net u (Okay I was bored and followed the links) Neil.
Re: The Natives are Revolting
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:03:20AM +0200, Marcel Grunauer wrote: (Apologies if this comes through as HTML mail - i'm trying to get mail set up on OS X, but can't get nmh to work, so I'm using OS X's Mail at the moment. Will hack tools in Perl, though.) Use Mutt :-) You'll have to re-compile ncurses (the port is b0rked :-( ), but it works lovely. Neil.
Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-04-09
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 01:17:37PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: From: Leon Brocard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:00 PM The social meeting last week was a lot of fun, if a little crazy. However, we really need to start organising the meetings (hey, even Lonix is more organised!), as it was too loud and crowded: Not sure I like the idea of 'organised' social meetings. Sounds a bit too 'SPUG' to me. However, I'm quite happy to listen to any alternative opinions. SPUG don't have organised social meetings, every meeting is a technical meeting. I think what Leon was refering to, was getting organised of finding a good reliable venue. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: Wavelan
On Mon, Apr 02, 2001 at 07:29:56PM +, Robin Szemeti wrote: my current plan of attack is probably 2 lucent/orinoco wavelan 128/RC4 cards .. one in the laptop .. one in the border router machine on an ISA adaptor .. one guy I spoke to reckoned it would work .. another reckoned I was an idjut (well we knew _that_ already ..) and you had to have a 'access point' not just two wavelan cards .. dunno which to believe as half the access points just have a wavelan card in them anyway ... I do know that they are piss expensive over here .. might wait till I go to the states ... Better late than never, check out http://www.live.com/wireless/unix-base-station.html which looks like exactly what you want to achieve. Got this link from the Bay Area Wireless User Group pages (http://www.bawug.org) which also look like quite a cool resource. The perl script to do stuff with wireless scanning and GPS had me salivating :-) Time to buy an eTrek I think. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: Wavelan
On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 02:36:31PM +0100, Andrew Bowman wrote: From: Neil Ford [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] The perl script to do stuff with wireless scanning and GPS had me salivating :-) Time to buy an eTrek I think. Where was GPS mentioned? I had a good hunt round (by myself and with the assistance of the Altavista host: search parameter) but couldn't find it. Thanks, Andrew. It's in the mailing list archive; http://lists.bawug.org/pipermail/wireless/2001-April/000679.html This link was also in last weeks NTK. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: Torvalds not impressed with OS X
On Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 08:22:39AM +, Robin Szemeti wrote: On Sat, 07 Apr 2001, you wrote: On Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 08:30:07AM +0100, Rob Partington wrote: I mostly like MacOS X, but it is way too resource hungry. I shouldn't need 64M to run a GUI and Unix comfortably, that's just crap. It's not just *any* GUI though, it's a GUI that does genie-in-a-bottle minimise/restore! Oh yes! hmm .. a bit too windows 98 for me I'm afraid .. Oi! Watch it! That's grounds for a kicking almost :-) personally the ultimate task of any minimise/restore function should be to get a window on or off the dispaly as fast as possible ... slowly attempting some graphical wizardry whilst chewing up CPU resources its not one of the things I lust after .. but YMMV :) It should be pointed out that a lot, if not all, of Mac OS X's graphical wizardry can be turned off, although admittedly Apple haven't necessarily included the tools to do so by default. But then as I keep saying, Mac OS X is a consumer OS especially to idi^H^H^Hmummies and daddies! The slow-mo genie effect whlst playing a quicktime movie (fast processors only need apply!) is a nice demonstration feature. At consumer evens it gets lots of ooohs and ahhhs. It however in't something that most same people would use day to day. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limites [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: Technical Meeting - 19th April
On Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 04:09:14PM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: If anyone doesn't know (or has forgotten), there will be a technical meeting on Thursday 19th April. It will be at State 51[1] and we'll start at about 7pm. Details on how to get to State 51 will appear on the web site... er... soon. Ummm forewarned is forearmed Nat and I might not be able to make this which means getting hold of the projector might be a problem :-( If someone wants to pop down to West Sussex to collect it they are more than welcome, unfortunately I'm not travelling into London as much as I was. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: Torvalds not impressed with OS X
On Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 05:03:35PM -0400, Chris Devers wrote: [snip] Luckily, Apple included a way to change the genie effect, but chose not to put it into a GUI tool at this time. I'm sure someone will have one written within a week, but for now, here's how you do it. Open a terminal session (the Terminal [snip] Look for TinkerTool, GUI front-end not only to do this but to allow you to show the hidden directories in the Finder, put the Trash on the desktop, change the transprancy of Terminal windows and a whole lot more. Look on VersionTracker (http://www.versiontracker.com) or Stepwise (http://www.stepwise.com) for the latest version. Neil -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.yacsc.com
Re: the 2nd best london.pm meeting of all time
On Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 10:00:17AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: I nominate last night as the 2nd best social meeting of all time, just behind the TVR train and toilet seat nicking of a previous meeting. The stolen wine by the thames at 1am was a particularly nice feature. Not wishing to be a sourpuss but personally last night was one of the worst social meetings ever. The noise level, being unable to hear people, the lack of space, unavailability of food, etc. made it one of the least pleasent venues we've used. I wasn't at all unhappy about leaving early. However I suspect I'm in the minority. I can imagine The Anchor is a great pub in the summer when you can sit out by the river. Neil.
Re: Appalling vampire joke
On Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 01:51:45PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: What the hell, it's no less than you deserve... Paul One day Dracula is walking down the street when suddenly 10 tons of smoked salmon sandwiches, sausage rolls, vol-au-vents, chicken wings, chipolatas, tomato salad, pizza slices and crisps descend on him from a great height and knock him to the ground. "Oh no!" he gasps with his dying breath "It's Buffet the Vampire Slayer!" Boom boom ! On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, Simon Wistow wrote: One day Dracula is walking down the street when suddenly 10 tons of smoked salmon sandwiches, bread rolls, pitted olives, chicken wings, chipolatas, tomato salad, pizza slices and crisps descends on him from a great height and knocks him to the ground. "Oh no!" he gasps with his dying breath "It's Buffet the Vampire Slayer." Sometimes archiving london-pm has it's benefits. :-) Neil.
Re: sub BEGIN {}
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 11:06:14AM +0100, Martin Ling wrote: On Tue, Apr 03, 2001 at 10:28:24PM +0100, Dean S Wilson wrote: Stick with drunks, it'll save time. And the meetings on Thursday so you announced yourself just in time! ;) I'm not sure I'll be able to make it though - I've got things to prepare for this talk at GLLUG on Saturday. Details? Location? URL? Neil. (who proabably ought to stay home this weekend, but. )
Re: Crazy Idea
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 11:53:09AM +0100, Simon Wilcox wrote: At 11:33 04/04/2001 +0100, Chris Heathcote wrote: on 4/4/01 11:27 am, Simon Wilcox wrote: c. (who also used to cut live mains cables with secateurs, for fun) Which reminds me of the time someone shorted out a mains socket with a paper clip "to see what happened". Scared the hell out of the teacher :-) Ahh, the old days. Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.. Or the case of taking the wire from inside a scalextric hand controller, attaching on end to a sucker, affixing that to one side of a door frame, stretching across to make a trip wire and being short of something to anchor it with the other side, wrapping the remaining wire around the pins of a mains plug and pluging it in! Apparantly I was discovered on the other side of the room imbeded in a wardrobe. :-) Neil. (who knows better now)
Mail archiving scripts?
Following on from recent topics, can anyone point me at any scripts to help with breaking up mailbox files? I did have one, but that used the From field which unfortunately get's munged if you use Formail/Procmail to reprosses a mailbox. Ideally I'm looking for something that uses the Date: field and would take as input a month and year, e.g.: March 2001, a mailbox, e.g.: london-pm and create a new file of the mails matching those criteria, suitably named, say london-pm.2001.03. Pointers to something suitable are fine but please bear in mind my perl is rudimentary... okay it's non-existent :-) Neil.
Reminder! [lmug-talk] Apple comes to town !
- Forwarded message from Neil Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] - For those that might be interested. Realised the date is missing from the email, it's tonight btw! Neil. To: lmug-talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Michael Corgan Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:38:58 + Subject: [lmug-talk] Apple comes to town ! You might like to get in on the OS X act with LMUG. Apple UK are sending their man to our April Forum meeting, at the Crown and Two Chairmen in Dean Street W1. Not only will he be demoing OS X, but we understand that a copy will be given by Apple as a raffle prize ! So it will be well worth the 3 that non-members have to pay to get in ! Just be sure to be early if you don't want to stand all the evening. Any more details that are required can be had via the LMUG web site. -- Michael Corgan Chairman London Macintosh User Group See us on www.lmug.org.uk -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED] /x-flowed - End forwarded message -
Re: Mac OS X (was Re: mmm ... toys ..)
On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 10:35:25AM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote: On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 08:05:18AM +0100, Neil Ford wrote: On Tue, Mar 27, 2001 at 04:11:13PM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote: I don't suppose anyone else chose 'root' as their primary account name during install? I did and am wondering if this is why my OS X installation is totally hosed useless: I can't open folders in my (own!) Home (Insufficient That would be it. Root on Mac OS X is a special user that by default isn't enabled and doesn't have a home directory, etc. You probably need to re-install and choose a normal user name. This user will What, how about bin? Or mail? Or daemon? :-) OS X really shouldn't've let me use a system name. Doh! Remember, OS X is an operating system especially designed for idi^H^H^Hmummies and daddies.[1] They are just going to put in their name. And why do you think /bin is hidden in the finder? It would be the first thing to go in the trash if it wasn't. Neil. [1] obviously plagariesed reference. Anyone? ;-) -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mac OS X (was Re: mmm ... toys ..)
On Tue, Mar 27, 2001 at 11:41:17AM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mysql has been ported to OSX. You can find it at http://www-u.life.uiuc.edu/~mwvaugh/MacOSX/Packages/ I was playing with it for a while and it seems fairly stable. The only real problem I had was installing DBD::mysql which couldn't find libraries etc. Finally I found a guide at http://invictus.usask.ca/macosx/ and everything went hunkdory. Well that's my first post out the way, I'm going to go and hide again now. Steve You should be ashamed sir, a first post that was vaguely on topic and helpful into the bargain. What are things coming too :-) Thanks for the info btw - most useful. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Mac OS X (was Re: mmm ... toys ..)
On Tue, Mar 27, 2001 at 04:11:13PM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote: I don't suppose anyone else chose 'root' as their primary account name during install? I did and am wondering if this is why my OS X installation is totally hosed useless: I can't open folders in my (own!) Home (Insufficient That would be it. Root on Mac OS X is a special user that by default isn't enabled and doesn't have a home directory, etc. You probably need to re-install and choose a normal user name. This user will be set up as an administrator and have pretty good access rights. For easy access you can do 'sudo tcsh' or if you want to enable root via Applications|Utilities|NetInfo - it's a menu option. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company Limited [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fwd: [lmug-talk] Apple comes to town !
For those that might be interested. To: lmug-talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Michael Corgan Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:38:58 + Subject: [lmug-talk] Apple comes to town ! You might like to get in on the OS X act with LMUG. Apple UK are sending their man to our April Forum meeting, at the Crown and Two Chairmen in Dean Street W1. Not only will he be demoing OS X, but we understand that a copy will be given by Apple as a raffle prize ! So it will be well worth the 3 that non-members have to pay to get in ! Just be sure to be early if you don't want to stand all the evening. Any more details that are required can be had via the LMUG web site. -- Michael Corgan Chairman London Macintosh User Group See us on www.lmug.org.uk -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New Perl Stuff From O'Reilly
Well, sort of. It's a repacking of some existing stuff - a second edition of the Perl CD Bookshelf http://www.ora.com/catalog/perlcdbs2/ Looks like the contents of the new edition is: * Programming Perl, 3rd Edition * Perl for System Administration * Perl in a Nutshell * Perl Cookbook * Advanced Perl Programming Compare to the old edition which had: * Perl in a Nutshell * Programming Perl, 2nd Edition * Perl Cookbook * Advanced Perl Programming * Learning Perl * Learning Perl on Win32 Systems What would _you_ have included? Dave... As a Perl novice I'd have to say the old version looks much better. Just replacing Programming Perl would have been enough. If anyone does decide to 'upgrade' I'd be interested it taking their old copy off their hands. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fwd: [lmug-talk] Drool time!
Thought this might be of interest to some. Neil. To: "lmug talk yahoogroups.com" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 04:42:43 -0800 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [lmug-talk] Drool time! Being sick, I should be asleep but I couldn't so I got up and did a little computer work. Just a short while ago, I finished installing OS X (Golden Master) on my new PowerBook G4. From the time I started the installation process until the "Finder" appeared was exactly 20 minutes. All you do is click a few buttons, type in some answers to questions and sit back while the installer does its thing. VERY painless and no more difficult to install than was OS 8 or 9. As a matter of fact, easier. If you installed the Public Beta, I suggest that you reformat the drive and install OS 9.1 (which will come with OS X when it's released). Apple doesn't require removing the PB, but it's a safe bet that with TWO new OSes on the drive, it's a good idea. You'll be surprised at how complete OS X is in spite of being incomplete (some components such as DVD play didn't make the final release but are promised in an update which should arrive shortly after the ship date). There are a lot of utilities with which you're familiar (Disk First Aid and Drive Setup combined into Drive Utility) but with new looks and capabilities, as well as some new ones which you used to get from third-party developers (Grab for screen captures, Preview for viewing PDF and other file types). There are also many new applications which are "required" for OS X's plumbing but which the average user isn't "required" to use. Out of the box, OS X will recognize that it's connected to a DHCP server if you're on a LAN or have a DSL setup. It has built-in drivers for FireWire and USB drives (although you cannot install OS X to them) and Apple, Epson and Hewlett Packard printers. Some one said that they hooked up a Brother All-in-One and OS X recognized it. Protected memory is one of the most important new features. Having Internet Explorer 5.1 Preview Edition (included on the CD) crash (oh, it will!) and not have to worry about it (just restart it) is worth the price of admission. I'm currently typing this in Microsoft Entourage 2001 which is running in the Classic environment. I won't go into the differences between OS 9 and Classic (it will be covered by others) but I don't notice any difference in speed for most tasks under either environment. Switching between the two is seamless and transparent (if set up properly). Contrary to the pre-Public Beta fears, there is almost nothing to worry about with OS X. Once the top apps are available in Carbon form, this should be a killer product for Apple. I don't know if it will ever gain the huge market share that Apple hopes for, but it should, ultimately, at least outsell Linux. Once OS X Server is released (shortly after March 24, 2001), Apple will finally have an Enterprise product line. Unfortunately, it still doesn't have an Enterprise strategy! Bruce -- Neil C. Ford Managing Director, Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Overheard on IRC
ALL YOUR DCONWAY ARE BELONG TO US yet another t-shirt idea methinks Simon [realising in the process that no-one ever suggested a t-shirt that said 'yet another t-shirt'] Do it Do it now!! :-) Neil. (2 x as big as you can get please) -- Neil C. Ford Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Overheard on IRC
On or about Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 10:46:18AM +, Simon Wistow typed: yet another t-shirt idea methinks any(@londonpm) R One wonders if we should just use some of Simon's designs to pay for the camel? Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Greetings
Hello All , I've just moved to London from Bath and thought i should make contact with the illustrious London.pm , so here I am . Is there an FAQ for this mailing list ? I couldn't see one on the page . Toodle-pip Amias London.pm FAQ Question: Why? Answer: Because Dave Told Us To Question: Anything else? Answer: http://london.pm.org :-) Meil. -- Neil C. Ford Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
T-shirts for Monday
This isn't a question about any possible plans to produce a new tshirt design for Monday :-) but rather Are we going to try and get as many PIMB tshirts in the audiance for Monday? We could even get a photo with Damian? Thoughts? Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: T-shirts for Monday
Neil Ford wrote: This isn't a question about any possible plans to produce a new tshirt design for Monday :-) but rather Place said they couldn't do it in time. That doesn't rule out Prontaprint though :) Oh well, some other time maybe (for YAPC::Europe?). Are we going to try and get as many PIMB tshirts in the audiance for Monday? We could even get a photo with Damian? I'll bring the 8 or so I have left as well. Excellent. We should probably present one to Damian. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fwd: [lmug-talk] Macworld Tokyo keynote at PC World
For any macites who might be interested. Neil. From: Carmelo Manganaro [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mailing-List: list [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:58:55 + Subject: [lmug-talk] Macworld Tokyo keynote at PC World Apple CEO, Steve Job's keynote speech from Macworld Tokyo will be streamed live via satellite at PC World in Croydon on February 21, according to Apple. The store opens to customers at 11:30pm, the live link starts at 1:00am, and Jobs will deliver his speech shortly after this. PC World will close at 3am. Japanese food, wine and beer will be available in honour of the Tokyo event. There will be hands-on demonstrations and one-off special Mac deals available during the night. Macworld Tokyo is one of four major Apple events held around the world each year. Heidi Swain, category marketing manager for PC's at PC World, said: "This event demonstrates PC World's commitment to bringing the latest technology and products to the consumer first." So who's coming? Carmelo -- The day Microsoft makes a product that DOESN'T suck will be the day they make a vacuum cleaner. Do you know that there is a London Macintosh User Group in London? Point your Browser at: http://www.lmug.org.uk -- Neil C. Ford Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Conway Lecture
(please circulate this to any interested parties) Forwarded to the UK FreeBSD User Group and the Brighton Linux User Group. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Conway Lecture
Neil Ford wrote: (please circulate this to any interested parties) Forwarded to the UK FreeBSD User Group and the Brighton Linux User Group. Brighton LUG - Where ? http://www.brighton.lug.org.uk It's a fairly dorment group but it does exist. The web page has details on how to join the mailing list. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Technical Meeting 22nd Feb
I'm assuming that Matt won't want to talk for the _whole_ evening :) So anyone got a short talk they want to give as a support act? Cheers, Dave... Related question: What kit are we going to need for this? (projector, etc.). Also what kit are we going to need for Damian's talk? (projector, PA, wireless microphones?) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Technical Meeting 22nd Feb
At Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:59:55 +, Neil Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm assuming that Matt won't want to talk for the _whole_ evening :) So anyone got a short talk they want to give as a support act? Cheers, Dave... Related question: What kit are we going to need for this? (projector, etc.). I assume we'll need the usual. Projecter, Screen (or white wall!), net connectivity. Can someone at Torrington please confirm which of that list they can supply. Thanks. Also what kit are we going to need for Damian's talk? (projector, PA, wireless microphones?) I'll be able to answer that better after I've visited tomorrow. I strongly suspect that we'll be asking to borrow you prjector again tho' Neil. Shall I come along tomorrow? Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Technical Meeting 22nd Feb
At Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:25:34 +, Matthew Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What kit are we going to need for this? (projector, etc.). I assume we'll need the usual. Projecter, Screen (or white wall!), net connectivity. Can someone at Torrington please confirm which of that list they can supply. Thanks. Sorry, been busy all morning. We can supply either a screen or a white wall, not sure which yet but we will supply one or the other. So if somebody else can supply the projector that would be good. Thanks Matt. I guess we'll impose on Neil for his projector again, if that's ok :) No probs projector booked. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Technical Meeting 22nd Feb
At 21:04 12/02/2001, Neil Ford wrote: On Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 10:59:55AM +, Neil Ford wrote: Also what kit are we going to need for Damian's talk? (projector, PA, wireless microphones?) FWIW, damian has (IIRC) requested a vga connection for ny. (will try to remember to confirm this at some point...) Your best bet is to ask him. That's what we did. :-) I'll get Mr Cross to check then. Some of teh requirements are going to depend on the size of room we get. Something the size of the cinemas at the ICA and a PA and mics will almost be a necessity. The room we're looking at holds 80-100 people, so that's borderline PA territory in my book. Something to check tomorrow. I'll stand at the back and you can do the Sub::Approx lightning talk :-) And isn't the VGA connection a requirement for the projector? Or the laptop? Or something other than the room itself? I'll admit my message wasn't well written. What I meant was that if the room was titchy we wouldn't need a PA, etc. Might need a VGA extension cable regardless as the one on the projector isn't extremely long. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mailbox co-lo - honest opinions
Well it looks like I have my first serious customer and I need to find a home for a machine for them. My first instinct is to put the box in Mailbox as it'll be fairly low usage but with the recent outage to london.rhizo I'm concerned what Mailbox's record is like. I have an alternative location but they require a 1U server which is going to greatly increase the inital cost. I know a number of people on here have boxes at Mailbox, so I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts. On the list or by private email is fine. Thanks in advance. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford Yet Another Computer Solutions Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fwd: SPUG: YAPC::Europe is 8/2-4 in Amsterdam
X-Authentication-Warning: happyfunball.pm.org: mjordomo set sender
to [EMAIL PROTECTED] using -f
X-Sent: 8 Feb 2001 17:32:34 GMT
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:32:25 -0800
From: Tim Maher/CONSULTIX [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: SPUG: YAPC::Europe is 8/2-4 in Amsterdam
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SPUGsters,
They've finally announced the details of YAPC Europe, at
http://www.yapc.org/Europe, and there are flights from Seattle
to Amsterdam for as little as $408 today, according to my Yahoo
fare-watching service!
The "Call for Participation" is attached. See you there!
-Tim
--
**
| Dr. Tim Maher, CEO, Consultix (206) 781-UNIX/8649; ask for FAX# |
| Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Web: http://www.consultix-inc.com |
| TIM MAHER: Unix/Perl DAMIAN CONWAY: Adv. Perl COLIN MEYER: Perl/DBI |
| 12 Int Perl; 20 Data Munging; 22 Adv OO-Perl; 3/20 Perl; 3/26: Linux |
**
* CALL FOR PARTICIPATION **
European
Yet Another Perl Conference
YAPC 2001
http://www.yapc.org/Europe/
Thursday-Saturday, August 2-4, 2001
at the
Hogeschool Holland
Amsterdam, the Netherlands
** Abstract submission deadline: June 1, 2001 **
Yet Another Perl Conference (YAPC) is an inexpensive ( 100 EURO) Perl
users and developers conference, with a mix of tutorials and
technical talks. The conference is set in Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
YAPC began as a grassroots users conference, from discussions
among Perl Mongers, and has grown from there. We would like
to invite you to join us for three days of Perl, people, and
demonstrations, at a price that shouldn't hurt your wallet.
There will be a limit of around 500 people for the conference.
A number of members of the Perl community are contributing to this
event.
Look at the main web page for more details --
http://www.yapc.org/Europe
*** CALL FOR PAPERS ***
Potential presenters should submit a 200-300 word abstract to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
in plain ASCII text or HTML by June 1st for consideration.
We would like your materials to be available online, but
that is not required. If you have materials to include in
the proceedings, or course notes, please let us know of your
requirements in the abstract. If you have any special
presentation needs, please include them also.
The conference theme will be Security, so a portion of the the
talks will be about that subject in some way. So if you have some
knowledge of Perl related security issues, or use Perl in security
related areas, you're more then welcome to share this with fellow
Perl users at the conferece.
Suggestions :
* writing secure Perl CGI programs
* security bloopers
* cryptography techniques
* cryptography applications
* security issues in past and coming versions of perl
* How you use Perl to enhance security of your network or website
* Modules useful in security
* Whatever you find interesting that's Perl- and security related
A part of the time will be available for other Perl related subjects.
Suggestions for subjects:
* Groupware, Agents, and Bots
* Perl in the world of Windows
* MacPerl
* Perl for Speech and Language
* Text and Document Processing
* Machine Learning in Perl
* HTML, XML, and Markup Languages
* CGI and Web programming in Perl
* Internet Programming
* Database Interaction and Access with Perl
* Scientific Computing (e.g. with PDL)
* Practical Perl Programming
* Module guts and usage on any particular Module.
* Tutorials of all stripes: Modules, Objects, CPAN
* Visionary or position papers on Perl, the past,
the present, and the future
* Anything cool :)
We have the following time slots in our schedule, so your
contribution could have one of the following durations:
180 minute tutorials
90 minute talks
40 minute talks
25 minute talks
lightning talks (5 minutes)
Conference fees will be waived for presenters at yapc
(lightning talks excepted), so another way to reduce your
costs is to give a good talk on something you're excited about.
We are looking for sponsors. Please contact Liz and Eric
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) for information about how you can help
support YAPC Europe. Much of the necessary funding for YAPC
comes from the generous donations of our sponsors.
YAPC Europe 2001 **http://www.yapc.org/Europe/ ***
* CALL FOR PARTICIPATION **
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
POST TO: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PROBLEMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscriptions;
Re: previous jobs
so who else has had cool non-IT jobs in the past? Operations Manager, Wizards of the Coast Limited next best thing to being a crack dealer :-) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: irc problems
I can't get onto any of rhizomatic.net. Is anyone else having problems? Michael we're all there fine in actuall fact as I type this you've just appeared :-) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: Mark Thomas
At Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:57:11 +, Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: (Even more off-topic than usual) I've got four tickets for the filming of the Mark Thomas Product this Sunday. It's filmed in the pub at the end of my road, but I don't think I'll be around in time to go. You'd need to be in the pub for about 7:15pm to get decent seats, but the filming doesn't actually start until 9pm. I'll have them with me tonight if anyone wants to claim them. /me wants two - i assume the usual method of distribution applies You can have two and Red gets the other two. I'll explain how it all works tonight, but it'll be easier all round if the four of you could meet in the pub before the show. Are you sure you'll be back from Newark in time? Well I know the Audi goes (yes, it can do 140mph! :-) ) but I'm not sure it'll do that 4up and anyway those tricks are best reserved for _very_ late a night. As it is I was assuming we'd be working some of Sunday as well. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Every OS Sucks
Check out the latest from Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie (the people who bought you the Internet Helpdesk sketch). http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/37/three_dead_trolls_in_a_bag.html?lang=eng Most entertaining. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
RE: Another Template Toolkit Q
Hang on, isn't there an actual Template Toolkit mailing list. -- Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is? Well I know when I'm not wanted then :-) Mark k. Check http://www.tt2.org/info.html#lists for details. And it's not that you're not wanted :-) it's more that you're likely to get more authorative answers there. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Web site
Dave I know you've probably got load on at the mo, but the website still lists the February meeting as being at the PO. An update perhaps? Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: Web site
At Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:36:28 +, Neil Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave I know you've probably got load on at the mo, but the website still lists the February meeting as being at the PO. An update perhaps? Which page did you have in mind? It all looks up to date to me. Dave.. The front page on Penderel (currently down I beleive) has a little calendar, list PO as the venue. Or was I getting cached pages? Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re:
is it still 12:30 at the new world today? That does indeed seem to be the plan. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Conultancy discussion (was Re: TPC5)
* Greg Cope ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Andrew Bowman wrote: From: "Nathan Torkington" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Timing in London is hard, because there aren't very many hotels capable of supporting such an event. It's quite amazing to us, in fact, how difficult it has been to find a place to hold it in London. What sort of numbers are we talking about then? If you're prepared to consider locations a little out of central London there are lots of large hotels around Heathrow that have sizeable conference type facilities (also handy for the airport!). What about Brighton ;-) potential london clients will be put off dealing with a company not in london Seeing as this was about TPC, interesting subject change :-) The obvious answer to this is "depends where your customers are". Being out side London works for my friend Nik, but then he's targetting customers to the south of London and along the South Coast. Customers in Central London would definitely prefer a consultancy so located. i was thinking about consultancies, and there are really two types and two types of person who want to be create each type. and those two types can be summarised as the two Steves, the question is what are people trying to do - create a Jobs or a Wozniak consultancy? Interesting question. I have both men to thank for an awful lot (the Apple II got me into computing, the mac is by far my most favourite machine) and whilst I would quite like to meet both, Woz is definitely the man I identify with most. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund
A quick reminder of something I mentioned last night. The hardware spec for penderel (our server) is starting to show its age (I don't know exactly what the specs are, but the box is at least 18 months old). There are also a number of people who have expressed an interest in joining the exclusive club of people who have accounts on the server. The suggestion is, therefore, that we set up a hardware upgrade fund to buy new bits for the server. Contributions would be set at 50 and anyone contributing would gain the same rights on the box as the origianl contributors. I'm therefore looking for a volunteer to organise this. The organiser would, of course, be given a free login on the server. Anyone fancy it? Dave... As a comparison, here's the spec of Ourshack.com (which houses Template Toolkit amongst other projects). I don't think anyone's complained about performance just yet. Pentium II 233MMX 320MB RAM (this we have upgraded) 14GB HD Box is running Apache, Roxen, MySQL and all the regular stuff (named, mail, mailman), never seems to be heavily loaded. So you might be quite surprised how little you need to add. The biggest expense may be some kind of backup device. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund
On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 02:37:24PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Personally I'd be happier if we had mirrored disks in there. I'd go for a backup system before a mirror, myself. That could be good, too... We definately need one of the two. (IMHO) Michael Well a tape drive would be easier and (for the most part) cheaper to install. For mirroring you're either going to need a raid controller or use software raid... how good is that under linux? Seeing as access to the box is not currently an issue, tape changing can be done . Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hatworm discovered
Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Piers Cawley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Big monitors on workstations are *not* rewards. They are essential tools for the job. Anything smaller than 19" is rapidly approaching too cramped for serious work. TFT monitors on workstations are rewards... 19" on the first port of the G400, a TFT on the second? Mmmm... so, when are we going to have a meeting about all this? Well seeing as I will be amongst the great unwashed from next week, anytime soon would be good. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: apologies
At Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:54:40 +, Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apologies one and all, i am not going to be able to make it tonight, today is my first day back at work after some flu like illness. i had hoped to make it tonight but currently feel like matt wrights code, OK. So we're now a speaker down. Anyone want to save the day by stepping in to give a 20 min talk - or do I have to talk about Symbol::Approx::Sub _again_? Dave... Well I have both The Matrix and MIB with me on DVD and a DVD capable powerbook.. Movie intermission anyone? Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
Roger Burton West [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On or about Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:37:27AM +, Steve Mynott typed: RH/Slackware/Debian/Solaris/FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD are all fine systems but they need to be setup by someone who knows what they are doing in the same way that Perl has to be written by clueful programmers. And competent *ix system builders/admins are about as easy to find as clueful programmers. And certifications are about as useful in finding them. Talking of which, having interviewed/seen/lunched a fair number of perlmongers recently and then offered a bunch of Java weenies, I still need a BOFH. Not just someone who can "do", but who has vision to drive things forward. Like me, only more anally retentive and will do the second 90% of any job :-) Anyone know one? Well kinda :-) The money's only OK, but the toys are great :-) I need to see thing how things pan out here and on a couple of other fronts first. Toys are always a good incentive. And on the same lines...what with all these perlmongers on the market right now, just bloody band together and start a consultancy. Quite happy to consider that, doing the sysadminy / strategy / project management type stuff can't code perl for toffee I'm afraid. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
RE:Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hatworm discovered
[snip the first bit... all great] Location A big pub in central London. Top floors: development Ground floor Pub: with comedy stand and terminal points for laptops Purleese wireless is the only way to go. :-) Basement: disco / conference room, big flat screens etc.. I've got a contact who says he can get hold of a million or so VC if this was an actually business plan, but then you have to pay them back with interest and stuff. Ok, it's all a pipedream.. but what a nice one. So who's any good at business plans... (I have a book but) Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
David Cantrell writes: Linuxbierwanderung 2001. To be held in Belgium but with a large UK contingent. Date to be confirmed within the next couple of weeks, but will almost certainly be a week somewhere between 19 Aug and 8 Sept. It would be *really* great - especially for intercontinental visitors - if your con could be immediately before or after the LBW. The Amsterdam YAPC folks have a bunch of venues they're looking at, but only some have given them specific dates they're free. The only dates they've been told about are for the week before the London OScon. I hope the L16G 2001 doesn't clash with either. As I said, though, we're REALLY worried about Europeans being on vacation and unable to attend. We don't know much about the mysterious habits of this strange and noble race, and would appreciate your guesses as to their actions: will our attendance be buggered[1] because those on the Continong will be sunning their lily-white bottoms in the south of France instead of getting lilier-white by hanging out with other open source geeks?[2] Well I know Belgium effectively closes for a month but I can't remember if it's July or August (never _ever_ have a product that you can't meet demand for only produced in one place in the world and that being Belgium! It makes for a fun life, NOT! :-) ) and Paris does effectively shut down for a couple of weeks in August (Parisians go to the coast for their hols), so there is some precedent for saying Europe effectively shuts down for August. I'm with Dave on the whole don't hold it in the UK thing, if I'm off to a conference I'd rather it was somewhere away from home. I'd have said The Netherlands but YAPC::Europe's bagged that one. Was the choice of the UK because of possible language barriers? Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:58:25 +, Tony Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 02:54:50PM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote: We're planning a London Open Source Convention. The dates we're looking hard at now are August 20-23. Are there any obvious clashes Depends on how quickly people can get back from Vancouver: http://www.geekcruises.com/home/ss_home.html Now that _could_ be a major problem. Damian, MJD and Randal are all on that cruise. all we'd need to do is hire some terrorists to take over the cruise ship and sale it across to london - of course someone should make sure we shoot the cook before the operation starts, oh and fire a couple of rounds into the birthday cake while your at it. You don't wan't to do that, it's likely to be the only female on the ship. And anyway, we'd need something to keep Randal amused on the long trip (and it would be a _long_ trip from the Pacific Northwest to Europe). Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:18:12 -, Mark Kitching [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Joe Dolce] Do any others watch those Top Ten blah programs on Ch4? I think I knew this due to watching the Top Ten Comedy records! Wow, I really must get out more. And there's me thinking that you must be an old git like me who remembers it happening :) Everyone else was, of course, correct too. But Mark was fastest. I guess this is an advantage of working somewhere where there's bugger all work going on... On that basis I should have got there first :-) "I go into the office, I don't go to work" - me, recently. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
* Jonathan Peterson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Also, as it is a modern cruise ship, we will use Grep's l33t hacking skills to gain control of all the automated systems from his Psion 5, whereupon we don't get me started on PDA's being used to ``hack'' systems, e.g. that james bond film where they use a CE device and i've seen palm pilots used - now if it was EPOC say a nice R380 (with non-standard ROM) sure, but PalmOS, CE .. nah Greg - who is easily bought Best use of a PDA does of course go to a movie that follows on from an earlier discussion, Under Seige 2 and the newton fax sending scene :-) Then there's the Psion 3 being used to detonate a bomb is a movie who's name I can't remember but it features the same Mr Segal being killed in the first 10 minutes or so. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 03:28:40PM +, Neil Ford wrote: Then there's the Psion 3 being used to detonate a bomb is a movie who's name I can't remember but it features the same Mr Segal being killed in the first 10 minutes or so. Executive Decision. That's the sucker! Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Partitioning schemes (was RE: Mailman....)
On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 10:42:34AM +, Steve Mynott wrote: "David H. Adler" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh, you're much too kind. My redhat box is disintigrating before my very eyes. root partition filled up for no reason and, thus I looked at the partition table: / /boot /home With home being the largest. What *were* they thinking when they configured this? I don't think you can really blame the distribution (which allows you to partition the disk how you want) for someone partitioning the disk wrongly. Except that the box came to me like this. I intend to rectify this in a bit by scaping red hat off with a large trowel and installing something useful, but I'm still trying to figure out why *anyone* would partition it this way... :-/ Because they were used to the BSD way of things where most stuff goes in /usr and were expecting Linux to put it all in /home. As an example, our BSD box is configured like so; Filesystem 1K-blocks UsedAvail Capacity Mounted on /dev/ad0s1a 49583354411017678%/ /dev/ad0s1f 13350937 3817961 846490231%/usr /dev/ad0s1e 19815 61701206034%/var procfs 440 100%/proc So that might be one answer. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: PIMB T-shirts
* Marcel Grunauer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Greg McCarroll writes: Apparently Amsterdam.pm are looking for a design for YAPC::Europe 2001 ;-) however, having said that, still like the # , ! , perl one ;-) that ought to be |\/| | \__/ | |______| \ / | | | | | hash bang perl | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |/\| i know, i was protecting simon's trademarks, besides this is just the sort of thing that gives perl a bad name (i'll have an XXL simon) I'd like to set up a standing order for 2 of the largest size you can do of each new design as they are produced. In actual fact thinking about it, best make that 4 of. Cheques at monthly intervals okay? Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: XML::Schema, YAPC::Europe, mod_perl, Camel Visit, !RANT!
[snip] so as far as i see it - we have the following projects to be carried out by london.pm and others ... Caml (i'll leave that typo as it might get mjd excited) Visit - David Cross Completion of account creation for initial donators, establishment of a administration committee and setting criteria for new donators - Jo + D.Cross The Mod Perl Evangelist Site - Dave Hodge.. The Final YAPC::Europe 2000 Site - me + LB + JP So you won't be needing Natalie's help with the website then? Someone perhaps ought to tell her before she does much more work trying to get the schedules together. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: Technical Meeting
On Jan 4, 10:18pm, Dave Cross wrote: As always I'm looking for volunteers to speak at the meeting. If you've got anything really cool[1] to tell us about then please let me know. Take your pick: Template Toolkit Views A new and icy cold metaphor for the Template Toolkit which makes hard things easy and defrosted things frozen solid. Assumes (but probably doesn't rely on) some TT knowledge. Camelot An experimental Web Application Framework which makes (most) other so-called "Web Application Frameworks" look like a really silly idea. Br! That's chilly. Pod::POM The POD Object Model. This makes translation of POD to other formats so simple that even your grandmother could do it, and we all know how much trouble she has working the toaster. Yowser, it's cold in here! Did someone leave the freezer door open? XML::Schema XML::Schema will rule the world! This is still in the planning / development phase, but it promises to kick bottom really hard. Create a schema to describe your data and then sit back and let the camel take over. The XML::Schema module should allow you to build schema-specific parsers, (de-)marshalling code to convert XML schema instances to/from objects, XML/SQL interfaces, and other cool stuff like that. Hey, is that frost on the keyboard? Dear Santa How to write your christmas thank-you letters using the Template Toolkit. Silly, but chilly lighting talk. A Ummm. the lot :-) Save having to swap laptops with the projector and Dave wouldn't have to time the lightening talks. Top it off with another 12 steps session from Piers and were sorted. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Fwd: SPUG: Inline 0.30 has Shipped
Thought this might be of interest to some people.
Neil.
SPUG,
Thought you guys should be the first to know. I just uploaded Inline
version 0.30 to the CPAN. (Give it a few hours to get processed.) 0.30
is a very major release. (See below)
I also posted the first edition of Inline::CPR (C Perl Run). This is the
thing I talked about at the SPUG meeting where you put a hashbang
(#!/usr/bin/cpr) at the top of your C code, and then just run it.
Sometime tonight, Neil Watkiss will also release Inline::Python (very
cool, I'm sad to admit :-) and Inline::CPP.
In addition, I am officially announcing [EMAIL PROTECTED] , the new Inline
mailing list. Send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to join.
Cheers, Brian
Here is the README notes:
--
FEATURES:
Inline version 0.30 is a major upgrade from previous verions. It
includes:
+ Integrated support for typemap files in C.
+ All the recognized types now come *only* from typemaps.
+ The default types come from the default typemap installed with core
Perl.
+ Typemaps are used to modify the Parse::RecDescent grammar for
parsing C.
+ This means you can easily use your existing typemaps.
+ Language support completely separated from base Inline code.
+ Beta supoort for C (Inline::C, included)
+ Alpha support for C++ (Inline::CPP, available separately)
+ Alpha support for Python (Inline::Python, available separately)
+ Support for 'embedding' Perl in C with my new programming language,
CPR.
(Inline::CPR, available separately) This one may warp your mind :^)
+ Simple API for adding your own language support.
+ Write your own Inline::Foo
+ Write your own implementation of Inline::C, or just modify
Inline::C::grammar.
+ Support for interpreted languages in addition to compiled ones.
+ Autodetection of new Inline language modules.
+ Much easier and more powerful configuration syntax.
+ More XS and MakeMaker features exposed for configuration (for C and
C++).
+ Flexible new syntax for specifying source code.
+ Use DATA section for AutoLoader, Inline, and POD simultaneously.
+ Support for using Inline 'with' other modules.
+ "use Inline with 'Event';" lets Event.pm pass config info to
Inline.pm.
+ Event.pm 0.80 has built in support for Inline.pm 0.30 and higher.
+ Write Event callbacks in C with extreme ease.
+ More documentation
+ perldoc Inline
+ perldoc Inline-Support
+ perldoc Inline-API
+ perldoc Inline::C
+ perldoc Inline::C-Cookbook
+ Better error messages and easier debugging.
+ Mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Other features of Inline.pm include:
= Automatically compiles your source code and caches the shared object.
= Automatically DynaLoads the shared object and binds it to Perl.
= Recompiles only when the C code changes.
= Changing the Perl code will not cause a recompile of the C code.
= Support for writing extension modules, suitable for distributing to
the CPAN.
= Support for generating and binding Inline subs at run time. bind()
= Works on all Unix and MS Windows configurations.
--
perl -le 'use Inline C=q{SV*JAxH(char*x){return newSVpvf
("Just Another %s Hacker",x);}};print JAxH+Perl'
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
POST TO: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PROBLEMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscriptions; Email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ACTION LIST EMAIL
Replace ACTION by subscribe or unsubscribe, EMAIL by your Email-address
For daily traffic, use spug-list for LIST ; for weekly, spug-list-digest
Seattle Perl Users Group (SPUG) Home Page: http://www.halcyon.com/spug/
--
Neil C. Ford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.binky.ourshack.org
